|
I decided to come up with the idea today with this thread. it came to me because I was thinking about when I was bad at ZvZ i would veto scrap station even though I was good at other match ups on scrap i found that i just didn't wanna play vs zerg so it was worth the loss.
So the idea here is their is going to be 3 polls you vote in the poll of your race. The sole propose of this thread is that if your not in the mood to play ZvT veto the maps that your most commonly going to bump into a Terran. The more I write this thread the more I think its going to get a lot of hate but I hope some people can find it handy.
I have also thought of the possibility of only having 1 vote but it only really matters what the majority of maps are vetoed
Poll: What map do you veto (terran)Scrap Station (79) 49% None (29) 18% Delta Quadrant (17) 11% Black Water gultch (11) 7% Slag Pits (11) 7% Typhon Pits (7) 4% Xel'naga Caverns (4) 3% Shattered Temple (2) 1% Metalopolis (0) 0% 160 total votes Your vote: What map do you veto (terran) (Vote): Scrap Station (Vote): Xel'naga Caverns (Vote): Black Water gultch (Vote): Delta Quadrant (Vote): Metalopolis (Vote): Slag Pits (Vote): Shattered Temple (Vote): Typhon Pits (Vote): None
Poll: What map do you veto (Protoss)Scrap Station (77) 51% Slag Pits (22) 15% Black Water gultch (15) 10% Delta Quadrant (15) 10% None (12) 8% Typhon Pits (5) 3% Xel'naga Caverns (2) 1% Shattered Temple (2) 1% Metalopolis (0) 0% 150 total votes Your vote: What map do you veto (Protoss) (Vote): Scrap Station (Vote): Xel'naga Caverns (Vote): Black Water gultch (Vote): Delta Quadrant (Vote): Metalopolis (Vote): Slag Pits (Vote): Shattered Temple (Vote): Typhon Pits (Vote): None
Poll: What map do you veto (Zerg)Black Water gultch (44) 32% Delta Quadrant (38) 28% Slag Pits (23) 17% None (14) 10% Scrap Station (12) 9% Typhon Pits (2) 1% Xel'naga Caverns (1) 1% Metalopolis (1) 1% Shattered Temple (1) 1% 136 total votes Your vote: What map do you veto (Zerg) (Vote): Scrap Station (Vote): Xel'naga Caverns (Vote): Black Water gultch (Vote): Delta Quadrant (Vote): Metalopolis (Vote): Slag Pits (Vote): Shattered Temple (Vote): Typhon Pits (Vote): None
|
I like to practice all the maps to get better at different styles of play (i am Z), its not like ladder really matters anyway and its good to have a lot of experience on all the maps.
|
(Z & P) If I only had 1, BWG is the obvious choice, but I cant imagine having to play slag pits or delta quadrant... if only there was a fourth downvote for scrap station I would be happy.
Btw, I always wondered. Doesnt the matchmaking system find players first, and then checks avaliable maps based on their downvotes? Cant imagine why on earth it would find maps before players.
|
Im not exactly sure how it works but i seemed to get a lot less zerg match-ups. Prehaps it was just me being so happy that i wasnt matched a lot.
|
It's Backwater Gulch, not Black Water. And it's Typhon peaks, not Typhon pits.
|
As a zerg player, I think Delta Quadrant is an obvious choice.
It would be interesting to have 6 polls, one for each matchup, that ask what map you would least want to play on in that matchup. For example, we may find that ZvT votes Delta Quadrant most while TvZ votes Scrap Station.
|
United States7483 Posts
I veto slag pits (protoss). I can't stand fighting terrans on this map, that siege tank cheese is just unbearable to deal with.
|
I play zerg and actually enjoy Delta Quadrant, I feel that it favours muta harass so that's a plus for me. Slag Pits is a disgusting abomination of a map, they should bring back Shakuras to replace Slag Pits imo.
|
On March 22 2011 02:00 ardonn wrote: Im not exactly sure how it works but i seemed to get a lot less zerg match-ups. Prehaps it was just me being so happy that i wasnt matched a lot. Its not like you ever get a 33% split amongst matchups. There isnt an equal amount of online players from each race at every time of the day and/or night. So thats why often you can sped days playing only against 1 race, or 2, and not meet someone from the other race. But it has nothing to do with what maps you veto.
If you dont like ZvZ on scrap station, then you could veto it, and it would be a lot less likely to come up. Though you would also have less ZvP and ZvT games on scrap station. But vetoing scrap station, or any map, wont actually make you face less zergs.
|
I simply hate Delta Quadrant. I play terran and I'm sick of it. They should rename it to Muta-Fest
|
Well i hope the post still serves some worth. Sorry about the Mistakes in the poll very silly mistakes . Seems like only zerg like scrap though.
|
Slag, Blackwater, and Delta. All the other maps range from decent to good imo.
Plat random player btw.
|
None, but I'm tempted to veto BWG because I've had it in five of my past 6 ladder 1v1s.
|
Vetoing all z maps, cauz i can't stand zvz anymore. Even though it's probably my best mu as of late, i just can't stand it. I'm also vetoing delta quadrant, because it's just impossible to deal with P and T early aggression with a fast expand except maybe if you expand on the back...
Edit : On March 22 2011 02:18 morimacil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 02:00 ardonn wrote: Im not exactly sure how it works but i seemed to get a lot less zerg match-ups. Prehaps it was just me being so happy that i wasnt matched a lot. Its not like you ever get a 33% split amongst matchups. There isnt an equal amount of online players from each race at every time of the day and/or night. So thats why often you can sped days playing only against 1 race, or 2, and not meet someone from the other race. But it has nothing to do with what maps you veto. If you dont like ZvZ on scrap station, then you could veto it, and it would be a lot less likely to come up. Though you would also have less ZvP and ZvT games on scrap station. But vetoing scrap station, or any map, wont actually make you face less zergs.
Any sources ? :/ I'm not really convinced.
|
On March 22 2011 02:37 RaiZ wrote: Vetoing all z maps, cauz i can't stand zvz anymore. Even though it's probably my best mu as of late, i just can't stand it. I'm also vetoing delta quadrant, because it's just impossible to deal with P and T early aggression with a fast expand except maybe if you expand on the back... I dunno, DQ is my favorite map for muta harrass. I have good success on that map.
|
I recently started a spreadsheet that keeps track of my wins/losses by map and opponent's race. It turned out that the only map in the pool that I had less than a 50% win rate on was Delta. I'm not sure what it is exactly about that map, but I'm fucking terrible at it. I feel like every PvP and PvT turns into a 1-base all in, there's just no way to expand reasonably. Best case scenario you take your back expansion, but then you have to worry about drops on the cliff and warp ins over the gap respectively.
So Delta is the only map that I have deselected on ladder. I feel like ladder is really just practice, and I should be getting experience on as many maps as possible, but Delta is just so bad for me that it had to be done.
Scrap Station would be a close second, just because I don't like it as a map, but Delta is the only one that I hate in almost every matchup.
|
i love seeing protoss/terran veto scrap station even though it is an unbelievably p/t favored map vs zerg (i hear its gay in pvp for 4gate) especially since both spawns now take 2 tumors to get to the bottom making Z weak to hellions from T. moreover, both t/p can wall at the bottom choke if they prefer (close to the 3rd) which, actually makes the rush distance quite short. moreover, the choke/quick rush thru the middle during the mid-lategame makes engaging nearly impossible. moreover, a p/t can take the 3rd more safely than the zerg. really, its funny. the only thing remotely zerg favored on that map is the long rush distance assuming no proxy/unconventional building placement, which simply allows a hatch first unless you early scout to worker block.
|
On March 22 2011 02:48 TrickyGilligan wrote: Delta ... there's just no way to expand reasonably. Best case scenario you take your back expansion, but then you have to worry about drops on the cliff and warp ins over the gap respectively. Granted, this is at my level (silver) but I have good luck on that map when I expand to the other mains when I am going mutaling. With good OL positioning to see drops, and regular muta harrass, you can get out ahead pretty often without having to break down any rocks.
|
I never understood why Scrap station is veoted so much. 2 base timings are so powerful, and if you get to 3 bases, the oppenents base is like 10 feet from yours.
|
Both XNC and Slag Pits cause my computer to lag. It must be some texture used on those maps that my graphics card has trouble with. I have to spend two vetos on those because the game is unplayable for me in a big battle.
|
I hate Backwater and Scrap station. Impossible to take your natural in PvZ as protoss on backwater; thus, we are almost forced into 1 base all in play, which I don't like doing very often. Scrap station is super outdated, and it is not possible to take a third and defend all your expansions in any mu as protoss imo.
|
I have Scrap, Backwater, Slag veto'd
|
i'm surprised that scrap is vetoed so much by terran, i thought it was ok for terran, maybe jinro just makes it look that way lol. i veto delta, scrap and slag as protoss.
|
Deffinetly Crap Station. PvP on that map is ALWAYS resulting in 4 gates.
|
If you play a Zerg on BWG or DQ, he's either stupid for not having it veto'd, or the natural doesn't matter to him because he's either cheesing you or roach rushing you.
|
I'm surprised about scrap station too. Large ramp and large distance from natural makes helion reactor opening effective (vs Z). Also, its easier to deny zerg his 3rd than it is in other maps. I didnt figure it warranted 70% of terrans to veto it.
|
Vetoing all z maps, cauz i can't stand zvz anymore. theres this thing on the SC2 ladder, the matchmaking system. Contrary to your belief, it was designed to match you up with someone as close as possible to your skill level, such that the match ends up with an outcome that is as close as possible to 50%. The matchmaking system does not pair players up based on what maps they vetoed, otherwise, you would have bronze players playing against masters, because they both had the same maps vetoed.
However, if you for example decide to join a custom game on delta quadrant, then yes, that is how it works there. You will be faced against someone who likes delta quadrant, thus the selection will be based on the map, and not the skill level. So there, you might end up with a masters playing against a bronze, because they both chose delta quadrant. And by queuing for a delta quadrant custom game, you significantly reduce your chances of getting ZvZ.
learn more about the matchmaking system: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1549172 http://eu.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_GB&articleId=46710 "Whenever you join the queue for a ranked match, Battle.net works to pair you with an opponent of equal skill." Notice how it says "an opponent of equal skill" and not "an opponent that vetoed the same maps you did"
|
I dont think u reduce chances on zvz at all cuz the system first chooses the player (according to mmr etc.) and only than looks at the maps vetoed and chooses a map :p There's a thread about matchmaking etc. by this excalibur u know ? It's very nice ^_^b I think he says this somewhere in the posts, about the maps and mu i mean ^o^
|
I'm surprised Zerg hate Blackwater so much. DQ is still 100x worse in my opinion.
|
I think zerg dislike Backwater because the small narrow chokes at the natural its hard to defend. Thats me personaly though. About DQ i think its all aobut positions because if he can drop your back door but his back door is far its a disadvantage.
|
I dont see why every hates on Delta I love it, great map
|
I have had Scrap Station vetoed since about a week after the game came out. I've never had a good game on it. I also now have Backwater Gulch and Slag Pits vetoed because they're terrible.
|
On March 22 2011 03:54 morimacil wrote:"Whenever you join the queue for a ranked match, Battle.net works to pair you with an opponent of equal skill."Notice how it says "an opponent of equal skill" and not "an opponent that vetoed the same maps you did"
Well, it could do both. But as has been discussed in other threads, the matchmaking system first chooses a player for you to face, then looks at downvoted maps. In other words, your probability of getting ZvZ is completely independent of the maps you downvote.
|
As a Zerg, definitely Blackwater Gulch & Delta Q are no-no's.
|
On March 22 2011 04:41 Gracksaurusrex wrote: I dont see why every hates on Delta I love it, great map
Open natural + rocks on backdoor expo + zero rush distance + abusable cliffs = zerg's worst nightmare.
|
On March 22 2011 01:58 asmo.0 wrote: (Z & P) If I only had 1, BWG is the obvious choice, but I cant imagine having to play slag pits or delta quadrant... if only there was a fourth downvote for scrap station I would be happy.
Btw, I always wondered. Doesnt the matchmaking system find players first, and then checks avaliable maps based on their downvotes? Cant imagine why on earth it would find maps before players.
Yes, it should find players first then maps. If you select from the join of maps and players, it is a much larger set to choose from as opposed to just selecting 2 players then selecting a map, which accomplishes the same thing, albeit in 2 queries.
Course, blizz could have some other elegant optimized solution that does it in one query.
|
Protoss
Scrap (wide ramp) Slag Pits (small, no 3rd in close pos; tanks) Delta Quadrant (ugly, small, cheesefest, cliff on in-base nat)
|
Delta Quadrant as Zerg, I just hate this map. You cannot defend your natural at all and even if I did not play Zerg I would probably veto it. Just a horrible map.
|
Terran here. Xel Naga because I don't like the open natural and I'm sick of it in general. Shattered temple because of the huge space in the middle. Leave the base and you have blink stalkers and collossi walking straight into your main. Typhon is also vetoed but I might change that. I just has never led to any fun games.
|
It's Typhon Peaks and Backwater Gulch I don't have any maps veto'ed down. 3515 Master Terran.
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Scrap station, DQ and Backwater Gulch for me. I'm a terran player.
|
Scrap station and Xelnaga, not because I don't like them, but because I don't particularly like dealing with protoss cheese. Not that I can't defeat it most of the time because I know where to check for it, but because most of the games I lose, I lose because of bad midgame mechanics and I'm not going to get any practice at mid game mechanics if I'm fending off cheese.
|
I don't vote down any maps. I'd probably be in master if I did based on the low win percentages I have on a couple of them. I can kind of tell which maps other races are vetoing by how often I have to play them.
Why don't I just downmod them? Meh, I don't want to be a pussy about it. It isn't like I have to play steppes or lost temple or old delta quad with cliff on your nat. None of the remaining ones deserve to be downmodded.
|
Slag, Delta, Backwater.
Obvious Zerg.
I think whoever designed slag pits had their head up their ass. Blizzard's official justification was that it was a macro map. With rush distances shorter than Steppes on close positions.
Please, take out Shakuras and put that in so I can play my macro games. /s
Delta is awful in the same manner. Unbelievable that they took out Shakuras and left that.
Backwater I don't have that much of a problem with, I just don't like the natural setup. The easy third is nice, though. I don't mind it that much, most of the time.
|
T & BlackWaterGulch. Just hate the goddamn desert tileset.
|
DQ, Scrap Station, Slag Pits
Terran here, and those are some no-brainer choices. Scrap station isn't that bad, just the one I like least of those remaining.
I've had some really awesome games on Blackwater Gulch, and I actually really like that map. Lots of bases, and they're actually possible to take. Lots of terrain to mess around with, and just in my experience I've had some very epic 30+ minute games on it.
|
I veto Scrap Station as a 3K diamond toss. I just think terran banshees, drops and zerg mutas are so strong on that map and become hard to deal with. Also, walling off vs. zerg is almost impossible before they over run you.
|
ROFL, all the Terrans vetoing Scrap Station... wow
I veto Scrap, the worst map ever made for Zerg. I would be happy if Steppes replaced it in the map pool.
|
Veto Slag Pits, DQ, Backwater Gulch as Z. All obvious choices, have been explained at depth in this thread.
Slag Pits just blows my mind. Why Blizzard took the time to design a whole bunch of new maps that are literally 95% as bad as the old ones (LT remake is fine) instead of just pulling the GSL maps into ladder is beyond me.
|
Scrap Station and BWG are both vetoed because they are terrible. I like DQ, but it's not used in tournaments any more so I've thumbed it down as well. No need to play on it in ladder if I'm not going to play on it/see it anywhere else.
|
Diamond toss: I veto DQ and Slag Pits. I suppose Scrap Station would be my third veto if I used it, but I don't want to be vetoing maps that are still regularly used in tournament play (even though I'm nowhere near good enough for tournaments where that would be relevant, it's just a weird policy I have).
|
I veto typhon peaks, can't put my finger on it, but something's not right about that map.
I'm also amazed so many other terrans have scrap vetoed, sure mutas are a pain but there's just so much potential what with the hellion openings and those rocks for the ultimate mid game push.
|
As zerg, slag pits is completely unplayable with backwater and delta having severe imbalances as well.
I think typhon peaks is bad also because of all the tight spaces and the main distances make it very hard to have an overlord in position to sack which you pretty much have to do at high level play (can't tell you how many times I arrive at cross spots to find a full wall off and no idea what's coming out, it really wants to make you pull your hair out when 2 port banshee or 6 blue flame hellions come out among other things). Obviously close position metal and shattered are terrible as well. Scrap also has an issue with tight spacing. Xel-Naga is far and away my favorite, please put gsl maps on the ladder blizzard.
|
What I'm suprized at:
-Terrans Vetoing Scrap station. It's a pretty good mech map, and pretty good for any composition, unlike many maps, vikings can excel on this map. I think terrans might not like it because it somewhat mandates slightly different play style.
-Protoss vetoing slag pits... maybe it's a TvP issue? I know terrans can siege the main from outside, and close position might have bio rush problems?
-Zerg not vetoing typhon peaks more. It's not a bad map for zerg EXCEPT for the IMO HUGE issue of narrow corridors and cliffs causing big colossus/FF/siege_tank abuse problems. I didn't give the map a chance, but I don't see how it could be easy to deal with those problems that occur in every game which are just amplified by a large factor.
My vetos as zerg are Backwater #1, Typhon Peaks #2, Delta Quadrant #3
Metalopolis, slag pits, and Shattered temple (especially shattered temple) have huge problems in close position, but that's only 33% chance, and otherwise they are rather decent maps.
On March 22 2011 05:28 Xayoz wrote: T & BlackWaterGulch. Just hate the goddamn desert tileset. That's not desert, that's like wasteland or something. There's a lot more tilesets in SC2 than SC1. Desert oasis is a desert map if that rings any bells.
|
|
|
|