I watch a lot of SC2. I mean...it is a little bit embarrassing how much SC2 I watch. All Proleague, all GSL, all WCS, all tournies that award WCS points, even most qualifiers...
Why do I say this? It is just to introduce myself a little and to show that I am familiar with SC2 esports as it is presented by English casters.
Now one thing that really really really yanks my chain and totally detracts from my viewing experience is commentator bias. You know when you are watching a sweet match say between Maru and Byul, and Moonglade is like: "yeah this map needs to be changed to balance it in favor of zergs," or you're watching MMA v Parting and Apollo goes "Protoss has all the questions and Terran has only two answers."
Now I get it ok. Casters are people and people are entitled to their opinions and personal choices (lol). But I for one really dislike the caster watering up with butt hurt expressions over race and balance in live casts. There are forums and arenas for that and a live cast is not one them.
That said, I want everyone to rank these casters in order of Race Bias (most bias to least). Note: this list is not my order.
Rotti Nathanias Incontrol Tasteless Artosis Apollo Moonglade Wolfe Kaelaris Valdes Rifkin ZG Khaldor
Nope. And a little personal opinion in a cast is no problem for me, I actually like it that most SC2casters are somewhat unprofessional in that sense. You should watch an FGC-tournament (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc.) for comparison, your brain will explode XD.
On May 04 2015 16:05 Shkudde wrote: Nope. And a little personal opinion in a cast is no problem for me, I actually like it that most SC2casters are somewhat unprofessional in that sense. You should watch an FGC-tournament (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc.) for comparison, your brain will explode XD.
I also watch a lot of CSGO (I work from home - a stream on in the background is the norm), the commentating there is 1st rate in my opinion - very little player, team, side bias.
I really like all the casters I listed. Its just that I hate it when they go all butt hurt~~
I don't watch English commentary anymore now that O'Gaming has coverage of pretty much everything. I'd say the only caster with race bias in their team is Moman (and even then it comes across as laughing, not whining). So... not a problem for me =)
I don't think they need to be completely unbiased, having favorites also adds a little bit of flavor to me(in the fanboy sense), though balance complaints can be somewhat hype killing.
On May 04 2015 16:10 Apom wrote: I don't watch English commentary anymore now that O'Gaming has coverage of pretty much everything. I'd say the only caster with race bias in their team is Moman (and even then it comes across as laughing, not whining). So... not a problem for me =)
I too like to watch O'gaming. I can only understand a little French but those dudes are funny and always enjoyable.
Not everything is bias tbh. Sometimes saying that a race has an on a map advantage is fine (although that Moonglade example is abit too far). Blatant race whine is pretty disgusting though.
Also regarding the list, id put Rifkin, Artosis and ZG abit higher and maybe tasteless down abit
On May 04 2015 16:12 annedeman wrote: I don't think they need to be completely unbiased, having favorites also adds a little bit of flavor to me, though balance complaints can be somewhat hype killing.
Very much so man. Balance complaints are not cool mid game. Now I get it if there is down time, but honestly in game it is terrabad.
On May 04 2015 16:14 GreenMash wrote: Not everything is bias tbh. Sometimes saying that a race has an on a map advantage is fine (although that Moonglade example is abit too far). Blatant race whine is pretty disgusting though.
Also regarding the list, id put Rifkin, Artosis and ZG abit higher and maybe tasteless down abit
Yeah , That is not my list.
My list is like this:
1) Khaldor 2) Moonglade (great caster otherwise) 3) Nathanias 4) Rifkin 5) Arty (still the best caster though imo) 6) Incontrol (no one gets as butthurt) 7) Apollo (great caster otherwise though) 8) Rotti (one of the best casters for sure) 9) ZG (sorry but she is great!!!) 10) Wolfe (really good) 11) Kaelaris (I hear he is in Gold league anyway bless him hehehe)
On May 04 2015 16:30 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Let casters be people too, weve already had the "generic every caster is a clone"-phase and let me tell you, it was really effing boring.
Yeh I really don't want clone casters...but I wish they would bring their positive personalities to the table as opposed to their own butt hurt experiences.
To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
On May 04 2015 16:46 Gwavajuice wrote: To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
Yeah I have felt this too, I wish Apollo would cast in Korea. Even though he is bias hard at times, he is still a top level Terran caster. And I am pretty sure that if there was a caster competition, he would win it.
On May 04 2015 16:46 Gwavajuice wrote: To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
Yeah I have felt this too, I wish Apollo would cast in Korea. Even though he is bias hard at times, he is still a top level Terran caster.
On May 04 2015 16:46 Gwavajuice wrote: To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
Yeah I have felt this too, I wish Apollo would cast in Korea. Even though he is bias hard at times, he is still a top level Terran caster.
Apollo plays Zerg.
Apollo plays all three races. Has accounts with all three races in M.
On May 04 2015 16:46 Gwavajuice wrote: To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
Yeah I have felt this too, I wish Apollo would cast in Korea. Even though he is bias hard at times, he is still a top level Terran caster.
Apollo plays Zerg.
Apollo plays random. Has accounts with all three races in M.
He at least mained Zerg for the first couple of years of SC2, that means he has Zerg blood in him.
On May 04 2015 16:46 Gwavajuice wrote: To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
That's exactly how I feel. Especially Wolf and Valdez aren't a good combo in a terran MU.
In general, I don't care too much if they're biased. I want to listen to guys with good game knowledge and entertaining skills.
I don't like race bias but the example you bring are in my opinion not really race bias.
You bring up apollo for being biased towards terran? Recently Apollo has been a zerg or a random player, why would be biased towards terrans?
The map moonglade was talking about, is the win percent skewed towards terran in tvz? Are there any foundation to his claim? You don't know if its bias, it could be but might as well be very well studied truth.
Casting is always based on opinions, its just a question of liking some peoples opinions more or less. Biased is not what you are making examples of here, bias is taking sides. Commentating from only the viewpoint of one the players.
"If only zerg makes spore crawlers here, he has to do x to defend this terran all in. He missed to scout the X thats why he lost, really nice creep spread from X" Not ever talking about the opposing player, his viewpoint or talking in a way that shows bias. In other words prefering one player to win over another, "too bad he didn't build more queens damnit" thats bias. Not mentioning skewed win percents on certain maps.
I don't watch much SC2 anymore. I used to watch everything I could find in Wings of Liberty and the beginning half of Heart of the Swarm, but not much anymore as a lot of them retired. What I watch nowadays depends on the player who's playing or the commentator. I enjoy listening to an Apollo / Artosis duo. Incontrol is sometimes enjoyable to listen to and Nathanius is a good caster.
This gem by Chill came to my mind after reading the title Race and player bias will obviously happen and it is not a problem imo. But if all the casters are defending the same player or race it turns into a circlejerk.
On May 04 2015 16:46 Gwavajuice wrote: To me atm the problem is more the lack of good terran casting korean competitions, Moonglade has incredible knowledge about zergs ofc, tastosis is still very good on protoss, btu when in comes to analysing a terran game, the skill goes down.
And when it's TvT... time to switch to O'gaming to hear Funka cast
to really make Terran shine you need sky high APM...and if u personally possess APM less than half of the player you are analysing.. well...it gets tough.
it reminds me of a saying Artosis had about Flash along the lines of: "you won't understand what Flash is doing and why he makes the decisions he makes.. unless you can play with his APM and make as many decisions as he makes in any 10 second time frame"
realizing this, i don't expect an epiphany filled learning experience while listening to the people on the list cast Terran. Every commentator on the list does enough things right to keep me listening though.
At least no one will be as biased as Mr. Bitter. Sometimes I felt like I was being invited to An Evening With Zerg whenever I tuned in to NASL. That having been said, as a zerg, I loved it.
I think its ok for casters to mention that certain maps or certain map features favor certain races or styles, it isn't bias as much as it is presenting information. I think its ok to mention that certain races are struggling at one time or another, either in general of in a specific MU, because of the meta-game. I think its even fine to say if a player is favored against another player if they cite good reasons like practice environment (Korea vs EU, team house vs home practice) etc. What I do hate is overhyping certain players because the casters just love them or because they are foreigners. Yeah we get it, you like them, you can mention it a couple of times but for the love of god don't make the entire cast about them.
Overall though the quality of casters has generally gone up.
Does anyone remember who did that unbiased commentator satire video? Was it Chill? It was someone from back in the day (2011, lol [lol means that its sarcasm and that back in the day doesn't mean much in sc2, it was a joke]
Balance whine is race bias but there are more telling examples of that. If you really want to address the topic, look at how people describe the actions of players. Notice how yesterday, to Wolf, Soulkey was "committing" vs PartinG, while PartinG was "putting it all in" when he counterattacked afterwards? Notice how when a protoss all-ins, to some casters, it's because he "can't beat the other player in a macro game", while for other races, it's to "surprise their opponent"? I'm more sensitive to these types of comments because I always root for protoss, but I'm sure you can find the same type of things for other races for other casters. These influence the way the community sees the game, but are also influenced by the community. There is a chicken & egg thing going on, what started it, was it the casters bashing on players like Has, or was it the community bashing them, and the casters hopping on the train? I don't really know. It makes sense that when you are casting a game of Has to a community who thinks he's ridiculous, you won't treat him the same as you treat Innovation.
My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
On May 04 2015 18:17 tshi wrote: Does anyone remember who did that unbiased commentator satire video? Was it Chill? It was someone from back in the day (2011, lol [lol means that its sarcasm and that back in the day doesn't mean much in sc2, it was a joke]
On May 04 2015 18:50 Nebuchad wrote: Balance whine is race bias but there are more telling examples of that. If you really want to address the topic, look at how people describe the actions of players. Notice how yesterday, to Wolf, Soulkey was "committing" vs PartinG, while PartinG was "putting it all in" when he counterattacked afterwards? Notice how when a protoss all-ins, to some casters, it's because he "can't beat the other player in a macro game", while for other races, it's to "surprise their opponent"? I'm more sensitive to these types of comments because I always root for protoss, but I'm sure you can find the same type of things for other races for other casters. These influence the way the community sees the game, but are also influenced by the community. There is a chicken & egg thing going on, what started it, was it the casters bashing on players like Has, or was it the community bashing them, and the casters hopping on the train? I don't really know. It makes sense that when you are casting a game of Has to a community who thinks he's ridiculous, you won't treat him the same as you treat Innovation.
You don't seem to understand. Zerg commits to a 6 pool, but Protoss goes allin on proxy oracle. You need to work on your basics of SC2
Kaelaris Rotti Nathanias Artosis Khaldor Rifkin ZG Valdes Incontrol Moonglade Wolfe Apollo Tasteless
This is how I rate them. On the top - most biased, on the bottom least biased. It also absolutely resembles my opinion of who the best casters and the worst casters are (Only from the list OP posted). The best are Tasteless and Apollo and the worst are the ones I put on top. Many people may not agree with me, but I don't care.
I prefer a bunch of gamers talking about games. I prefer bias or transparency because at the very least there is discussion.
or would you prefer we go back to the Day9/Artosis of the broodlord infestor era? Everyone knew there was a problem. zergs, audience, casuals; but no commentator discussed the elephant in the room. It was just taboo.
On May 04 2015 19:28 StackerTwo wrote: I prefer a bunch of gamers talking about games. I prefer bias or transparency because at the very least there is discussion.
or would you prefer we go back to the Day9/Artosis of the broodlord infestor era? Everyone knew there was a problem. zergs, audience, casuals; but no commentator discussed the elephant in the room. It was just taboo.
yeah, that's another good point. "SIIIICK FUNGALS!!!" was a bit weird during later stages of WoL. moonglade is actually adressing the recent zerg nerf (I'm not calling it a SH nerf on purpose) and I like it as long it's not a whine etc.
In this regard I think it's best to ask questions that don't need to be answered. ppl will know :-)
Sometimes this bias is annoying and not appropriate, yes. But sometimes casters are mentioning facts that should not be categorized as bias. Not that simple. What I find more annoying is that some casters have no clue what they are talking about. So casters I like to listen to are very few. I enjoy listening to pro-players, it's much more insightful. But that's just me.
On May 04 2015 18:17 tshi wrote: Does anyone remember who did that unbiased commentator satire video? Was it Chill? It was someone from back in the day (2011, lol [lol means that its sarcasm and that back in the day doesn't mean much in sc2, it was a joke]
its linked above dude,,,it was Chill
I didnt see it cuz i was looking for an embedded video. =S
Also, lol. There's a lot of people who didn't like it.
I don't have problems with a caster that goes "this is really strong in this map", "I die to this in the ladder all the time" or "that is a really dirty build" because it shows that they play the game a lot and thus have very good knowleadge of the game. And its waaay better than a generic caster than simply describe things, not shitting on hype casters tho, its just that I like casters that know their shit because thay actually put a lot of hours playing the game.
On May 04 2015 17:17 Destructicon wrote: I think its ok for casters to mention that certain maps or certain map features favor certain races or styles, it isn't bias as much as it is presenting information. I think its ok to mention that certain races are struggling at one time or another, either in general of in a specific MU, because of the meta-game. I think its even fine to say if a player is favored against another player if they cite good reasons like practice environment (Korea vs EU, team house vs home practice) etc. What I do hate is overhyping certain players because the casters just love them or because they are foreigners. Yeah we get it, you like them, you can mention it a couple of times but for the love of god don't make the entire cast about them.
Overall though the quality of casters has generally gone up.
pretty much my thoughts verbatim. sometimes single player hype goes over the top but i tend to think they do a pretty good job with this stuff (i mainly watch gsl and proleague)
On May 04 2015 20:51 Phaenoman wrote: What I find more annoying is that some casters have no clue what they are talking about. So casters I like to listen to are very few. I enjoy listening to pro-players, it's much more insightful. But that's just me.
Its not just you. Always annoying when someone who job is a full time caster gets his only ingame knowledge from playing the game for 30minutes per week. Or maybe sometimes taking a 3 months break from playing all together while still casting. I would expect them to take some time to actually research the game and the players. Then we get these gems when they dont know the attributes (armored, light etc.) of units or how much do some units cost. Like I understand that sometimes you make mistakes, but somehow some casters seem like they know absolutely nothing about the game except they can tell when an unit dies and they can say that out loud. Pro players always make the best casters, the higher level the better. As in not some "personalities" like incontrol or destiny.
Absolutely nothing wrong with bias. Especially foreigner bias what the poster above mentioned. If anything the caster openly supporting the same player as I do only makes the cast better. And usually it tends to be the foreigner over the korean.
On May 04 2015 17:17 Destructicon wrote: I think its ok for casters to mention that certain maps or certain map features favor certain races or styles, it isn't bias as much as it is presenting information. I think its ok to mention that certain races are struggling at one time or another, either in general of in a specific MU, because of the meta-game. I think its even fine to say if a player is favored against another player if they cite good reasons like practice environment (Korea vs EU, team house vs home practice) etc. What I do hate is overhyping certain players because the casters just love them or because they are foreigners. Yeah we get it, you like them, you can mention it a couple of times but for the love of god don't make the entire cast about them.
Overall though the quality of casters has generally gone up.
pretty much my thoughts verbatim. sometimes single player hype goes over the top but i tend to think they do a pretty good job with this stuff (i mainly watch gsl and proleague)
I'm fine with some fanboism regarding certain players (for example, "flash is god") and as with Destructicon and Zephyr, I'm fine with explaining how maps and their features favor certain races or play styles or how certain mistakes made by players will strategically affect the game. In fact, I think it would be bad and uninteresting if every map was created with the goal of creating a perfect 1/3 split of win rates between the three races.
That said, that isn't what the OP seems to be talking about when he/she says "bias". The way he/she seems to be explaining what he/she calls "bias" is balance whining resulting from a biased view of overall game balance and/or player bashing. I agree with the OP that balance whining kills the mood (as does player bashing) and should never be part of a cast, especially casts of leagues as big as WCS/SPL/GSL/3SL/IEM/DH/etc... While I don't think that uncalled for over-hyping is a good thing, it is the caster's job to analyze the game in service of selling the tournament to the viewers. Casters are hired by tournaments because effective casting and presentation increase the number of customers (viewers) consuming their product (the tournament). Dishonesty is wrong but poor salesman-ship is unprofessional, to say the least. If I were a tournament organizer and I hired a caster who understood Starcraft better than anyone else and explained it more effectively than anyone else but talked about how bad they thought SC2 was or how they thought the games at the tournament were of low quality, I would still never hire them again. There are appropriate times and places for criticism of SC2 (and its balance) or the tournament (or venting about the skill level of players) but in the middle of a broadcast isn't one of them.
I agree that it's fine for casters to say "This map is favoured for x" or "X has a hard time vs y for z reason", but individual player hype really goes over the top a lot.
On May 04 2015 16:05 Shkudde wrote: Nope. And a little personal opinion in a cast is no problem for me, I actually like it that most SC2casters are somewhat unprofessional in that sense. You should watch an FGC-tournament (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc.) for comparison, your brain will explode XD.
I also watch a lot of CSGO (I work from home - a stream on in the background is the norm), the commentating there is 1st rate in my opinion - very little player, team, side bias.
I really like all the casters I listed. Its just that I hate it when they go all butt hurt~~
Judging on your csgo viewer experience you probably should be aware that there is no such thing as balance in csgo, therefore there not so much to complain about. Unless someone complains about cts being harder, which isn't balance whine as both teams play both sides during the match. You can't achieve the same thing in sc2 unfortunately, and comparison isn't really gonna show anything.
I still remember Khaldor in complete denial during casts at the end of 2012. He pretty much coined the term "Beautiful fungal!". That being said, I really don't have any problem with it. People have opinions, casters have the right to have theirs too. I could even bear Artosis trashing MarineKing back in the day :D
As long as it doesn't go way over the top I don't really care if they have a bit of balance bias, and listening to casters overhyping a player can be pretty entertaining (at least when it's somewhat justified). Not to mention it really adds to the eventual upset (think Sjow vs Life).
What I occasionally find somewhat annoying are attempts at creating "fake" tension, when it really isn't all that tense, sometimes even pretty one sided. Apollo, InControl and ZG are good examples of casters I find being able to just point out the elephant without killing the mood.
The only real true non-bias commentators are hockey commentators. They love the game, not the teams. It shows. (I think Tastetosis comes close to this).
Bottom line, showing bias isn't professional. But these are just video games, and these guys aren't getting paid much money, so professionalism isn't exactly necessary , but preferred by some.
I think it's one thing to be more knowledgable about a certain race and another to be biased towards a race. Obvious race bias ie badly disguised balance whining totally ruins it for me.
Casters are people and I think some level of bias is acceptable. Some maps are zerg favored, some are protoss favored. I don't really think that's bias but I can see how that comes off in certain situations.
My biggest pet peeve is when casters complain about work load in a passive aggressive way. A lot of people try really hard to commentate games with very few viewers at all, so that is an instant turn off for me.
On May 04 2015 16:05 Shkudde wrote: Nope. And a little personal opinion in a cast is no problem for me, I actually like it that most SC2casters are somewhat unprofessional in that sense. You should watch an FGC-tournament (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc.) for comparison, your brain will explode XD.
In fighting games, it would be unprofessional and senseless to pretend that all match ups are balanced. Because they are not. Fighting games are imbalanced. That is a fact, and every one knows it. So when an imbalanced match up is played, the commentators SHOULD discuss the imbalance, different ways to try to get around the imbalance, how imbalanced it is or is not, and why it is that way.
On May 04 2015 16:02 AxiomBlurr wrote: I watch a lot of SC2. I mean...it is a little bit embarrassing how much SC2 I watch. All Proleague, all GSL, all WCS, all tournies that award WCS points, even most qualifiers...
Why do I say this? It is just to introduce myself a little and to show that I am familiar with SC2 esports as it is presented by English casters.
Now one thing that really really really yanks my chain and totally detracts from my viewing experience is commentator bias. You know when you are watching a sweet match say between Maru and Byul, and Moonglade is like: "yeah this map needs to be changed to balance it in favor of zergs," or you're watching MMA v Parting and Apollo goes "Protoss has all the questions and Terran has only two answers."
Now I get it ok. Casters are people and people are entitled to their opinions and personal choices (lol). But I for one really dislike the caster watering up with butt hurt expressions over race and balance in live casts. There are forums and arenas for that and a live cast is not one them.
That said, I want everyone to rank these casters in order of Race Bias (most bias to least). Note: this list is not my order.
Rotti Nathanias Incontrol Tasteless Artosis Apollo Moonglade Wolfe Kaelaris Valdes Rifkin ZG Khaldor
I strongly disagree, commentator bias is my favorite thing in Esports.
SoO vs TaejA at Blizzcon casted by Artosis and Apollo, was really bad.. They rallied up and hyped SoO so hard, which is fine, but they just didn't realize what was going on and didn't adapt to hyping TaejA and it just ended up with them almost not even mentioning his name. TaejA was playing some of the best SC2 ever and so it made me really sad. Besides that I don't think there's too much caster bias, when there is it's usually to tell a story or for the humour, so it's okay.
On May 04 2015 22:24 EarthwormJim wrote: The only real true non-bias commentators are hockey commentators. They love the game, not the teams. It shows. (I think Tastetosis comes close to this).
Bottom line, showing bias isn't professional. But these are just video games, and these guys aren't getting paid much money, so professionalism isn't exactly necessary , but preferred by some.
This is true. It's not like the casting job is very selective at the moment. Casters like to point out that they make a lot of sacrifices for eSportzz and what not, and it's true, but it's also true that they don't meet a lot of competition for casting a not-so-popular game, so the standards are high enough to mirror that (that is to say: they are pretty low :D).
lol so you're just writing a biased opinion piece that's not even your own opinion?
Also, showing a little race bias doesn't mean that the commentary still isn't invaluable. For example, iNcontroL is still one of the most entertaining casters in the business, and he sure knows what the hell he's talking about. As do Artosis, Apollo, etc.
This should just be moved to blogs imo. This is just whining.
I agree with Destructicon:
On May 04 2015 17:17 Destructicon wrote: I think its ok for casters to mention that certain maps or certain map features favor certain races or styles, it isn't bias as much as it is presenting information. I think its ok to mention that certain races are struggling at one time or another, either in general of in a specific MU, because of the meta-game. I think its even fine to say if a player is favored against another player if they cite good reasons like practice environment (Korea vs EU, team house vs home practice) etc. What I do hate is overhyping certain players because the casters just love them or because they are foreigners. Yeah we get it, you like them, you can mention it a couple of times but for the love of god don't make the entire cast about them.
Overall though the quality of casters has generally gone up.
It's a little late for calling out commentators on race bias. They got away with it for years and aren't going to change now. Besides - foreigner bias has always been much bigger problem with casters.
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays. They were awesome before, like I mentioned. But there are just better casters now, with more knowledge, that don't spend a whole game talking about Pokemon or Game of Thrones.
Speaking of Commentator Bias, there is a point I want to bring up. The most disgusting bias I have ever seen has come from mister Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski, 2014 Blizzcon Ro.16. The match was TaeJa vs soO, one of the greatest TvZs I've seen my entire life, between the biggest Kong in sc2, soO with 4 consecutives GSL Finals, and TaeJa, one of the most talented players in the history of the game.
This was a wicked match, with the first game starting with a 2 rax proxy that led into a 35 minute blood bath. And that wasn't even the most epic game of the series.
However I was constantly annoyed by Artosis' commentary. He actually said at one point that soO reaching 4 consecutive GSL Finals is the greatest achievement of any Starcraft player.
Obviously, to me anyway, TaeJa went on to win the game, since he has that much more international tournament experience, and being the monster that he is. This was another example on the commentary of Artosis, whenever there is a strong out-of-Korea player playing against one of the GSL regulars (except maybe for Jaedong). Standing on his high horse, the international player shouldn't even be in the same room as the KeSPA player, is mr. Artosis' opinion. Much less actually compete with him.
On May 04 2015 16:10 Apom wrote: I don't watch English commentary anymore now that O'Gaming has coverage of pretty much everything. I'd say the only caster with race bias in their team is Moman (and even then it comes across as laughing, not whining). So... not a problem for me =)
It's not even possible to dislike Moman if you tried. The man is a legend.
Personally I like if casters voice their opinions. A lot of times it's better than just looking at obviously broken thing and complementing the player that is currently abusing it. But sometimes too much salt is too much. Casters step on shaky ground voicing their opinions, they get points if audience agrees and lose them if don't. For some people that don't understand the game very well, casters might lose points either way.
Nathanias and Demuslim gained a lot of points for me while casting one older LotV tournament and analyzing imbalances, which were pretty spot on.
PS: I writing about "talking about balance". Bias is obviously something different. Just saying one player is stronger, the map is broken isn't a biased opinion. At the end of Wol Z was OP, early Hots T was OP. Those things aren't the best thing to say for caster, but they are true.
I think even some bias is ok. Although it really depends on the caster, if you expect bias, it's fine (eg IdrA, Nightend casting). If it's served unnoticed, it's bad.
It'd be weird to watch a football match where the commentator was obviously favouring one side over the other - for clubs, anyhow. International matches often sees the respective language commentator favouring their country.
That said, I think most caster race bias is normally light hearted and said for comic effect rather than serious whining. When they joke about Protoss all ins or whatever I don't think it's meant to be serious "OMG SO IMBA" whining, just a little tongue-in-cheek joke to keep things amusing.
I also watch a lot of CSGO (I work from home - a stream on in the background is the norm), the commentating there is 1st rate in my opinion - very little player, team, side bias.
I really like all the casters I listed. Its just that I hate it when they go all butt hurt~~
CSGO has a role reversal so its hard to balance whine.
I really like balance whine, it is easily noticed as such and often you actually can back your whine up by stats. I would like a concrete example of the bias you dislike.
Personally I like for example a Rotti X Nathanias where both complain about each others race.
I dont care about the bias of casters, but i do care about passion. Good example is Apollo during the challenger rounds of EU. To me it felt he didnt want to be there, didnt enjoy the games, till the moment he could talk about himself. Thats what make me wanna turn off the stream, not bias in the current form.
On May 05 2015 01:25 PinoKotsBeer wrote: I dont care about the bias of casters, but i do care about passion. Good example is Apollo during the challenger rounds of EU. To me it felt he didnt want to be there, didnt enjoy the games, till the moment he could talk about himself. Thats what make me wanna turn off the stream, not bias in the current form.
It seems like every caster wants to be an analyst these days, it's okay to be play-by-play. In fact I think that side is most important and should be a must have for every cast. Best of both worlds is of course optimal.
On May 04 2015 23:56 Naikonz wrote: Speaking of Commentator Bias, there is a point I want to bring up. The most disgusting bias I have ever seen has come from mister Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski, 2014 Blizzcon Ro.16. The match was TaeJa vs soO, one of the greatest TvZs I've seen my entire life, between the biggest Kong in sc2, soO with 4 consecutives GSL Finals, and TaeJa, one of the most talented players in the history of the game.
This was a wicked match, with the first game starting with a 2 rax proxy that led into a 35 minute blood bath. And that wasn't even the most epic game of the series.
However I was constantly annoyed by Artosis' commentary. He actually said at one point that soO reaching 4 consecutive GSL Finals is the greatest achievement of any Starcraft player.
Obviously, to me anyway, TaeJa went on to win the game, since he has that much more international tournament experience, and being the monster that he is. This was another example on the commentary of Artosis, whenever there is a strong out-of-Korea player playing against one of the GSL regulars (except maybe for Jaedong). Standing on his high horse, the international player shouldn't even be in the same room as the KeSPA player, is mr. Artosis' opinion. Much less actually compete with him.
Yeah, Artosis is quite guilty of this at various points in his casting career. The most hilarious part was when Flash faced Shine in I can't remember what GSL. And ol'Arti was hyping the fuck out of Flash, mostly based off past success *cough* BW *cough*. He refused to believe Flash was playing bad, even when it became apparent that Shine was wiping the floor with him. Then Artosis totally lost it in Game 3 on Frost because Shine was beating Flash in a straight up macro game with, ling, bling muta.
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like, OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
You'd rather have this?
On May 04 2015 17:16 Isualin wrote: This gem by Chill came to my mind after reading the title
On May 04 2015 23:33 Julek wrote: Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays.
I haven't started watching the Code S groups for this season yet, but this is simply not true.
Also, why do people keep writing "Wolfe" when it's "Wolf"?
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like, OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
On May 04 2015 23:33 Julek wrote: Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays.
I haven't started watching the Code S groups for this season yet, but this is simply not true.
Also, why do people keep writing "Wolfe" when it's "Wolf"?
I'm not trying to knock Tastosis or anything, man. Their casts are just predictable, and their strategic thinking is not all there. Plenty of people have agreed with these two points throughout the thread.
Artosis has a few things that you can safely bet he'll say at one point or another throughout a cast.
1) This is a build that X was doing back in WoL <--- Usually about Terran builds.
2) I have high hopes for Y. I have been keeping my eye on him and I know he's ready. Royal roader, for sure. <--- Usually about a new player who has gone on a small winstreak.
3) X has no chance. Y will win no matter what. <--- ANY match where one player is not in a Kespa team, or lives in Korea, and is fighting a foreigner/korean who left to Europe/US.
On May 04 2015 18:51 Cascade wrote: My pet peeve is when people start talking about not sc2. Tasteless being a great example of this apparently. They take every chance to talk about pokemon or whatever crap until like 10 minutes into the game when it's all but decided. You are paid to commentate the game, so commentate the damn game! If I wanted to know about Pokémon I wouldn't be on the gsl stream. I'd honestly take any master player over tasteless, at least they'd talk about the game...
Dude, this x10000000000000000000000000000000
The ONLY... and I truly mean the ONNNLY reason I haven't paid for a GSL ticket is because I know that Tasteless and Artosis cast there.
Even now, whenever there is a GSL cast (the free ones in the morning) where those 2 are teamed up, I usually end up switching streams, or just turning off the sound (like, OP, I also work from home, so I always have a stream up at all times.)
I have nothing against them, to be honest. I used to watch them religiously back when GOMTV streamed BW and was free. But, even back then they still spent 80% of a game talking about things that had NOTHING to do with what they were commentating.
My latest memory of this was one or two weeks ago (from this post.)
It was a Moonglade + Tasteless GSL cast where Tasteless spent a whole game talking about Game of Thrones. A whole game.
I'm not lying, the vods are there. Look it up. He spent a good 15 minutes deciding who he was in the Game of Thrones universe. Wtf? LOL
You'd rather have this?
On May 04 2015 17:16 Isualin wrote: This gem by Chill came to my mind after reading the title
On May 04 2015 23:33 Julek wrote: Quick edit: I should note that Artosis is not as guilty as Tasteless of this. It's just, Artosis is usually wrong when it comes to strategy, so it's just a bad caster combo in general nowadays.
I haven't started watching the Code S groups for this season yet, but this is simply not true.
Also, why do people keep writing "Wolfe" when it's "Wolf"?
I'm not trying to knock Tastosis or anything, man. Their casts are just predictable, and their strategic thinking is not all there. Plenty of people have agreed with these two points throughout the thread.
Artosis has a few things that you can safely bet he'll say at one point or another throughout a cast.
1) This is a build that X was doing back in WoL <--- Usually about Terran builds.
2) I have high hopes for Y. I have been keeping my eye on him and I know he's ready. Royal roader, for sure. <--- Usually about a new player who has gone on a small winstreak.
3) X has no chance. Y will win no matter what. <--- ANY match where one player is not in a Kespa team, or lives in Korea, and is fighting a foreigner/korean who left to Europe/US.
I didn't see that game before, but I have read about it. I think it was indeed not fair to hype soO up exclusively even though TaeJa was clearly the better player. In retrospect, it was probably a mistake, but I hope you agree that being in 4 consecutive GSL Code S finals is an achievement that cannot be understated.
I'm sure any caster will eventually have some phrases they repeat. There are only so many ways to describe a 1rax FE/the potential of a player that is relatively new on the scene/the often undeniable skillgap between top Koreans and top non-Koreans. After casting Terrans going 1rax FE for ~5 years, I'm sure anyone would run out of ways to inform the audience that the follow up could be either more raxes, a factory or a third command center. (Disclaimer: I don't play Terran, so my analysis on Terran BOs may not be spot on.)
I personally prefer not to be overflown with facts about the game constantly; that gets old quite quickly. Happily there is a middle ground between ignoring the game completely while talking about a TV series, and stating facts ("minerals being mined") and pure game analysis. To be honest, I think that the casters you and other people in this thread view as biased/offtopic manage to stay on this middle ground successfully most of the time.
I watch my fair share of sc2 and the only bias I see is when a top foreigner is playing in the final stages on a tournament. I'm fine with it though, as long as it doesn't go too far.
Moonglade saying a certain map is hard for zerg isn't bias. He's a gm zerg himself. His opinion is valuable. Artosis favoring a certain player because of past performance isn't bias either imo.
I think OP's concerns are way overblown. I don't detect any serious racial bias from any of the prominent casters (including current players like InControl and moonglade).
On May 05 2015 05:30 REyeM wrote: The scene is not that professional outside of korea, don't expect more
There are many criticisms one might level at ESL and WCS, but I don't think "unprofessional" as the tern relates to casting and commentary is one of them.
It is impossible to cast a game like starcraft which has 3 distinct races without bias. Other games like LOL and CS are different because everyone has access to the same tools and units. However in professional starcraft, players have to commit to one race, and the different playstyles and builds around. Even a lot of pros do quite a lot of protoss bashing, but that is more the fault of blizzard than the players themselves, and most commentators are sensible enough not to be too over the top.
On May 05 2015 05:30 REyeM wrote: The scene is not that professional outside of korea, don't expect more
There are several events outside of Korea that casters do not get paid for. In other words, if no direct compensation, then it's not really a professional job. I'm not even sure who you are talking about but I see this attitude quite a bit and it's confusing to me, because if you're not getting paid, do you really need to act super professional? In my opinion I don't think so, and not really bothered by someone being genuine.
I like when casters have a strong favourite player in a match up, and even more so if they explain why he is the more likely winner. For example "Player B will really have to give his best to beat this genious Player A. After all, Player A is the last year WCS semi-finalist" or something like that. And it would be even better if the cocaster would always go for a little bit of devils advocate and tell something positive about the other player too. This way I always find myself feeling like there's a tention of real competition, and one is the underdog who I will mostly root for.
Being openly biased about races is kinda meh, like when MSC had 14 vision or how much was it, and blink was all the rage, casters would focus so much in "the terran just can't get to the MSC!". It already felt unfair game back then, and the casters mentioning it too made it worse. On the other side, I think it's ok to be very biased about maps because they change and players always play multiple maps and also veto some of them. Like "Protoss blink all-ins wreck Terrans in this map" is completely fine to me, but "almost all maps in the pool favour Protoss" makes the game sound unfair.
The bias isn't that bad, what's really bad and annoying is when caster bashes on players decision in game and making casual viewers think that the player is actually bad because of it while the decision itself was good, the caster is just clueless.
On May 05 2015 00:56 shizznit wrote: worst casters
incontrol kaelaris artosis nathanias
What?
incontrol just unprofessional as hell kaelaris doesn't know the game for sh*t and blows up with excitement over the most unexcitable stuff artosis just awkward as hell, too nerdy, too biased, sense of humor sucks nathanias biased as hell
On May 05 2015 00:56 shizznit wrote: worst casters
incontrol kaelaris artosis nathanias
What?
incontrol just unprofessional as hell kaelaris doesn't know the game for sh*t and blows up with excitement over the most unexcitable stuff artosis just awkward as hell, too nerdy, too biased, sense of humor sucks nathanias biased as hell
this is just my opinion, OP asked
Usually I divert my eyes from this sorta thing but I'm curious, can you link me a part where I was "biased as hell"? I pride myself on giving Terran input but I don't believe I have EVER counted a player out for not being Terran outside of very light jokes (99% of which with Rotti since we play each other on ladder frequently).
Honestly if I'm to be accused of bias it's towards players I'm friends with. I'm super biased for Puck, kane, xeno and forgg. This has nothing to do with races and yes I would favor these players more than I would other non-koreans against far superior opponents.
On May 05 2015 00:56 shizznit wrote: worst casters
incontrol kaelaris artosis nathanias
What?
incontrol just unprofessional as hell kaelaris doesn't know the game for sh*t and blows up with excitement over the most unexcitable stuff artosis just awkward as hell, too nerdy, too biased, sense of humor sucks nathanias biased as hell
On May 04 2015 16:05 Shkudde wrote: Nope. And a little personal opinion in a cast is no problem for me, I actually like it that most SC2casters are somewhat unprofessional in that sense. You should watch an FGC-tournament (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc.) for comparison, your brain will explode XD.
I also watch a lot of CSGO (I work from home - a stream on in the background is the norm), the commentating there is 1st rate in my opinion - very little player, team, side bias.
I really like all the casters I listed. Its just that I hate it when they go all butt hurt~~
Comparing SC and CS casting is just nonsensical.
How biased is Rotti when he casts a TvT? Not very? Yeah, that's because the SC equivalent to CS is mirror MUs. They come down to player skill and luck of the draw, nothing more. Non-mirror MUs in SC will never ever ever ever in a million trillion years be close to that kind of balance.
Being up front about the reality of SC's fragile and fluctuating balance is not bias, it's educated analysis. If you don't want educated analysis, then just watch shoutcasters.
Some casters are shamelessly biased, though. And some like to think they're not biased, but they are. But that's not really what you're talking about.
Since I know Nathan is reading this thread, I'll say I haven't seen any race bias from him in any events I've seen him in.
On May 05 2015 06:59 Talaris wrote: Commentator Bias is like spices in a dish : you need some or it will taste bland, but too much and it will be unpalatable.
This is my feel exactly~~
Perhaps my OP didn't convey my respect and love for the casters I mentioned...I was just stating it pisses me when casters show race or player bias too much.
On May 04 2015 18:17 tshi wrote: Does anyone remember who did that unbiased commentator satire video? Was it Chill? It was someone from back in the day (2011, lol [lol means that its sarcasm and that back in the day doesn't mean much in sc2, it was a joke]
its linked above dude,,,it was Chill
I loved Chill's commentating (his real commentating). Whatever happened to that guy (was one of my fave casters early days).
I really can't understand how people find tasteless a good commentator. He spend most of the time talking other things, and he takes any chance he can get to claim that the game has come to a "lull" which is an excuse to resume talking about completely different things while he should be commentating on how both players are scouting, harassing and preparing for next big battle. As we are talking about other sports, how often do you hear commentators talk about things not related to the sport on TV?
I have found myself switching him of several times just to be able to watch the game, but the I don't get the sound effects. "shut up with your pokemon tasteless, I am trying to watch the game!" Many times I have seen the observer desperately trying to draw the attention of tasteless (and the other commentator that has been drawn into the off-topic discussion) to a drop or harass, or tech switch, or important scout, or barely missing to scout something etc, but the commentators just go on and on and on about how awesome it'd be if pokemon X had power Y against pokemon Z when tasteless was a kid... I have never played pokemon, and I don't care the slightest about it, so please do your damn job tasteless!!! > : (
So after that rant, I am just curious what other people appreciate in him. I guess he is less biased as he doesn't care the slightest about the game, but... >_>
On May 04 2015 18:17 tshi wrote: Does anyone remember who did that unbiased commentator satire video? Was it Chill? It was someone from back in the day (2011, lol [lol means that its sarcasm and that back in the day doesn't mean much in sc2, it was a joke]
its linked above dude,,,it was Chill
I loved Chill's commentating (his real commentating). Whatever happened to that guy (was one of my fave casters early days).
On May 05 2015 15:48 Cascade wrote: I really can't understand how people find tasteless a good commentator. He spend most of the time talking other things, and he takes any chance he can get to claim that the game has come to a "lull" which is an excuse to resume talking about completely different things while he should be commentating on how both players are scouting, harassing and preparing for next big battle. As we are talking about other sports, how often do you hear commentators talk about things not related to the sport on TV?
I have found myself switching him of several times just to be able to watch the game, but the I don't get the sound effects. "shut up with your pokemon tasteless, I am trying to watch the game!" Many times I have seen the observer desperately trying to draw the attention of tasteless (and the other commentator that has been drawn into the off-topic discussion) to a drop or harass, or tech switch, or important scout, or barely missing to scout something etc, but the commentators just go on and on and on about how awesome it'd be if pokemon X had power Y against pokemon Z when tasteless was a kid... I have never played pokemon, and I don't care the slightest about it, so please do your damn job tasteless!!! > : (
So after that rant, I am just curious what other people appreciate in him. I guess he is less biased as he doesn't care the slightest about the game, but... >_>
I can see where you're coming from honestly. Tasteless is one of my favorite casters actually, but that's because I'd rather have him talk about something else rather than the game. I know what is happening in the game, I can see it with my eyes, I don't really need anyone to explain to me what's happening, so if he can make me have a good time while I'm watching the game, I'll be happy with that. But to be frank, it's obvious that Tasteless hasn't played much SC2 since a long time ago, and that he doesn't watch it outside of the games he casts, so his game knowledge is very limited. His tactical insight is quite good though, he sees what a player could do with the units he has in the map location he's in. But in the end, he mostly casts through sheer charisma nowadays :D.
I think people who like Tasteless as a caster have mostly the same opinion as me, because it's objectively true that he isn't much of the "game scholar" that other good casters are. Tasteless is just the coolest guy who casts games, as it happens :D
"Tasteless is just the coolest guy who casts games, as it happens :D"
This is really hard to argue with...In fact I cannot...if there is one person I want to have a night out getting smash face drunk with in esports it is Tasteless... I mean who can come up with a name like DJ Fabutaste!!!???
Its not so much the race bias (which can be annoying, for me at least when T...anyway) player bias really pisses me off, like Maru hype beyond the extreme etc, it can really get annoying
To echo the sentiments of some of the other commenters, I too am a fan of commentators having some slight player or racial biases. It really adds flavour to the casting and makes it feel like there are real people with real thoughts talking about the game rather than two figureheads telling me exactly what I'm already seeing. So long as they're not all circlejerking about the same race/player (which rarely happens thank god), I'm totally cool with it, even if their biases are different from mine.
On May 04 2015 17:16 Isualin wrote: This gem by Chill came to my mind after reading the title Race and player bias will obviously happen and it is not a problem imo. But if all the casters are defending the same player or race it turns into a circlejerk.
On May 04 2015 17:17 Destructicon wrote: I think its ok for casters to mention that certain maps or certain map features favor certain races or styles, it isn't bias as much as it is presenting information. I think its ok to mention that certain races are struggling at one time or another, either in general of in a specific MU, because of the meta-game. I think its even fine to say if a player is favored against another player if they cite good reasons like practice environment (Korea vs EU, team house vs home practice) etc. What I do hate is overhyping certain players because the casters just love them or because they are foreigners. Yeah we get it, you like them, you can mention it a couple of times but for the love of god don't make the entire cast about them.
Overall though the quality of casters has generally gone up.
pretty much my thoughts verbatim. sometimes single player hype goes over the top but i tend to think they do a pretty good job with this stuff (i mainly watch gsl and proleague)
Yes yes! (ty gsl for RE medium version and free chat <3)!
My 2 cents: the meta game has only ever had but one voice: the casters voices mingled into one. Any vocal vociferous people of the "community" (players, ,and then people who hang around them etc), can be the "meta game" (providing what is said is accurately bravely cutely decisively energetically f*ing on point). So, ..let these be real voices (tasteless' comes to mind, catz qxc rotti (when doing offline showmatches) morrow nanni' (same offline comment) .. chill .. the list is quite extensive!).
It is funny how when you watch a stream, if you dislike anything it ruins it for you (the voice, the tshirt, the music, the hd or not, the race played, her/his/its gameplay etc).. just one thing and you go somewhere else. Hard audience to fulfill and make content, no?
Off topic, sorry, but I get to wondering if your op isn't biased in and in of itself? I for one see no mention of particularly important pieces of the puzzle...
Casters in official capacity have to "work". This means they are not themselves "on cue". So a ratio or % or something.. about each caster's ability to not "become a drone" while "working" seems important (to me). Casting sc is an art. Sometimes the art of letting things happen, but most of the time calling it like it is.
On May 04 2015 18:17 tshi wrote: Does anyone remember who did that unbiased commentator satire video? Was it Chill? It was someone from back in the day (2011, lol [lol means that its sarcasm and that back in the day doesn't mean much in sc2, it was a joke]
its linked above dude,,,it was Chill
I loved Chill's commentating (his real commentating). Whatever happened to that guy (was one of my fave casters early days).
On May 05 2015 15:48 Cascade wrote: I really can't understand how people find tasteless a good commentator. He spend most of the time talking other things, and he takes any chance he can get to claim that the game has come to a "lull" which is an excuse to resume talking about completely different things while he should be commentating on how both players are scouting, harassing and preparing for next big battle. As we are talking about other sports, how often do you hear commentators talk about things not related to the sport on TV?
I have found myself switching him of several times just to be able to watch the game, but the I don't get the sound effects. "shut up with your pokemon tasteless, I am trying to watch the game!" Many times I have seen the observer desperately trying to draw the attention of tasteless (and the other commentator that has been drawn into the off-topic discussion) to a drop or harass, or tech switch, or important scout, or barely missing to scout something etc, but the commentators just go on and on and on about how awesome it'd be if pokemon X had power Y against pokemon Z when tasteless was a kid... I have never played pokemon, and I don't care the slightest about it, so please do your damn job tasteless!!! > : (
So after that rant, I am just curious what other people appreciate in him. I guess he is less biased as he doesn't care the slightest about the game, but... >_>
I can see where you're coming from honestly. Tasteless is one of my favorite casters actually, but that's because I'd rather have him talk about something else rather than the game. I know what is happening in the game, I can see it with my eyes, I don't really need anyone to explain to me what's happening, so if he can make me have a good time while I'm watching the game, I'll be happy with that. But to be frank, it's obvious that Tasteless hasn't played much SC2 since a long time ago, and that he doesn't watch it outside of the games he casts, so his game knowledge is very limited. His tactical insight is quite good though, he sees what a player could do with the units he has in the map location he's in. But in the end, he mostly casts through sheer charisma nowadays :D.
I think people who like Tasteless as a caster have mostly the same opinion as me, because it's objectively true that he isn't much of the "game scholar" that other good casters are. Tasteless is just the coolest guy who casts games, as it happens :D
Cool is kewl!
Edit: Forgot to mention des tiny, when he is in the groove, steven is really good too.
I would rather have someone who is biased but knows what they are talking about than a caster who is so clueless that they don't have any personal input whatsoever. Unfortunate that some have a bad combination of the two
I would not rank the casters because to me it is old news and petty to rehash. The bias in most casters does not bother me unless they are simply talking nonsense with no reasoning behind it. I enjoy hearing analysis from different perspectives as long as it actually makes sense.
I have no problem with this whatsoever and i watch a good amount of sc2 tourneys, as with anything if you overdo it you get annoyed at little details, i think you just watch so damn much that you start noticing little shit..
just scale it back a bit and i dont think itll bother you that much.
that being said you are already at a point where it annoys you so not sure if theres any help for you
On May 05 2015 00:56 shizznit wrote: worst casters
incontrol kaelaris artosis nathanias
What?
incontrol just unprofessional as hell kaelaris doesn't know the game for sh*t and blows up with excitement over the most unexcitable stuff artosis just awkward as hell, too nerdy, too biased, sense of humor sucks nathanias biased as hell
this is just my opinion, OP asked
Usually I divert my eyes from this sorta thing but I'm curious, can you link me a part where I was "biased as hell"? I pride myself on giving Terran input but I don't believe I have EVER counted a player out for not being Terran outside of very light jokes (99% of which with Rotti since we play each other on ladder frequently).
Honestly if I'm to be accused of bias it's towards players I'm friends with. I'm super biased for Puck, kane, xeno and forgg. This has nothing to do with races and yes I would favor these players more than I would other non-koreans against far superior opponents.