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I don't even understand at all why people argue against how it could be considered "throwing away their future" (for lack of a better phrase). and the idea of a "Dream"
Assuming they are successful at progaming (which very few are, not counting certain individuals that do not produce quality results and are B-teamer quality) they cannot maintain their skill for a substantial time regardless of how hard they practice due to the stiff competition and the rapidly changing styles of the game. In addition, having the smallest mistake cost one the series (or in some cases additional award money) makes it that much more challenging.
When comparing it to normal sports, even newbie players can get a decent salary and they are not practicing extreme hours; thereby having time to do other activities (whether its outside socializing or relationships, perhaps schooling). When you consider how most players in sports begin, many come from a certain level of college education before they are drafted into a team to begin with, so they have at least some form of post secondary education that they can choose to continue should they feel that professional sports is not their "dream." Progamers generally have to start early as that is when their reactions are at their prime. Their education therefore is conflicted with their intense practice early on which makes it that much harder for them in the future when they retire from progaming.
The biggest problem in my opinion (and feel free to discuss and/or disagree with me on this) is basically what happens after progaming. I recall somewhere early on in the thread someone talked about company relations, casting etc as future options. You have to realize how few people are capable of doing that (and most of the time they already have some form of fame to attract attention compounded with above average interpersonal skills compared to other introverted progamers). Listing people like inControl or Destiny w/e having other choices is great but that is mainly because they also have many other skills that help them get more accustomed to their other roles. Setting that aside, most people do not want to continue on these paths anyways for many reasons 1) If they failed at progaming they may see this as a painful reminder or their own failures (watching better players from the sidelines) and 2) ***they lack a feeling of fulfillment***
I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. Would these types of careers involving gaming really do such things compared to those with an education in any other field? (Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Trades, Finances/Business, Education or even Entertainment). By working to have something significant to contribute it gives us a sense of fulfillment. I just can't see things like casting or working from below with a company that sponsors a progaming team etc meeting these fulfillments in the long run, long enough that I can think to myself when I'm in my senior years "I feel like I did something for society"
Discuss how you like... but that is my personal stance on it.
Note: - I really do enjoy progaming, the games and dedication from the people and see nothing inherently wrong with the career itself, its what's after that concerns me and how ill prepared people can be for that if people choose this path (they cannot live this "dream" for a substantial period of time to consider it a long term career) - My personal goals are to work on becoming someone who can teach and inspire others in whatever field I am involved in (I like teaching in short... but not just in a primary school setting I want to teach at higher levels like post-secondary or medical school institutions)
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On April 17 2012 05:13 SniperVul5 wrote:
The biggest problem in my opinion (and feel free to discuss and/or disagree with me on this) is basically what happens after progaming. I recall somewhere early on in the thread someone talked about company relations, casting etc as future options. You have to realize how few people are capable of doing that (and most of the time they already have some form of fame to attract attention compounded with above average interpersonal skills compared to other introverted progamers). Listing people like inControl or Destiny w/e having other choices is great but that is mainly because they also have many other skills that help them get more accustomed to their other roles. Setting that aside, most people do not want to continue on these paths anyways for many reasons 1) If they failed at progaming they may see this as a painful reminder or their own failures (watching better players from the sidelines) and 2) ***they lack a feeling of fulfillment***
I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. Would these types of careers involving gaming really do such things compared to those with an education in any other field? (Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Trades, Finances/Business, Education or even Entertainment). By working to have something significant to contribute it gives us a sense of fulfillment. I just can't see things like casting or working from below with a company that sponsors a progaming team etc meeting these fulfillments in the long run, long enough that I can think to myself when I'm in my senior years "I feel like I did something for society"
Discuss how you like... but that is my personal stance on it.
Note: - I really do enjoy progaming, the games and dedication from the people and see nothing inherently wrong with the career itself, its what's after that concerns me and how ill prepared people can be for that if people choose this path (they cannot live this "dream" for a substantial period of time to consider it a long term career) - My personal goals are to work on becoming someone who can teach and inspire others in whatever field I am involved in (I like teaching in short... but not just in a primary school setting I want to teach at higher levels like post-secondary or medical school institutions)
That's your personal opinion man. I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm guaranteed 40 hours a week and a 6 figure salary. Having time and being able to take care of family is all I care about. Other people choose careers that will give them the most 'importance' and fame. Others choose whatever will give them the most money. It's silly to say that everyone should choose an altruistic career, because everyone is different.
If they want to become progamers then whatever. They're doing something they love for money. Then there's also the fact that Korea has a completely different job market. Progaming isn't a bad choice over there.
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Leenocks translator said that he did not go to school as a answer to a question about how he gets the time to do everything. (it was in november after he won MLG Providence)
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yea, Hwanni told the interviewer "ughh, he doesn't go to school" and the crowd was like lol wth and the interviewer was kinda shocked/suprised, and then moved onto other questions ( i think he skipped some related to school because he doesn't go to school.)
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FXO cleared things up Leenock's student status:
24 Nov 11 by @fxopenesports
To clarify to everyone asking. Leenock DOES go to school.
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On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote:On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru.
Maybe Marum Nerchio and Lucifron shouldnt be in the same sentence as a GSL finalist/ MLG champion (other than Huk and Naniwa)
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On April 17 2012 06:14 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 05:13 SniperVul5 wrote:
The biggest problem in my opinion (and feel free to discuss and/or disagree with me on this) is basically what happens after progaming. I recall somewhere early on in the thread someone talked about company relations, casting etc as future options. You have to realize how few people are capable of doing that (and most of the time they already have some form of fame to attract attention compounded with above average interpersonal skills compared to other introverted progamers). Listing people like inControl or Destiny w/e having other choices is great but that is mainly because they also have many other skills that help them get more accustomed to their other roles. Setting that aside, most people do not want to continue on these paths anyways for many reasons 1) If they failed at progaming they may see this as a painful reminder or their own failures (watching better players from the sidelines) and 2) ***they lack a feeling of fulfillment***
I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest. Would these types of careers involving gaming really do such things compared to those with an education in any other field? (Arts, Sciences, Engineering, Trades, Finances/Business, Education or even Entertainment). By working to have something significant to contribute it gives us a sense of fulfillment. I just can't see things like casting or working from below with a company that sponsors a progaming team etc meeting these fulfillments in the long run, long enough that I can think to myself when I'm in my senior years "I feel like I did something for society"
Discuss how you like... but that is my personal stance on it.
Note: - I really do enjoy progaming, the games and dedication from the people and see nothing inherently wrong with the career itself, its what's after that concerns me and how ill prepared people can be for that if people choose this path (they cannot live this "dream" for a substantial period of time to consider it a long term career) - My personal goals are to work on becoming someone who can teach and inspire others in whatever field I am involved in (I like teaching in short... but not just in a primary school setting I want to teach at higher levels like post-secondary or medical school institutions)
That's your personal opinion man. I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm guaranteed 40 hours a week and a 6 figure salary. Having time and being able to take care of family is all I care about. Other people choose careers that will give them the most 'importance' and fame. Others choose whatever will give them the most money. It's silly to say that everyone should choose an altruistic career, because everyone is different. If they want to become progamers then whatever. They're doing something they love for money. Then there's also the fact that Korea has a completely different job market. Progaming isn't a bad choice over there.
I've had similar thoughts in the context of professional poker. I suppose being the best at something is worthwhile, and most people work ultimately meaningless jobs, but your response oxxo is particularly cynical.
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On April 17 2012 04:37 Ripebananaa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:23 Paraietta wrote:On April 16 2012 23:14 LucidityDark wrote:On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. It's kinda sad that you disregard the fact that it may be their dreams to play on big stages, showing their skills and playing the game at a high level. Jesus, it's my dream to be able to play guitar and smoke weed all day and not have to do stupid education or stupid job but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid and irresponsible idea Dreams? How naive If you can make money doing that, then by all means. If Leenock can make money playing a game, then by all means.
The issue here is only a few peopel can really make money off of it. So many famous guitarists smoke weed and make a lot of money. The issue is that they are such a small portion of guitarists that smoke weed. It is really naive to pursue certain dreams because only a few can be at the top. In the GSL there are only 64 spots or something like that. This means that only 64 people's dreams can be realized.(assuming GSL is the pinnacle of SC2 success which I believe it is)
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On April 16 2012 20:15 SomeONEx wrote:Hello! I just came to a thought. Among a few, both Leenock and Maru are going to school 5 days a week. How much do they manage to practice a normal week with a GSL match on, lets say thursday? Do they have to worry about homework? Do they have special classes because of their situation? I know Leenock has said the dosen't like waking up in the mornings because he stays up so late to practice, but is that it? Does young pro-gamers stay in school 7-8 hours a day, goes home and do homework for ~1 hour and then practice, while the almighty ObamaToss SK-MC have all those 9 hours up on the younglings? tl:dr How does a normal day look for progamers going to school? Sorry for bad english, not my native lanugage
Koreans go to school 6 days a week, monday to saturday
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Leenock doesnt go to school, i remember watching that MLG he won, someone asked him if he went to school and he said no.
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I have no clue if they go, i know Leenock doesn't and not sure bout Maru... but considering how hard korean pro gaming is i would be surprised if they do. As for Europe and America where you don't actually need that much practice id imagine they just skip all homeowork/learning and pass with a grades lil lower than they usually had.
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On April 16 2012 21:06 Tidus Mino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 20:55 ThePlayer33 wrote:On April 16 2012 20:48 scsnow wrote: Arent some of top europeans such as Mana, Nerchio, Lucifron, etc. also studying? are any of them even half as good at leenock or maru? not sure. Yes, Nerchio and Lucifron are a similar skill level to Leenock and Maru.
Not similar at all, but they definitely aren't just "half as good" as Leenock and Maru.
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To all of the people saying that skipping school and maybe hindering your future for pro gaming is a bad/irresponsible choice, I'm going to make a few good points, and it will hopefully change your mind.
#YOLO
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On April 17 2012 05:13 SniperVul5 wrote: I don't know about you guys, but when I was young I wanted to become someone who can make a significant contribution to society and make a difference. It didn't matter to me what I did as long as I was able to achieve such feats. Most people are inclined to think this way as its human nature to set ourselves apart from the rest.
No, just No. It's a cultural thing that NA people tend to be obsessed with.
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TBH if you are in highschool it really shouldn't be too hard to do both. Highschool imo was relatively easy for me. Trying to be a progamer in college is nearly impossible if you want to attain a good degree at a decent speed.
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I wouldn't put off high school to pursue a pro gaming career, nor college. But I wouldn't mind taking college slow if I had a good shot at a pro gaming career. Too bad that'll never happen :'(
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On April 17 2012 05:06 FakePseudo wrote: I think the main point of the debate is about the 80 other % who never managed to really break out in the progaming scene and who stopped their "normal" life plans at the early stages of secundary school. That kind of interruption is nearly impossible to recover from. This is a real problem, in every sports. I agree. Here in the US, it's often debated whether people should pass up potential contracts of hundreds of thousands of dollars to finish their college degree instead of going pro in American football or basketball. Dropping out of high school for a contract that is essentially room and board plus maaaybe a few thousand here and there seems like insanity. Also, to all the people saying "they are following their dreams", do you really think a 14 or 15 year old is in a position to rationally evaluate the importance of education in their life? Its all well and good to go down a path for reasons other than money, I just think very few 15 year olds really have the life experience and perspective necessary to properly make decisions like that.
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On April 17 2012 05:06 FakePseudo wrote: Also, to all the people saying "they are following their dreams", do you really think a 14 or 15 year old is in a position to rationally evaluate the importance of education in their life? Its all well and good to go down a path for reasons other than money, I just think very few 15 year olds really have the life experience and perspective necessary to properly make decisions like that.
I'm going to give you a news flash here, You only live for 70-80 years in most cases. So what your saying is, someone who has already spent over 1/5 of their entire existence here should be looking at the FUTURE and not living life to the fullest while they can? When you die, your accomplishments and all of the money you have made amount to nothing. Even if there is some form of afterlife, I'm pretty sure your college degree doesn't carry over with you. Only the emotions you have left on other people live on. You sound like one of those people that are narrow minded to the point that anything besides going to school, getting an education, getting a good job, having a couple kids and dying is unacceptable.
That being said, school is pretty important. I can see this argument both ways through, but I'm heavily in favor of going for it, in whatever you are trying to do.
No Regrets.
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On April 16 2012 22:33 Mayd wrote: It's kinda sad how Korean progamers throw away their future by playing video games. Once they are done playing they have nothing. Many pro-gamers are able to find a position in the industry after retiring. Players such as Leenock will be able to find such a spot because of his stellar reputation, age and his actual results.
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