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Hey TL. I remember when Blizzard used to release weekly top 200s there used to be analysis threads, and though you can't derive too much concrete information from ladder statistics it can be an interesting exercise nonetheless. I chose Korea because it has the most competitive and toughest ladder. I got all my information from http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/kr/grandmaster/1/all/points/100
Race Statistics Terran - 78 players in Grandmaster. 39% of the total Protoss - 65 players in Grandmaster. 32.5% of the total Zerg - 56 Players in Grandmaster. 28% of the total Random - 1 Player in Grandmaser. 0.5% of the total
Please note that the account "Checkraise" is counted here as Zerg, though it was being played as Protoss by LiquidHuk when it got into Grandmaster.
The Best of the Best Top three: 1. Ellenpage (Marineking) with a 75% winrate. 2. scfOu with a 66.05% winrate. 3. KeenMVP with a 69% winrate.
Top Ten: The top ten consists of 9 Terrans, one Protoss and no Zerg.
Top Twenty: The top twenty consists of 15 Terran, two Protoss and three Zerg.
Foreigner Power There are between three and four non-Koreans in Korean Grandmaster (depending on how you count). Highest is, as always, LiquidHuk, coming in at 137, closely followed by ZergKing (Sen) at 145. FXOMoongalde comes in at 189, followed by the joint Dimaga/LiquidHuk account CheckRaise (though it was Huk who was playing the account when it got into Grandmaster, after Dimaga had left Korea) at 197.
Of course all this analysis becomes much more interesting when you observe the change over time. If I can find time I'll try to do this semi-frequently.
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I can't wait for GSL tonight, I can finally see KeenMvP play. He's been destroying kids on the ladder, just like IMMvp/ST_Bomber before they broke out.
EDIT: I've also noticed that there aren't a lot of pros doing very well on the ladder. LosirA's win % is only around 50%, same with HuK's etc.
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On April 25 2011 06:29 MechKing wrote: I can't wait for GSL tonight, I can finally see KeenMvP play. He's been destroying kids on the ladder, just like IMMvp/ST_Bomber before they broke out.
EDIT: I've also noticed that there aren't a lot of pros doing very well on the ladder. LosirA's win % is only around 50%, same with HuK's etc.
Well, they are trying out some new stuff they're not all that solid with on the ladder, for example huk was doing this stargate build in every PvZ he had one day he was streaming. Wasn't necesarrily working out too well imo, but gotta widen the spectre of builds they got you know
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I find that Zerg in the early game is most vulnerable to cheeses/rushes because they have to decide, Defense or Economy? Without their 2nd base, they are extremely weak. That might be why there are no zergs in top 10 of Korea Grandmaster. Also, the Korean grandmaster is essentially the best of the best. If you make one mistake, you pretty much lose because of how good the players are.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 25 2011 06:29 MechKing wrote: I can't wait for GSL tonight, I can finally see KeenMvP play. He's been destroying kids on the ladder, just like IMMvp/ST_Bomber before they broke out.
EDIT: I've also noticed that there aren't a lot of pros doing very well on the ladder. LosirA's win % is only around 50%, same with HuK's etc. Huks is way above 50%, but White-Ra used that account during his stay in Korea.
The only non-korean aside from Huk that has a higher winrate than 50% this season, that I know of, is Dimaga (he had like 55%ish? maybe a bit higher, very good eitherway).
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On April 25 2011 06:34 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:29 MechKing wrote: I can't wait for GSL tonight, I can finally see KeenMvP play. He's been destroying kids on the ladder, just like IMMvp/ST_Bomber before they broke out.
EDIT: I've also noticed that there aren't a lot of pros doing very well on the ladder. LosirA's win % is only around 50%, same with HuK's etc. Huks is way above 50%, but White-Ra used that account during his stay in Korea. The only non-korean aside from Huk that has a higher winrate than 50% this season, that I know of, is Dimaga (he had like 55%ish? maybe a bit higher, very good eitherway). Ah, I see. Just curious though, have you ever played against Keen? I cannot find anything about this guy
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props to the one random player
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Wasn't there some explanation for Terrans doing well on the ladder that went something like Terrans focus on early game aggression and therefore mass more games in the same amount of time than their zerg and terran counterparts so their ranks increase the most quickly? Does this still hold true, especially with MVP claiming Terran is currently "the weakest race"
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On April 25 2011 06:26 sickoota wrote:Hey TL. I remember when Blizzard used to release weekly top 200s there used to be analysis threads, and though you can't derive too much concrete information from ladder statistics it can be an interesting exercise nonetheless. I chose Korea because it has the most competitive and toughest ladder. I got all my information from http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/kr/grandmaster/1/all/points/100 Race StatisticsTerran - 81 players in Grandmaster. 40.5% of the total Protoss - 64 players in Grandmaster. 32% of the total Zerg - 45 Players in Grandmaster. 27% of the total Random - 1 Player in Grandmaser. 0.5% of the total Please note that the account "Checkraise" is counted here as Zerg, though it was being played as Protoss by LiquidHuk when it got into Grandmaster. The Best of the BestTop three: 1. Ellenpage (Marineking) with a 75% winrate. 2. scfOu with a 66.05% winrate. 3. KeenMVP with a 69% winrate. Top Ten: The top ten consists of 9 Terrans, one Protoss and no Zerg. Top Twenty: The top twenty consists of 15 Terran, two Protoss and three Zerg. Foreigner PowerThere are between three and four non-Koreans in Korean Grandmaster (depending on how you count). Highest is, as always, LiquidHuk, coming in at 137, closely followed by ZergKing (Sen) at 145. FXOMoongalde comes in at 189, followed by the joint Dimaga/LiquidHuk account CheckRaise (though it was Huk who was playing the account when it got into Grandmaster, after Dimaga had left Korea) at 197. Of course all this analysis becomes much more interesting when you observe the change over time. If I can find time I'll try to do this semi-frequently.
The most interesting thing about the Korean ladder is the odd Terran dominance. Where other theaters are seeing a rapid decline in Terran numbers in higher leagues, Korea holds on steadfast. It could very well be a lack of defining Protoss competition in Korea. When we take into account how well so many foreign Protoss do in international tournaments and compare it to the rather "poor" performance of Protoss in the GSL, it would hint that Korean Protoss just may not be hitting Terran like it should.
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Dongraegu still holding it down in the top 20, can't wait until he finally qualifies or MVP plays in the TeamLeague so we can see more of him.
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France12466 Posts
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Marineking may be 2nd forever but on ladder he is 1st foreverrrrrr lol maybe its his own way of making sure he at least isn't 2nd in everything.
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On April 25 2011 06:37 GhostKorean wrote: Wasn't there some explanation for Terrans doing well on the ladder that went something like Terrans focus on early game aggression and therefore mass more games in the same amount of time than their zerg and terran counterparts so their ranks increase the most quickly? Does this still hold true, especially with MVP claiming Terran is currently "the weakest race"
did you actually listen to the interview or you just trolling?
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On April 25 2011 06:37 GhostKorean wrote: Wasn't there some explanation for Terrans doing well on the ladder that went something like Terrans focus on early game aggression and therefore mass more games in the same amount of time than their zerg and terran counterparts so their ranks increase the most quickly? Does this still hold true, especially with MVP claiming Terran is currently "the weakest race" Ladder rank has nothing to do with how many games you can mass. For example, #10 on the ladder, 별구름, only has 70 games played, but has a sick 71% ratio. Its all about win % as well as the quality of opponents you face.
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big respekt to this one random player , <3 to you
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I hope sC puts MarineKing in his rightful place soon.
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Thanks for the statistics. Al least MarineKing is not second here :> How big are the chances to see some change is this division, considering that so few people should let their bonus pool inflate over 180 ? Good luck Jinro & HayprO !
Edit : The Random player seems to be 스타테일무작위왕 (STMax?)
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well, I hope people realize that ladder isn't purely indicative of who is doing the best, or which race is doing the best considering a lot of top pros don't ladder much, and that laddering is much, much different from winning a BoX against a well-known player
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MKP is legendary in the korean ladder, owning it since GSL2.
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I think terran is doing so well in Korea because I feel personally that the terran race rewards those with the best mechanics more than the other races and those guys are pretty flawless when it comes to that.
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Btw, NaDa's win % is only 53% lol.
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On April 25 2011 06:46 red4ce wrote: I hope sC puts MarineKing in his rightful place soon.
hahahaha yes! he must be runner up in ladder rank or the universe is in imbalance!
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Is there any SlayerS' player in the list ? I couldn't find any, maybe some are there with korean names ? Otherwise they may simply not ladder at all... Edit : forget this post, they are there with korean names -_-°
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Also, why is there an account LiquidJinro and then JinroMvP?
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Why does Ryung have the Prime tag (assuming that that's the same Ryung)? Simply a case of names not updating, I assume.
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As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/
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On April 25 2011 06:54 Javah wrote: Is there any SlayerS' player in the list ? I couldn't find any, maybe some are there with korean names ? Otherwise they may simply not ladder at all...
슬레이어스밀즈(Slayers Mealz..?) 103-52 66.45% 슬레이어스라츠(Slayers Lots..?) 139-112 55.38% 슬레이어스심장(Slayers Heart) 123-101 54.91% 창조의아침(Slayers Yugioh) 170 146 53.80% 슬레이어스천재(Slayers Prodigy) 76-53 58.91%
알리시아(Slayers Alicia) 98-43 69.50% 슬레이어스짭승우(Slayers MMA) 21-8 72.41% 슬레이어스셀라(Slayers Cella) 95-107 47.03% etc...
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On April 25 2011 07:01 HolyArrow wrote: Why does Ryung have the Prime tag (assuming that that's the same Ryung)? Simply a case of names not updating, I assume.
Maybe because he is in prime Clan, but not the prime Team.
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If you look globally that trend of terran dominance continues with 8 terrans in the top 10 globally with the first protoss showing up at rank 9 and the first zerg at a tie for 6th
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On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Ummm, what site are you looking at? Check out sc2ranks.com
2 EU Happy 775 215 32 87.04% 3 EU mouzStrelok 770 110 19 85.27% 6 EU mTwDIMAGA 760 71 13 84.52% 15 CN NvxiaOt 728 237 39 85.87% 36 LA LATroXor 678 47 6 88.68%
etc etc there's a bunch with 80% + win rate.
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why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?!
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On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?!
Biased because it's his race?
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On April 25 2011 07:17 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Ummm, what site are you looking at? Check out sc2ranks.com 2 EU Happy 775 215 32 87.04% 3 EU mouzStrelok 770 110 19 85.27% 6 EU mTwDIMAGA 760 71 13 84.52% 15 CN NvxiaOt 728 237 39 85.87% 36 LA LATroXor 678 47 6 88.68% etc etc there's a bunch with 80% + win rate.
dimaga 84% on EU ladder and 56% on KR ladder..
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good analysis. i'd be interested in how many people play each race. is there just more terran on their ladder system? i think the reason for terran being higher is how safe they are.
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On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?!
Cause playing in tournaments and on ladder is the same thing amirite?
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On April 25 2011 07:17 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Ummm, what site are you looking at? Check out sc2ranks.com 2 EU Happy 775 215 32 87.04% 3 EU mouzStrelok 770 110 19 85.27% 6 EU mTwDIMAGA 760 71 13 84.52% 15 CN NvxiaOt 728 237 39 85.87% 36 LA LATroXor 678 47 6 88.68% etc etc there's a bunch with 80% + win rate. I know this is ground-breaking stuff, like some serious earth-shattering information right here, but the title is "Korean Grandmaster Analysis." *gasp*
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On April 25 2011 06:37 GhostKorean wrote: Wasn't there some explanation for Terrans doing well on the ladder that went something like Terrans focus on early game aggression and therefore mass more games in the same amount of time than their zerg and terran counterparts so their ranks increase the most quickly? Does this still hold true, especially with MVP claiming Terran is currently "the weakest race"
He did not state that, he said huge GSL maps weaken Terran the most, because T has no warpin like P and no speed units like Z, in combination with the necessit to play agressive, i can see the point .. on the other hand T has mules so they do not need that much workers on maps with lotso expansions. This is a T advantage on large maps, Z&P need to devote nearby 100 supply on workers in macro games on huge maps.
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On April 25 2011 07:17 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Ummm, what site are you looking at? Check out sc2ranks.com 2 EU Happy 775 215 32 87.04% 3 EU mouzStrelok 770 110 19 85.27% 6 EU mTwDIMAGA 760 71 13 84.52% 15 CN NvxiaOt 728 237 39 85.87% 36 LA LATroXor 678 47 6 88.68% etc etc there's a bunch with 80% + win rate. it's pretty well known that korean ladder is much harder and much more competitive
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What's up with all these analysis threads? An analysis should contain something more than the listing of a few easily obtainable facts/statistics.
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On April 25 2011 08:12 LaLuSh wrote: What's up with all these analysis threads? An analysis should contain something more than the listing of a few easily obtainable facts/statistics.
agreed!
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On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/
He stopped throwing games.
I kid I kid.
It's cause he switched from Zerg.
Kidding!
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On April 25 2011 06:49 emc wrote: I think terran is doing so well in Korea because I feel personally that the terran race rewards those with the best mechanics more than the other races and those guys are pretty flawless when it comes to that.
Terran is the best race when played flawless. Not so good w/ mistakes though.
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On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?!
lol'd
On April 25 2011 08:12 LaLuSh wrote: What's up with all these analysis threads? An analysis should contain something more than the listing of a few easily obtainable facts/statistics.
everyone wants to feel special, so they create threads.
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MC said in Coppenhagen that Europe Terrans are superior to Korean Terrans.
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On April 25 2011 08:18 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:49 emc wrote: I think terran is doing so well in Korea because I feel personally that the terran race rewards those with the best mechanics more than the other races and those guys are pretty flawless when it comes to that. Terran is the best race when played flawless. Not so good w/ mistakes though. That would be Protoss, sir
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jinro also played on checkraise cuz i have a replay pack from jinro himself and checkraise was a T
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On April 25 2011 06:51 MechKing wrote: Btw, NaDa's win % is only 53% lol.
Its cuz he plays with only his mouse
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81+64+45+1 = 191
according to sc2 ranking the masters league is full.
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On April 25 2011 08:36 Like a Boss wrote: 81+64+45+1 = 191
according to sc2 ranking the masters league is full. Oops I meant 54 thanks.
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i feel like the more popular SC2 gets in Korea.. the less we can infer from Grandmaster.
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On April 25 2011 08:12 LaLuSh wrote: What's up with all these analysis threads? An analysis should contain something more than the listing of a few easily obtainable facts/statistics. Because actual analysis would consist of discussion of balance, which tends to lead people to getting banned.
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Why do so many GM terrans have ridiculously high ratios?
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Updated, sry I counted it out by hand lol really should've used the filter function...
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On April 25 2011 08:32 GobIin wrote:Its cuz he plays with only his mouse
This is only partly true. He is playing with only his mouse in his left hand while he does homework with his right.
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On April 25 2011 06:51 MechKing wrote: Btw, NaDa's win % is only 53% lol.
Now think that his main focus is University, and SC2 is his second main thing he focuses on. Now go check out his GSL results, and come back.
He doesn't even live in Team House.
It's sick that he actually does that good.
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On April 25 2011 06:49 emc wrote: I think terran is doing so well in Korea because I feel personally that the terran race rewards those with the best mechanics more than the other races and those guys are pretty flawless when it comes to that. lolol
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On April 25 2011 08:22 mTw|NarutO wrote: MC said in Coppenhagen that Europe Terrans are superior to Korean Terrans.
+ Show Spoiler +well he did just lose to one in tsl so that might have had an effect on his opinion
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On April 25 2011 09:03 Supernatural35 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:49 emc wrote: I think terran is doing so well in Korea because I feel personally that the terran race rewards those with the best mechanics more than the other races and those guys are pretty flawless when it comes to that. lolol
Why are you loling? It was like that in sc1 too. Honestly people need to understand zerg requires more game sense/timing knowledge than anything else (this includes drone and army balance). When you see someone like Mvp split his marines vs mass banelings and have like 90% of them survive? Tell me how that is not rewarding. Meanwhile his macro is still kicking and he's probably expanding. IMO terran does reward the best mechanics, while zerg rewards game sense and map control.
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On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/
Dude SeleCT has almost a 90% win rate:
http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/dSeleCT
Some people are just that good.
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On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?!
MVP said Terran is the weakest on the very large GSL maps.
There is only one very large GSL map in ladder.
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Wait...is that real Luxury?
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This isn't an analysis this is a list of facts, which are basically meaningless.
If the top 10 has 9 terrans, that's all that means. It doesn't speak to the relative balance of the game unless you can somehow link the two through logic, ie they are all using 5 racks reaper.
So this thread doesn't speak to balance, all it does is basically list sc2 ranks in a paragraph.
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On April 25 2011 08:22 mTw|NarutO wrote: MC said in Coppenhagen that Europe Terrans are superior to Korean Terrans.
Incorrect. You are referring to this video:
+ Show Spoiler +
Interviewer questions MC "What do you think of the level of European SC2 players?"
MC says: The terrans are strong, but the Protosses are a bit lacking in PvP, and there are also a lot of good zergs, so it'll be harder to beat them in the future.
Translator: "The European Terrans are pretty strong... compared to the Koreans, but he thinks the European Protoss are a lot like PvP( T/N? Hard to hear him) and the Zergs are getting better so he thinks it's going to hard in the near future to win other tournaments in Europe."
No where once does MC say "Korea" or "Korean" when he praises European SC2 players. Keep in mind he didn't drop a single game to a Terran in Copenhagen so I guess it was just lost in translation.
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Isn't analysis prohibited on this site? We can't infer that T is OP by this or we get banned. I think it is silly that balance discussions are so taboo but it is perfectly fine to conclude that all Z players are just plain worse at the game than T or P players (also without citing evidence). I guess I'm asking why these stats are NOT evidence of a disparity (not the scary word 1MB4L4NCE) between the races. There must be some reason for the discrepancy in the statistics... can anyone offer a PC answer that doesn't get us banned?
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I realized halfway through that its kind of hard to do meaningful analysis on just one set of data, aside from just turning percentages into imba cries.
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I'm surprised there's only one random in there. I saw plenty of randoms on the frontpage of SC2ranks from KR for a while. I guess their MMRs just weren't high enough or they missed out on promotion before it closed.
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On April 25 2011 09:22 novabossa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Dude SeleCT has almost a 90% win rate: http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/dSeleCTSome people are just that good.
90% on NA. I bet Select will have 50% win ratio on KR.
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this just in, ladder maps =/= tournament maps.
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How bout some analysis on why Zerg is doing so terrible ???
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On April 25 2011 13:13 sickoota wrote: I realized halfway through that its kind of hard to do meaningful analysis on just one set of data, aside from just turning percentages into imba cries.
I think the word you were looking for was statistics, not analysis.
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On April 25 2011 15:06 DarKcS wrote: How bout some analysis on why Zerg is doing so terrible ??? Master league contains only 24.6% Zerg players. Its a higher % than that in GM, and that % or lower in all other leagues, so there are way fewer Zergs within the entire scale of SC2.
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On April 25 2011 06:46 Esel wrote: big respekt to this one random player , <3 to you
Hell, yeah. I'm a random player myself so major respects from myself
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On April 25 2011 10:20 Awesomeness wrote: Wait...is that real Luxury?
I'm waiting for someone to ask/answer the same thing. =P
Although it most likely isn't, but I always get excited when I see a famous BW ID on the ladder. -_-
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On April 25 2011 14:59 bearhug wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 09:22 novabossa wrote:On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Dude SeleCT has almost a 90% win rate: http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/dSeleCTSome people are just that good. 90% on NA. I bet Select will have 50% win ratio on KR.
His European account is 23-3; 88.46%
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On April 25 2011 16:02 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 14:59 bearhug wrote:On April 25 2011 09:22 novabossa wrote:On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Dude SeleCT has almost a 90% win rate: http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/dSeleCTSome people are just that good. 90% on NA. I bet Select will have 50% win ratio on KR. His European account is 23-3; 88.46% european and NA aren't nearly close to KR
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On April 25 2011 08:55 Jambi wrote: Why do so many GM terrans have ridiculously high ratios?
becouse terran is the most consistant race atm imo, its easier to defend "gay shit" most rushes u defend with bunkers, u do not die to dts when u are not prepared, becouse u always are in some way, and terran vs terran actually involves skill so if u are the better player u win, not like pvp when there is build order luck involved, thats why terran is doing so well on the ladder but that doesnt really apply to anything else than laddder
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you're just making up stuff that can't be proven
in any case, ladder maps still probably favoring terran is the main reason
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one thing that should be pointed out is that fewer people play zerg in general which is probably why there are fewer of them in the top 200 but the fact that there are none in the top 10 also says zerg is weak on the ladder -_-
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On April 25 2011 09:06 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:22 mTw|NarutO wrote: MC said in Coppenhagen that Europe Terrans are superior to Korean Terrans. + Show Spoiler +well he did just lose to one in tsl so that might have had an effect on his opinion
+ Show Spoiler + and he also just lost to Polt, so ?
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On April 25 2011 16:02 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 14:59 bearhug wrote:On April 25 2011 09:22 novabossa wrote:On April 25 2011 07:03 andrewwiggin wrote: As of right now..
There is one player at an 80% fricken win rate.
27 Terran Luxury Wins 204 Losses50 Winrate 80.31%
Someone.. please explain. HOW!!!! =/ Dude SeleCT has almost a 90% win rate: http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/dSeleCTSome people are just that good. 90% on NA. I bet Select will have 50% win ratio on KR. His European account is 23-3; 88.46% Earlier in the thread it was posted that Dimaga has an 84% win ratio on EU and 56% on korea. He probably wouldn't be at 50% but he'd be nowhere near 90%.
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disappointed that FD is lazy as hell and isnt even in GM.... checking his match history he seems to only play before a tournament match..
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Terran have 24 people with greater than 60% win/loss Protoss have 12 people with greater than 60% win/loss Zerg have 10 people with greater than 60% win/loss
(removed the people with less than 50 wins)
16 out of 20 people in the top 20 are Terran, "Terran is the weakest race", cognitive dissonance much ?
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I love how each race picks out the statistics that's most convenient to them. Great comedy right there. Above is a great example of this.
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At least, zerg is not in this "war of imbalance"
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On April 25 2011 16:42 cozzE wrote: I love how each race picks out the statistics that's most convenient to them. Great comedy right there. Above is a great example of this. Is there any static you can pull that is convenient to Terran lol?
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On April 25 2011 16:45 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:42 cozzE wrote: I love how each race picks out the statistics that's most convenient to them. Great comedy right there. Above is a great example of this. Is there any static you can pull that is convenient to a race other than Terran lol?
Well, almost all the statistics seems convenient for zergs...
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On April 25 2011 07:23 HappyCakes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?! Cause playing in tournaments and on ladder is the same thing amirite? Seems to parallel tournaments too. Have a look ~ 40-45% in all GSLs is Terran and it's least played race among GM according to SC2ranks with Toss being first, then Zerg, then Terran. Normal distribution would have ~12P, 11Z, 9T of 32 not 10P, 8Z, 14T this GSL or 9P 8Z and 15T like last GSL. Almost every tournament Terran has higher disproportionate representation than the other two race despite being least played.
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On April 25 2011 16:47 Leavzou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:45 Dommk wrote:On April 25 2011 16:42 cozzE wrote: I love how each race picks out the statistics that's most convenient to them. Great comedy right there. Above is a great example of this. Is there any static you can pull that is convenient to a race other than Terran lol? Well, almost all the statistics seems convenient for zergs... Screwed up the wording, meant to say that is "is convenient to Terran"
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On April 25 2011 16:48 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:23 HappyCakes wrote:On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?! Cause playing in tournaments and on ladder is the same thing amirite? Seems to parallel tournaments too. Have a look ~ 40-45% in all GSLs is Terran and it's least played race among GM according to SC2ranks with Toss being first, then Zerg, then Terran. Normal distribution would have ~12P, 11Z, 9T of 32 not 10P, 8Z, 14T. Almost every tournament Terran has higher disproportionate representation than the other two race despite being least played. why would you compare across all GSLs when we're talking about current balance
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On April 25 2011 06:37 GhostKorean wrote: Wasn't there some explanation for Terrans doing well on the ladder that went something like Terrans focus on early game aggression and therefore mass more games in the same amount of time than their zerg and terran counterparts so their ranks increase the most quickly? Does this still hold true, especially with MVP claiming Terran is currently "the weakest race"
Maybe you are right. It is possible to check this, just by looking at the number of games Terrans in the top 10 played compared to zergs.
*but after checking them, I don't see a significant disparity. In fact Zergs tends to play a little more... so I think your theory isn't the explanation, but good theory nevertheless
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On April 25 2011 16:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:48 tdt wrote:On April 25 2011 07:23 HappyCakes wrote:On April 25 2011 07:19 BobbyBrown wrote: why the heck does mvp think that terran is the worst race atm although they are performing that well on korean ladder these days?! Cause playing in tournaments and on ladder is the same thing amirite? Seems to parallel tournaments too. Have a look ~ 40-45% in all GSLs is Terran and it's least played race among GM according to SC2ranks with Toss being first, then Zerg, then Terran. Normal distribution would have ~12P, 11Z, 9T of 32 not 10P, 8Z, 14T. Almost every tournament Terran has higher disproportionate representation than the other two race despite being least played. why would you compare across all GSLs when we're talking about current balance I didn't - those were numbers from this GSL, while Terran dominates all in numbers represented.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_LG_Cinema_3D_Global_StarCraft_II_League_May/Code_S
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On April 25 2011 16:53 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:37 GhostKorean wrote: Wasn't there some explanation for Terrans doing well on the ladder that went something like Terrans focus on early game aggression and therefore mass more games in the same amount of time than their zerg and terran counterparts so their ranks increase the most quickly? Does this still hold true, especially with MVP claiming Terran is currently "the weakest race" Maybe you are right. It is possible to check this, just by looking at the number of games Terrans in the top 10 played compared to zergs. *but after checking them, I don't see a significant disparity. In fact Zergs tends to play a little more... so I think your theory isn't the explanation, but good theory nevertheless Don't think that is true.
Check out the number of games played when you rank the ladder by race. On average the top Zergs have played more games 0o Amount of games played for Protoss is similar to Terran
I don't think you can find anything that speaks poorly of Terran from the Korean GrandMaster Ladder considering 50%~ of the top 100 consists of Terran
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Random - 1 Player in Grandmaser. 0.5% of the total
Fuck yeah!
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On April 25 2011 11:08 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:22 mTw|NarutO wrote: MC said in Coppenhagen that Europe Terrans are superior to Korean Terrans. Incorrect. You are referring to this video: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3TP8QVaHuc Interviewer questions MC "What do you think of the level of European SC2 players?" MC says: The terrans are strong, but the Protosses are a bit lacking in PvP, and there are also a lot of good zergs, so it'll be harder to beat them in the future. Translator: "The European Terrans are pretty strong... compared to the Koreans, but he thinks the European Protoss are a lot like PvP( T/N? Hard to hear him) and the Zergs are getting better so he thinks it's going to hard in the near future to win other tournaments in Europe." No where once does MC say "Korea" or "Korean" when he praises European SC2 players. Keep in mind he didn't drop a single game to a Terran in Copenhagen so I guess it was just lost in translation. LOL Everyone is lacking in PvP vs you MC. I'd put Nani or Ra against any Korean Toss though.
Anyway that's cool it seems MC does really respect foreigners
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On April 25 2011 16:24 rickybobby wrote: one thing that should be pointed out is that fewer people play zerg in general which is probably why there are fewer of them in the top 200 but the fact that there are none in the top 10 also says zerg is weak on the ladder -_- Thats not true. Noobs don't play Zerg much but at the top it's 2nd most race played.
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ah! I understood now! MVP was right the terran is the weakest race! :D
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The best players out there don't have time to own the ladder but practise their asses of in custom matches. Therefore its obviously that there are not that much super mega gosu proplayer, so highly ranked, on the ladder.
And we cannot judge player skill from their ladder record. To really know which player is better of the 2, you should organize a bo21, with a 2h pause after 3 matches, and after the 7nth match a 24h pause.
Because there are so many T player at the top doesn't mean that T is OP or something. Its just that offensive timings are much much easier to find out then defensive timings. Over time, the other races will be masters of defence, and then again, stalement will occur for the terran race.
OP should not worry and analyzing the ladder is obselet imo
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On April 25 2011 15:06 DarKcS wrote: How bout some analysis on why Zerg is doing so terrible ??? A moving with muta/ling(s)/roach/hydra etc instead of using best unit in game, infestor. and microing while other races micro the hell out of their units (FF, stim, seige, blink, grav beam, etc etc etc)
Over droning at beginning instead of planting a few spines.
Terrible scouting. Worst scout in the game.
Just my opinion I could be wrong.
I have some basis for it though. Last few weeks I've been seeing much different play (and getting owned) and tide is about to change with mass infestor and Spanishwa type builds. But still Zerg need a decent scout.
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thx for your analysis, quite interessting
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On April 25 2011 16:35 Dommk wrote:Terran have 24 people with greater than 60% win/loss Protoss have 12 people with greater than 60% win/loss Zerg have 10 people with greater than 60% win/loss (removed the people with less than 50 wins) 16 out of 20 people in the top 20 are Terran, "Terran is the weakest race", cognitive dissonance much ? I hate when people take ladder statistics and use them to make conclusions. There is a greater number of terrans on ladder and furthermore, the map pool right now is still good for terrans. MVP was talking about the GSL Maps being unfavored towards terran due to their size and if I recall correctly, the map pool on ladder only has one GSL Map.
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On April 25 2011 19:05 Midgetman101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:35 Dommk wrote:Terran have 24 people with greater than 60% win/loss Protoss have 12 people with greater than 60% win/loss Zerg have 10 people with greater than 60% win/loss (removed the people with less than 50 wins) 16 out of 20 people in the top 20 are Terran, "Terran is the weakest race", cognitive dissonance much ? I hate when people take ladder statistics and use them to make conclusions. There is a greater number of terrans on ladder and furthermore, the map pool right now is still good for terrans. MVP was talking about the GSL Maps being unfavored towards terran due to their size and if I recall correctly, the map pool on ladder only has one GSL Map. And even that one is a modified ladder version.
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On April 25 2011 19:05 Midgetman101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:35 Dommk wrote:Terran have 24 people with greater than 60% win/loss Protoss have 12 people with greater than 60% win/loss Zerg have 10 people with greater than 60% win/loss (removed the people with less than 50 wins) 16 out of 20 people in the top 20 are Terran, "Terran is the weakest race", cognitive dissonance much ? I hate when people take ladder statistics and use them to make conclusions. There is a greater number of terrans on ladder and furthermore, the map pool right now is still good for terrans. MVP was talking about the GSL Maps being unfavored towards terran due to their size and if I recall correctly, the map pool on ladder only has one GSL Map.
He's not "using them to make conclusions" - he's using them to dismiss others'. If I were to post "man, I am certain protoss is the worst of the three races" wouldn't you immediately ask me why protoss is winning a lot of tournaments lately? It's the same thing. To say "my race is imbalanced, and here's a statistic to 'prove' it" is one thing. To say "don't complain about imbalance when many, many terrans are clearly being very successful right now (even in tournaments which use a lot more than one GSL map)" is completely another.
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Didn t MKP finish 1st, 2nd and rumoured 3rd on the Korean ladder in Season 1 ??
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On April 26 2011 00:09 Ssoulle wrote: Didn t MKP finish 1st, 2nd and rumoured 3rd on the Korean ladder in Season 1 ?? yes.
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