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People have got mech to work up to high Masters in TvP. Who cares if it viable at pro level, 99.99% of the people reading this thread will never be pro anyway.
The more relevant question is: Does it work against an equally skilled opponent below pro level? So far everything seems to indicate this.
I know that since I switched to Marauder/Banshee into Marauder/Banshee/BC I have a much easier time against Protoss compared to when I did MMM+V/G. Suddenly it is Protoss that plays against the clock and needs to kill me before late game or be in a very bad position.
When I did MMM+V/G I really needed to outplay my opponent in order to win. If I just played 10-15% better than him I lost. With Marauder/Banshee into Marauder/Banshee/BC/Medivac/Ghost I have never lost to an opponent that played worse than me, only if they played better.
So I would even go so far to say that MMM+V/G is weak and incorrect way of playing TvP below pro level. Why force yourself to out-micro and out-multitask your opponent just to have a chance of winning instead of just going with a more solid composition. Why play against the clock when you have units combos that just rapes everything Protoss has late game.
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So because a strategy is forcing you to micro, it isn't effective outside of pro level? I hate MMMGV, yet I still do it. Why? It's the best. Insane DPS from bio.
There are many things you can do to to make yourself be on equal footing.
People need to stop looking down on builds and strategies because they require you to actually 'outplay' someone. If microing and what not, is out playing... then I guess you should change races if you don't want to 'outplay' protoss.
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The reason why mech on ladder works right now, is because it is not expected by an average protoss.
Let me give you an example:
Few months ago i was trying out mech in TvP (plat league back then), with average success. It seemed okay on ladder, giving me domething among 60% win-rate. After i played with it on a ladder for a bit, i tried some games with my protoss friend (mid or low masters). I didn't informed him what strategy i will be doing, and first few games i just did usuall MMM. After that i switched to mech and won him. Of course, i barely won, but i still won. (and it wasn't some cheese or allin i defended, i specifically asked him to play standard 1-3 gate expo). But, after playing with him a few more games, i lost, each time worse and worse.
The thing is, very little protoss knows what to do vs mech, and even less knows how to defend it properly. Playing mech style now is basically banking on a fact that your opponent doesn't know how to properly play vs it. (and by that i mean not only right unit composition, also engagments, timings and all that good stuff). I got the same "suprise" result when practicing 2 rac cloacked ghost push vs zergs. The build was crap, but most zergs just didn't expect it.
Some might say that good protoss would know how to react to mech. Well, every protoss knows it, they just don't have experience in fighting it, there is no "builds" that counters mech as protoss. This is the main difference, and why i stopped playing with mech in TvP, and kept practicing my bio. Because if protoss ecnounters bio 80% of times in TvP and still loses, this is definetly better than mech, even tho it can be unstable sometimes.
When there will be a protoss bulid vs a terran mech build, i will swaitch back to mech, but for now i will drop my marines like mad :p
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Friend of mine showed me how to mech TvP yesterday. I worked ok, even though I didn't have a set-build order. Mech needs to be explored more as a transition.
Edit: I wanted to point out opening with bio and transtioing into mech is a much more "standard" (as in versatile) strategy for meching TvP. The build I was shown yesterday ( I'm plat but I was shown by two rank 1 masters players) is opening with a small amount of bio (2 or 3 rax) just to get a good marine count up, maybe even a few marauders, and then teching to mech. There are several variations (banshee inclusion, strike cannon) but the idea I got is to maintain ur rax for scouting/marine drops. You don't have to sacrifice hellions to mineral lines but can actually keep them to stop strats with mass zealots. BFH are actually amazing against zealots, banshees are great against immortals that try and annhilate ur tanks, if their immortal production a certain number of tanks can beat immortals, and with mech u have the armor to withstand the AOE of protoss.
I feel like I'm convinced MMM isn't the only option TvP because protoss have figured out they can FE against terrans and get thier deathball much quicker.
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On March 15 2012 07:16 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 06:53 halfies wrote:On March 15 2012 06:09 ZjiublingZ wrote:On March 15 2012 05:41 itsMAHVELbaybee wrote:On March 15 2012 05:13 Lyyna wrote:
Contribute something or gtfo, this thread is called "How to Mech in TvP", not "Can you" or "Stories of some mid-master players struggles with Mech TvP"
Most people don't get that . . . they keep saying 'mech TvP don't work' because they randomly tried one mech game without any idea on the build order or army composition . . . They don't even bother watching replays in most cases. This is sad , because mech is clearly an under explored strategy, and some players are already able to get good results with it (lots of people high master/Low gm like me, but even better players like Illusion) People will say UNEXPLORED cause they don't see people using it. Avilo pretty much touches on the fact that players HAVE tried it and tried to explore possibilities. However, each new patch, nerfed TvP mech. Seige tank nerf, BFH nerf, Thor buff/re-nerf, EMP nerf, all affect TvP mech directly. Playing TvP mech is extremely difficult and Protoss counters to mech are extremely easy to execute. Any stargate tech out for the Protoss forces vikings(useless supply) and thors. If you guess wrong(mis-scan) against their composition, you get steam rolled. To quote Avilo: "it's out of the players hands'." EDIT: I've tried mech since release and even re-explored it after Day9 did a daily on it. There's just zero flexibility and its incredibly unforgiving in a matchup that already favors Protoss lategame deathball style. I would strongly discourage any beginner players to even think about meching in the matchup. You waste tons of time and don't really learn much of anything in terms of understanding the matchup. Once again, the thread isn't "Can you Mech in TvP", it is "How to Mech in TvP". If you have nothing to offer in terms of how to use Mech in TvP, then don't comment in this thread. It's really that simply. Goodbye. On a more positive note, does anyone have any good leads on timings to hit against certain Protoss compositions? We know of a few solid 2 base timings with Thors, what about 3 base timings with Ghosts or 1/1 Battlecruisers? telling people not to post unless they have something to add, and then not adding anything yourself -.-. gg bro, gg ofc it is possible to win using mech, but that doesnt mean its a sensible plan. its possible to win with PF rushes, but i dont see any threads on that. Cheeses and allins all have bad winrates, else they would be standard play, yet we see tons of guides on them in the forums. well, quite a few of the all ins that have guides posted work well. and your point about them having low winrates and still having threads is exactly applicable to this thread. mech in TvP will only really do well if your opponent plays worse than you. thats why it isnt standard play
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well, quite a few of the all ins that have guides posted work well. and your point about them having low winrates and still having threads is exactly applicable to this thread. mech in TvP will only really do well if your opponent plays worse than you. thats why it isnt standard play
What's ur experience with TvP mech to say something like that?
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On March 15 2012 08:41 owlofhell wrote: The reason why mech on ladder works right now, is because it is not expected by an average protoss.
Let me give you an example:
Few months ago i was trying out mech in TvP (plat league back then), with average success. It seemed okay on ladder, giving me domething among 60% win-rate. After i played with it on a ladder for a bit, i tried some games with my protoss friend (mid or low masters). I didn't informed him what strategy i will be doing, and first few games i just did usuall MMM. After that i switched to mech and won him. Of course, i barely won, but i still won. (and it wasn't some cheese or allin i defended, i specifically asked him to play standard 1-3 gate expo). But, after playing with him a few more games, i lost, each time worse and worse.
The thing is, very little protoss knows what to do vs mech, and even less knows how to defend it properly. Playing mech style now is basically banking on a fact that your opponent doesn't know how to properly play vs it. (and by that i mean not only right unit composition, also engagments, timings and all that good stuff). I got the same "suprise" result when practicing 2 rac cloacked ghost push vs zergs. The build was crap, but most zergs just didn't expect it.
Some might say that good protoss would know how to react to mech. Well, every protoss knows it, they just don't have experience in fighting it, there is no "builds" that counters mech as protoss. This is the main difference, and why i stopped playing with mech in TvP, and kept practicing my bio. Because if protoss ecnounters bio 80% of times in TvP and still loses, this is definetly better than mech, even tho it can be unstable sometimes.
When there will be a protoss bulid vs a terran mech build, i will swaitch back to mech, but for now i will drop my marines like mad :p
That's not true. Playing mech with terran has to be approached the same way a standard protoss tech is run. You begin with rax units (gateway units) and continually replace them with stronger units (robo, stargate, templar tech). The problem is protoss tier 1 units are very strong on their own, so they can be retained throughout the game in smaller numbers, unlike terran tier 1. Marines are horrible against most late game compositions from protoss.
I think the answer to protoss is similiar to what QXC said about how zergs are playing now. Everyone has been mimicking Ret and Idra's macro style as zerg and they don't know how to play zerg any other way. Too many people say zerg has to be played "swarm style" when in fact there are other options that need to be explored.
TvP is the same way. We need to get out of this mindset that says MMMVG is the only comp for TvP mid-late game.
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On March 15 2012 04:57 ZjiublingZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:37 rauk wrote:On March 15 2012 03:47 XDJuicebox wrote:On March 14 2012 23:18 sushichef wrote: Have any of you TvP mech players had to deal with speed warp prisms dropping immortals on your tank line? I've never seen this mentioned as a weakness of TvP mech, and it would be scarier than marauder drops in TvT. Just build turrets and get like 3 vikings On March 14 2012 16:53 rauk wrote:On March 14 2012 16:41 XDJuicebox wrote: Here are my thoughts on mech. They are probably going to get ignored, but I'm going to post them anyways in hope that there's that one guy who actually reads it and understands what I'm writing.
Mech is sooooooooooo stupidly slow that unless you're good at base trading, you will die to any of a number of Toss's incredibly mobile harass.
The key, I feel, is in the Banshees.
On maps with an easy to take third, take it. On maps with a harder to take third...turtle on two base and go for heavy upgrade, high units before you take your third. On a safe to take third, do the opposite.
You should Turret ring your bases, and place like 1 Marine or 1 Hellion in those key chokes that Stalkers must run by in order to have access to your main. Or you could float a useless building (a BARRACKS for example) in places where Stalkers might runby to Blink in. We like the Turret rings because they kill Observers, they deter warp prisms, and by killing Observers, lessens the Immortal count, as well as the Colossus count, and these are the two things that Mech should truly fear.
If he sacs 2 Observers and manages a MASS blink into your base, a high number of Banshees is the key to dealing with this. Bring only a small chunk of your army to deal with it. But that I mean like half your Hellions, and like 3-5 tanks (assuming you have 20+ and they have like 30 Stalkers). You also need like 3 vikings. When dealing with the Stalkers, you have to accept that you're going to lose some things...just make sure that it's not armories, supply depots, or factories. Addons - doesn't really hurt mech. SCVs don't really hurt mech. In fact, we kind of want to get rid of them...
To deal with the Blink Stalkers, you scan and snipe the Observers, then cloak all of your Banshees. Good luck dealing with that. Warp prisms should theoretically be useless if your Turret rings are placed right. I might even add a sensor tower in addition to the turrets; though redundant, if there are any holes, you can preemptively send Vikings.
The way I currently play mech (should I choose to do so), is a very slow, careful, turtle-y style, which is based entirely off positioning. The key to holding off all of the gay things that Protoss can do?
Barracks.
I'm not even kidding...you build a bunch of Barracks...
If Protoss dumps a ton of money into Zealots, a Barracks wall (which is also a ton of Minerals, except 10 Barracks negates about 40 Zealots, so isn't that a good trade?) on key chokes of the map (sometimes I leave holes and stack my hellions at those holes) is great. Why not bunkers? Or supply depots?
Barracks are mobile (liftoff function), and have the most health-per-cost of any floating Terran building. Plus the game AI is derp, and all the Protoss units will TARGET the Barracks, rather htan your units for some reason. I honestly don't know why, they just love shooting at the Barracks which isn't doing anything. Also, Terran is going to be floating Minerals like crazy, no matter how many Orbital Commands/Hellions you build. Once you are maxed, your money can be used much more efficiency not only in the form of Barracks, but Turrets as well.
Adding in a few Ghosts, we now have a virtually unstoppable army. The key is getting here. In fact, I don't make a single push...until I've taken every single base on my side of the map. Rather, I simply take the best defensive positions (this is map dependent) to take bases, and use an excessive amount of static defense to hold things off.
We don't really care about harassment, because if we are positioned right, nothing the Protoss throws at us can defeat us.
Mass Immortals, I feel, as the largest detriment to mech; and they must be dealt with with a combination of Cloaked Banshees and Ghosts.
We do have a harass capability: Cloaked Banshees, but I recommend harassing in a manner that is used to GAIN GROUND, never send them to the edges of the map or stuff, because the Banshees are key not only for defense, but in the main engagement as well. In fact, I like sending my Vikings forward and just sniping off the Observers, and then having the 5-7 Cloaked Banshees just terran them up...it takes away from the Immortal count, which is really what we want.
Remember to SPAM those Barracks, keep the tank count high, keep a decent Banshee/Viking count, and make lots of Orbitals and sacrifice your SCVs to make more stuff...and most of all, remember to play extremely safe. The game will favor Terran the longer it goes, no need to end it.
I actually prefer to keep most of my tanks unsieged, and using the Banshees to poke and prod, and find out where he'll attack, then sieging up in the right position. Make sure your Barracks wall is ALWAYS down. Only move it when he's a good distance away...because if the chargelots get under it, it's useless.
That's just my thoughts on mech.
Now, it's extremely hard to hold off what Protoss does, you literally have to play perfect...and a bit of a misstep in terms of positioning and you just die. It's ridiculously hard to pull off, so I never even bother. the main problem is that even if you do all that mass tank is still garbage against all protoss units.. Have you ever tested this out? Food for food, cost for cost, (provided the Barracks wall) mass tanks beats any non-air Protoss composition, with the exception of mass Immortals. But like 5 ghosts fixes that problem. 100 food of chargelot archon will beat 100+ food of +3 tanks, and chargelot archon is much easier to replace than 30+ tanks. when you're not in a maxed position chargelot archon wrecks tanks even worse. you can claim emp will beat it but you don't have the money for ghosts and get vikings and upgrades and take a third and research cloak and reactor and you can't chase archon zealot with tanks anyways so if protoss gets emp'd he can back off and there's literally nothing you can do about it. i played 100+ games of mech tvp at mid-high masters, it does not work well at all. Perhaps you were playing it wrong? 100 games of some random master player doesn't make all of Mech obsolete because he couldn't get it to work. It takes a lot more people, a lot smarter than the average masters player, to fully flesh out a style. And the argument you are making doesn't add anything to the topic of this thread. Contribute something or gtfo, this thread is called " How to Mech in TvP", not "Can you" or "Stories of some mid-master players struggles with Mech TvP"
i think that if the whole point of going mech is getting a ton of siege tanks and siege tanks are in fact garbage vs all protoss units, then the only real answer to "how to mech in tvp" is "play someone worse than you." if you're going to play someone worse than you you might as well do something funny like viking drops from medivacs but no one's going to make a thread about the most efficient reactor starport viking drop build.
and the other alternative to having mid-masters players discuss mech is to have bronze-gold discuss it? cause i don't see any gm players in here going "yeah mech is great i use it every tvp."
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That's not true. Playing mech with terran has to be approached the same way a standard protoss tech is run. You begin with rax units (gateway units) and continually replace them with stronger units (robo, stargate, templar tech). The problem is protoss tier 1 units are very strong on their own, so they can be retained throughout the game in smaller numbers, unlike terran tier 1. Marines are horrible against most late game compositions from protoss.
I think the answer to protoss is similiar to what QXC said about how zergs are playing now. Everyone has been mimicking Ret and Idra's macro style as zerg and they don't know how to play zerg any other way. Too many people say zerg has to be played "swarm style" when in fact there are other options that need to be explored.
TvP is the same way. We need to get out of this mindset that says MMMVG is the only comp for TvP mid-late game.
You missed the main point of my post. I dind't said mech is bad (i personaly think that, but i have no evidence to prove it), i said that protosess lack experience vs meching terran, so big winrate with mech on ladder probably expalined by this, not by mech effectivnes.
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On March 15 2012 09:14 owlofhell wrote:Show nested quote + That's not true. Playing mech with terran has to be approached the same way a standard protoss tech is run. You begin with rax units (gateway units) and continually replace them with stronger units (robo, stargate, templar tech). The problem is protoss tier 1 units are very strong on their own, so they can be retained throughout the game in smaller numbers, unlike terran tier 1. Marines are horrible against most late game compositions from protoss.
I think the answer to protoss is similiar to what QXC said about how zergs are playing now. Everyone has been mimicking Ret and Idra's macro style as zerg and they don't know how to play zerg any other way. Too many people say zerg has to be played "swarm style" when in fact there are other options that need to be explored.
TvP is the same way. We need to get out of this mindset that says MMMVG is the only comp for TvP mid-late game.
You missed the main point of my post. I dind't said mech is bad (i personaly think that, but i have no evidence to prove it), i said that protosess lack experience vs meching terran, so big winrate with mech on ladder probably expalined by this, not by mech effectivnes. This is one of the point of trying mech for an extended period of time. I do personally do like 90% of my games with mech since like 1 year, so i've seen lots of people trying various strats, lots of potentials counters,etc . . Had to that countless games with pratices partners, clan wars where people know and prepare for their opponent, etc. . . It's easy to say 'mech is not viable,looks at game X or try army X vs army Y' by basing yoursel on a little sample (or based on nothing at all, like a lot of people on this thread do). Most of these people don't even know how a good mech army will look. For nearly everyone, saying 'TvP mech' is like saying 'ok so i open 1 rax FE into 4 gaz into 5 facto making 50 tanks and A moving' or 'ok so i 111 allin every game with 4 tanks'.
In my personal case, lots of people tried to explain me how bad mech TvP is and don't believe me when i say i got to my rank by pure meching. And when i ask them 'Did you at least tried it?' , the only answer i got was 'Not worthing it lol'. Well, for me i could say the same with bio . . .
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On March 15 2012 07:38 MockHamill wrote: People have got mech to work up to high Masters in TvP. Who cares if it viable at pro level, 99.99% of the people reading this thread will never be pro anyway.
The more relevant question is: Does it work against an equally skilled opponent below pro level? So far everything seems to indicate this.
I know that since I switched to Marauder/Banshee into Marauder/Banshee/BC I have a much easier time against Protoss compared to when I did MMM+V/G. Suddenly it is Protoss that plays against the clock and needs to kill me before late game or be in a very bad position.
When I did MMM+V/G I really needed to outplay my opponent in order to win. If I just played 10-15% better than him I lost. With Marauder/Banshee into Marauder/Banshee/BC/Medivac/Ghost I have never lost to an opponent that played worse than me, only if they played better.
So I would even go so far to say that MMM+V/G is weak and incorrect way of playing TvP below pro level. Why force yourself to out-micro and out-multitask your opponent just to have a chance of winning instead of just going with a more solid composition. Why play against the clock when you have units combos that just rapes everything Protoss has late game.
bio is good, you just have to know how to play it. it's really hard to deal with nexus snipes in particular. i can't see you beating a toss that has scouted you going marauder/banshee/BC. maybe you left out vikings?
anyways, i played a game against a mech terran today and rofl stomped him. i shut down his banshee harass with 5 pheonix and an obs, skipped collosus tech until the late game then just a-moved his tank/banshee force with immortal/zealot while storming banshees. i should mention i'm plat and this guy was diamond.
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This is one of the point of trying mech for an extended period of time. I do personally do like 90% of my games with mech since like 1 year, so i've seen lots of people trying various strats, lots of potentials counters,etc . . Had to that countless games with pratices partners, clan wars where people know and prepare for their opponent, etc. . . It's easy to say 'mech is not viable,looks at game X or try army X vs army Y' by basing yoursel on a little sample (or based on nothing at all, like a lot of people on this thread do). Most of these people don't even know how a good mech army will look. For nearly everyone, saying 'TvP mech' is like saying 'ok so i open 1 rax FE into 4 gaz into 5 facto making 50 tanks and A moving' or 'ok so i 111 allin every game with 4 tanks'.
In my personal case, lots of people tried to explain me how bad mech TvP is and don't believe me when i say i got to my rank by pure meching. And when i ask them 'Did you at least tried it?' , the only answer i got was 'Not worthing it lol'. Well, for me i could say the same with bio . . . Last edit: 2012-03-15 09:23:51
Each player have his style to play the game. I, personally, like bio since i like be all over the place, doing 2-4 simultaneous drops and being able to get avay with that. Someone like mech feeling more, i am not one to judge.
But even if you did played mech for a year, it won't help educate Protosses on a matter how to deal with mech. To really get how good mech works hundreds of games needed, same terran playing same protoss playing 20-30 games in a row.
I can give a lot of reasons why bio is better, someone can tell that mech is better. But ladder shows which build is simpler and more effective.
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This is why i also add pratices partner (people with which you can refined both builds and counter-builds), and clans war (where people can know their opponent 1 week or so before the match, and prepare in order to do it) as example. And also in one year i've encounter same protoss loads of times.
I'm not trying to say that mech is better or anything like that. Just want to say that except if you have a lots of experience with it,saying 'omg mech is trash in TvP' is pointless as you'll just throw random arguments without anything to back it up except "because everybody say it lol" or "any decent toss will easily defeat it" , like nearly everybody is doing on this thread
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[B]On March 15 2012 09:22 Lyyna wrote: That's not true. Playing mech with terran has to be approached the same way a standard protoss tech is run. You begin with rax units (gateway units) and continually replace them with stronger units (robo, stargate, templar tech). The problem is protoss tier 1 units are very strong on their own, so they can be retained throughout the game in smaller numbers, unlike terran tier 1. Marines are horrible against most late game compositions from protoss.
I think the answer to protoss is similiar to what QXC said about how zergs are playing now. Everyone has been mimicking Ret and Idra's macro style as zerg and they don't know how to play zerg any other way. Too many people say zerg has to be played "swarm style" when in fact there are other options that need to be explored.
TvP is the same way. We need to get out of this mindset that says MMMVG is the only comp for TvP mid-late game.
This is one of the point of trying mech for an extended period of time. I do personally do like 90% of my games with mech since like 1 year, so i've seen lots of people trying various strats, lots of potentials counters,etc . . Had to that countless games with pratices partners, clan wars where people know and prepare for their opponent, etc. . . It's easy to say 'mech is not viable,looks at game X or try army X vs army Y' by basing yoursel on a little sample (or based on nothing at all, like a lot of people on this thread do). Most of these people don't even know how a good mech army will look. For nearly everyone, saying 'TvP mech' is like saying 'ok so i open 1 rax FE into 4 gaz into 5 facto making 50 tanks and A moving' or 'ok so i 111 allin every game with 4 tanks'.
In my personal case, lots of people tried to explain me how bad mech TvP is and don't believe me when i say i got to my rank by pure meching. And when i ask them 'Did you at least tried it?' , the only answer i got was 'Not worthing it lol'. Well, for me i could say the same with bio
OK, I played MECH during almost the start of starcraft 2 and its not viable ! A lot of people think mech is viable because its work on diamond and lower league. But again master protoss good luck. Because you 'll never beat a mass carrier army anyway. Mech have no answer for lategame, and its only good for a midgame push
btw, lyyna you said that you use mass banshee with your mech army. I tried that style too. Skyterran is viable not mech. I had best result with only sky than the mix with the factory unit.
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You say it's not viable in master? I'm high master, and i may be in GM next season. I beat mass carriers by using a combination of ravens with HSM (mass carriers clumps a lot, just like mass BL do), ghosts (EMP + cloack is money), BC (for yamato'ing as much carriers and the often present mother ship) and thors (add some AOE).
I do not use 'mass' banshee. I do add banshee out of 1 starport , sometimes 2, and will get BC out of 2 or 3 starports when on 3/4 bases.
As i said like 25 times, people need to stop thinking of mech as 'make 50 tanks,remove ur brain, A move'. You have the right to play defensive. You have the right to make others units. You have the right to make air and bio units to support your mech.
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please add some replay sir
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
Am I the only one here who wants to discuss how to actually play Mech TvP? All of you are just arguing back and forth about whether or not it is viable, or if it only works in X leagues, or if it only works because Protoss don't know how to respond, blah blah blah blah blah.
Let's talk about the best ways to play Mech TvP in a thread called "How to Mech TvP". I know, wild idea guys. Seriously, I wish mods were more present and would actually try and keep people on topic here. This is ridiculous, this thread might as well be closed the way it is going.
If you want to discuss whether or not Mech is viable in TvP, make a thread for that discussion.
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I dunno if its a mech but i played a PvT vs the guy who went like MnM timing attack like 2 rax into expansion into double fac and banshee...Then he transitioned purely into Marauder medivac with a lot of tanks and some banshees, and some ghosts... I almost lost it :D
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On March 15 2012 10:08 ZjiublingZ wrote: Am I the only one here who wants to discuss how to actually play Mech TvP? All of you are just arguing back and forth about whether or not it is viable, or if it only works in X leagues, or if it only works because Protoss don't know how to respond, blah blah blah blah blah.
Let's talk about the best ways to play Mech TvP in a thread called "How to Mech TvP". I know, wild idea guys. Seriously, I wish mods were more present and would actually try and keep people on topic here. This is ridiculous, this thread might as well be closed the way it is going.
If you want to discuss whether or not Mech is viable in TvP, make a thread for that discussion.
how do you discuss a strategy that doesn't work? viability is pretty important.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On March 15 2012 10:26 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 10:08 ZjiublingZ wrote: Am I the only one here who wants to discuss how to actually play Mech TvP? All of you are just arguing back and forth about whether or not it is viable, or if it only works in X leagues, or if it only works because Protoss don't know how to respond, blah blah blah blah blah.
Let's talk about the best ways to play Mech TvP in a thread called "How to Mech TvP". I know, wild idea guys. Seriously, I wish mods were more present and would actually try and keep people on topic here. This is ridiculous, this thread might as well be closed the way it is going.
If you want to discuss whether or not Mech is viable in TvP, make a thread for that discussion. how do you discuss a strategy that doesn't work? viability is pretty important.
It's very easy to discuss a Strategy that "doesn't work". If by "doesn't work" you mean it isn't solid enough to become standard play. Clearly it can work against extremely skilled players. We saw MKP pull if off against Genius. Regardless of how Genius fucked up, MKP's build was still optimized, and had many elements worthy of discussion, and most importantly, isn't perfect. It can be improved. The same is true for all Mech. Perhaps Mech can't compete with a Protoss who responds correctly, but there are plenty of guides about specific builds here on TL that don't work when your opponent responds correctly. It isn't helpful to debate or discuss that. It is helpful to discuss ways to improve those builds.
The same is true for Mech. Whether or not Mech is solid enough to become a standard or viable way to play every single TvP, there are builds that do better than others. There are ways to improve those builds. There are timings to hit Protoss with a Mech or semi-Mech army that are capable of winning games against standard Protoss openings. There are things not everyone has tried (EX: Building Barracks to create barriers).
If people like you weren't flooding this thread with pointless discussion where neither side can prove their point, we could discuss ways to improve upon all of these things. Perhaps invent never tried before Mech builds, or discover unknown Mech timings, or we can discuss ways to improve current Mech play. We could optimize and invent Mech openings. We could even analyze replays of Mech TvP'ers and tell them ways to improve their play or things they could have done.
So will you please either contribute to the discussion on How to best play Mech TvP, or if you believe there is no proper response to the question, GTFO and let others actually discuss How to Mech TvP.
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