On May 04 2015 22:24 EarthwormJim wrote: The only real true non-bias commentators are hockey commentators. They love the game, not the teams. It shows. (I think Tastetosis comes close to this).
Bottom line, showing bias isn't professional. But these are just video games, and these guys aren't getting paid much money, so professionalism isn't exactly necessary , but preferred by some.
This is true. It's not like the casting job is very selective at the moment. Casters like to point out that they make a lot of sacrifices for eSportzz and what not, and it's true, but it's also true that they don't meet a lot of competition for casting a not-so-popular game, so the standards are high enough to mirror that (that is to say: they are pretty low :D).
lol so you're just writing a biased opinion piece that's not even your own opinion?
Also, showing a little race bias doesn't mean that the commentary still isn't invaluable. For example, iNcontroL is still one of the most entertaining casters in the business, and he sure knows what the hell he's talking about. As do Artosis, Apollo, etc.
This should just be moved to blogs imo. This is just whining.
I agree with Destructicon:
On May 04 2015 17:17 Destructicon wrote: I think its ok for casters to mention that certain maps or certain map features favor certain races or styles, it isn't bias as much as it is presenting information. I think its ok to mention that certain races are struggling at one time or another, either in general of in a specific MU, because of the meta-game. I think its even fine to say if a player is favored against another player if they cite good reasons like practice environment (Korea vs EU, team house vs home practice) etc. What I do hate is overhyping certain players because the casters just love them or because they are foreigners. Yeah we get it, you like them, you can mention it a couple of times but for the love of god don't make the entire cast about them.
Overall though the quality of casters has generally gone up.
It's a little late for calling out commentators on race bias. They got away with it for years and aren't going to change now. Besides - foreigner bias has always been much bigger problem with casters.
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays. They were awesome before, like I mentioned. But there are just better casters now, with more knowledge, that don't spend a whole game talking about Pokemon or Game of Thrones.
Speaking of Commentator Bias, there is a point I want to bring up. The most disgusting bias I have ever seen has come from mister Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski, 2014 Blizzcon Ro.16. The match was TaeJa vs soO, one of the greatest TvZs I've seen my entire life, between the biggest Kong in sc2, soO with 4 consecutives GSL Finals, and TaeJa, one of the most talented players in the history of the game.
This was a wicked match, with the first game starting with a 2 rax proxy that led into a 35 minute blood bath. And that wasn't even the most epic game of the series.
However I was constantly annoyed by Artosis' commentary. He actually said at one point that soO reaching 4 consecutive GSL Finals is the greatest achievement of any Starcraft player.
Obviously, to me anyway, TaeJa went on to win the game, since he has that much more international tournament experience, and being the monster that he is. This was another example on the commentary of Artosis, whenever there is a strong out-of-Korea player playing against one of the GSL regulars (except maybe for Jaedong). Standing on his high horse, the international player shouldn't even be in the same room as the KeSPA player, is mr. Artosis' opinion. Much less actually compete with him.
On May 04 2015 16:10 Apom wrote: I don't watch English commentary anymore now that O'Gaming has coverage of pretty much everything. I'd say the only caster with race bias in their team is Moman (and even then it comes across as laughing, not whining). So... not a problem for me =)
It's not even possible to dislike Moman if you tried. The man is a legend.
Personally I like if casters voice their opinions. A lot of times it's better than just looking at obviously broken thing and complementing the player that is currently abusing it. But sometimes too much salt is too much. Casters step on shaky ground voicing their opinions, they get points if audience agrees and lose them if don't. For some people that don't understand the game very well, casters might lose points either way.
Nathanias and Demuslim gained a lot of points for me while casting one older LotV tournament and analyzing imbalances, which were pretty spot on.
PS: I writing about "talking about balance". Bias is obviously something different. Just saying one player is stronger, the map is broken isn't a biased opinion. At the end of Wol Z was OP, early Hots T was OP. Those things aren't the best thing to say for caster, but they are true.
I think even some bias is ok. Although it really depends on the caster, if you expect bias, it's fine (eg IdrA, Nightend casting). If it's served unnoticed, it's bad.
It'd be weird to watch a football match where the commentator was obviously favouring one side over the other - for clubs, anyhow. International matches often sees the respective language commentator favouring their country.
That said, I think most caster race bias is normally light hearted and said for comic effect rather than serious whining. When they joke about Protoss all ins or whatever I don't think it's meant to be serious "OMG SO IMBA" whining, just a little tongue-in-cheek joke to keep things amusing.
I also watch a lot of CSGO (I work from home - a stream on in the background is the norm), the commentating there is 1st rate in my opinion - very little player, team, side bias.
I really like all the casters I listed. Its just that I hate it when they go all butt hurt~~
CSGO has a role reversal so its hard to balance whine.
I really like balance whine, it is easily noticed as such and often you actually can back your whine up by stats. I would like a concrete example of the bias you dislike.
Personally I like for example a Rotti X Nathanias where both complain about each others race.
I dont care about the bias of casters, but i do care about passion. Good example is Apollo during the challenger rounds of EU. To me it felt he didnt want to be there, didnt enjoy the games, till the moment he could talk about himself. Thats what make me wanna turn off the stream, not bias in the current form.
On May 05 2015 01:25 PinoKotsBeer wrote: I dont care about the bias of casters, but i do care about passion. Good example is Apollo during the challenger rounds of EU. To me it felt he didnt want to be there, didnt enjoy the games, till the moment he could talk about himself. Thats what make me wanna turn off the stream, not bias in the current form.
It seems like every caster wants to be an analyst these days, it's okay to be play-by-play. In fact I think that side is most important and should be a must have for every cast. Best of both worlds is of course optimal.
On May 04 2015 23:56 Naikonz wrote: Speaking of Commentator Bias, there is a point I want to bring up. The most disgusting bias I have ever seen has come from mister Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski, 2014 Blizzcon Ro.16. The match was TaeJa vs soO, one of the greatest TvZs I've seen my entire life, between the biggest Kong in sc2, soO with 4 consecutives GSL Finals, and TaeJa, one of the most talented players in the history of the game.
This was a wicked match, with the first game starting with a 2 rax proxy that led into a 35 minute blood bath. And that wasn't even the most epic game of the series.
However I was constantly annoyed by Artosis' commentary. He actually said at one point that soO reaching 4 consecutive GSL Finals is the greatest achievement of any Starcraft player.
Obviously, to me anyway, TaeJa went on to win the game, since he has that much more international tournament experience, and being the monster that he is. This was another example on the commentary of Artosis, whenever there is a strong out-of-Korea player playing against one of the GSL regulars (except maybe for Jaedong). Standing on his high horse, the international player shouldn't even be in the same room as the KeSPA player, is mr. Artosis' opinion. Much less actually compete with him.
Yeah, Artosis is quite guilty of this at various points in his casting career. The most hilarious part was when Flash faced Shine in I can't remember what GSL. And ol'Arti was hyping the fuck out of Flash, mostly based off past success *cough* BW *cough*. He refused to believe Flash was playing bad, even when it became apparent that Shine was wiping the floor with him. Then Artosis totally lost it in Game 3 on Frost because Shine was beating Flash in a straight up macro game with, ling, bling muta.
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like, OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
You'd rather have this?
On May 04 2015 17:16 Isualin wrote: This gem by Chill came to my mind after reading the title
On May 04 2015 23:33 Julek wrote: Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays.
I haven't started watching the Code S groups for this season yet, but this is simply not true.
Also, why do people keep writing "Wolfe" when it's "Wolf"?
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like, OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
On May 04 2015 23:33 Julek wrote: Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays.
I haven't started watching the Code S groups for this season yet, but this is simply not true.
Also, why do people keep writing "Wolfe" when it's "Wolf"?
I'm not trying to knock Tastosis or anything, man. Their casts are just predictable, and their strategic thinking is not all there. Plenty of people have agreed with these two points throughout the thread.
Artosis has a few things that you can safely bet he'll say at one point or another throughout a cast.
1) This is a build that X was doing back in WoL <--- Usually about Terran builds.
2) I have high hopes for Y. I have been keeping my eye on him and I know he's ready. Royal roader, for sure. <--- Usually about a new player who has gone on a small winstreak.
3) X has no chance. Y will win no matter what. <--- ANY match where one player is not in a Kespa team, or lives in Korea, and is fighting a foreigner/korean who left to Europe/US.
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like, OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
You'd rather have this?
On May 04 2015 17:16 Isualin wrote: This gem by Chill came to my mind after reading the title
On May 04 2015 23:33 Julek wrote: Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays.
I haven't started watching the Code S groups for this season yet, but this is simply not true.
Also, why do people keep writing "Wolfe" when it's "Wolf"?
I'm not trying to knock Tastosis or anything, man. Their casts are just predictable, and their strategic thinking is not all there. Plenty of people have agreed with these two points throughout the thread.
Artosis has a few things that you can safely bet he'll say at one point or another throughout a cast.
1) This is a build that X was doing back in WoL <--- Usually about Terran builds.
2) I have high hopes for Y. I have been keeping my eye on him and I know he's ready. Royal roader, for sure. <--- Usually about a new player who has gone on a small winstreak.
3) X has no chance. Y will win no matter what. <--- ANY match where one player is not in a Kespa team, or lives in Korea, and is fighting a foreigner/korean who left to Europe/US.
I didn't see that game before, but I have read about it. I think it was indeed not fair to hype soO up exclusively even though TaeJa was clearly the better player. In retrospect, it was probably a mistake, but I hope you agree that being in 4 consecutive GSL Code S finals is an achievement that cannot be understated.
I'm sure any caster will eventually have some phrases they repeat. There are only so many ways to describe a 1rax FE/the potential of a player that is relatively new on the scene/the often undeniable skillgap between top Koreans and top non-Koreans. After casting Terrans going 1rax FE for ~5 years, I'm sure anyone would run out of ways to inform the audience that the follow up could be either more raxes, a factory or a third command center. (Disclaimer: I don't play Terran, so my analysis on Terran BOs may not be spot on.)
I personally prefer not to be overflown with facts about the game constantly; that gets old quite quickly. Happily there is a middle ground between ignoring the game completely while talking about a TV series, and stating facts ("minerals being mined") and pure game analysis. To be honest, I think that the casters you and other people in this thread view as biased/offtopic manage to stay on this middle ground successfully most of the time.