tl:dr How does a normal day look for progamers going to school?
Sorry for bad english, not my native lanugage
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SomeONEx
Sweden641 Posts
tl:dr How does a normal day look for progamers going to school? Sorry for bad english, not my native lanugage | ||
Philipd122
Australia776 Posts
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
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SEA KarMa
Australia452 Posts
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
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Noocta
France12574 Posts
Sound weird because if parting goes to school still, I don't even want to imagine him fulltime. | ||
masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
They drop out of school to play starcraft. Which is why a lot of parents disown their child if they try to become progamers. Education is brutal in Korea so parents try their best to make their kids smart enough for a good university. Progaming is not that so it often ends in fustration. | ||
HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:38 Noocta wrote: I read Parting talking about school on Twitter, like him being tired of going to school and stuff. Sound weird because if parting goes to school still, I don't even want to imagine him fulltime. Honestly, him going to school just feels impossible right now... | ||
poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:38 Noocta wrote: I read Parting talking about school on Twitter, like him being tired of going to school and stuff. Sound weird because if parting goes to school still, I don't even want to imagine him fulltime. What hes not even full time and hes that good? Imagine him when he finishes his studies, how good will he be? | ||
ElusoryX
Singapore2047 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:44 poorcloud wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:38 Noocta wrote: I read Parting talking about school on Twitter, like him being tired of going to school and stuff. Sound weird because if parting goes to school still, I don't even want to imagine him fulltime. What hes not even full time and hes that good? Imagine him when he finishes his studies, how good will he be? that's why I (and many others) don't think he is schooling now. | ||
scsnow
Slovenia515 Posts
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Firesilver
United Kingdom1190 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:44 poorcloud wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:38 Noocta wrote: I read Parting talking about school on Twitter, like him being tired of going to school and stuff. Sound weird because if parting goes to school still, I don't even want to imagine him fulltime. What hes not even full time and hes that good? Imagine him when he finishes his studies, how good will he be? Wow. Yeah I can imagine he'd be quite the machine if he was to dedicate that time to even more practice.. | ||
ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. | ||
Tidus Mino
United Kingdom1108 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. | ||
Account252508
3454 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
Though they definitely don't advertise about that. | ||
bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
However, a lot of Korean pro-gamers have stopped/put a pause on their schooling. We seem to forget how young most of these guys are. | ||
InfusedTT.DaZe
Romania693 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock | ||
DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:24 Eufouria wrote: Leenock doesn't go to school any more. I guess Maru must unless school leaving age in Korea is 14. That is íncorrect. Leenock still goes to school . He say he doesn't really have time to study though so his grade's aren't all too good (but he is still passing the course). But he still goes to school. This is his last year. | ||
Mayd
Finland251 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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scsnow
Slovenia515 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. Nerchio is on fire lately and he won Leenock 2:0 in Ironsquid Anyway my point was that there are players that are top 50 in region and are attending school. Of course skillwise top 50 Koreans are much better. | ||
bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:32 DrPandaPhD wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:24 Eufouria wrote: Leenock doesn't go to school any more. I guess Maru must unless school leaving age in Korea is 14. That is íncorrect. Leenock still goes to school . He say he doesn't really have time to study though so his grade's aren't all too good (but he is still passing the course). But he still goes to school. This is his last year. Grades are very iffy in Korea. What's more important are your exam scores and how well you do on your interviews (for college acceptance). To say he is "passing" means, he a) hasn't quit school and/or b) hasn't been kicked out. Just showing up will get you a "passing" grade. Thats why a lot of parents put much more emphasis on post-school studies (academies, private tutors, etc). because those are what's really going to help you get into a good college. In reality basic schooling is there to "teach" you the basics, and make sure you're not socially retarded. | ||
Xarles
459 Posts
1hr35m in. http://www.twitch.tv/iplliveu/b/314371855 Interviewer also says that there's a special school for gamers, where they're more lenient and help them with their homework due to being pro-gamers, granted Maru doesn't go to one of those it would seem. His school is probably understandable of his job as a pro-gamer. | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock haha, nice joke | ||
Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock I don't know if I'd put Lucifron on the same level as Nerchio. Nerchio's play has been much more impressive imo. And I don't think Parting is still in school. | ||
Account252508
3454 Posts
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Saiton
Sweden467 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. | ||
taitanik
Latvia231 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. i think he will be 10 times happier than a lot of people who get education by force and work in a job they dont enjoy | ||
Mayd
Finland251 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. Most people won't be successful and Koreans don't make a lot of money by streaming. And as far as I know esports' popularity is only decreasing in Korea. You can maybe be happy for couple years but after that there is over 30 years ahead. Good luck with that. | ||
skyflyfish
Canada499 Posts
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e4e5nf3
Canada599 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. Only a small percentage of people will achieve the success you are talking about, the rest will have a lot of catching up to do education-wise when their progaming careers are over. We hear the success stories and assume it applies to everyone when in reality it doesn't. | ||
imperator-xy
Germany1366 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. right now they are living their dreams, i dont know how this is supposed to be a bad thing | ||
Zedrewo
Sweden12 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:57 e4e5nf3 wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. Only a small percentage of people will achieve the success you are talking about, the rest will have a lot of catching up to do education-wise when their progaming careers are over. We hear the success stories and assume it applies to everyone when in reality it doesn't. It's a once in a lifetime experience to go fulltime progamer. If you realize after a year that you won't get into the spotlight, I think most changes there future plans. | ||
whiterabbit
2675 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. I love it how you spent time to write that, you even used "narrow-minded" card, but you didn't give a single example of what lucrative can Korean guy without education do after he quits pro-gaming. | ||
Superneenja
United States154 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:02 whiterabbit wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. I love it how you spent time to write that, you even used "narrow-minded" card, but you didn't give a single example of what lucrative can Korean guy without education do after he quits pro-gaming. Start their own team, become a coach, work in the industry? I mean who really cares? Its their lives and I love how people come on here looking in from the outside and judge them. I'm sure if you had the opportunity you would take it too... The top SC personalities probably make more money than a lot of us, it's just sad we got people coming to comment on the forums just to judge people or make some petty condescending remarks. Maybe they feel sad for us, because some of our futures = working at a job you don't enjoy, while they are getting paid for what they love to do. | ||
LucidityDark
United Kingdom139 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. | ||
Paraietta
United Kingdom130 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive | ||
Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:50 taitanik wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. i think he will be 10 times happier than a lot of people who get education by force and work in a job they dont enjoy This. I mean, I'm really glad that I have a college degree, but I'd much rather be a progamer right now. | ||
Chytilova
United States790 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive This guy knows what he is talking about. | ||
Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. I'd argue that being among the best in a competetive field like progaming gives you the tools to be good at anything. It's just going to take a lot longer since you'll have a late start. It's not like your life is done if you don't roll into university from the get go. | ||
-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:36 Saechiis wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. I'd argue that being among the best in a competetive field like progaming gives you the tools to be good at anything. It's just going to take a lot longer since you'll have a late start. It's not like your life is done if you don't roll into university from the get go. Plus anyone who has been on a sponsored team is likely to have had some contact with sponsor companies - and connections are one of if not the most important factor when trying to get a job for which you are at least minimally qualified. | ||
andrewlt
United States7648 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:36 Saechiis wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. I'd argue that being among the best in a competetive field like progaming gives you the tools to be good at anything. It's just going to take a lot longer since you'll have a late start. It's not like your life is done if you don't roll into university from the get go. The minimum salary for NBA players is higher than what Flash makes. Most are bankrupt within 5 years of retiring. The competitiveness of these players in playing games works against them when it comes to investing their money. And the vast majority won't earn a decent salary after their gaming career is over. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364 | ||
skirmisheR
Sweden451 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive I don't understand, there is nothing stopping progamers from getting an education when they quit SC2. Worst case scenario they wasted some years having fun, but it doesn't stop them from just "resuming their life" if you see my point. They are just a little older, that's everything EDIT: This is exactly like going pro in a sport or anything else, should we say that every athlete is wasting his/her life as well? | ||
KristofferAG
Norway25711 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:02 whiterabbit wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. I love it how you spent time to write that, you even used "narrow-minded" card, but you didn't give a single example of what lucrative can Korean guy without education do after he quits pro-gaming. Life isn't all about money, mate. He's able to live his dream, he's popular and famous for doing something he loves, they won't stop being famous any time soon if they manage to accomplish something, they make a whole load of friends, they get to travel and see the world, and they get paid for it. Some might even save some of that money because they know they'll need it later. If not, going back to studying isn't a big issue, is it? | ||
LucidityDark
United Kingdom139 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive So you think somebody who may want to become a progamer one day should just stop because you're not going to be rolling in money? Like somebody else has said, the world isn't all about money. | ||
Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:51 skirmisheR wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive I don't understand, there is nothing stopping progamers from getting an education when they quit SC2. Worst case scenario they wasted some years having fun, but it doesn't stop them from just "resuming their life" if you see my point. They are just a little older, that's everything EDIT: This is exactly like going pro in a sport or anything else, should we say that every athlete is wasting his/her life as well? You do realize to go pro in many sports you need to go through college first. Their degrees are usually worthless, or they drop out one year early, but at least they have something. It also helps that their minimum payscale is 6 figures. | ||
TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:51 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:36 Saechiis wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. I'd argue that being among the best in a competetive field like progaming gives you the tools to be good at anything. It's just going to take a lot longer since you'll have a late start. It's not like your life is done if you don't roll into university from the get go. The minimum salary for NBA players is higher than what Flash makes. Most are bankrupt within 5 years of retiring. The competitiveness of these players in playing games works against them when it comes to investing their money. And the vast majority won't earn a decent salary after their gaming career is over. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364 I really don't think the comparison of NBA players to Korean StarCraft players is very good. A better example is to look at the retired BW progamers and what they do now. | ||
DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On April 17 2012 00:20 superbabosheki wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:51 skirmisheR wrote: On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive I don't understand, there is nothing stopping progamers from getting an education when they quit SC2. Worst case scenario they wasted some years having fun, but it doesn't stop them from just "resuming their life" if you see my point. They are just a little older, that's everything EDIT: This is exactly like going pro in a sport or anything else, should we say that every athlete is wasting his/her life as well? You do realize to go pro in many sports you need to go through college first. Their degrees are usually worthless, or they drop out one year early, but at least they have something. It also helps that their minimum payscale is 6 figures. You do realize that the reason DongRaeGu choose Team MVP in the start was because they support him studying at the same time as he plays? You do realize both Polt is just taking a break from the biggest university in Seoul? You do realize Stephano is planning to resume his life and go study? FXO (the team) has said that they heavily support their players getting an education at the same time as they play. They aren't going all-in pro-gamers for the rest of their lives. They have a followup plan. Pros do it as long as they enjoy it, and that's what's most important. iNcontroL said it perfectly : "You don't become a pro-gamer to become rich, you do it because you love the game." If you could get paid to do something you love (talking about anything here) and are already good at, why not? That's what everybody is looking for, right? Can't see how spending 1-5 years to do something you love to be "throwing away your life". Doesn't make sense not to live for fun. | ||
Falcor
Canada894 Posts
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oxxo
988 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive Except there's one key difference. They're getting paid. | ||
Account252508
3454 Posts
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Darkthorn
Romania912 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock how comes there is no way nerchio 2-0 leenock | ||
Account252508
3454 Posts
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On April 17 2012 01:25 Darkthorn wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock how comes there is no way nerchio 2-0 leenock This feels like such a troll post. Nerchio and Lucifron are not 5x better than Maru. Maru is Code S and still in it, beating several top players. Also manage to all-kill StarTale in a KSL. What had Lucifron done again? Leenock won Providence, got 2nd in a GSL. Still in Code S and beat MMA (The TvZ beast) and NaDa to get out of his group. Nerchio is good but he's no Leenock. A player is determined not only in a straight up 1v1, but in how they prove themselves during several occasions. Let's pretend Leenock's ZvZ is horrible but he has 100% win vs terran/toss. And Nerchio's ZvZ is godlike but has 0% win vs terran/toss. Yeah Leenock would still be the better player. Even if he would lose to Nerchio every single time they faced eachother. So please, before you state something as ridicolous as Lucifron being 5x better than Maru, think for at least 5 seconds and you will realize you are wrong... | ||
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock So Nerchio and lucifron are Code S Ro16 level? More jokes please :}} | ||
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? being top european and being top kor while going to school is a totaly different thing. | ||
Bkennedy
United States266 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote: On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. Haha, dream more. | ||
TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. You do realize that Naniwa is Code S Top16 right? Or did I miss that this thread has turned in to a troll thread? | ||
Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. Tell me that again when Nerchio actually manages top place top 3 at an major event and when he actually manages to beat a korean at an offline event ok? | ||
Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive So you think not enjoying life is preferred to following your dream? This mentality is incredibly fucking depressing. And it's so common. Do what you want, fuck people that think you need a 9-5 job to live "properly." | ||
Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
Leenock is obviously leagues ahead of all foreign ZvT. His ZvP is not good, ZvZ pretty decent. | ||
KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock Is this a troll post or are you on some really amazing hallucinogenics? | ||
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:04 TheSilverfox wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. You do realize that Naniwa is Code S Top16 right? Or did I miss that this thread has turned in to a troll thread? Yes, if you werent socially retarded you would know that i believe naniwa shouldnt be in code s ro16, he had an incredibly easy group that nerchio could of won as well. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:07 Eee wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. Tell me that again when Nerchio actually manages top place top 3 at an major event and when he actually manages to beat a korean at an offline event ok? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCAN_Invitational_2 He won SCAN invitational, which had most of the best European players. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TwitchTV_European_Invitational 3rd at twitchtv European invitational, which also had most of the best players from Europe. | ||
TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:18 Josh_rakoons wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:04 TheSilverfox wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. You do realize that Naniwa is Code S Top16 right? Or did I miss that this thread has turned in to a troll thread? Yes, if you werent socially retarded you would know that i believe naniwa shouldnt be in code s ro16, he had an incredibly easy group that nerchio could of won as well. Can you please specify how I should know this opinion of yours by just reading your comment in this thread? | ||
stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:18 Josh_rakoons wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:04 TheSilverfox wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. You do realize that Naniwa is Code S Top16 right? Or did I miss that this thread has turned in to a troll thread? Yes, if you werent socially retarded you would know that i believe naniwa shouldnt be in code s ro16, he had an incredibly easy group that nerchio could of won as well. You're special aren't ya | ||
Shiori
3815 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:31 stormchaser wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:18 Josh_rakoons wrote: On April 17 2012 02:04 TheSilverfox wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. You do realize that Naniwa is Code S Top16 right? Or did I miss that this thread has turned in to a troll thread? Yes, if you werent socially retarded you would know that i believe naniwa shouldnt be in code s ro16, he had an incredibly easy group that nerchio could of won as well. You're special aren't ya Actually, he has a pretty good point. Even Naniwa seems to acknowledge his relative weakness compared to top Koreans. He beat Ryung, who has horrid TvP, and Puzzle, who has horrible PvP (in a matchup that's already a coinflip in some regards). Is he good? Obviously he's good, but this doesn't erase his 1-12 code A record. | ||
AKomrade
United States582 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. Better to have five years doing something you absolutely love and then leave than struggle through something you can't stand and resign yourself to a job you don't want. | ||
Sh1FTy_
32 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:21 Josh_rakoons wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:07 Eee wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. Tell me that again when Nerchio actually manages top place top 3 at an major event and when he actually manages to beat a korean at an offline event ok? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCAN_Invitational_2 He won SCAN invitational, which had most of the best European players. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TwitchTV_European_Invitational 3rd at twitchtv European invitational, which also had most of the best players from Europe. Wow! Look at those major tournaments! | ||
Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:41 Sh1FTy_ wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:21 Josh_rakoons wrote: On April 17 2012 02:07 Eee wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. Tell me that again when Nerchio actually manages top place top 3 at an major event and when he actually manages to beat a korean at an offline event ok? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCAN_Invitational_2 He won SCAN invitational, which had most of the best European players. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TwitchTV_European_Invitational 3rd at twitchtv European invitational, which also had most of the best players from Europe. Wow! Look at those major tournaments! Look at those koreans as well | ||
mki
Poland882 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:41 Sh1FTy_ wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:21 Josh_rakoons wrote: On April 17 2012 02:07 Eee wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. Tell me that again when Nerchio actually manages top place top 3 at an major event and when he actually manages to beat a korean at an offline event ok? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCAN_Invitational_2 He won SCAN invitational, which had most of the best European players. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TwitchTV_European_Invitational 3rd at twitchtv European invitational, which also had most of the best players from Europe. Wow! Look at those major tournaments! He won Battle in Berlin (over Stephano, Kas, Ret, Goody, TLO, Grubby and Socke)... Placed second in IPL 2 (not even going to try to name the players).... Then in HomeStory Cup IV he advanced from his first group in first place (over Socke, iNcontroL, Thorzain) then advanced from his second group ALSO in first place (over viOlet, HerO, Naama). He was knocked out in a single elimination bracket by the champion, MC. Only match he lost... Any doubts how good he is? All these were major events... | ||
OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. Boxer. Dat money. | ||
yakitate304
United States655 Posts
I feel old. | ||
canikizu
4860 Posts
If you make that kind of money like MC, Stephano, you can just buy 3,4 Domino franchise stores and live comfortably with income ~$6000-8000/month. Hell, as young as Leenock is right now, with the money from winning tournaments, he can live more comfortably than average salary man if he knows what to do with the money. | ||
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
On April 17 2012 02:49 mki wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 02:41 Sh1FTy_ wrote: On April 17 2012 02:21 Josh_rakoons wrote: On April 17 2012 02:07 Eee wrote: On April 17 2012 01:43 Josh_rakoons wrote: Nerchio isnt code s ro16 level, but he is definitely as good as naniwa. Tell me that again when Nerchio actually manages top place top 3 at an major event and when he actually manages to beat a korean at an offline event ok? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCAN_Invitational_2 He won SCAN invitational, which had most of the best European players. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TwitchTV_European_Invitational 3rd at twitchtv European invitational, which also had most of the best players from Europe. Wow! Look at those major tournaments! He won Battle in Berlin (over Stephano, Kas, Ret, Goody, TLO, Grubby and Socke)... Placed second in IPL 2 (not even going to try to name the players).... Then in HomeStory Cup IV he advanced from his first group in first place (over Socke, iNcontroL, Thorzain) then advanced from his second group ALSO in first place (over viOlet, HerO, Naama). He was knocked out in a single elimination bracket by the champion, MC. Only match he lost... Any doubts how good he is? All these were major events... Well researched, it seems as if i missed the best ones. | ||
IMoperator
4476 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:44 poorcloud wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:38 Noocta wrote: I read Parting talking about school on Twitter, like him being tired of going to school and stuff. Sound weird because if parting goes to school still, I don't even want to imagine him fulltime. What hes not even full time and hes that good? Imagine him when he finishes his studies, how good will he be? Sometimes having different activities in your daily life can lead to improvements in your specialized activities. Basically, saying that just playing SC2 for 16 hours a day doesnt mean you will be better than say if you only played 10. Ofcourse this varies person to person and activity to activity | ||
nucLeaRTV
Romania822 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:18 Philipd122 wrote: I'm pretty sure Leenock is doing programing full time now, doesn't go to school anymore I think. That was confusing as fuck. | ||
Fealthas
607 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:18 Philipd122 wrote: I'm pretty sure Leenock is doing programing full time now, doesn't go to school anymore I think. Programing or progaming? Im confused. | ||
huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
On April 17 2012 03:40 IMoperator wrote: People need to realize that the standard income rate in Korea is lower than that of countries in the west, so although it may not seem like they will be earning a lot, they will be earning pretty close to what's average in Korea (if they continue to do well, that is). Most SC2 pros in Korea have no salary. | ||
Account252508
3454 Posts
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
it's not unreasonable to see it as irresponsible and ridiculous. it's a risk you take because you have passion for it but it's for people to talk shit about your dreams for it be even more amazing when you achieve it against all odds. | ||
Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
The difference is that these 'progamers' play 1 game all the time, while your average kid gets bored after 1-2 months and starts another game. Also I don't really understand this fanboyism in this context. Someone who plays WoW in his cellar for 12 hours a day is considered to be a nolife sucker, while those kids, throwing away social life, experiences like having gfs for a game, from which they, in the end, got nothing, but still have fans? Well I guess they think they're happy. | ||
mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
degrees and such. lucky for polt! ) I mean, after practising for 24/7 and IF they dont get good results, they're probably screwed.. + they have to do 2 years of military service. | ||
SpinmovE
Canada119 Posts
On April 17 2012 04:12 GreyKnight wrote: most progamers won't be succesful, hit it big or really reach the height of their dreams. they will likely be a failure and set the life back many years(especially in korea and east asian countries) it's not unreasonable to see it as irresponsible and ridiculous. it's a risk you take because you have passion for it but it's for people to talk shit about your dreams for it be even more amazing when you achieve it against all odds. Why is living your life in a such a way that you enjoy everyday considered a bad thing by so many people in this thread? Money isn't everything. | ||
LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's their life and they can do whatever they wish with it. If they're enjoying themself playing SC2 on the highest competitive level, then why wouldn't they? And by the time SC2 starts fading off (It's at the very minimum 5-6 years away), something new and fresh will have come along and the industry will have grown and expanded. Plenty of jobs will surely be available. | ||
GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
On April 17 2012 04:24 SpinmovE wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 04:12 GreyKnight wrote: most progamers won't be succesful, hit it big or really reach the height of their dreams. they will likely be a failure and set the life back many years(especially in korea and east asian countries) it's not unreasonable to see it as irresponsible and ridiculous. it's a risk you take because you have passion for it but it's for people to talk shit about your dreams for it be even more amazing when you achieve it against all odds. Why is living your life in a such a way that you enjoy everyday considered a bad thing by so many people in this thread? Money isn't everything. Where did i even mention money | ||
DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On April 17 2012 04:14 Xiron wrote: I don't understand what the point of the thread is. It's kind of obvious what they are doing, right? Go to school, eat, play Sc2, sleep, go to school. Just like thousands of other kids do. The difference is that these 'progamers' play 1 game all the time, while your average kid gets bored after 1-2 months and starts another game. Also I don't really understand this fanboyism in this context. Someone who plays WoW in his cellar for 12 hours a day is considered to be a nolife sucker, while those kids, throwing away social life, experiences like having gfs for a game, from which they, in the end, got nothing, but still have fans? Well I guess they think they're happy. Wait what, are you talking about SC2 or the WoW people in the end? Because if you have any idea how Korean teams work I don't think you can say "throwing away social life" tbh. If anything, they have a crazy amount of social life living that many together. Would rather say lack of privacy. "Experiences like having gfs", just FYI there are quite a few of the pros that has girlfriends.. To name a few : iNcontroL, Demuslim, MC. "In the end, got nothing, but still have fans" How is fans nothing? So much random nonsense coming out of you. Feel free to dislike the whole "pro-gaming" lifestyle. But if you're going to voice and opinion on why it's bad, make sure to get your facts right at least? Let them live their life as they want. Each and everyone of us got our own dreams. Some are hardworking and try to reach them, and others don't even try. When they look back on their lives later on, as long as they know they gave it their all, they are going to be way more satisfied than someone who ignored their dreams. It's not just pro-gamers who give up a lot to reach their goals. ANY succesful person in ANY profession has worked hard to reach their position. And that always means sacrifices was made. Please stop posting if you're just going to state false information. | ||
Ripebananaa
Canada129 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive If you can make money doing that, then by all means. If Leenock can make money playing a game, then by all means. | ||
LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. How so? When are people seriously going to stop being miserable and just do what they love. If these kids are determined enough to go through the hell hole of being broke off their ass for a long time to try to achieve a dream like being a pro gamer. Even if someone at the age of Leenock was to fail they will still be young enough to do anything in life. If they even apply the same kind of dedication / motivation from how they are towards being a progamer to going back to school after it shouldn't be a problem. I am sick and tired of people saying "throw away their future". Everyone is going to die one day or another and its better to live life with no regrets at their age where they have no children or a wife to take care of rather then live a safe life never knowing if they could have reached their dreams. | ||
Silentness
United States2821 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:36 bokchoi wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:32 DrPandaPhD wrote: On April 16 2012 20:24 Eufouria wrote: Leenock doesn't go to school any more. I guess Maru must unless school leaving age in Korea is 14. That is íncorrect. Leenock still goes to school . He say he doesn't really have time to study though so his grade's aren't all too good (but he is still passing the course). But he still goes to school. This is his last year. Grades are very iffy in Korea. What's more important are your exam scores and how well you do on your interviews (for college acceptance). To say he is "passing" means, he a) hasn't quit school and/or b) hasn't been kicked out. Just showing up will get you a "passing" grade. Thats why a lot of parents put much more emphasis on post-school studies (academies, private tutors, etc). because those are what's really going to help you get into a good college. In reality basic schooling is there to "teach" you the basics, and make sure you're not socially retarded. Yeah my Korean brother-in-law is focused for his exams, but he said he would play me in Starcraft when his exam finishes this month haha. | ||
pt
United States813 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:45 monkybone wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:31 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote: On April 16 2012 21:09 monkybone wrote: On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. No way, lol. yes, no way, nerchio and lucifron are 5 times better than maru and almost the same skill level as leenock Rofl, such foreigner bias. Maru and Leenock are tiers above both of these players. Nerchio and lucifron would get their asses handed to them in the gsl. OBVIOUSLY hes joking.. | ||
FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
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SniperVul5
Canada166 Posts
Assuming they are successful at progaming (which very few are, not counting certain individuals that do not produce quality results and are B-teamer quality) they cannot maintain their skill for a substantial time regardless of how hard they practice due to the stiff competition and the rapidly changing styles of the game. In addition, having the smallest mistake cost one the series (or in some cases additional award money) makes it that much more challenging. When comparing it to normal sports, even newbie players can get a decent salary and they are not practicing extreme hours; thereby having time to do other activities (whether its outside socializing or relationships, perhaps schooling). When you consider how most players in sports begin, many come from a certain level of college education before they are drafted into a team to begin with, so they have at least some form of post secondary education that they can choose to continue should they feel that professional sports is not their "dream." Progamers generally have to start early as that is when their reactions are at their prime. Their education therefore is conflicted with their intense practice early on which makes it that much harder for them in the future when they retire from progaming. The biggest problem in my opinion (and feel free to discuss and/or disagree with me on this) is basically what happens after progaming. I recall somewhere early on in the thread someone talked about company relations, casting etc as future options. You have to realize how few people are capable of doing that (and most of the time they already have some form of fame to attract attention compounded with above average interpersonal skills compared to other introverted progamers). Listing people like inControl or Destiny w/e having other choices is great but that is mainly because they also have many other skills that help them get more accustomed to their other roles. Setting that aside, most people do not want to continue on these paths anyways for many reasons 1) If they failed at progaming they may see this as a painful reminder or their own failures (watching better players from the sidelines) and 2) ***they lack a feeling of fulfillment*** I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. Would these types of careers involving gaming really do such things compared to those with an education in any other field? (Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Trades, Finances/Business, Education or even Entertainment). By working to have something significant to contribute it gives us a sense of fulfillment. I just can't see things like casting or working from below with a company that sponsors a progaming team etc meeting these fulfillments in the long run, long enough that I can think to myself when I'm in my senior years "I feel like I did something for society" Discuss how you like... but that is my personal stance on it. Note: - I really do enjoy progaming, the games and dedication from the people and see nothing inherently wrong with the career itself, its what's after that concerns me and how ill prepared people can be for that if people choose this path (they cannot live this "dream" for a substantial period of time to consider it a long term career) - My personal goals are to work on becoming someone who can teach and inspire others in whatever field I am involved in (I like teaching in short... but not just in a primary school setting I want to teach at higher levels like post-secondary or medical school institutions) | ||
oxxo
988 Posts
On April 17 2012 05:13 SniperVul5 wrote: The biggest problem in my opinion (and feel free to discuss and/or disagree with me on this) is basically what happens after progaming. I recall somewhere early on in the thread someone talked about company relations, casting etc as future options. You have to realize how few people are capable of doing that (and most of the time they already have some form of fame to attract attention compounded with above average interpersonal skills compared to other introverted progamers). Listing people like inControl or Destiny w/e having other choices is great but that is mainly because they also have many other skills that help them get more accustomed to their other roles. Setting that aside, most people do not want to continue on these paths anyways for many reasons 1) If they failed at progaming they may see this as a painful reminder or their own failures (watching better players from the sidelines) and 2) ***they lack a feeling of fulfillment*** I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. Would these types of careers involving gaming really do such things compared to those with an education in any other field? (Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Trades, Finances/Business, Education or even Entertainment). By working to have something significant to contribute it gives us a sense of fulfillment. I just can't see things like casting or working from below with a company that sponsors a progaming team etc meeting these fulfillments in the long run, long enough that I can think to myself when I'm in my senior years "I feel like I did something for society" Discuss how you like... but that is my personal stance on it. Note: - I really do enjoy progaming, the games and dedication from the people and see nothing inherently wrong with the career itself, its what's after that concerns me and how ill prepared people can be for that if people choose this path (they cannot live this "dream" for a substantial period of time to consider it a long term career) - My personal goals are to work on becoming someone who can teach and inspire others in whatever field I am involved in (I like teaching in short... but not just in a primary school setting I want to teach at higher levels like post-secondary or medical school institutions) That's your personal opinion man. I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm guaranteed 40 hours a week and a 6 figure salary. Having time and being able to take care of family is all I care about. Other people choose careers that will give them the most 'importance' and fame. Others choose whatever will give them the most money. It's silly to say that everyone should choose an altruistic career, because everyone is different. If they want to become progamers then whatever. They're doing something they love for money. Then there's also the fact that Korea has a completely different job market. Progaming isn't a bad choice over there. | ||
RayOfTheVoid
Norway95 Posts
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Fortis-Et-Fidus
United States119 Posts
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csViPER
United States9 Posts
24 Nov 11 by @fxopenesports To clarify to everyone asking. Leenock DOES go to school. | ||
TommyP
United States6231 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote: On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. Maybe Marum Nerchio and Lucifron shouldnt be in the same sentence as a GSL finalist/ MLG champion (other than Huk and Naniwa) | ||
Shana
Indonesia1814 Posts
Flash going to school while destroying everyone left and right, he's graduated on 2011. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191845 | ||
celeryman
United States54 Posts
On April 17 2012 06:14 oxxo wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 05:13 SniperVul5 wrote: The biggest problem in my opinion (and feel free to discuss and/or disagree with me on this) is basically what happens after progaming. I recall somewhere early on in the thread someone talked about company relations, casting etc as future options. You have to realize how few people are capable of doing that (and most of the time they already have some form of fame to attract attention compounded with above average interpersonal skills compared to other introverted progamers). Listing people like inControl or Destiny w/e having other choices is great but that is mainly because they also have many other skills that help them get more accustomed to their other roles. Setting that aside, most people do not want to continue on these paths anyways for many reasons 1) If they failed at progaming they may see this as a painful reminder or their own failures (watching better players from the sidelines) and 2) ***they lack a feeling of fulfillment*** I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. Would these types of careers involving gaming really do such things compared to those with an education in any other field? (Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Trades, Finances/Business, Education or even Entertainment). By working to have something significant to contribute it gives us a sense of fulfillment. I just can't see things like casting or working from below with a company that sponsors a progaming team etc meeting these fulfillments in the long run, long enough that I can think to myself when I'm in my senior years "I feel like I did something for society" Discuss how you like... but that is my personal stance on it. Note: - I really do enjoy progaming, the games and dedication from the people and see nothing inherently wrong with the career itself, its what's after that concerns me and how ill prepared people can be for that if people choose this path (they cannot live this "dream" for a substantial period of time to consider it a long term career) - My personal goals are to work on becoming someone who can teach and inspire others in whatever field I am involved in (I like teaching in short... but not just in a primary school setting I want to teach at higher levels like post-secondary or medical school institutions) That's your personal opinion man. I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm guaranteed 40 hours a week and a 6 figure salary. Having time and being able to take care of family is all I care about. Other people choose careers that will give them the most 'importance' and fame. Others choose whatever will give them the most money. It's silly to say that everyone should choose an altruistic career, because everyone is different. If they want to become progamers then whatever. They're doing something they love for money. Then there's also the fact that Korea has a completely different job market. Progaming isn't a bad choice over there. I've had similar thoughts in the context of professional poker. I suppose being the best at something is worthwhile, and most people work ultimately meaningless jobs, but your response oxxo is particularly cynical. | ||
AngryFarmer
United States560 Posts
On April 17 2012 04:37 Ripebananaa wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive If you can make money doing that, then by all means. If Leenock can make money playing a game, then by all means. The issue here is only a few peopel can really make money off of it. So many famous guitarists smoke weed and make a lot of money. The issue is that they are such a small portion of guitarists that smoke weed. It is really naive to pursue certain dreams because only a few can be at the top. In the GSL there are only 64 spots or something like that. This means that only 64 people's dreams can be realized.(assuming GSL is the pinnacle of SC2 success which I believe it is) | ||
sharky246
1197 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:15 SomeONEx wrote: Hello! I just came to a thought. Among a few, both Leenock and Maru are going to school 5 days a week. How much do they manage to practice a normal week with a GSL match on, lets say thursday? Do they have to worry about homework? Do they have special classes because of their situation? I know Leenock has said the dosen't like waking up in the mornings because he stays up so late to practice, but is that it? Does young pro-gamers stay in school 7-8 hours a day, goes home and do homework for ~1 hour and then practice, while the almighty ObamaToss SK-MC have all those 9 hours up on the younglings? tl:dr How does a normal day look for progamers going to school? Sorry for bad english, not my native lanugage Koreans go to school 6 days a week, monday to saturday | ||
andReslic
216 Posts
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
As for Europe and America where you don't actually need that much practice id imagine they just skip all homeowork/learning and pass with a grades lil lower than they usually had. | ||
AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote: On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. Not similar at all, but they definitely aren't just "half as good" as Leenock and Maru. | ||
brinker
45 Posts
#YOLO | ||
freakhill
Japan463 Posts
On April 17 2012 05:13 SniperVul5 wrote: I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. No, just No. It's a cultural thing that NA people tend to be obsessed with. | ||
LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
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BraneSC2
United States123 Posts
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Blennd
United States266 Posts
On April 17 2012 05:06 FakePseudo wrote: I think the main point of the debate is about the 80 other % who never managed to really break out in the progaming scene and who stopped their "normal" life plans at the early stages of secundary school. That kind of interruption is nearly impossible to recover from. This is a real problem, in every sports. I agree. Here in the US, it's often debated whether people should pass up potential contracts of hundreds of thousands of dollars to finish their college degree instead of going pro in American football or basketball. Dropping out of high school for a contract that is essentially room and board plus maaaybe a few thousand here and there seems like insanity. Also, to all the people saying "they are following their dreams", do you really think a 14 or 15 year old is in a position to rationally evaluate the importance of education in their life? Its all well and good to go down a path for reasons other than money, I just think very few 15 year olds really have the life experience and perspective necessary to properly make decisions like that. | ||
brinker
45 Posts
On April 17 2012 05:06 FakePseudo wrote: Also, to all the people saying "they are following their dreams", do you really think a 14 or 15 year old is in a position to rationally evaluate the importance of education in their life? Its all well and good to go down a path for reasons other than money, I just think very few 15 year olds really have the life experience and perspective necessary to properly make decisions like that. I'm going to give you a news flash here, You only live for 70-80 years in most cases. So what your saying is, someone who has already spent over 1/5 of their entire existence here should be looking at the FUTURE and not living life to the fullest while they can? When you die, your accomplishments and all of the money you have made amount to nothing. Even if there is some form of afterlife, I'm pretty sure your college degree doesn't carry over with you. Only the emotions you have left on other people live on. You sound like one of those people that are narrow minded to the point that anything besides going to school, getting an education, getting a good job, having a couple kids and dying is unacceptable. That being said, school is pretty important. I can see this argument both ways through, but I'm heavily in favor of going for it, in whatever you are trying to do. No Regrets. | ||
vijeze
Netherlands719 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. Many pro-gamers are able to find a position in the industry after retiring. Players such as Leenock will be able to find such a spot because of his stellar reputation, age and his actual results. | ||
kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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GTR
51140 Posts
On June 07 2012 16:40 kollin wrote: Didn't flash do school in the day then just practice at night? That must have been horrible :/ | ||
Jacmert
Canada1709 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:01 imperator-xy wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. right now they are living their dreams, i dont know how this is supposed to be a bad thing Because for many of them they may not have much of a career trajectory if they don't make it into university, etc. | ||
RuMCaKe
United States559 Posts
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Jacmert
Canada1709 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:13 Superneenja wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:02 whiterabbit wrote: On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. I love it how you spent time to write that, you even used "narrow-minded" card, but you didn't give a single example of what lucrative can Korean guy without education do after he quits pro-gaming. Start their own team, become a coach, work in the industry? I mean who really cares? Its their lives and I love how people come on here looking in from the outside and judge them. I'm sure if you had the opportunity you would take it too... The top SC personalities probably make more money than a lot of us, it's just sad we got people coming to comment on the forums just to judge people or make some petty condescending remarks. Maybe they feel sad for us, because some of our futures = working at a job you don't enjoy, while they are getting paid for what they love to do. Korean pro-gamers think that the foreigner pro-gamers are raking in the big bucks with their foreign teams, which is why it's said that a lot of Koreans wish they could get picked up by a foreign team, instead of their own teams. When in fact, the picture isn't as rosy as they think for the foreigner pro-gamers (i.e. there isn't THAT much money being thrown around). The whole reason for their point of view, though, is because many, many Korean "pro-gamers" aren't even earning much money (I think a lot of them aren't earning anything at all), even if they get to live in a pro-gaming house. Room and board, but I've heard that many Korean pro-gamers don't play for a salary. The reason? There are a LOT of Korean "pro"-gamers (or at least on the professional teams and at a competition, Code B to Code A level let's say) and so supply is high and they're willing to play for next to nothing. So the economic outlook isn't very good for them, even in the present. And there are so many of them who are in their teens and early teens. Don't forget, this is Asia, where grades -> university -> career is pretty much everything. I think it would be a rare individual who would be able to recognize and leverage their other skills and talents and forge a decent career without going to university route, but I'd expect it'd be more difficult than in North America. And I don't think they can just find a job in the eSports industry in Korea as a former player - I don't think that industry is big enough. There's a reason Stephano is going to go back to school, and he is the top foreign SC2 player in terms of winnings. There's a reason that Huk keeps saying in interviews that his advice to anyone wanting to become a pro-gamer is "don't do it" (because it's so hard to actually make it work). There's a reason that Day[9], I think it was, has said before that if you want a job in eSports, you're going to have to make your own job. And I think DJWheat has talked about how the industry isn't at the stage yet where you can count on getting an eSports job. Granted, that's the foreign/western scene. But I think whether in the foreign or Korean eSports scenes, you've got a better shot at getting an eSports job by having skills (and preferably, experience) in normal industries, like PR or marketing or photography/video editing skills, etc. Which you'd probably want to go to school for or spend your time working to build up the experience (and not pro-gaming). Ok, sorry for the rambling, but hopefully it's coherent In summary, think about the odds. The vast majority are going to have to "do something else". Think about high school and college football. Many of the very top players and I would guess even a lot of the stars end up not working in the football industry. | ||
bananajk
Germany92 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:01 imperator-xy wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. right now they are living their dreams, i dont know how this is supposed to be a bad thing Yes, rightnow they are maybe living their dream, but what are they supposed to do after their sc2 carrier without "any" education? I think some of the younger players should play half time and go to school and if there are these special schools for young pros they should use that opportunity. | ||
AngryFarmer
United States560 Posts
On June 07 2012 17:07 bananajk wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:01 imperator-xy wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. right now they are living their dreams, i dont know how this is supposed to be a bad thing Yes, rightnow they are maybe living their dream, but what are they supposed to do after their sc2 carrier without "any" education? I think some of the younger players should play half time and go to school and if there are these special schools for young pros they should use that opportunity. Yeah exactly. Look at Fruitdealer. He was the shit when sc2 first came out and now there is like 0 talk about him. These dreams they pursue really dont last very long. If they have no education and their progaming career is over they really have nothing left. No education means they can't really move on. I've heard that progamers in China end up working at internet cafes and stuff. Nobody remembers them. | ||
TheRealFluid
United States501 Posts
On June 07 2012 17:06 Jacmert wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:13 Superneenja wrote: On April 16 2012 23:02 whiterabbit wrote: On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. I love it how you spent time to write that, you even used "narrow-minded" card, but you didn't give a single example of what lucrative can Korean guy without education do after he quits pro-gaming. Start their own team, become a coach, work in the industry? I mean who really cares? Its their lives and I love how people come on here looking in from the outside and judge them. I'm sure if you had the opportunity you would take it too... The top SC personalities probably make more money than a lot of us, it's just sad we got people coming to comment on the forums just to judge people or make some petty condescending remarks. Maybe they feel sad for us, because some of our futures = working at a job you don't enjoy, while they are getting paid for what they love to do. There's a reason Stephano is going to go back to school, and he is the top foreign SC2 player in terms of winnings. Actually, Stephano is staying in Starcraft 2 for what seems to be awhile... | ||
Krystal
New Zealand67 Posts
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AngryFarmer
United States560 Posts
On June 07 2012 17:46 Krystal wrote: Didn't Polt win the GSL Super Tournament while still studying at a really well known university? Some dudes are simply genius enough to make it work. He won it after he finished that year of school. I think it was his summer holiday or something | ||
SupplyBlockedTV
Belgium313 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:45 prOpSaiton wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. What's sad about it? Being successful means you get to travel the world, meet awesome people and potentially make good money off tournament winnings and streaming. There are many ways to do something else once you're done playing a game professionally, you're just too narrow-minded to see it. ????? Narrow minded???? !!! I can tell you that having degrees is very very important in this world my friend, being a high school drop-out myself.. i had to try insanely hard to even achieve something, its way easier to lead a somewhat normal life if you have those degrees... and it is a very well known fact that pro-athletes, have problems finding decent jobs after their career. I hope you never dropout of school if you are still studying, because reality is not always what you believe it is | ||
Megabuster123
Canada1837 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote: On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru. That's such a ridiculous statement...They aren't comparable right now. | ||
StreetWise
United States594 Posts
On April 17 2012 00:20 superbabosheki wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:51 skirmisheR wrote: On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive I don't understand, there is nothing stopping progamers from getting an education when they quit SC2. Worst case scenario they wasted some years having fun, but it doesn't stop them from just "resuming their life" if you see my point. They are just a little older, that's everything EDIT: This is exactly like going pro in a sport or anything else, should we say that every athlete is wasting his/her life as well? You do realize to go pro in many sports you need to go through college first. Their degrees are usually worthless, or they drop out one year early, but at least they have something. It also helps that their minimum payscale is 6 figures. You know, I almost wish the pro scene would become a little more like regular sports in this aspect. I realize that you wouldn't have the best players if you only draft from college, but this can also be argued with regular sports. At least the pros would have a degree when they get out, and maybe it would lead to things like college scholarships and legitimize ESports even more. | ||
-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On June 07 2012 21:30 StreetWise wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 00:20 superbabosheki wrote: On April 16 2012 23:51 skirmisheR wrote: On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote: On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive I don't understand, there is nothing stopping progamers from getting an education when they quit SC2. Worst case scenario they wasted some years having fun, but it doesn't stop them from just "resuming their life" if you see my point. They are just a little older, that's everything EDIT: This is exactly like going pro in a sport or anything else, should we say that every athlete is wasting his/her life as well? You do realize to go pro in many sports you need to go through college first. Their degrees are usually worthless, or they drop out one year early, but at least they have something. It also helps that their minimum payscale is 6 figures. You know, I almost wish the pro scene would become a little more like regular sports in this aspect. I realize that you wouldn't have the best players if you only draft from college, but this can also be argued with regular sports. At least the pros would have a degree when they get out, and maybe it would lead to things like college scholarships and legitimize ESports even more. I think the requirement for people to go to college to play a sport professionally is more a US thing than a pro-sport thing. University sports are not very big elsewhere, and there is no actual link between being able to play a sport well and being capable of getting into university - and in places where college sports are not a money maker, colleges are less likely to compromise their standards by enough to get people like Wayne Rooney in. Plus in many places there is no way that pro-teams would accept such restrictionson hiring talent. I would rather E-Sports not have any restrictions on players beyond those necessary to protect children - if they are signed, they must still attend school or be tutored until they reach the local legal minimum at least; they should not be expected to leave home until they reach a suitable age. Works well for many global sports, like soccer. Plus there are ever more opportunities for adult education and alternative paths to university are more open than they have ever been - a positive trend for wider society and for people in careers that begin and end young without providing enough earnings for retirement or skill for a new career. Edit: On June 07 2012 17:22 AngryFarmer wrote: Show nested quote + On June 07 2012 17:07 bananajk wrote: On April 16 2012 23:01 imperator-xy wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. right now they are living their dreams, i dont know how this is supposed to be a bad thing Yes, rightnow they are maybe living their dream, but what are they supposed to do after their sc2 carrier without "any" education? I think some of the younger players should play half time and go to school and if there are these special schools for young pros they should use that opportunity. Yeah exactly. Look at Fruitdealer. He was the shit when sc2 first came out and now there is like 0 talk about him. These dreams they pursue really dont last very long. If they have no education and their progaming career is over they really have nothing left. No education means they can't really move on. I've heard that progamers in China end up working at internet cafes and stuff. Nobody remembers them. In most places, they can return to education if they wish to - though they may need to work part-time during that period at low level jobs. Or they can use their connections from their career (sponsors and the like) along with their experience to get higher level jobs. Representing a major brand well while sponsored, travelling widely and interacting with media of any kind in a variety of different circumstances appropriately, being contracted by a team or teams to represent them; these all show that you have the potential to represent a company in a PR position. Producing content of your own, as in a stream or a web show, and drawing enough viewers to supplement your income meaningfully is relevant experience if you want to enter the media industry. If you can compete well in the international tournament schedule now, then when you have some in-house training you will be able to keep up with an international meeting schedule or an expo tour. If you abstract the skills and experience you can gain from a professional e-sports career from their context, you will find that many of them can be demonstrated to be useful in other situations. When you write your CV, you can write it to reflect this by writing in the skill-focused rather than certification-focused form. Listing your tournament successes will not look great, listing the non-gaming soft skills you developed so you could continue to get to tournaments and explaining how your gaming career led to their development/polishing will be much better. (Playing HC WoW can described very positively in terms of soft-skill development if you think about it the right way - in a guild that does 40-man raids? and you all co-ordinate rapidly despite being in different countries? That's impressive. Teams get increasingly hard to manage as their size gets above 7-10 people. A leadership or recruitment role in that sort of guild is even better. Everything is presentation.) | ||
CarpetmoOse
United States22 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:51 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 23:36 Saechiis wrote: On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. I'd argue that being among the best in a competetive field like progaming gives you the tools to be good at anything. It's just going to take a lot longer since you'll have a late start. It's not like your life is done if you don't roll into university from the get go. The minimum salary for NBA players is higher than what Flash makes. Most are bankrupt within 5 years of retiring. The competitiveness of these players in playing games works against them when it comes to investing their money. And the vast majority won't earn a decent salary after their gaming career is over. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364 Do you realize how making that connection is about as close to comparing a full size truck and an economy based car? All these "rich sport players that just become bankrups in 5 years" spend their money on stupid diamond everything, 10 cars they most likely will never drive more than 1,000 miles in their time owning it, and a house built to house 10 wealthy average joes. I guarentee you Flash could manage his money a million times better than that and make it work for him 50 years (yes this could be exggurating but you get my point.) Success is not based on who makes the most money, its what makes you happy and enjoy your life. I would rather make $30,000 a year doing what I love and living the happiest life I can with my GF than making $10,000,000 and hating my job, working 14+ hours a day, and knowing the only reason my Wife/GF is with me is because Im a rich guy who most likely negative due to my work enviornment. Everyone has their own happiness, Just because what someone else's is isn't what you think he should do, doesn't mean its wrong. | ||
9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:18 Philipd122 wrote: I'm pretty sure Leenock is doing programing full time now, doesn't go to school anymore I think. The Korean is strong with this one. | ||
kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. Hmmm... this probably isn't the best site to say something like that. Whats sad is YOU'RE pitying THEM. | ||
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