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On July 14 2011 18:30 Officedrone wrote: Apparently the majority of the 40 or so people on the PTR are d-bags. I think I was BM'd and trash talked more in the past couple hours than this entire season on Live. =/ Made me laugh :D Well but you can have the WHOLE changes right now! Isn't it incredible this new icon?
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On July 14 2011 18:51 Rizell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 18:40 Mercury- wrote:On July 14 2011 16:59 haffy wrote:On July 14 2011 16:45 DooMDash wrote: The Zerg entitlement that idra brought to SCII has to end. Let's just play on huge empty squares where no one can abuse anything, that way Zerg can win every game. As if they actually struggle anymore. Damn those Zergs wanting maps that are fair to play on for all! Zerg's definition of fairplay usually means no attacks until 4 bases, 80 workers and hive tech for the Zerg though so I'm not sure if their opinion on maps can really be trusted. Show nested quote + Zergs would probably be happy only if Blizzard creates a completely flat map without any rocks / cliffs and a gigantic battlefield in the middle with 30 bases all around. I'm not sure though, they probably find something else to bash Blizzard about if that were the case.
Dear Zerg users, do everybody a favor and at least *try* to appreciate Blizzard's effort to create new maps and on top of that, please try to stop acting as if your race is still the weakest because all sensible people agree the balance is quite OK right now. If anything, Terrans are saying Infestor/Broodlord is too strong. Zerg units too strong? Blasphemy!
A better option, actually, is to switch to T/P and see for yourself how terrifying it is to play vs a competent Zerg player who controls the entire map and has creep everywhere. You have no idea.
Thank you !
Posts like this make my brain hurt so much. When will you people realise it has NOTHING to do about zerg's QQ. Its about blizzards maps being generally shitty with rocks everywhere, no accesible third, promoting 2 base allin play, and LOTS of map imbalances where people can really abuse certain postions. Like on these new maps where tanks can shoot FAR into the main on some positions. And dont say "well zerg's just have to learn how to survive the map imbalances". Maybe people should LEARN how to play without counting on getting cheap ladder wins due to map imbalances. You dont see all the terran/protoss pro's whining about GSL maps do you? Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE GENERALLY GOOD MAPS. Otherwise we might just play on shit maps like Steppes of War and Delta Quadrant our entire lifes and lets see how well the game will prosper then. I don't understand this, your second sentence states this isn't about Zerg QQ, then the rest of the post is pure Zerg whining.
???
User was temp banned for this post.
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Maybe you can understand the "zerg QQ" when the present maps which make it impossible to wall.
According to the (terran)community:
Steppes of war is balanced against Zerg! Close spawn on metalopolis is balanced against zerg! Tank drops on Lost temple next to the natural is balanced against zerg! Having the ability to shoot the zergs main from my own third way before he can get mutas out is balanced against zerg! Constructing a bunker in zergs natural in a place where you cant attack with lings/drones is balanced against zerg!
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Zerg QQ is pretty natural with new maps, since the way zerg is designed means they normally are on the bad end of abusable terrain features moreso than the other races
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On July 14 2011 19:03 Mercury- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 18:51 Rizell wrote:On July 14 2011 18:40 Mercury- wrote:On July 14 2011 16:59 haffy wrote:On July 14 2011 16:45 DooMDash wrote: The Zerg entitlement that idra brought to SCII has to end. Let's just play on huge empty squares where no one can abuse anything, that way Zerg can win every game. As if they actually struggle anymore. Damn those Zergs wanting maps that are fair to play on for all! Zerg's definition of fairplay usually means no attacks until 4 bases, 80 workers and hive tech for the Zerg though so I'm not sure if their opinion on maps can really be trusted. Zergs would probably be happy only if Blizzard creates a completely flat map without any rocks / cliffs and a gigantic battlefield in the middle with 30 bases all around. I'm not sure though, they probably find something else to bash Blizzard about if that were the case.
Dear Zerg users, do everybody a favor and at least *try* to appreciate Blizzard's effort to create new maps and on top of that, please try to stop acting as if your race is still the weakest because all sensible people agree the balance is quite OK right now. If anything, Terrans are saying Infestor/Broodlord is too strong. Zerg units too strong? Blasphemy!
A better option, actually, is to switch to T/P and see for yourself how terrifying it is to play vs a competent Zerg player who controls the entire map and has creep everywhere. You have no idea.
Thank you !
Posts like this make my brain hurt so much. When will you people realise it has NOTHING to do about zerg's QQ. Its about blizzards maps being generally shitty with rocks everywhere, no accesible third, promoting 2 base allin play, and LOTS of map imbalances where people can really abuse certain postions. Like on these new maps where tanks can shoot FAR into the main on some positions. And dont say "well zerg's just have to learn how to survive the map imbalances". Maybe people should LEARN how to play without counting on getting cheap ladder wins due to map imbalances. You dont see all the terran/protoss pro's whining about GSL maps do you? Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE GENERALLY GOOD MAPS. Otherwise we might just play on shit maps like Steppes of War and Delta Quadrant our entire lifes and lets see how well the game will prosper then. I don't understand this, your second sentence states this isn't about Zerg QQ, then the rest of the post is pure Zerg whining. ???
Its not "pure zerg whining", if anything its whining about poor map design and map imbalances. Seriously, is that so hard to realise?. Im done answering these ignorant posts now. Go read what i said again.
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Wow the pic made me think there would be an Infernal Preigniter nerf. Bummer...
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For me I dont like how few expansions i se on the maps, I think there is to few, and to far away from eachother. Maybe its fine for thier size, but in that case i want bigger maps.
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On July 14 2011 15:14 Cha1R wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 15:10 DannyJ wrote:Ew, they are worse than i thought they'd be They actually aren't that bad at all. I played the PTR today, and they all seemed actually like really good and interesting maps. People are just way to quick to judge. I remember posts on Shakuras being a terrible map when it was being tested, now its one of the most beloved maps blizzard has released. My point is, don't be so quick to judge.
Shakuras is still one of the worse map in term of balance. And they had to change it like 10 times before it was acceptable. :s
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On July 14 2011 22:10 justiceknight wrote:did any1 got this error message from PTR?? + Show Spoiler + holy - starter edition, the new WoW upgrade, where they made it free to play, they called it starter edition. do you see the connection? Oo
does that mean what i think it means?
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Several performance and memory improvements have been made.
Now that's what I like.
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On July 14 2011 19:22 joshboy42 wrote: Zerg QQ is pretty natural with new maps, since the way zerg is designed means they normally are on the bad end of abusable terrain features moreso than the other races Unless they get a bunch of mutalisks. Then it's role reversal.
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I love these new 1v1 maps so far!! both as zerg and protoss!
I know there are a few abusive spots, but to be honest... there are on every map, and its just a matter of being aware, all we can do right?
But overall I really like that maps, great sizes and open areas, yet with some tricky terrain to play around with too.
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Why does blizzard have the mindset that only high level players want good maps?
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On July 14 2011 22:54 Numy wrote: Why does blizzard have the mindset that only high level players want good maps?
Because having a balanced map pool means having a balance of macro maps and rush maps.
I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly hope that scrap station and delta quadrant go, I'd bet money (small amounts of it) that those 2 maps are the most vetoed (although I have a terrible gut feeling tal'darim is up there.)
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On July 14 2011 22:58 Alokiya wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 22:54 Numy wrote: Why does blizzard have the mindset that only high level players want good maps? Because having a balanced map pool means having a balance of macro maps and rush maps. I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly hope that scrap station and delta quadrant go, I'd bet money (small amounts of it) that those 2 maps are the most vetoed (although I have a terrible gut feeling tal'darim is up there.) Having maps be "macro" and "rush" is one of the dumbest ways of making a map. All maps should facilitate and reward both plays, some more than others. TDA is a big map which often goes to at least 20min+ games but that doesn't mean people still do not rush on that map. Meanwhile a map like Dual Sight in the GSL pool is a small map with 5 bases for both players in total and it's easier to rush on that map due to the rush distance but macro games happen often because the map is not a mess of rocks everywhere and cliffs where siege tanks get too much of an advantage.
I won't condemn these maps yet because i haven't played on them, but they do not look good so far.
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On July 14 2011 22:22 ObserverSix2One wrote:holy - starter edition, the new WoW upgrade, where they made it free to play, they called it starter edition. do you see the connection? Oo does that mean what i think it means?
Yeah it looks like they're trying to get more people to play the game, but it could be used like how guest accounts were used to create mayhem on the ladders, unless blizzard has a way of separating these accounts from the general ladder.
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Just played a few games on the new maps. I'm not pleased to say the least. Very powerful places for tanks and choke points for bunkers, etc.
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On July 14 2011 15:50 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 15:45 DarkKiwi wrote:On July 14 2011 15:36 DooMDash wrote:On July 14 2011 15:24 Wr3k wrote: It's almost as if the goal here is to replace solid macro style tvz with cheese tailored to specific abusable characteristics on each map.
That's more or less catering to Terrans strengths. If Blizzard designed every map with out any advantageous positions or abuses Terrans would probably do pretty poorly since they are not meant to win in straight up macro battles. The maps are good because Terran can play to its strengths and abuses, yet they are still great macro maps with plenty of spots for Zergs to take advantage of. Uhhhh, last I checked terran in every major tournament does fairly okay in straight up macro battles and didn't need cheesy or abusive map tactics to win. GSL particularly. I see Terrans abusing positions a lot, but the whole point of the matter is if all these abusable spots were that good the pros would be using them more. This means just because maps have abuseable spots does not make them broken, if they were broken we'd see the pros use them every game. Why don't they? Because the pros they are playing against actually prepare or know how to deal with the abuses, so the Terran pro cannot always rely on these. So basically what I am saying is most people who will actually let these do damage to them repeatedly are not pro level for a reason.
Pros do just fine without 5 or 6 spots where a bunker rush or tank positioning is extremely difficult to effectively deal with. Look at GSL or MLG maps. There are spots where there is good positioning, but no spots where terran can plop down a tank and fire upon an opponents main with impunity, no spots where a bunker can be set up and protected by rocks on 3 sides while being right next to the natural. The new maps are full of mistakes in design, period.
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On July 14 2011 18:23 escruting wrote: Why everyone complains about siege tank positions against zerg? as if tanks only worked against zerg....We protoss dont complain so much but feel the same.
this is a good point also id say they should remove air space around base because protoss really doesnt have a way to deal with the muta abuse.
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