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Hey, im wondering what is the best way to store large amounts of data. I've got around 4TB~ and it's almost used up and i'm out of sata slots on my MOBO and physical space in my case. Im looking for a solution to store more data for my anime/etc, so i don't need a backup at all. Preferably not in my computer, was thinking about swapping out my 4 X 1TB for 4X2TB. I was looking at a NAS but most of them only have <2TB~ and i dont think you can add more drives to it. I want to be able to add hard drives to it slowly i.e start off with 1 x 2tb~ drive and add more when i need it. I want it to be networked attached so i can stream with my PS3 to watch it on my TV, right now i'm using PS3MS so i don't know if my PS3 can stream from a NAS.
In summary need storage that can expand slowly stream to ps3 somehow especially .MKV files.
EDIT no cloud solution online, i don't want to be streaming even if its cheap esp with crappy speeds
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You could just build a cheap computer with lots of HDDs?
You can get like an Athlon II X2 system for $200 and hook it up to your router.
Something like this ($182 before taxes + shipping): + Show Spoiler +I didn't even look that hard, you can probably save even more. Of course, this isn't including the HDD, since you already have 4 of those... In Summary: 7 internal 3.5" bays - you can add-on Integrated graphics + Cat5 connection already on motherboard Not really that power hungry Edit: You'd need a different PSU, sorry, I just chose a cheap one. You'd need extra SATA power connectors. You can replace the PSU with this one. I also forgot about needing extra SATA ports. So you can switch the mobo with this one. It makes it right at $213 before taxes + shipping.
Pretty much, you can set everything up one time, and not even have a screen hooked up to it anymore. Use LogMeIn or some other remote desktop application (even Windows' own) to control it from another computer from then on.
Or you can just have it hooked up directly to your main TV and use it as an HTPC even, and control it with a wireless keyboard. Or if you have an iPhone, Android phone, iPad, tablet, etc. you can set-up it to be controlled via Wi-fi using any one of those.
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On July 14 2011 04:08 jacosajh wrote:You could just build a cheap computer with lots of HDDs? You can get like an Athlon II X2 system for $200 and hook it up to your router. Something like this: + Show Spoiler +7 internal 3.5" bays Integrated graphics + Cat5 connection already on motherboard Not really that power hungry Pretty much, you can set everything up one time, and not even have a screen hooked up to it anymore. Use LogMeIn or some other remote desktop application (even Windows' own) to control it from another computer from then on. Or you can just have it hooked up directly to your main TV and use it as an HTPC even, and control it with a wireless keyboard. Or if you have an iPhone, Android phone, iPad, tablet, etc. you can set-up it to be controlled via Wi-fi using any one of those.
so complicated......
buy 2 tb external hard drives.
take the 2tb hard drives out
put the 1 tb hard drives in the external casings
done
you would have backed up everything basically without doing anything time consuming and if you need it for music / video / image file storage, your usb port will be more than enough to handle it.
no extra shit, you could keep everything hooked up to your pc if you wanted via usb hub
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Um, for some people, the "complication" is worth it. Being someone who has 2 external hdd casings I never use, I understand there is a need to have stuff on a 24/7 network-ready storage.
To some people, it's worth it to spend $200 to not have to fiddle with stuff every time they need something, especially on the fly and on demand.
And yes, that's 2 external hdd casings and 7TB worth of HDD.
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On July 14 2011 04:20 eu.exodus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 04:08 jacosajh wrote:You could just build a cheap computer with lots of HDDs? You can get like an Athlon II X2 system for $200 and hook it up to your router. Something like this: + Show Spoiler +7 internal 3.5" bays Integrated graphics + Cat5 connection already on motherboard Not really that power hungry Pretty much, you can set everything up one time, and not even have a screen hooked up to it anymore. Use LogMeIn or some other remote desktop application (even Windows' own) to control it from another computer from then on. Or you can just have it hooked up directly to your main TV and use it as an HTPC even, and control it with a wireless keyboard. Or if you have an iPhone, Android phone, iPad, tablet, etc. you can set-up it to be controlled via Wi-fi using any one of those. so complicated...... buy 2 tb external hard drives. take the 2tb hard drives out put the 1 tb hard drives in the external casings done you would have backed up everything basically without doing anything time consuming and if you need it for music / video / image file storage, your usb port will be more than enough to handle it. no extra shit, you could keep everything hooked up to your pc if you wanted via usb hub
i don't like external drives, run out of plugs for every external, and they're relatively expensive compared to internals.
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A nas can have lots of HD bays(from 1 to like 16), they mostly just come with 0 or 1 hd. You can get a cheap 2 bay nas with 0 HD's for around 75 euro here. External HD is another option. I tihnk its just somewhat more inconvinient.
[edit] If you get a nas make sure to look at the max supported capacity. Mostly cheap once have a lower max capacity.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2011 04:36 Nuttyguy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 04:20 eu.exodus wrote:On July 14 2011 04:08 jacosajh wrote:You could just build a cheap computer with lots of HDDs? You can get like an Athlon II X2 system for $200 and hook it up to your router. Something like this: + Show Spoiler +7 internal 3.5" bays Integrated graphics + Cat5 connection already on motherboard Not really that power hungry Pretty much, you can set everything up one time, and not even have a screen hooked up to it anymore. Use LogMeIn or some other remote desktop application (even Windows' own) to control it from another computer from then on. Or you can just have it hooked up directly to your main TV and use it as an HTPC even, and control it with a wireless keyboard. Or if you have an iPhone, Android phone, iPad, tablet, etc. you can set-up it to be controlled via Wi-fi using any one of those. so complicated...... buy 2 tb external hard drives. take the 2tb hard drives out put the 1 tb hard drives in the external casings done you would have backed up everything basically without doing anything time consuming and if you need it for music / video / image file storage, your usb port will be more than enough to handle it. no extra shit, you could keep everything hooked up to your pc if you wanted via usb hub i don't like external drives, run out of plugs for every external, and they're relatively expensive compared to internals.
Exactly:
1 TB 7200 RPM HDD Internal hovers right around $55-60, $50 if you get a good deal. 1 TB 7200 RPM HDD External hovers right around at $65-70.
You're paying a slight premium to be bound by usb wires and external power cords. Inconvenient and unsightly. The slight premium on that many external HDDs also add up when you start getting a lot of them. Say you get like 5x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3's right now at $50 each. You're looking at about $20x5 = $100 savings over External HDD options.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2011 04:38 Madoga wrote: A nas can have lots of HD bays(from 1 to like 16), they mostly just come with 0 or 1 hd. You can get a cheap 2 bay nas with 0 HD's for around 75 euro here. External HD is another option. I tihnk its just somewhat more inconvinient.
[edit] If you get a nas make sure to look at the max supported capacity. Mostly cheap once have a lower max capacity.
Even a 4-bay NAS can cost over $300.
Edit: I just realized you're from the UK, but I'm assuming price relativity remains the same there.
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On July 14 2011 04:38 Madoga wrote: A nas can have lots of HD bays(from 1 to like 16), they mostly just come with 0 or 1 hd. You can get a cheap 2 bay nas with 0 HD's for around 75 euro here. External HD is another option. I tihnk its just somewhat more inconvinient.
[edit] If you get a nas make sure to look at the max supported capacity. Mostly cheap once have a lower max capacity. a NAS seems expensive from where i'm looking at, a 4 bay starts from £200+, it seems more viable with a new computer remotely controlled.
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?sq=4 bay&store=8&cat=387&sort=popularity&limit=10&page=1&subsearch=Go 1 bay = 1 3.5" hard drive right?
EDIT this seems stupid for a NAS, paying to plug in hard drives, its like a overpriced MOBO with power lol.
EDIT right now theres only 2 solutions? a NAS and a budge computer with a MOBO with tons of sata slots? isn't there like a server-like solution or is the price just ridiculous. All i want is to plug in hard drives into it and hopefully with a PS3 solution. -_-
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A nas is more quiet and uses less power which is fairly important fo ra device you will most likely keep on most of the time. If you build your own server pc I suggest you look at an atom processor + mini itx or something along those lines and an effiecient quiet PSU.
[edit] Nas will allso be a lot easier to set up and comes with the required software. A nas is basicly a dedicated mini pc. If you are not sure on how to setup your own pc server I suggest a nas.
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Yeah, the Athlon II X2 250 will consume around 2-3x more power than a NAS (around 50W idle, 100W load). Depending on how much power costs where you are, this could be fairly negligible. For me, the difference between 100W and 200W running 24/7 for a month is about $6.50 vs $13. You could build an Atom server pc, but I've found some lag on those when controlling through remote.
Noise can be an issue, but can also be reduced.
I don't know what you mean by PS3 solution? If it's anything like an Xbox 360, I just use allow the Xbox 360 access to my media from my computer, then I go to my Xbox 360 and stream the files from there...
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i would not reccoment in buying HDDs larger than 1 TB capacity because they tend to have a short livetime and are not as stable as smaller ones because of the relatively new technology.
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@Petrucci, post a source, please, if you're going to call technology that, conceptually, if not in the same physical specifics, has been around for a couple of decades, new and unstable.
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On July 14 2011 04:59 jacosajh wrote: Yeah, the Athlon II X2 250 will consume around 2-3x more power than a NAS (around 50W idle, 100W load). You could build an Atom server pc, but I've found some lag on those when controlling through remote.
Noise can be an issue, but can also be reduced.
I don't know what you mean by PS3 solution? If it's anything like an Xbox 360, I just use allow the Xbox 360 access to my media from my computer, then I go to my Xbox 360 and stream the files from there... Well i use the PS3 to read stuff my drives atm, since PS3 doesn't support mkv files and PS3 media server to play it on the PS3 which is hooked to the TV. Now that i think about it, an atom processor wouldn't be able to stream to a ps3 in HD without lag, i could just use the mini server pc as PC only streaming and use its an 'archive'
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Yeah, the more requirements you post, the more I'm thinking you really don't have a choice but to use a PC as a media server.
And also, if I'm reading you properly, you probably do a lot of torrenting. Which a Server PC can do, but not a NAS (I don't think).
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On July 14 2011 04:59 jacosajh wrote: Yeah, the Athlon II X2 250 will consume around 2-3x more power than a NAS (around 50W idle, 100W load). Depending on how much power costs where you are, this could be fairly negligible. For me, the difference between 100W and 200W running 24/7 for a month is about $6.50 vs $13. You could build an Atom server pc, but I've found some lag on those when controlling through remote.
Atom machines work fine with a Linux distribution on it. I have a nice little Atom running some Ubuntu variant, it does great for making files available in my network and doubles as a webserver, allowing me to host all kinds of small things without having to fall back on internet-file-hosters such as rapidshare and the likes.
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On July 14 2011 05:07 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 04:59 jacosajh wrote: Yeah, the Athlon II X2 250 will consume around 2-3x more power than a NAS (around 50W idle, 100W load). Depending on how much power costs where you are, this could be fairly negligible. For me, the difference between 100W and 200W running 24/7 for a month is about $6.50 vs $13. You could build an Atom server pc, but I've found some lag on those when controlling through remote.
Atom machines work fine with a Linux distribution on it. I have a nice little Atom running some Ubuntu variant, it does great for making files available in my network and doubles as a webserver, allowing me to host all kinds of small things without having to fall back on internet-file-hosters such as rapidshare and the likes.
Can it stream 720p/1080p videos to an Xbox 360/PS3? Or another PC? Also, how does it handle large file transfers? Small, but multiple file transfers? What about remote desktop controlling? I'm not trying to be smart. I'm seriously wondering.
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a NAS seems stupid, it can only hold 4tb~ for a 2 bay drive and its expensive to get a 4 bay one, only perks is low power consumption and maybe a torrent program so you can save more power.
I wish there was something that made TB drives look silly, like cd to dvd then to blu rays.
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So you're saying you're wishing 10TB was a normal requirement...
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On July 14 2011 05:03 JingleHell wrote: @Petrucci, post a source, please, if you're going to call technology that, conceptually, if not in the same physical specifics, has been around for a couple of decades, new and unstable.
I think he's referring to some time ago when a lot of larger drives failed. I never paid much attention to this, but a lot of people used to suggest putting your OS on a smaller HDD since there was a generation (or maybe more) of Seagate and Western Digital 1TB drives that were notorious for failing. I don't see many people worrying about this anymore though. And I, for one, never get anything less than 1 TB anymore.
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On July 14 2011 05:20 jacosajh wrote: So you're saying you're wishing 10TB was a normal requirement... Blu rays aren't a 'normal requirement'. But if you look in the future they're might be larger files such as 1080p being todays equivalent of 480p. I was just saying if someone gave you a blu-ray disc when you was still using floppy disks you would NEVER think about space again.
EDIT kinda of quick question, what sectors sizes would be most efficient for space? i remember for the 1tb drives i have atm they are like 4096 blocks i remember seeing 52k blocks or something familar, all i know is that speed is dependent on the file size as well.
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For a lot of people, filling up even 1 TB is a rather difficult task, so the 1 TB drive is really still the Blu-ray of HDD if you're going along that logic -_-
I understand where your coming from though.
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Hey, read my slow ninja edit in the last page please and see if you can answer the question.
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I have no idea -_- I separate my drives as I see fit with no regard to that
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you have to formatt it when you first buy it so windows can see it, well thats what i had to do.
im now thinking about buying a SATA card and use my PCI slots and use external casing on the hard drives, and leave the hard drives outside my case.
What exactly is a external casing, slightly confused. Isnt is just a piece of plastic/metal that protects it? and you still need to plug the sata cable and the power cable in to it.
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Yes, that is correct.
For example, like if you get one of these.
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You might want to check this.
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Just set the drives up on a computer within a raid that will solve the issue if any drives fail (no raid0). Next allow other users within your network to access the files that you'd like them to within your computer, ie. public documents. Most of these people aren't telling you anything relevant to what you actually can do with your parts without having to spend money.
If you need help doing this toss me a pm.
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On July 14 2011 05:44 AppLeCheesE wrote: Just set the drives up on a computer within a raid that will solve the issue if any drives fail (no raid0). Next allow other users within your network to access the files that you'd like them to within your computer, ie. public documents. Most of these people aren't telling you anything relevant to what you actually can do with your parts without having to spend money.
If you need help doing this toss me a pm.
And please tell me how your "solution" solves his problem. How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? I'd love to know how to do this as well.
Getting back to topic, Madoga's idea is also pretty nice. I didn't think about that. Even though you don't have enough SATA ports, you can get a PCI Sata port multiplier if you have enough space for extra 3.5" HDD's in your computer.
The only issue with this is you'd have to leave your main computer on all the time, and if it's a power-hungry beast, that'll make it more expensive to run 24/7.
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The logic behind the notion that larger drives are less reliable is that assuming Bit Error Rates have stayed the same as hard drive size and density increase, it stands to reason that a given 2TB drive will have twice as many bad bits as a 1TB drive if both are full. Also, early firmware on 2TB drives had trouble keeping up with the volume increases or was just flat-out rushed -- many of those problems have since been resolved. Lastly, the addition of more platters into the body of the drive made matters a little bit worse what with slightly higher heat and all. A post featured in this hardware forum thread, however, aptly notes that if the contents of the drive are just media files, any decent player should be able to cope with a few bad bits.
The problem with the question is that reliability is an unapproachable standard. The frequency and persistence of outlying cases and failures makes any measure of reliability kind of useless in the kind of scale in which any non-enterprise user would be dealing. Google's early strategy for confronting this reality was to buy the cheapest, largest drives possible and compensate with abstracted systems that ensured the integrity of their data in the inevitable case that one or all of their drives in a given area failed. If implementing a backup system is out of the question for you but your data remains irreplaceable to some extent, then buying enterprise HDDs at lower densities is probably the way to go.
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If you're happy with that, that's a good idea. It's cheap and versatile enough.
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On July 14 2011 05:56 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 05:44 AppLeCheesE wrote: Just set the drives up on a computer within a raid that will solve the issue if any drives fail (no raid0). Next allow other users within your network to access the files that you'd like them to within your computer, ie. public documents. Most of these people aren't telling you anything relevant to what you actually can do with your parts without having to spend money.
If you need help doing this toss me a pm. And please tell me how your "solution" solves his problem. How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? I'd love to know how to do this as well.
Well bro, I didn't say it was a solution, I said everyone in here is feeding you garbage rather than actually providing you with an actual solution. I answered the OP's main issue, "data storage without backups" [a raid], and allow for file sharing on his home network. Maybe you shouldn't be a sarcastic idiot while making yourself look like an asshat putting words into my mouth.
For the other, he needs a minimal build, a dual core processor, a motherboard, a reliable power supply, a case (well ventilated), raid card and a linux operating system. He will also need a router capable of handling the streaming of uncompressed data (1Gbps).
How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? Only a wizard could increase the data of a 1tb drive anymore than 1 billion bytes.
You can also turn the computer off when it isn't being used, unless you don't mind spending 5 bucks a month for it.
User was warned for this post
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On July 14 2011 05:56 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 05:44 AppLeCheesE wrote: Just set the drives up on a computer within a raid that will solve the issue if any drives fail (no raid0). Next allow other users within your network to access the files that you'd like them to within your computer, ie. public documents. Most of these people aren't telling you anything relevant to what you actually can do with your parts without having to spend money.
If you need help doing this toss me a pm. And please tell me how your "solution" solves his problem. How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? I'd love to know how to do this as well. Getting back to topic, Madoga's idea is also pretty nice. I didn't think about that. Even though you don't have enough SATA ports, you can get a PCI Sata port multiplier if you have enough space for extra 3.5" HDD's in your computer. The only issue with this is you'd have to leave your main computer on all the time, and if it's a power-hungry beast, that'll make it more expensive to run 24/7.
Didn't really have time to type before, made that post while playing a game. Anyway, yea he could just buy HDD(s) + sataport multiplier for now. It'll give him the space he needs for (however long it takes). Further down it allso shows you how to build your own nas. That guy build a system with with roughly 10 hdd spots for 400 dollar ish. Dont really know how that translates to pound but its a lot cheaper than just buying a (pre-build)nas and 10ish hdd slots should be enough for a long time.
[edit] Pretty useless post, since I think that everyone got that allread, but w/e.
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I'd recommend this: drive
I've used dozens of them setting up my home network, quite reliable, decent speeds an optimal for long periods of time where the drive isn't being used.
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On July 14 2011 06:13 AppLeCheesE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 05:56 jacosajh wrote:On July 14 2011 05:44 AppLeCheesE wrote: Just set the drives up on a computer within a raid that will solve the issue if any drives fail (no raid0). Next allow other users within your network to access the files that you'd like them to within your computer, ie. public documents. Most of these people aren't telling you anything relevant to what you actually can do with your parts without having to spend money.
If you need help doing this toss me a pm. And please tell me how your "solution" solves his problem. How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? I'd love to know how to do this as well. Well bro, I didn't say it was a solution, I said everyone in here is feeding you garbage rather than actually providing you with an actual solution. I answered the OP's main issue, "data storage without backups" [a raid], and allow for file sharing on his home network. Maybe you shouldn't be a sarcastic idiot while making yourself look like an asshat putting words into my mouth. For the other, he needs a minimal build, a dual core processor, a motherboard, a reliable power supply, a case (well ventilated), raid card and a linux operating system. He will also need a router capable of handling the streaming of uncompressed data (1Gbps). Show nested quote +How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? Only a wizard could increase the data of a 1tb drive anymore than 1 billion bytes. You can also turn the computer off when it isn't being used, unless you don't mind spending 5 bucks a month for it.
"Bro". What's with all the "bro" crap lately? If you acknowledge it isn't a solution to his problem, why the hell did you post it? He needs more space. As in he doesn't have enough. RAID for backup purposes requires more physical drives, so your "no spending money" bit is stupid too.
He's going to have to spend more money to get more space, that's just a fact. What he's wondering is the best way to go about it, when he's out of SATA ports and room inside his case. That's what people have been answering, and you come in here all hostile, talking out your ass about something completely irrelevant and offtopic, and attacking them for discussing his actual issue.
Short version? Everything you popped off at jacosajh with applies much better to yourself.
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i've found this card http://www.ebuyer.com/product/130281 buts its about £73 not sure if its worth it. is 300Mbs fast for a sata card? or should i get something like this for 2 sata slots http://www.ebuyer.com/product/136154
EDIT sata 2 drives should be 3Gbps but the card does 300Mbs isn't that 1/10th of its speed, will it be 300Mbps for the whole card or for each drive?
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On July 14 2011 06:51 Nuttyguy wrote:i've found this card http://www.ebuyer.com/product/130281buts its about £73 not sure if its worth it. is 300Mbs fast for a sata card? or should i get something like this for 2 sata slots http://www.ebuyer.com/product/136154EDIT sata 2 drives should be 3Gbps but the card does 300Mbs isn't that 1/10th of its speed, will it be 300Mbps for the whole card or for each drive? 3 gigabits aka 375 megabytes. Sata II only does about 300 megabytes persecond though.
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300 MBps = 3Gbps = SATA 2
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oh i see, misread it thought it was in bits instead of bytes.
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Um, 3 Gbps raw signaling rate, with 8b/10b encoding, means 2.4 Gbps of equivalent uncoded data rate (not including other overheads), equals 300 MBps equivalent uncoded data rate.
That's just in case somebody was confused where 8 = 10 in that conversion. There's the rate 4/5 line code--the 8b/10b--for physical signaling reasons. (It doesn't do error correction.)
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if i was to make a NAS i would need software since i doubt its going to run on windows 7. What types of NAS 'OS's are good? i don't need raid at all and a torrent client might be good but not necessary. Another question, if i have 2 drives and want to make them appear as one ' IIRC its called partition or something similar' then i add a 3rd drive and want to make it appear as one would i need to format the drives?
I should have done computing
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2011 06:13 AppLeCheesE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 05:56 jacosajh wrote:On July 14 2011 05:44 AppLeCheesE wrote: Just set the drives up on a computer within a raid that will solve the issue if any drives fail (no raid0). Next allow other users within your network to access the files that you'd like them to within your computer, ie. public documents. Most of these people aren't telling you anything relevant to what you actually can do with your parts without having to spend money.
If you need help doing this toss me a pm. And please tell me how your "solution" solves his problem. How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? I'd love to know how to do this as well. Well bro, I didn't say it was a solution, I said everyone in here is feeding you garbage rather than actually providing you with an actual solution. I answered the OP's main issue, "data storage without backups" [a raid], and allow for file sharing on his home network. Maybe you shouldn't be a sarcastic idiot while making yourself look like an asshat putting words into my mouth. For the other, he needs a minimal build, a dual core processor, a motherboard, a reliable power supply, a case (well ventilated), raid card and a linux operating system. He will also need a router capable of handling the streaming of uncompressed data (1Gbps). Show nested quote +How is his 4 TB HDDs going to magically increase in capacity doing what you just told him? Only a wizard could increase the data of a 1tb drive anymore than 1 billion bytes. You can also turn the computer off when it isn't being used, unless you don't mind spending 5 bucks a month for it.
I appreciate posts like this. It makes me mature a lot faster.
Anyways, you can use Windows 7 as your NAS operating system. Why not? It's actually pretty efficient and can make it easy to link other PC's as well any other device you might have. I've never messed with Linux distros for this type of thing, but any one who uses Linux but isn't a fanboy has always told me it's not worth messing with.
Madoga's link shows you how to do that (your 2nd question).
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On July 14 2011 07:18 Nuttyguy wrote: if i was to make a NAS i would need software since i doubt its going to run on windows 7. What types of NAS 'OS's are good? i don't need raid at all and a torrent client might be good but not necessary. Another question, if i have 2 drives and want to make them appear as one ' IIRC its called partition or something similar' then i add a 3rd drive and want to make it appear as one would i need to format the drives?
I should have done computing
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2010/07/23/how-to-build-a-nas-box/1
FreeNAS is the software they use. And I find making your own NAS box cheaper than buying one itself; if you put in the effort to do everything.
edit: just remember to underclock everything. i had a friend who forgot and his electricity bill shot up like crazy.
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