@hiljus_r
Questions for James (ESL, IEM, WCS America Translator)
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kenzi
Korea (South)39 Posts
@hiljus_r | ||
Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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JayD
United States6 Posts
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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sc2chronic
United States777 Posts
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sc2chronic
United States777 Posts
On September 23 2014 02:07 SatedSC2 wrote: Is this the guy who (allegedly) makes up/elaborates answers to questions..? If so, can you ask about that..? EDIT: I say "allegedly" because I don't speak Korean myself and so can't confirm the allegation; that people in LR threads (who I can only assume do speak Korean) have been saying that his translations are iffy worries me. shoot and i thought i was the only one that noticed. that and he asks a totally different question most of the time. rewatch the interviews and the players never get to answer the hosts (be it day 9 or axeltoss)'s original question. could be nerves? or hes just really weird | ||
Estancia
Korea (South)335 Posts
On September 23 2014 12:27 sc2chronic wrote: shoot and i thought i was the only one that noticed. that and he asks a totally different question most of the time. rewatch the interviews and the players never get to answer the hosts (be it day 9 or axeltoss)'s original question. could be nerves? or hes just really weird Can't blame him, if he translated directly interviews would be kinda boring without. Very few Korean players are actually capable of providing entertaining interviews. But some times he takes it a bit too far. | ||
caznitch
Canada645 Posts
Who's the funniest korean? [edit - And is translating the humour some players use notoriously hard?] Did he party with Flash after that IEM win? | ||
Waxangel
United States32499 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 23 2014 12:41 Estancia wrote: Can't blame him, if he translated directly interviews would be kinda boring without. Very few Korean players are actually capable of providing entertaining interviews. But some times he takes it a bit too far. i think it is morally wrong on a very basic level to take someone's words from their mouth and willfully misrepresent them to an audience. of course there is always some nuance and imprecision to translation and it is a difficult task, but it crosses a line to intentionally translate in a way that prioritizes hype rather than accuracy (if that is indeed what he is doing - i don't speak korean but i know many here do and their complaints seem pretty credible). that said, i'm sure he means well and i don't think it's some kind of awful crime against humanity or anything. but i can certainly say if i were a player and a translator made it sound like i was trash talking or hyping the crowd when i actually just said something like "i felt really good in that game and i did that build because i knew he was a greedy player" then i would personally be upset and annoyed at being misrepresented and i would be less inclined to make efforts to reach out to foreign audiences. | ||
Waxangel
United States32499 Posts
I think there's an innate resistance for some of the more hardcore fans to accept that esports, and sports in general, is probably more of an entertainment business than they'd like. I dunno if that contributed but I just wanted to type some words D: | ||
sc2isnotdying
United States200 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
On September 23 2014 14:13 TRaFFiC wrote: Mistranslating is bad. However, he's by far the best translator sc2 has had. Translators in the past obviously struggle with the language and come off as nervous. His English is great (a lot of what he does is translating idioms from Korean to English) and he is confident. Imo, there is no room for nervousness in translation. It makes it so the message is unclear/weak. nah i dont think hes the best imo Chobra is by far the best, then i had Lil Susie and James MAL tied for 2nd/3rd but if its true that James mistranslates stuff to add his own "flavor" to the interviewers/players...well im going have to put him behind Lil Susie and with the rest of the other translators so Chobra>Lil Susie>MAL and others | ||
Silvana
3713 Posts
Imo making stuff for the sake of hype is ok but to a certain extent. And although it helps, we shouldn't rely on this to get more viewers.. | ||
asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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Holdenintherye
Canada1441 Posts
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
If so, I gotta admit I love the guy. His interviews are really excellent: no more awkward silences, the guy is really relaxed, always smiling,etc. I don't care if he translates some things loosely or whatever, IMHO the guy adds a lot to the production value and show aspect of a tournament. Plus, what he "adds" or changes to the player answers (if he does indeed add stuff) might be based on stuff players have told him off screen or whatnot, or on what he picks up of the players' body language or whatever... I don't really have questions, but please forward to him my appreciation for his work ! | ||
AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
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SWAT-Kat
United States311 Posts
From my experience, Korean and English are such different languages. I feel like the nuance in Korean is usually in the words, whereas the nuance in English is often in tone, rhythm, facial expression, and body language. From what I've learned, there are some words in English that can be translated as multiple words in Korean depending on the situation and context. Korean seems to have some oddly specific words that just don't seem to exist in English. Perhaps this is what people are talking about? Particularly between English and Korean, it's pretty much impossible to translate word for word. For what it's worth, I feel like Mal does a great job of not just translating, but interpreting (which is, in my opinion, way more important). | ||
LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On September 23 2014 17:14 SWAT-Kat wrote: Maybe I'm missing something because as far as I can tell, he does a pretty darn good job, and doesn't embellish beyond giving the players' answers more...feeling. I feel like he adds the tone and body language to the players' seemingly stoic responses. I haven't seen many of his post-match interviews, but I haven't noticed any translations/interpretations that were very different from what was said. I don't know, I guess my Korean isn't that good. From my experience, Korean and English are such different languages. I feel like the nuance in Korean is usually in the words, whereas the nuance in English is often in tone, rhythm, facial expression, and body language. From what I've learned, there are some words in English that can be translated as multiple words in Korean depending on the situation and context. Korean seems to have some oddly specific words that just don't seem to exist in English. Perhaps this is what people are talking about? Particularly between English and Korean, it's pretty much impossible to translate word for word. For what it's worth, I feel like Mal does a great job of not just translating, but interpreting (which is, in my opinion, way more important). Thank you for expressing the idea I was trying to explain in my earlier post way better than I did. I agree with you ! | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22271 Posts
On September 23 2014 14:19 mikumegurine wrote: nah i dont think hes the best imo Chobra is by far the best, then i had Lil Susie and James MAL tied for 2nd/3rd but if its true that James mistranslates stuff to add his own "flavor" to the interviewers/players...well im going have to put him behind Lil Susie and with the rest of the other translators so Chobra>Lil Susie>MAL and others Chobro, Smix, Sojung top 3 | ||
extinctosaurus
101 Posts
Like SWAT-Kat said, I think interpreting is more important than a word-for-word translation... as long as it's accurate, of course. I know sometimes translating from Chinese to English is pretty hard (at least it's hard for me to convey the same exact meaning without being super rambley) so maybe he's trying to do the same thing. I'd like to know how much he changes or embellishes, though, if he does. | ||
Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
On September 23 2014 12:58 Waxangel wrote: Regarding the liberties Mal sometimes takes with the translations and the backlash against it: I think there's an innate resistance for some of the more hardcore fans to accept that esports, and sports in general, is probably more of an entertainment business than they'd like. I dunno if that contributed but I just wanted to type some words D: But in an entertainment industry, all a player has to define themselves is the identity that they project. That's partly through body language but a lot by what they say (think about the number of fans MC or Parting has, largely because of the personalities they bring). If you alter the meaning of what they say, they no longer have the control of their identity. (E.G. If a player wants to be the guy that always respects their opponents and never BMs, but a translator adds in hype like "and he says he's much better so he'll win easily", then it denies that player the ability to project that identity. That can obviously effect things later on like if they want to join a team where manners are important. Not to say that Mal has done any of that, it's just not something to be taken in stride. | ||
Bowzar
Sweden741 Posts
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rikapi
United States63 Posts
This thread, oddly enough, reminds me of the most awkward question I had to interpret during my years of interpreting for GoH focus panels at various anime conventions (I started in 2001 and retired in 2012): "How do you know the interpreter is doing her job and not making things up?" (Yes, it was an actual question in a focus panel.) The flow of the thread also reminds me of how, over the years, I have been received as an interpreter: not everyone will agree with my interpretation of the Japanese. Some loved me and stayed after panels at AX just to tell me "thank you for being a wonderful interpreter", and some complained on forums that, in their light, I was "flat-out wrong". And truth be told, I've had times where I felt that a senpai interpreter misinterpreted and that I could have done better than him, so I can see why the KR/EN bilinguals who are critical of James think the way they do. First off, I think all of the KR/EN interpreters for the 2014 season are doing pretty well for having to memorize everything they're interpreting. Interpreting is a lot easier (especially in getting wording to various nuances correct) if you have pen and paper to jot down key words - and without those tools it can become very easy to miss a key word if you happen to get stuck on a different key word mid-sentence. What Waxangel said with respect to the hardcore fans unable to accept that sports in general is an entertainment business, I believe, is pretty much spot-on. I noticed how there were people looking forward to WCS-AM 2015 because there is more potential for cross-continent rivalry and more English-only trash-talking in the pregame interviews. My personal take is that Asians in general are pretty modest/humble so not much of that trash-talking will happen (outside of PartinG, that boy is a league of his own and I love him dearly for it) so I can see the desire to spice up the English a little bit while interpreting so that half of the interview doesn't sound bland compared to the other half. I think the issue here is that some think James is adding just enough spice, some think it's too much spice, and some even think no spice is necessary. I'm pretty sure that if you paid ESL to hire an "established professional interpreter", you still wouldn't get "100% accurate" interpreting because chances are very likely they'd get all the SC2 terminology wrong, and all the interviews would be so cut-and-dry (even if the Korean was actually speaking in a lively manner) that it would just not sound "right" next to a hype-filled English-only interview from the other side. Over the years, I noticed that the best interpreters always have the right mix of "correct/professional" along with "love of the subject/fan"- so for this case, it may be more of the KR/EN bilingual crowd helping James fine-tune that mixture to perfection, instead of merely criticizing him that he's overdoing it / he sucks / etc. | ||
algue
France1436 Posts
Sojung top 1 with a power gap between her and the 2nd place. | ||
TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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kaykoose
United States2300 Posts
Anyway, no questions for him but I'm a fan. He's energetic and the players like him. | ||
LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
Secondly, what is his situation job-wise ? Is he only working in esports ? Is he a translator/interpret exclusively or does he have other activities ? | ||
slit
Spain212 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On September 23 2014 21:06 kaykoose wrote: Have English speaking Koreans actually confirmed that James is adding things to the translations? I have yet to see any examples of this in the posts... I believe these are the posts that made some people question James' translating : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=5#93 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=6#101 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=203#4052 | ||
Yakikorosu
1203 Posts
On September 23 2014 22:42 OtherWorld wrote: I believe these are the posts that made some people question James' translating : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=5#93 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=6#101 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=203#4052 Can anyone who actually knows Korean weigh in on this? These posts are all of the "I checked with this guy I know who speaks Korean" variety which is a lot less reliable, and "'There's no I in team' is not a Korean saying" is not in itself a valid criticism of a translation since he might have just translated a Korean saying into its closest English equivalent which is a perfectly valid thing to do. Having done translation myself (not from Korean) banter and cultural expressions can be VERY difficult to translate into another language, and even words that can be translated literally are often best not translated literally since they have a different connotation in the native language than a literal translation would suggest. But if he's not just "embellishing" while keeping the same meaning but is really making crap up (like adding an insult to foreign players to Life's response as mentioned in the links) that's terrible and unprofessional. It has nothing to do with "entertainment" and anyone arguing that is crazy. He's putting words in other people's mouths and misrepresenting them if he's doing that, and is doing a huge disservice to the scene. Koreans are already notoriously reluctant to share opinions, if they find out that some crazy guy is making up their interview translations they will just stop doing interviews entirely (that's what I'd do in their place--who knows what kind of crazy thing he will ascribe to me that everyone will believe I said). | ||
KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On September 23 2014 22:42 OtherWorld wrote: I believe these are the posts that made some people question James' translating : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=5#93 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=6#101 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/465964-iem-season-ix-toronto-day-4?page=203#4052 From what I see here, he only adds things to make interviews more awesome. Life 'says' that foreigners are terrible in an interview? I don't really see that as an insult, nor it changes the opinion I have of him. Koreans like MC and PartinG trash talk just to make everything funnier and please the fans. That's why everyone loves them. Koreans are already notoriously reluctant to share opinions, if they find out that some crazy guy is making up their interview translations they will just stop doing interviews entirely (that's what I'd do in their place--who knows what kind of crazy thing he will ascribe to me that everyone will believe I said). James is also Korean. He is probably close with many of the players. | ||
FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On September 24 2014 00:39 KingAlphard wrote: From what I see here, he only adds things to make interviews more awesome. Life 'says' that foreigners are terrible in an interview? I don't really see that as an insult, nor it changes the opinion I have of him. Koreans like MC and PartinG trash talk just to make everything funnier and please the fans. That's why everyone loves them. James is also Korean. He is probably close with many of the players. You are a terrible poster. Does it strike as an insult ? I'm sure it has. (i wasn't serious by the way). But you see the point. Since i'm not speaking koreans, i skip/don't listen to his interviews/translation because i'm not even sure this is "my player" talking. Even if it's embelishing. For exemple : "My macro is godlier" sounds arrogant and we know Flash is really humble. It works when it's PartinG because we know he his like that. But you can't make up a personality. If the guy is shy and don't want to share opinion. Well... you have to translate it. You can't make up things. But he is new so maybe he will find the balance to "more exiting" but "real". So my question to him would be : "What do you answer to those of us who are not happy because you embelish translation ? Are we wrong ? If so, why ?" I know that this is 3 questions | ||
pajoondies
United States316 Posts
On September 23 2014 18:53 rikapi wrote: inb4 a JP/EN interpreter's wall of text... This thread, oddly enough, reminds me of the most awkward question I had to interpret during my years of interpreting for GoH focus panels at various anime conventions (I started in 2001 and retired in 2012): "How do you know the interpreter is doing her job and not making things up?" (Yes, it was an actual question in a focus panel.) The flow of the thread also reminds me of how, over the years, I have been received as an interpreter: not everyone will agree with my interpretation of the Japanese. Some loved me and stayed after panels at AX just to tell me "thank you for being a wonderful interpreter", and some complained on forums that, in their light, I was "flat-out wrong". And truth be told, I've had times where I felt that a senpai interpreter misinterpreted and that I could have done better than him, so I can see why the KR/EN bilinguals who are critical of James think the way they do. First off, I think all of the KR/EN interpreters for the 2014 season are doing pretty well for having to memorize everything they're interpreting. Interpreting is a lot easier (especially in getting wording to various nuances correct) if you have pen and paper to jot down key words - and without those tools it can become very easy to miss a key word if you happen to get stuck on a different key word mid-sentence. What Waxangel said with respect to the hardcore fans unable to accept that sports in general is an entertainment business, I believe, is pretty much spot-on. I noticed how there were people looking forward to WCS-AM 2015 because there is more potential for cross-continent rivalry and more English-only trash-talking in the pregame interviews. My personal take is that Asians in general are pretty modest/humble so not much of that trash-talking will happen (outside of PartinG, that boy is a league of his own and I love him dearly for it) so I can see the desire to spice up the English a little bit while interpreting so that half of the interview doesn't sound bland compared to the other half. I think the issue here is that some think James is adding just enough spice, some think it's too much spice, and some even think no spice is necessary. I'm pretty sure that if you paid ESL to hire an "established professional interpreter", you still wouldn't get "100% accurate" interpreting because chances are very likely they'd get all the SC2 terminology wrong, and all the interviews would be so cut-and-dry (even if the Korean was actually speaking in a lively manner) that it would just not sound "right" next to a hype-filled English-only interview from the other side. Over the years, I noticed that the best interpreters always have the right mix of "correct/professional" along with "love of the subject/fan"- so for this case, it may be more of the KR/EN bilingual crowd helping James fine-tune that mixture to perfection, instead of merely criticizing him that he's overdoing it / he sucks / etc. I think this is an AMAZINGLY great point, thank you for sharing your experience. Can't please everyone no matter how you translate/interpret things because everyone wants something different. With that said though, I do agree that if he is perhaps changing the perceived personality of a player by adding bits and pieces to their responses during interviews, that would be bad. But it depends on how much/what kind of information he's adding, which is again subjective. Overall, I realllllly like him and what he brings to each event. | ||
mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
havent had the chance to experience Sojung's interviews got any youtube links to any of them? | ||
Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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BreAKerTV
Taiwan1656 Posts
First and foremost one must consider the quality of language skills of both languages for an interpretor / translator. I am able to converse about pretty much any game I want to. If I sit down with a player and talk strategies for a few minutes with SC2, I have no trouble with that (especially given that it is the game that I play the most, and love the most). Secondly, other things to consider with translation are the background noises of various forms: The audience going wild, people just chit-chatting in the background, and something that you guys don't hear on the streams - the echo from the speakers at the live event itself. Whatever is said at the live event in to your microphone is repeated 1 second later in your own ears. Often times, it may seem that many first time interpretors / translators may have no prior stage-translation experience. That was my case with my first offline event, so many details from interviews are left out because they are simply not audible. Other factors: some times interviews may be produced and translated from One language to another and finally in to English. That's where things get super-confusing. Example below: What I am trying to say is that in the video above, you all can hear this clearly because of course they are speaking in to microphones that 1) Don't pick up the background conversations of the audience and 2) Don't pick up the echo of the huge speakers at the front of the stage. I don't think you guys could really see it on my face, but I was also somewhat nervous. One final mistake I made: it was actually jaedong, not sen that was mentioned in the interview. How could I make that mistake? -_- | ||
KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On September 24 2014 00:57 FFW_Rude wrote: You are a terrible poster. Does it strike as an insult ? I'm sure it has. (i wasn't serious by the way). But you see the point. Since i'm not speaking koreans, i skip/don't listen to his interviews/translation because i'm not even sure this is "my player" talking. Even if it's embelishing. For exemple : "My macro is godlier" sounds arrogant and we know Flash is really humble. It works when it's PartinG because we know he his like that. But you can't make up a personality. If the guy is shy and don't want to share opinion. Well... you have to translate it. You can't make up things. But he is new so maybe he will find the balance to "more exiting" but "real". So my question to him would be : "What do you answer to those of us who are not happy because you embelish translation ? Are we wrong ? If so, why ?" I know that this is 3 questions Yes, it did strike as an insult. But you also need to consider the context in which a sentence is spoken. People are used to trash talks in interviews during e-sports events. Obviously you need to draw a line, I'm not saying that what he does is just 'right'. But maybe James is moved by the passion for his job when he does this, as a translator he wants the events to be as exciting as possible for the spectators, and in order to achieve this he tries to make the interviews a bit more spicy and entertaining. Also, what if the players know that James makes up things sometimes? Maybe they don't want to pronounce those things by themselves, but they are ok with the translator telling them on his own. | ||
FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
The problem with "context in which a sentence is spoken" it's an interview. That's the context. So player can be cocky, or be humble. But don't make that up. Also no... People are used to trash talking in boxing, or in esport StreetFighter games (that's the only game i really saw that many trash talk). Even in BW there was not really trash talk (there was some. Stork took it hard with some other guy that i don't remember for exemple). It's pretty rare to hear some. (unless MC, PartinG or back in the day Naniwa and iDra but i'm not even sure they were BM during interviews). In stork case i think he even apologized for his trash talk. So it's not THAT usual | ||
AWalker9
United Kingdom7229 Posts
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J. Corsair
United States470 Posts
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
Why make the athlete stand there and feel awkward, just let him go and continue to make everything up if you already do that anyways o.O | ||
xtorn
4060 Posts
On September 23 2014 14:13 TRaFFiC wrote: Mistranslating is bad. However, he's by far the best translator sc2 has had. Translators in the past obviously struggle with the language and come off as nervous. His English is great (a lot of what he does is translating idioms from Korean to English) and he is confident. Imo, there is no room for nervousness in translation. It makes it so the message is unclear/weak. This He does an amazing job at leading the interviews in a relaxed way, even if it relaxes the answers too much. He just adapted to the audience. If he would translate word by word all the time, it would probably be all GL HF, I respect you etc. I've noticed a clash of culture which Mal probably recognised too: Axeltoss always asks korean players "what did u feel, were u confident" but Korean players most times just don't worry that much about confidence etc. Or they don't manifest so visibly about it, they don't express these feelings as much as western audience would like. This is what Mal does brilliantly, adds some feelings to the translations. | ||
ShadowPie
Sweden19 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On September 24 2014 20:36 SatedSC2 wrote: If that's what the players say, then that's what should be translated. Whether it is exciting to you or not is completely irrelevant =/ Agreed here. Some players are shy, others are not, why should the translator try to make every player sound like a badass rockstar instead of what he/she really is? (I mean obviously the translator can't translate word for word and has to also interpret what the player says, but part of his job is also making sure that the personality of the player doesn't change too much with the language change) | ||
digmouse
China6282 Posts
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