About some troubles (SlayerS_Jessica) - Page 34
Forum Index > SC2 General |
Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. | ||
kKagari
Australia84 Posts
| ||
toadyy
United Kingdom179 Posts
| ||
Versioned
United Kingdom73 Posts
Girls are incapable of achieving the same ability/skill level of males with the same resources males use. And you're there to help this female gamer who is in diamond league get to a high-competitive level to so she has the capability of achieving wins off top MALE gamers. So what girls can't actually achieve a high level of skill without a pro team picking them up and training them whilst their at their peak in terms of gender?? You clearly chose Eve JUST because she's a girl and it is highly unlikely you would give a male the same opportunity. (If a male gamer knocked on your door and said, "Hey I just beat a league which mainly consists of Silver and Gold players and am very dedicated can I join the team?") and that statement is sexist TOWARDS Female gamers it's not helping the E-sports scene at all, I can guarantee you if a female just like a male put her mind/time and passion into this game she would produce results like any other professional gamers that have used there time grinding the ladder and winning mini tournaments to make a name for themselves. You've chose the wrong time to do this and it would have been MUCH better if a female gamer that is actually at a high level due to her own hard-work arose in the competitive scene and made a name for female gamers by actually achieving results. Rather than a girl whose results at the game currently have shown no capability in competing at a professional level of gaming in Starcraft 2. Haters gonna hate | ||
RealQ
1120 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:40 katzby wrote: Speaking as a female gamer, recruiting a person like Eve is insulting because it's assuming that women are too timid to make a name for themselves, to play for themselves, to train themselves, and they need encouragement in the form of a figurehead like Eve as a some sort of helping hand to get themselves reaching higher skill levels of Starcraft. This is equivalent to saying that women cannot hope to achieve the same skill level as men in games..... separating women from men in a male-dominated scene like Starcraft. Anti-fanaticism is stupid, but you have to examine the factors that are fueling it. Even though it spiraled out of control with the immature people shopping pornographic images and personally attacking Slayers Jessica, you have to take the fact that Eve was recruited because she is a girl and she is 'pretty'. I am disgusted and amused at this bit. I'm amused because it's obviously a Korean who started the whole mess because of something superficial like outside appearance. I am disgusted because I have long since held the belief that with the growing popularity of Starcraft, a prominent female gamer would arrive on the scene. I am sorely disappointed in the fact that the status was given to this Eve. Eve may be pretty to look at, but other than that she is nothing special. Even with the coaching and training of the SlayerS team, she was given a helping hand, and did not achieve anything on her own to reach her position. When all the fanfare has died down, and if Eve has not played up to her potential, she will be dismissed and will even be a crushing blow towards developing genuine female interest in Starcraft. With that being said, I'm waiting for the true Eve of Starcraft to appear, the one who actually worked her way up to the top with blood and tears. This false Eve is nothing more but a awakening herald of greatness to come. 100% agree with all of this. very well said. | ||
Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
If you had a daughter/sister/best friend and a group of people were photoshopping her face onto pornographic material and spreading it around the web I am sure you would also want to take any and every action that was available to you. SlayerS has my support and <3. Thanks Jessica for bringing us the rest of the story. Cheering for you in Texas, USA ♥ | ||
rauk
United States2228 Posts
| ||
shell
Portugal2722 Posts
I feel people hide behind their keyboards and shit all over other people. Gl to boxer and friends | ||
mindspike
Canada1902 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:26 Catacrux wrote: Affirmative Action (SlayerS) vs Anti-Affirmative Action (Destiny) SlayerS wants to get more female gamers into the professional scene by recruiting a female. <--- Affirmative Action POV. ^ I see nothing wrong with that, just my opinion. Destiny's point is "That's sexist." <--- Anti-Affirmative Action POV. I believe the post has a bit lost in translation due to cultural differences. Actually when you think about it, what SlayerS did is not even affirmative action because Eve is not even close to being the best Female in Korea. I'm fairly certain that there are dozens of females in Korea who play beyond Diamond level. | ||
Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
Who, especially in korea, would do it though? Wait and cross your figures for another TossGirl? | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:42 Deleuzebwo wrote: I won't get into an Af-Action/Anti-Af-Action debate here. I should have been more clear though - that statement comes with the (hopeful) assumption that Jessica ACTUALLY meant to say that Eve could become as good as any of their male players. I am very hopeful that this is the result of overzealous translation. I hope so too, but her not being good enough to compete pops up a few times and I doubt the same point would be mistranslated in the same way multiple times. | ||
toadyy
United Kingdom179 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:44 Versioned wrote: Ironically Jessica I find this thread incredibly sexist I'll keep this post to the point by saying that what you're basically stating is Girls are incapable of achieving the same ability/skill level of males with the same resources males use. And you're there to help this female gamer who is in diamond league get to a high-competitive level to so she has the capability of achieving wins off top MALE gamers. So what girls can't actually achieve a high level of skill without a pro team picking them up and training them whilst their at their peak in terms of gender?? You clearly chose Eve JUST because she's a girl and it is highly unlikely you would give a male the same opportunity. (If a male gamer knocked on your door and said, "Hey I just beat a league which mainly consists of Silver and Gold players and am very dedicated can I join the team?") and that statement is sexist TOWARDS Female gamers it's not helping the E-sports scene at all, I can guarantee you if a female just like a male put her mind/time and passion into this game she would produce results like any other professional gamers that have used there time grinding the ladder and winning mini tournaments to make a name for themselves. You've chose the wrong time to do this and it would have been MUCH better if a female gamer that is actually at a high level due to her own hard-work arose in the competitive scene and made a name for female gamers by actually achieving results. Rather than a girl whose results at the game currently have shown no capability in competing at a professional level of gaming in Starcraft 2. Haters gonna hate I agree 100%. They have not taken in any low level korean gamers and give them this special treatment. All they want is someone with tits for there team to show on the television screen. Which is just a terrible thing for the actual development of the game. | ||
ForeverAzerG
United Kingdom101 Posts
| ||
iamlafore
Japan40 Posts
Yes: they recruited a girl largely because she is a girl, but this is not necessarily a decision motivated by sexism and worthy of outrage. Where I grew up, when it came time to apply to college, the entrance requirements were explicitly different for certain groups of the population. Everyone here with the ridiculous argument amounting to: "they have the exact same opportunities to improve themselves" are being blind to the world outside of a computer, sc2 account and Internet. Yes if we locked a girl and a boy in a room (-.-) they might both improve, but the pressure put on a boy in Korea wanting to practice 12 hours a day and on a girl might be significantly different. Because of the way history played out, a boy might easily find other boy friends who shares his SC2 interest while the girl might be hard pressed to even talk to her friends about it. To expand on my parallel, even though we all had access to the same public schools where I grew up, white families had been favoured by historical events and could thus AFFORD to send their kids to private school (as well as creating more stable environments to foster learning). If everyone were judged by the same stick in this world, the people outside this cozy white circle might be quite capable but their grades took a hit because of bad environment, 2nd rate teachers, and a family history not inclusive of academic pursuit. The universities rightly take this into account to try encourage participation and to negate those social factors to level the playing field. Think long and hard about how gaming has developed and whether a girl REALLY has the same opportunities as guys to just devote a lot of time to it and STILL have a family/social life where she can express these interests. Love, T (Oh and a final thought, where I grew up the only people who ever got outraged at the differences in college requirements were the white people who had benefit from years of repressive policies... just a thought.) | ||
iLikeYourStylez
United States23 Posts
Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other. I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play. Best wishes to Slayers | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:45 shell wrote: This is weird but imagine if it was a picture of your sister photoshopped into a porn scene and then it as spread all over the net and later to your family, friends, work or campus.. I feel people hide behind their keyboards and shit all over other people. Gl to boxer and friends I haven't seen anyone here arguing that the bullying that happened towards eve wasn't fucked up. The argument going on is to whether she should have been added to the team when she is clearly not at a pro level and it seems was only accepted because she was a girl. | ||
vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
| ||
Deleuzebwo
72 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:50 iamlafore wrote: I've heard the argument that "if it was a male then he wouldn't have gotten a second look" and all the cute comparisons to other scenarios but I feel there's one comparison these people fail to draw. Yes: they recruited a girl largely because she is a girl, but this is not necessarily a decision motivated by sexism and worthy of outrage. Where I grew up, when it came time to apply to college, the entrance requirements were explicitly different for certain groups of the population. Everyone here with the ridiculous argument amounting to: "they have the exact same opportunities to improve themselves" are being blind to the world outside of a computer, sc2 account and Internet. Yes if we locked a girl and a boy in a room (-.-) they might both improve, but the pressure put on a boy in Korea wanting to practice 12 hours a day and on a girl might be significantly different. Because of the way history played out, a boy might easily find other boy friends who shares his SC2 interest while the girl might be hard pressed to even talk to her friends about it. To expand on my parallel, even though we all had access to the same public schools where I grew up, white families had been favoured by historical events and could thus AFFORD to send their kids to private school (as well as creating more stable environments to foster learning). If everyone were judged by the same stick in this world, the people outside this cozy white circle might be quite capable but their grades took a hit because of bad environment, 2nd rate teachers, and a family history not inclusive of academic pursuit. The universities rightly take this into account to try encourage participation and to negate those social factors to level the playing field. Think long and hard about how gaming has developed and whether a girl REALLY has the same opportunities as guys to just devote a lot of time to it and STILL have a family/social life where she can express these interests. Love, T (Oh and a final thought, where I grew up the only people who ever got outraged at the differences in college requirements were the white people who had benefit from years of repressive policies... just a thought.) I personally am not arguing against AA type policies. Often times they make sense for the very reasons you posted. But please reread those first few paragraphs closely - Jessica is not couching this in AA terms. Rather, it is wrapped in terms of entertainment and implications that even with possibly deserved extra help Jessica wasn't intended to be a GSL player. Still hoping for overzealous translation. | ||
RevOrchid
Canada68 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote: I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is... Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other. I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play. Best wishes to Slayers Great point made in your second paragraph; e-sports is, like any other sport, for entertainment purposes, and it is very possible that having a female progamer will bring much more viewers to the audience (being the starcraft community and all...) | ||
toadyy
United Kingdom179 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote: I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is... Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other. I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play. Best wishes to Slayers The problem is she hasn't shown anything, she is undeserving of a spot in slayers because she is not a good player. I don't care if she can improve, they could of taken in anyone and they would improve in the environment team SlayerS has. You missed the whole point surrounding this argument... | ||
Versioned
United Kingdom73 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote: I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is... Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other. I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play. Best wishes to Slayers I don't know whether you know this but the recruitment policies of most professional Starcraft II teams is not "You're Diamond and Female You're in" She is not a good player in comparison with professional players it is undeserving for her to be on team SlayerS, she is in the team for her gender? In my opinion that's outrageous to females more than males. | ||
| ||