On December 13 2016 00:38 ihatevideogames wrote: Why are there so many drones mindlessly defending blizzard? Especially after the Stork interview, anyone who comes out with comments defending them really seems like either a shill or a total drone.
To be completely fair here, Inven Global have had a number of interviews mis-translated to create controversy in recent memory. For instance, there were a couple of interviews with Korean LoL players mistranslated to inflame east-west tension (and obviously drive traffic to their site). Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here.
Plexa, you're right. I just read the Korean version and then read inven Global's version. It's mistranslated. And I think they either did it on purpose, or their translators suck. I'm seeing things that Stork never even said... And that whole Blizzard/KeSPA didn't care about SC2 thing that pissed people off? Yup. Mistranslated.
P.S. Oh, and also, they REALLY exaggerated things to spice up the interview. I'm pretty sure they did that on purpose so they could get more readers/viewers.
I'm under the impression the interview was severely toned down from the original transcript; that's why it seems awkward/forced but still feels "spiced up" so that the editing staff still could maintain that Stork was unhappy so they weren't blatantly lying with their edits.
so they introduce battle packs wich should support sc2´s esports scene. and now this?!?! maybe they already know that those battle packs wont be sold that good to support 2 korean events + all the other wcs events... still they could have get ssl some wcs points and see how it works... i mean with overwatch they just had a massive income, so that im sure blizzard themselve would have had the money to support multiple tournaments... but its proofing that blizzard isnt that interessted in sc2 anymore. i kinda feel they should let it die and announce starcraft 3 and try to start over again.
Blizzard is only responsible for making a game koreans don't want to play. Stop that crap about not supporting the scene. Why don't you blame SKT and KT for ditching Proleague?
On December 13 2016 17:39 insitelol wrote: Blizzard is only responsible for making a game koreans don't want to play. Stop that crap about not supporting the scene. Why don't you blame SKT and KT for ditching Proleague?
i can tell you why. the downfall of sc2 is going on for years. with every new installement (Hots and lotv) the game and the scene got worse. new units and concepts had a very bad influence on the scene, for example heart of the swarm new multiplayer units: Mothership Core was really bad designed in the first place. 1 click defense nexus canon... swarm hosts, i dont really need to say something about them i guess... widow mines gave zergs and protoss alot of frustration. oracle and viper had some issues to. so with HotS we had a huge downfall because of bad unit concepts and with this bad balancing. so people waited for the last installement with lotv and were also kinda dissapointed. new economy system makes the game alot faster (good for pros bad for newbs) new units also had design and balancing issues... problem with sc2 is also fights are to fast, in my oppinion either the dmg output of every unit is to high or the hitpoints are to less. air units in general are to strong, but thats just what im thinking...
also the splitting up between the foreign and korean tournaments didnt comfort sc2´s scene. ya some foreign pro players are getting some more money now (atleast those who win torunaments) also some more attention. but the sense of competision got toned down here...
so far for the game itself but there have been other things blizz didnt care about. for example match fixing scandals in korea, they didnt even address them... cheaters still dont get punished in ladder (maphacks still around). it took them 5 years to implement things the community stated back in the beginning days of WoL. (Visible MMR, Online Tournaments, even some blancing things like siege tank dmg output and so on...) SKT and KT + all other teams who left proleage/kespa arent the ones to blame, if the game is dying and even blizzard doesnt care about it why should companies like SKT and KT do? They have big names on the list and need to pay players properly in order to keep them. but with the downfall of tournaments there is also alot less money to get so it simply isnt paying of for them anymore...
dont get me wrong i love sc2 i still think blizzard is one of the greatest gaming companies out there, but still mistakes happened and the reaction to solve those been kinda sloppy or didnt even happen at all.
On December 13 2016 05:27 Kaizor wrote: And I find it ridiculous that people are blaming blizzard for not supporting the Korean scene enough.
What do you expect them to do??
Pay for every single Korean team, coach and player?
Pay for all the tournaments and not just the prize pool, even the administrative and logistical costs?
Let's say they did all that. Are koreans going to go watch SC2 in the thousands? Is SC2 going to be popular in Korea?
Well I don't know about Korean popularity, but I'd love to know what they were thinking in giving such huge top-heavy prize money for Blizzcon. Once first prize hits six figures there is a huge issue of diminished returns. Having Byun/Dark get 100k/50k instead of 200k/100k funds an entire SSL.
On December 13 2016 00:38 ihatevideogames wrote: Why are there so many drones mindlessly defending blizzard? Especially after the Stork interview, anyone who comes out with comments defending them really seems like either a shill or a total drone.
To be completely fair here, Inven Global have had a number of interviews mis-translated to create controversy in recent memory. For instance, there were a couple of interviews with Korean LoL players mistranslated to inflame east-west tension (and obviously drive traffic to their site). Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here.
Plexa, you're right. I just read the Korean version and then read inven Global's version. It's mistranslated. And I think they either did it on purpose, or their translators suck. I'm seeing things that Stork never even said... And that whole Blizzard/KeSPA didn't care about SC2 thing that pissed people off? Yup. Mistranslated.
P.S. Oh, and also, they REALLY exaggerated things to spice up the interview. I'm pretty sure they did that on purpose so they could get more readers/viewers.
Can we have a ban on more "korean X said Y" drama that is not proof-read by a Korean speaker (a.k.a. you) first? It really doesn't do any good that we have big active threads of people spouting accusations based on mis-translations.
On December 13 2016 01:04 Olli wrote: I'm not sure how true this is. I'd heard about the demise of SSL months before WCS 2017 was announced. Seems to me that they're just looking to blame it on Blizzard rather than own up and say that it simply isn't profitable for them.
no matter when the game "dies" it's had an incredible run, both the franchise and SC2 itself. lots of games aren't even popular when they're new, and SC2 is still being played competitively 4 years later. that's awesome.
On December 13 2016 17:39 insitelol wrote: Blizzard is only responsible for making a game koreans don't want to play. Stop that crap about not supporting the scene. Why don't you blame SKT and KT for ditching Proleague?
i can tell you why. the downfall of sc2 is going on for years. with every new installement (Hots and lotv) the game and the scene got worse. new units and concepts had a very bad influence on the scene, for example heart of the swarm new multiplayer units: Mothership Core was really bad designed in the first place. 1 click defense nexus canon... swarm hosts, i dont really need to say something about them i guess... widow mines gave zergs and protoss alot of frustration. oracle and viper had some issues to. so with HotS we had a huge downfall because of bad unit concepts and with this bad balancing. so people waited for the last installement with lotv and were also kinda dissapointed. new economy system makes the game alot faster (good for pros bad for newbs) new units also had design and balancing issues... problem with sc2 is also fights are to fast, in my oppinion either the dmg output of every unit is to high or the hitpoints are to less. air units in general are to strong, but thats just what im thinking...
also the splitting up between the foreign and korean tournaments didnt comfort sc2´s scene. ya some foreign pro players are getting some more money now (atleast those who win torunaments) also some more attention. but the sense of competision got toned down here...
so far for the game itself but there have been other things blizz didnt care about. for example match fixing scandals in korea, they didnt even address them... cheaters still dont get punished in ladder (maphacks still around). it took them 5 years to implement things the community stated back in the beginning days of WoL. (Visible MMR, Online Tournaments, even some blancing things like siege tank dmg output and so on...) SKT and KT + all other teams who left proleage/kespa arent the ones to blame, if the game is dying and even blizzard doesnt care about it why should companies like SKT and KT do? They have big names on the list and need to pay players properly in order to keep them. but with the downfall of tournaments there is also alot less money to get so it simply isnt paying of for them anymore...
dont get me wrong i love sc2 i still think blizzard is one of the greatest gaming companies out there, but still mistakes happened and the reaction to solve those been kinda sloppy or didnt even happen at all.
And my original post just pretty much summs up everything you said. Blizzard made a game they don't want to play. And blizzard tried really hard to force it down the throats. You can't say they didnt try. Yes, mistakes accured in the process. Splitting the scene was arguable for instance. But overall, they DID CARE and DID TRY. The amount of money spent on korea market was insane. We don't have the statistics but anyone could guess: prize pools, advertising, organization etc etc. W/o blizzard support i doubt we could witness multiple GSLs/SSLs/SPL. All you point out as mistakes/drawbacks could and should be mentioned. But these things alone could not change the course of flow. SC2 in korea got much more funding/organizing/infrustructure it ACTUALLY needed. It was ARTIFICIAL. And everything that's artificial eventually comes to an end. It happened. And blizzard is the last to blame. Aside from making a game that doesnt suit koreans. If it makes sense.
On December 13 2016 00:38 ihatevideogames wrote: Why are there so many drones mindlessly defending blizzard? Especially after the Stork interview, anyone who comes out with comments defending them really seems like either a shill or a total drone.
To be completely fair here, Inven Global have had a number of interviews mis-translated to create controversy in recent memory. For instance, there were a couple of interviews with Korean LoL players mistranslated to inflame east-west tension (and obviously drive traffic to their site). Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here.
Plexa, you're right. I just read the Korean version and then read inven Global's version. It's mistranslated. And I think they either did it on purpose, or their translators suck. I'm seeing things that Stork never even said... And that whole Blizzard/KeSPA didn't care about SC2 thing that pissed people off? Yup. Mistranslated.
P.S. Oh, and also, they REALLY exaggerated things to spice up the interview. I'm pretty sure they did that on purpose so they could get more readers/viewers.
So did the line i mention was there in the chinese translation exist in the original korean article?
Would very much like to know whether chinese translations are purposely spiced up as well.
On December 13 2016 14:11 Kaizor wrote: So what has all this got to do with SC2? Because the casual crowd just wouldn't be attracted to watch foreign tournaments when they know "Hey, this faceless Korean guy who we know nothing about is just going to win. Whats the point in watching?" That is what people will think. I am not talking about people posting in teamliquid that proclaims they just want to watch the highest level of play.
Again if that was true why was almost EVERY WCS tournament this year with the Korean Ban, where this mythical "Casual viewer who doesn't want to see a "Faceless Korean guys we know nothing about" win" should be coming out in droves down in viewers on the previous year? I'm talking about in what they replaces the WCS leagues and that. In some cases it was 3-1 down. In some cases we had GRAND FINALS down in viewership on a Ro32 stream in the WCS league from the previous year.
The "Casual Viewer" defense is as much of a myth as the "WCS 2016 Global Event" at the moment.
I would very much like to see actual numbers. I am not doubting you, but i am a rather numbers person, because anyone can come up with any ratio on the internet. Facts need to be backed up.
And true, numbers might back you up, but it wasn't the only point in my arguments. I strongly believe the demise of any local scene if any korean can just go there and win the tournament and go home. It does nothing to develop the local scene and a few koreans winning tournaments will still not save the korean scene.
Furthermore, i am of the view that the interest and viewership would be far lower if koreans had been winning everything.
On December 13 2016 00:38 ihatevideogames wrote: Why are there so many drones mindlessly defending blizzard? Especially after the Stork interview, anyone who comes out with comments defending them really seems like either a shill or a total drone.
To be completely fair here, Inven Global have had a number of interviews mis-translated to create controversy in recent memory. For instance, there were a couple of interviews with Korean LoL players mistranslated to inflame east-west tension (and obviously drive traffic to their site). Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here.
Plexa, you're right. I just read the Korean version and then read inven Global's version. It's mistranslated. And I think they either did it on purpose, or their translators suck. I'm seeing things that Stork never even said... And that whole Blizzard/KeSPA didn't care about SC2 thing that pissed people off? Yup. Mistranslated.
P.S. Oh, and also, they REALLY exaggerated things to spice up the interview. I'm pretty sure they did that on purpose so they could get more readers/viewers.
So did the line i mention was there in the chinese translation exist in the original korean article?
Would very much like to know whether chinese translations are purposely spiced up as well.
I can say with certainty that the Chinese translated version is more accurate than inven Global's version. The Chinese one and the original one both have that line about it all coming back to the players. Like you pointed out, inven Global does not.
So invenglobal says that they don't translate the korea version and instead use the same transcript as the Koreans and edit from there. They are convinced that their version is more accurate than the korean version and inven KR toned the original interview down.
Seems reasnable tbh.
Anway, hearing that SpoTV wanted to do SSL but now they won't since Blizzard would not give them WCS points is sad. I know for the story that Blizzard want to tell they can't have too many tournaments, since evry tournament gives a direct seed to BlizzCon now, but I'd very much like it if no tournament would give direct seeds and instead we had more tournaments that all provide WCS points.
It's not like Inven Global get away without scolding if they turned the same transcript into a more clickbaity version, leaving out important context that severely weakens the "Blizzard hate SC2" sentiment.
without knowing the precise negotiation details between Blizzard and other entities. the comments of a single pro player provide only a small degree of insight into Blizzard's commitment to SC2 in Korea in general and the SSL in particular.
of course these single-line catch-phrase headlines are great as "evidence" for the chicken littles who want to shout out that the sky is falling.
On December 13 2016 00:38 ihatevideogames wrote: Why are there so many drones mindlessly defending blizzard? Especially after the Stork interview, anyone who comes out with comments defending them really seems like either a shill or a total drone.
To be completely fair here, Inven Global have had a number of interviews mis-translated to create controversy in recent memory. For instance, there were a couple of interviews with Korean LoL players mistranslated to inflame east-west tension (and obviously drive traffic to their site). Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here.
Plexa, you're right. I just read the Korean version and then read inven Global's version. It's mistranslated. And I think they either did it on purpose, or their translators suck. I'm seeing things that Stork never even said... And that whole Blizzard/KeSPA didn't care about SC2 thing that pissed people off? Yup. Mistranslated.
P.S. Oh, and also, they REALLY exaggerated things to spice up the interview. I'm pretty sure they did that on purpose so they could get more readers/viewers.
I'm under the impression the interview was severely toned down from the original transcript; that's why it seems awkward/forced but still feels "spiced up" so that the editing staff still could maintain that Stork was unhappy so they weren't blatantly lying with their edits.
thanks for the insight.
On December 14 2016 01:38 Seeker wrote: If RallyJaffa releases Stork's original recorded interview for me to listen to, then I'll be convinced.
so you are not from "where dat snitch at" after all? you're from Missouri. it'll be interesting to see if the recorded interview is made available or if there are reasons it is "confidential". please don't ban me for these bad jokes.