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On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote: Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. client has to be on for the games to count.
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I can't wait until this rocks off. Its sooo much fun to play on the GSL maps. The people that play this rarely cheese, so its nice to be able to get good practice in. <3 NTBL
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This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game.
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On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote: Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins.
The other person uploading the replay.
On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote: This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game.
There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection.
On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote: don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup
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On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote: First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well.
(the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common)
Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played.
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I'm liking this very much, easy to find games, easy to practice builds, much less daunting than the normal ladder. I feel as if I have less invested in it than the normal ladder, which is a great stepping stone to not being afraid of laddering anymore. Just a tip though, not for you, but for players; don't forget to set your race since it's a custom. -_-
Thanks for making this, I'm sure it took a lot of effort, and it's very much appreciated.
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On July 06 2011 13:46 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote: First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well. (the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common) Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played.
We also keep replays so we can watch / ban people we think are cheating.
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On July 06 2011 14:05 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:46 Xapti wrote:On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote: First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well. (the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common) Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played. We also keep replays so we can watch / ban people we think are cheating. Personally I couldn't care less about the ladder points, the things I care about are being able to choose my opponent, play the match up that I want to play, not being forced to play mirror which IMO is completely boring, being able to challenge a rematch. I think all of those things are much more important than the ladder points, and add much more fun to the game. let's assume someone does manage to hack the system and gets tons of points, do you really care? I don't, I still have all of the other features which make the game 100% more fun then playing the normal ladder. [I don't really have NTBL yet, I assume based on what guys said on the forum.] Actually I really don't understand why people in EU don't just log into the channel and play themselves. =/ Meh,
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On July 06 2011 17:59 ObserverSix2One wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 14:05 angrybacon wrote:On July 06 2011 13:46 Xapti wrote:On July 06 2011 06:19 angrybacon wrote: First question, we hash the replay data into unique id's to prevent dupes.
Oh, that's not good. Well, it's sufficient to prevent the very same game to be uploaded, it isn't enough to prevent replays from being spoofed. While it's impossible to completely protect this system... I think one which requires 2 people to both upload a game at the same time would work pretty well. (the issue with that is that you can have 2 people both simultaneously spoofing replays, but that is more complicated, and not common) Oh I just realized a way to not exploit the system (any more than how the innate mechanics of the ladder can be manipulated), but it's rather problematic with the hiding of stats of players without knowing their friend code. Anyway, it would involve looking at the game history of a player to verify that the game was played. We also keep replays so we can watch / ban people we think are cheating. Personally I couldn't care less about the ladder points, the things I care about are being able to choose my opponent, play the match up that I want to play, not being forced to play mirror which IMO is completely boring, being able to challenge a rematch. I think all of those things are much more important than the ladder points, and add much more fun to the game. let's assume someone does manage to hack the system and gets tons of points, do you really care? I don't, I still have all of the other features which make the game 100% more fun then playing the normal ladder. [I don't really have NTBL yet, I assume based on what guys said on the forum.] Actually I really don't understand why people in EU don't just log into the channel and play themselves. =/ Meh,
This. Seriously, who cares if some loser wants to spend the time to hack the system for literally no benefit. This isnt about rank, its about choosing your opponent and maps, GOOD MAPS. I literally dont give a !@#$ if some guy wants to make a bunch of fake replays so he can pretend he's A+ or something lol. I also don't think anybody would do it unless this became the main ladder everyone uses, including pros, and we aren't there yet.
Basically there are more important things to focus on right now than preventing hackers from gaming the system, like matchmaking or something. Has there even been an incident of someone submitting a fake replay? seriously, its not an issue right now.
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Most "heavy" security things, have to be anticipated beforehand. It may not be a priority right now, but they probably have to at least lay down a solid base for it. It's quite hard to make an application without caring about security and then implementing a total system while the application is in full use. So it's probably a good way to work on it now, they do have to find a balance between what is needed and what could be done later, but laying some solid, easily extensible, security bases seems necessary. Good work, Btw .
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This is an awesome idea and has so much potential. If you can get this to take off I think it will be huge.
Maybe request a spotlight on TL?
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2011 13:25 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote: Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. The other person uploading the replay. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote: This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game. There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote: don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup
Once this becomes a reality I have no trouble seeing this overtake the blizzard ladder for more serious players who actually want tournament practice. Just gotta get the people playing it.
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On July 07 2011 01:15 jackalope1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2011 13:25 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote: Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. The other person uploading the replay. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote: This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game. There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote: don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup Once this becomes a reality I have no trouble seeing this overtake the blizzard ladder for more serious players who actually want tournament practice. Just gotta get the people playing it.
This is what I am hoping for. I really do hope all players playing competitively switch to this. Would be like iccup again :D
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On July 07 2011 07:07 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 01:15 jackalope1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2011 13:25 angrybacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:48 Completley wrote: Whats preventing people simpy playing a lot of games, deleting their losses and then opening up client, so that it only sees wins. The other person uploading the replay. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:17 GrapeD wrote: This looks awesome. My one concern is you seem to be using the replay files to determine the ladder? If thats the case why not use a custom map flag to tell the server the winner directly that way if the replay save screws up or something its straight from the game. There's nothing in the code AFAIK that lets me comm with an outside server. We also put all the replays that don't parse correctly into a folder for inspection. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:32 ObserverSix2One wrote: don't hype it up man - just don't do it.
/hypingitup Once this becomes a reality I have no trouble seeing this overtake the blizzard ladder for more serious players who actually want tournament practice. Just gotta get the people playing it. This is what I am hoping for. I really do hope all players playing competitively switch to this. Would be like iccup again :D
That's not concept art.
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AngryBacon (and team)
Thats looking fucking awesome!
What sort of Release schedule are you going for?
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Holy crap this is amazing!
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Really nice job, im interested to see more progress on that program shown in the screenshots
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I will try this, looks interesting.
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