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Just a quick heads up, looks like the Raven got the speed buff after all, just not in WoL.
Combined with the lowered energy cost of the Seeker Missile it's easily the best addition for Terran in HotS in my opinion.
Edit: For the people who weren't aware of this yet, the Energy cost of the Seeker Missile has been lowered to 100, allowing 1 Raven to shoot 2.
Pretty cool stuff.
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Combined with the lowered energy cost of the Seeker Missile it's easily the best addition for Terran in HotS in my opinion.
Waaaaaaait. Seeker missile is cheaper ?
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On September 07 2012 21:37 Mauti wrote:Show nested quote +Combined with the lowered energy cost of the Seeker Missile it's easily the best addition for Terran in HotS in my opinion. Waaaaaaait. Seeker missile is cheaper ? Yes, it costs 100 energy. It might be even overpowered now lol, whenever you engage Terran, you just eat 3-4 Seeker Missiles and your army disappears. ;D
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Glad they are actually using the beta to try out new things
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Can be it a joke or true, but Raven can be considered as new unit for Terrans in HotS
Also what is the counter to mass ravens? Don't say me corruptors, they are bad vs PDD
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On September 07 2012 23:28 Existor wrote:Can be it a joke or true, but Raven can be considered as new unit for Terrans in HotS Also what is the counter to mass ravens? Don't say me corruptors, they are bad vs PDD
Anything AA would work pretty well provided you split your units decently. Corruptors would do pretty well despite PDD as they survive 2 direct seeker missile hits i believe.
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On September 07 2012 23:31 Lurk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 23:28 Existor wrote:Can be it a joke or true, but Raven can be considered as new unit for Terrans in HotS Also what is the counter to mass ravens? Don't say me corruptors, they are bad vs PDD Anything AA would work pretty well provided you split your units decently. Corruptors would do pretty well despite PDD as they survive 2 direct seeker missile hits i believe.
there is no despite PDD. or do you think the terran player just forgets to use it? :D
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Haha, they make terran great at start of each game (WoL, HotS, LotV). And enjoy the rage while only nerfing them after that. Problem terrans?
Well, they made ghost cloak bad. So It's probably not their master plan...
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the only good thing about terran in hots
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That makes the raven a new unit just like hydras and ultras. Not a new unit but significantly expanded role compared to WoL.
Counter to mass ravens? Vikings and Templars should still annihilate them. Zerg may have trouble as corruptors are barely any faster, and mutas instadie vs seeker missiles. High APM zerg will learn to split speed hydras and mutas. Fungal should still work vs ravens, and abducting into a group of hydras should work as well.
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That's exactly what ravens needed; 125 energy was way too much, it made it such a hit or miss spell that when you intend on using it, you have to cross your fingers and hope your opponent screws up.
Great and needed change IMO.
On September 08 2012 00:36 Piousflea wrote: That makes the raven a new unit just like hydras and ultras. Not a new unit but significantly expanded role compared to WoL.
Counter to mass ravens? Vikings and Templars should still annihilate them. Zerg may have trouble as corruptors are barely any faster, and mutas instadie vs seeker missiles. High APM zerg will learn to split speed hydras and mutas. Fungal should still work vs ravens, and abducting into a group of hydras should work as well.
I think NP on infestor would be excellent against ravens, given enough micro, you could NP one raven and HSM the rest of the Terran army, (seeing as the army will generally be mech, and therefore slow-moving).
Also HSM gives that great spectator aspect to the game of having explosions going off all over the place.
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Mass warhound + 2 Seeker per raven = GG?? That seems pretty deadly :O
But I'm glad they did decide to tweak the Raven in HotS.. Despite chnging their minds in WoL.
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The raven seeker missle energy change is FANTASTIC. Very excited about that.
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Why couldn't they make this change in WoL? Fucking christ.
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T_T Flying baneling Ravens. Spread out(so it takes more than 2 fungals to catch them all), right-click during or right before a battle, then mass HSM the Zerg deathball... Yeah, sounds fun.
/sarcasm
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On September 08 2012 01:53 acrimoneyius wrote: Why couldn't they make this change in WoL? Fucking christ.
Think about it as a little extra incentive to buy HotS.
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Hmm cool does this make toss need to split now? I mean multiple seeker missiles hitting a group of stalkers would hurt.
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On September 08 2012 02:11 Yaldi wrote: Hmm cool does this make toss need to split now? I mean multiple seeker missiles hitting a group of stalkers would hurt.
If it goes unscouted, yes. Otherwise Feedback still out-ranges the Seeker by 3.
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makes it possible to survive feedbacks, really nice (otherwise energy management had a really small window for surviving feedback). The change should be in WoL as well though, but i would have prefered the old heat seeker missile. Raven is still a need 400 different upgrades unit, but now atleast there is some usefulness before you have them all.
On a sidenote, they are probably using HotS beta for these more extreme changes, to have enough even bothering playing and using them. So i doubt these changes are final (will make it through nevertheless though since the raven needed changes after the roflnerf from the start)
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Is PDD counters tempest's shots?
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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No cooldown on seeker missile, so you can shoot two at once? that's pretty scary.
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does seeker missile have a cd like storm or raven can just drop 2 hunter seeker instantly?
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This is the one best change to HOTS so far because it makes TvZ lategame more forgiving for the Terran and lets you get a seeker faster in those situations where zerg has their deathball up and you desperately need something to fight against it.
The lower energy makes it like a templar in how you do not have to wait forever so your raven will have a chance to pay istelf off, and now that you can have 2 missiles potentially at max energy means Terran does have a strong late game option, just like the other two races.
I am thinking they put these into HOTS beta as a test as well as to see if it goes well and then hopefully they would implement it in wings of liberty as well (one can only hope).
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This will make mass raven in 4v4 even more fun. :D
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On September 07 2012 21:44 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:37 Mauti wrote:Combined with the lowered energy cost of the Seeker Missile it's easily the best addition for Terran in HotS in my opinion. Waaaaaaait. Seeker missile is cheaper ? Yes, it costs 100 energy. It might be even overpowered now lol, whenever you engage Terran, you just eat 3-4 Seeker Missiles and your army disappears. ;D
you mean to say that toss and zerg will have to micro their armies and learn to split? holy crap! Welcome to playing bio vs zerg in 2010 or playing TvP when protoss learned how to FF properly ;p
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Lol @ raven blocking tempest with pdd That realy is a verry hard counter, with tempest only firing once every 6 seconds.
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On September 08 2012 11:43 Rassy wrote: Lol @ raven blocking tempest with pdd That realy is a verry hard counter, with tempest only firing once every 6 seconds.
Every 3.3 seconds 6 was the old firerate
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On September 07 2012 23:28 Existor wrote:Can be it a joke or true, but Raven can be considered as new unit for Terrans in HotS Also what is the counter to mass ravens? Don't say me corruptors, they are bad vs PDD
Maybe fungal growth? Or just kill him before he's maxed.
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On September 08 2012 01:53 acrimoneyius wrote: Why couldn't they make this change in WoL? Fucking christ.
Starcraft 2: Balance Sold Separately
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On September 09 2012 07:11 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:53 acrimoneyius wrote: Why couldn't they make this change in WoL? Fucking christ. Starcraft 2: Balance Sold Separately
or they are not sure if buffing Raven is good so they do it in the way that won't affect anything.
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I think abduct could help out against Ravens as Zerg... Maybe even abducting your own units away from the missiles.
I wish there was a minimum range on seeker missiles, though, so you get a chance to run from it and it's easier to watch. I'm all for buffing it, but a bunch of ravens suiciding in and killing an entire army instantly isn't exactly fun.
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On September 08 2012 11:36 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:44 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 07 2012 21:37 Mauti wrote:Combined with the lowered energy cost of the Seeker Missile it's easily the best addition for Terran in HotS in my opinion. Waaaaaaait. Seeker missile is cheaper ? Yes, it costs 100 energy. It might be even overpowered now lol, whenever you engage Terran, you just eat 3-4 Seeker Missiles and your army disappears. ;D you mean to say that toss and zerg will have to micro their armies and learn to split? holy crap! Welcome to playing bio vs zerg in 2010 or playing TvP when protoss learned how to FF properly ;p Nope, I didn't mean that. I meant that you need 3 Ravens to destroy whole army, because HSM does 100 instant damage(and a little bit lower in AoE). Storm and Fungal do 80 and 30/40 damage in a period of 4 seconds, you can evade Storms, but Fungal is retarded because it is root effect, so you basically have to pre-split, but even if you get caught by Fungal, I have to do damage with my units, because Fungal isn't doing enough. On the other hand, 5-6 HSM really are enough to kill the whole army, except for Ultralisks.
And I am pretty sure that both Protoss and Zerg players can split and micro their army, because there are lot of scenarios where you have to do that.
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Max-energy Ravens getting twice as many seeker's? That's a pretty big buff. I feel they might lower the damage to compensate. I think that's a better trade off anyway.
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LOL ok, so what exactly would be my incentive to make mines?
Mass splash damage winner: Raven
Map control winner: None as the widow mine is trash and costs 2 supply. It doesnt detect any more either rofl
Saving grace from air to ground attacks in your mech army (ie: enemy banshees, mutalisks, especially tempests with their slow attack rate): Raven with PDD
Supply and cost effectiveness: Raven. 2 seeker missiles and it basically changes the outcome of the battle.
Detection: Raven
Mobility: Raven
Harrass opportunities: Raven
So in a 200/200 situation it would make no sense whatsoever to make widow mines, or indeed any mines throughout the entire game, and just save that wasted gas and minerals, and keep pumping Ravens.
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Korea (South)1936 Posts
WOW
seeker missile energy? holy crap
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Korea (South)1936 Posts
On September 09 2012 19:25 cablesc wrote: Max-energy Ravens getting twice as many seeker's? That's a pretty big buff. I feel they might lower the damage to compensate. I think that's a better trade off anyway.
I wouldn't mind a lower damage, or even smaller radius. I just don't want a unit to be completely worthless for a few minutes after I've gotten it
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hmm. also hope they keep it. just nerf the damage and/or radius of hsm but let raven do 2 hsms instead of 1. perhaps combined with a nerf on PDD since corruptors and especially tempest will get pretty hardcountered.
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or just decrease a bit the hsm speed, so it give you the time to spread your army
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If the ability had the same AOE as storm, fungel and EMP, I don't think anyone would have a problem. Right now the AOE is massive and far larger than any other spell in the game. Sure it cost more energy(25), but the amount of damage 100 damage is more than any of the other spells and the AOE is far larger(old EMP). Bring it in line with the other spells in AOE and it would be a totally reasonable ability at 100 damage.
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On September 10 2012 05:30 Plansix wrote:If the ability had the same AOE as storm, fungel and EMP, I don't think anyone would have a problem. Right now the AOE is massive and far larger than any other spell in the game. Sure it cost more energy(25), but the amount of damage 100 damage is more than any of the other spells and the AOE is far larger(old EMP). Bring it in line with the other spells in AOE and it would be a totally reasonable ability at 100 damage.
The damage decreases significantly when it comes to the splash damage.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/index.php?title=File:Marauderafter.jpg&filetimestamp=20100618051642
That's when a pack of Marauders get Seeker Missiled, it's in total of 525 damage. With if it had been storm you could have done 480 damage. Now note that in both cases there was zero micro. The strength of SM comes from the fact that they stack, not that they deal much more damage than storm for example.
If there would be cooldown on SM (around 20 seconds) then it's not big deal to reduce the energy cost to 100.
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you have not mentioned that storm is dodgable, sm not(at least not from slow units)
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On September 10 2012 06:03 Garmer wrote: you have not mentioned that storm is dodgable, sm not(at least not from slow units)
I said that was no micro, if those marauders had been spread in then again SM would have barely done anything.
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Keep the 100 energy but give the spell a slight minimum range to go with the maximum range, or a slight delay before the missile arms and starts to move - either way so you can't raven tackle.
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HSM doesn't need any adjustments to stay at 100 energy.
It's hard countered by micro — something that has been hitherto unknown for Z and P.
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i posted this in another thread, but ill post it here as well, since i know blizzard is reading this feedback from teamliquid.
To me the seeker missile is flawed in its current form. Its either completely OP or completely useless. Here are my solutions
1) remove seeker missile, bring in irradiate instead.
OR
2) keep the hunter seeker missile, But rework it
A) have it do less AOE damage. B) Have the cost of the ability be less energy so it can be used more. C) have the target of the hunter seeker always get damaged no matter what. And let micro from your opponent determine any further damage.
So basically the missile should shoot out quite slowly no matter what range its casted from, of which should give the opponent a set amount of time to react to prevent further damage but out-running the missile should be impossible as it should keep speeding up the further it travels.
With those changes to the seeker missile, It will be balance and it will make sense to get the raven.
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On September 10 2012 11:02 johnny123 wrote: i posted this in another thread, but ill post it here as well, since i know blizzard is reading this feedback from teamliquid.
To me the seeker missile is flawed in its current form. Its either completely OP or completely useless. Here are my solutions
1) remove seeker missile, bring in irradiate instead.
OR
2) keep the hunter seeker missile, But rework it
A) have it do less AOE damage. B) Have the cost of the ability be less energy so it can be used more. C) have the target of the hunter seeker always get damaged no matter what. And let micro from your opponent determine any further damage.
So basically the missile should shoot out quite slowly no matter what range its casted from, of which should give the opponent a set amount of time to react to prevent further damage but out-running the missile should be impossible as it should keep speeding up the further it travels.
With those changes to the seeker missile, It will be balance and it will make sense to get the raven.
Even if a Seeker Missile can't catch its target, it removes it from the fight because said target is booking it to the other side of the map. Also, keep in mind that even slow units like infestors can dodge it by loading into an ovie / prism / medivac; the missile hits the spot the unit was last 'seen' before being loaded.
The ability SHOULD be as powerful as it is currently (and perhaps cost even less to cast), simply because it forces your opponent to pay attention to / participate in a fight, beyond simply avoiding your ghosts, pressing T or F, and guiding banelings to marines.
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On September 10 2012 10:27 DemigodcelpH wrote: HSM doesn't need any adjustments to stay at 100 energy.
It's hard countered by micro — something that has been hitherto unknown for Z and P. Yeah, only Terran players know to micro...
God, how is TL even letting people post bullshits like that.
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On September 10 2012 16:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 10:27 DemigodcelpH wrote: HSM doesn't need any adjustments to stay at 100 energy.
It's hard countered by micro — something that has been hitherto unknown for Z and P. Yeah, only Terran players know to micro... God, how is TL even letting people post bullshits like that.
rofl. so right dude :D
every terran i play in the ladder these days complains about a-move and OP zerg. played ling bling muta yesterday so i had 3 control groups with lings to surround, banelings move-commanding towards marines and split + attack with them when i was near marines and focus-firing tanks with mutas. after winning the fight he wrote "fucking a move easy race" and left. :D
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If they take it out, without waiting how it turns out, I'll consider quitting SC2.
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On September 07 2012 23:28 Existor wrote:Can be it a joke or true, but Raven can be considered as new unit for Terrans in HotS Also what is the counter to mass ravens? Don't say me corruptors, they are bad vs PDD I'm pretty sure the counter is more Ravens.
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United Kingdom12010 Posts
On September 11 2012 03:13 rembrant wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 23:28 Existor wrote:Can be it a joke or true, but Raven can be considered as new unit for Terrans in HotS Also what is the counter to mass ravens? Don't say me corruptors, they are bad vs PDD I'm pretty sure the counter is more Ravens.
Fungal outranges HSM and despite what Sheth was saying yesterday it is a really amazingly good counter versus ravens.
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