and focus on the fact that protoss is OP
User was warned for this post
Forum Index > SC2 General |
Grackula
133 Posts
and focus on the fact that protoss is OP User was warned for this post | ||
haffy
United Kingdom430 Posts
On July 16 2011 23:02 Huragius wrote: Show nested quote + On July 16 2011 22:27 haffy wrote: On July 16 2011 22:17 Huragius wrote: On July 16 2011 11:31 Ballistixz wrote: On July 15 2011 19:03 Snowbear wrote: On July 15 2011 18:48 haffy wrote: On July 15 2011 17:38 DooMDash wrote: On July 15 2011 16:56 TENTHST wrote: 2 base terran vs 4 base zerg 126 apm terran vs 137 apm zerg 98 food terran vs 115 food zerg terran wins. So? I have higher APM than white-ra and lzgamer but they would still beat the crap out of me. My Z apm is also 150, it has to do with the fact that everything moves at 100 mph you automatically will have higher APM. Also it's extremely common for Terran to be down in supply, even at pro level. Terran can't possibly compete with Zerg macro, they are about position, abuse, and maximizing efficiency ( with micro and said position ). I love how your post completely ignores all logic beyond supply and apm. And that guy had terrible spire position, not my fault I took advantage of his huge mistake. He could have had it a million safe places. I don't put my tech lab researching stim unprotected and say muta are imba because I put it some where stupid, but seems like most Z's do. Zerg entitlement is out of control... thanks idra. Do you honestly think Zerg wouldn't complain about badly designed maps if Idra wasn't Zerg? Do you see terrans complaining about taladar? Do you see terrans complaining about the almost unbeatable infestor + broodlord composition? Do you see terrans complaining that they have to micro excellent to be able to stand a chance while the zerg can just 1a? It's a fact that 90% of the zergs just complain whole the time. I got 6 zerg practice partners and 5 of them are very bm whiners who blame their losses on imbalance. I honestly think that this "zerg is so UP" trend is idra's fault. thats not true. over on the bnet forums there is a huge ammount of QQ about infestors from both terran and toss. in game i get massive ammounts of QQ for using fungal even tho terrans have ghosts and emp to deal with infestors. also its a fact that 98% of statistics on the internet is made up on the spot. like yours for example. well guess what bro, just because you have 6 zerg practice partners and 5 of them are BM whiners dont magically account them as 90% of zerg players that play this game. and no its not idras fault. idra was a whiner in BW and he didnt play zerg. also, infestor broodlord is not unbeatable. ghost for sniping and emp beats it and ravens hunter seeker missles utterly destroy broods. terrans just have yet to experiment with ravens and ghosts more effectively People sometimes should really stay silent if they have no idea about high-level play of SC2. Ghosts are far from destroying Infestor/Broodlords combo and to try Hunter seeker missles against Broodlords while there is infestors with NP of range 9 ? lol. How do you know what ravens and ghosts play like at high level play? The only person I've seen use ghosts as a main part of their army was BratOK in a match against Darkforce. Also I've not seen ravens even used against this composition, so how do you know it wouldn't be good? PDD kills broodlings before they hit the ground. And hunter seeker missle might actually be good, but I've not seen it used. So really your just as ignorant to these strategy's as everyone else, except your just giving one to why this wouldn't work. And if the only disadvantage this strategy has is NP is range 9, it isn't a very good reason. Considering EMP snipe and tanks. Try to read more carefully next time. Did I told something about Ghost being bad at high-level of play ? No. I said that they don't "utterly destroy" this combo. And if you saw only Brat_Ok using ghost vs Zerg as main part of Terran army, then ffs, start following sc2 scene before making silly comments about how Terran doesn't utilize ghosts vs zerg. And please, stfu with you theory crafting when you have completely no idea how TvZ is played late game, in fact, you are even bad at theory crafting. Do you know how much gas Ravens costs ? Do you know what number of infestors will zerg have by the time you will have Ravens ? Do you know how long does it take to produce Raven? Do you know how slow is HSM ? In the end, he will either fungal your Ravens to death or will use them to blow you apart with your own units. Zerg can get infestor/broodlords from four bases if he goes fast for it. Terran is almost always one base behind, so you are saying that Terran should go Ravens/Ghosts/Tanks/Vikings/Thors/Medivacs/Marines from three bases ? Yeah, I'm being ignorant. You have no idea how much time people spent experimenting with Ravens, trying to find their place at the game and you just call them ignorant, because they refuse to use them anymore. I like how people tries to theory craft while they are not even capable of doing that. No matter how carefully I read your post it's always going to be hard to understand someone who posts with broken English. Now if you don't want me to point out how bad your grammar is because your first language isn't English, don't be a dick when I don't understand you straight away. Also show me one more game that the Terran was going for a strategy that was based around heavy ghost play through out the game. Not just as a reaction to infesters. As far as theory crafting goes, I was pointing out that heavy ghost play hasn't been used much at high level, so how would you know how good it is? I didn't mention how it would be used or when. I just pointed out the fact it hasn't been experimented with properly. And unless you give me some proper examples getting all pissy and trying to discredit my argument by talking about my skill level, which you don't know I might add, is pointless. Also I was calling you ignorant more because you completely shut down ideas, without having a good enough perspective on the situation. You probably have no clue what kind of sample size you would need before calling a strategy safe, effective and sustainable. The games been out a year. In terms of strategy that is absolutely nothing. Go look at poker, chess and countless other examples of strategy. If you think just because people have put in a few months of work it means they have solved strategy, you really are very ignorant. | ||
iChau
United States1210 Posts
On July 15 2011 16:56 TENTHST wrote: 2 base terran vs 4 base zerg 126 apm terran vs 137 apm zerg 98 food terran vs 115 food zerg terran wins. Pay attention. Zerg hasn't saturated his 4th. Zerg has 1.7k minerals and 1k gas. APM doesn't matter, I don't care if you're a high bronze with 300 APM, that doesn't make you good. On July 16 2011 22:27 haffy wrote: Show nested quote + On July 16 2011 22:17 Huragius wrote: On July 16 2011 11:31 Ballistixz wrote: On July 15 2011 19:03 Snowbear wrote: On July 15 2011 18:48 haffy wrote: On July 15 2011 17:38 DooMDash wrote: On July 15 2011 16:56 TENTHST wrote: 2 base terran vs 4 base zerg 126 apm terran vs 137 apm zerg 98 food terran vs 115 food zerg terran wins. So? I have higher APM than white-ra and lzgamer but they would still beat the crap out of me. My Z apm is also 150, it has to do with the fact that everything moves at 100 mph you automatically will have higher APM. Also it's extremely common for Terran to be down in supply, even at pro level. Terran can't possibly compete with Zerg macro, they are about position, abuse, and maximizing efficiency ( with micro and said position ). I love how your post completely ignores all logic beyond supply and apm. And that guy had terrible spire position, not my fault I took advantage of his huge mistake. He could have had it a million safe places. I don't put my tech lab researching stim unprotected and say muta are imba because I put it some where stupid, but seems like most Z's do. Zerg entitlement is out of control... thanks idra. Do you honestly think Zerg wouldn't complain about badly designed maps if Idra wasn't Zerg? Do you see terrans complaining about taladar? Do you see terrans complaining about the almost unbeatable infestor + broodlord composition? Do you see terrans complaining that they have to micro excellent to be able to stand a chance while the zerg can just 1a? It's a fact that 90% of the zergs just complain whole the time. I got 6 zerg practice partners and 5 of them are very bm whiners who blame their losses on imbalance. I honestly think that this "zerg is so UP" trend is idra's fault. thats not true. over on the bnet forums there is a huge ammount of QQ about infestors from both terran and toss. in game i get massive ammounts of QQ for using fungal even tho terrans have ghosts and emp to deal with infestors. also its a fact that 98% of statistics on the internet is made up on the spot. like yours for example. well guess what bro, just because you have 6 zerg practice partners and 5 of them are BM whiners dont magically account them as 90% of zerg players that play this game. and no its not idras fault. idra was a whiner in BW and he didnt play zerg. also, infestor broodlord is not unbeatable. ghost for sniping and emp beats it and ravens hunter seeker missles utterly destroy broods. terrans just have yet to experiment with ravens and ghosts more effectively People sometimes should really stay silent if they have no idea about high-level play of SC2. Ghosts are far from destroying Infestor/Broodlords combo and to try Hunter seeker missles against Broodlords while there is infestors with NP of range 9 ? lol. How do you know what ravens and ghosts play like at high level play? The only person I've seen use ghosts as a main part of their army was BratOK in a match against Darkforce. Also I've not seen ravens even used against this composition, so how do you know it wouldn't be good? PDD kills broodlings before they hit the ground. And hunter seeker missle might actually be good, but I've not seen it used. So really your just as ignorant to these strategy's as everyone else, except your just giving one to why this wouldn't work. And if the only disadvantage this strategy has is NP is range 9, it isn't a very good reason. Considering EMP snipe and tanks. I think the pros have tried using those units/spells in team practice already. | ||
Shade_FR
France378 Posts
The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Yes, do you know how much Broodlords / Infestor cost ? Blizzard reduced Ghost gas price for a reason. Terran will eventually learn to play against such units. BL/Infestor is very hard to get, it cost a ton of gas/money and you can't get them on camping 2 bases, you need 3/4 or more, and get a perfect transition (going straight to BL/Infestor will make you lose the game). Balanced. | ||
constantqt
176 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:09 ShadeOfDraG wrote: Show nested quote + The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Yes, do you know how much Broodlords / Infestor cost ? Blizzard reduced Ghost gas price for a reason. Terran will eventually learn to play against such units. BL/Infestor is very hard to get, it cost a ton of gas/money and you can't get them on camping 2 bases, you need 3/4 or more, and get a perfect transition (going straight to BL/Infestor will make you lose the game). Balanced. it was said many times already but the price change actually made ghosts less accesable than before | ||
DjayEl
France252 Posts
| ||
gurrpp
United States437 Posts
On July 16 2011 11:31 Ballistixz wrote: Show nested quote + On July 15 2011 19:03 Snowbear wrote: On July 15 2011 18:48 haffy wrote: On July 15 2011 17:38 DooMDash wrote: On July 15 2011 16:56 TENTHST wrote: 2 base terran vs 4 base zerg 126 apm terran vs 137 apm zerg 98 food terran vs 115 food zerg terran wins. So? I have higher APM than white-ra and lzgamer but they would still beat the crap out of me. My Z apm is also 150, it has to do with the fact that everything moves at 100 mph you automatically will have higher APM. Also it's extremely common for Terran to be down in supply, even at pro level. Terran can't possibly compete with Zerg macro, they are about position, abuse, and maximizing efficiency ( with micro and said position ). I love how your post completely ignores all logic beyond supply and apm. And that guy had terrible spire position, not my fault I took advantage of his huge mistake. He could have had it a million safe places. I don't put my tech lab researching stim unprotected and say muta are imba because I put it some where stupid, but seems like most Z's do. Zerg entitlement is out of control... thanks idra. Do you honestly think Zerg wouldn't complain about badly designed maps if Idra wasn't Zerg? Do you see terrans complaining about taladar? Do you see terrans complaining about the almost unbeatable infestor + broodlord composition? Do you see terrans complaining that they have to micro excellent to be able to stand a chance while the zerg can just 1a? It's a fact that 90% of the zergs just complain whole the time. I got 6 zerg practice partners and 5 of them are very bm whiners who blame their losses on imbalance. I honestly think that this "zerg is so UP" trend is idra's fault. thats not true. over on the bnet forums there is a huge ammount of QQ about infestors from both terran and toss. in game i get massive ammounts of QQ for using fungal even tho terrans have ghosts and emp to deal with infestors. The times have certainly changed. I played a game yesterday as random where the other guy asked me my race. I told him "The OP race" and he guessed zerg immediately 0.o | ||
Jackbo
Korea (South)102 Posts
On July 16 2011 23:05 Elefanto wrote: The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Just tested this out. I managed to hit 11 infestors with 1 emp, which drains 1100 energy in total. Should test these things out before arguing about them =/ | ||
nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On July 17 2011 03:01 Jackbo wrote: Show nested quote + On July 16 2011 23:05 Elefanto wrote: The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Just tested this out. I managed to hit 11 infestors with 1 emp, which drains 1100 energy in total. Should test these things out before arguing about them =/ Well any decent player will be spreading them out... | ||
BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
Thanks. | ||
Jayrod
1820 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:09 ShadeOfDraG wrote: Show nested quote + The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Yes, do you know how much Broodlords / Infestor cost ? Blizzard reduced Ghost gas price for a reason. Terran will eventually learn to play against such units. BL/Infestor is very hard to get, it cost a ton of gas/money and you can't get them on camping 2 bases, you need 3/4 or more, and get a perfect transition (going straight to BL/Infestor will make you lose the game). Balanced. I guess we will see. | ||
Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On July 17 2011 03:01 Jackbo wrote: Show nested quote + On July 16 2011 23:05 Elefanto wrote: The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Just tested this out. I managed to hit 11 infestors with 1 emp, which drains 1100 energy in total. Should test these things out before arguing about them =/ Cant imagine how you would manage to hit 11. Tested it now 2 times with the absolute best outcome in term of zerg unit formation and emp hitting area. 9 were max, and those are fictive scenarios, in no real game would you manage to hit that many. Look for the bubbles to count them. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + | ||
Amui
Canada10558 Posts
Top right, 7 hexes from ramp to nexus. Very awkward to wall, idk what to do with this Bottom right 5 hexes, one of a couple possible ways to do it. Top left 5 hexes, again another way to do it. Finally, bottom left, the only one that is extremely straightforward. 6 hexes from ramp to nexus. For reference it takes 4 3x3 buildings AND 2 pylons to fully wall off the ramp...don't do it. | ||
Emporio
United States3069 Posts
| ||
shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
just plug the gap with a hold zealot :/ there's no need for perfect symmetry, there's plenty of luck involved in the game already - changing such a minor imperfection in the map design is like spoonfeeding the noobs. | ||
Chibithor
Brazil514 Posts
On July 17 2011 03:16 Elefanto wrote: Show nested quote + On July 17 2011 03:01 Jackbo wrote: On July 16 2011 23:05 Elefanto wrote: The problem with ghosts is that you need a shitton of them, because at best you can hit 3 infestors to drain them mana. And 1 shot drains 100 mana, so you have to hit like 20 emps, there's not much left for sniping action. Just pointing out the difficulties, not saying it's imbalanced or anything. Just tested this out. I managed to hit 11 infestors with 1 emp, which drains 1100 energy in total. Should test these things out before arguing about them =/ Cant imagine how you would manage to hit 11. Tested it now 2 times with the absolute best outcome in term of zerg unit formation and emp hitting area. 9 were max, and those are fictive scenarios, in no real game would you manage to hit that many. Look for the bubbles to count them. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + I got a single EMP to hit 14 infestors by just grouping them and moving them around a bit. Near-impossible situation in an actual game, but just saying, I don't see how you only got it to hit 9 max. + Show Spoiler + | ||
EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
| ||
Fym
United Kingdom189 Posts
| ||
zhurai
United States5660 Posts
no information about it. this ptr's just testing the new maps. that's all. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On July 17 2011 06:07 shizna wrote: Because on a map like that which is designed to be symmetrical (in this case rotationally symmetrical), why should spawning at one base have an inherent advantage or disadvantage over another, other than from the merits of being rotationally symmetrical? It would be like making one ramp on a map require 3 supply depots and a barracks while the others only need 2 supply depots and a barracks to wall off. It makes a huge difference, even though it seems insignificant.why is 7 hexes so hard to wall but 6 hexes is standard? just plug the gap with a hold zealot :/ there's no need for perfect symmetry, there's plenty of luck involved in the game already - changing such a minor imperfection in the map design is like spoonfeeding the noobs. | ||
| ||
WardiTV Korean Royale
Day 3
[ Submit Event ] |
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Britney 42957 Dota 2Rain 14071 Sea 7460 ggaemo 3291 firebathero 3093 Bisu 1546 Shuttle 756 Pusan 519 Soulkey 273 ZerO 204 [ Show more ] Counter-Strike Other Games summit1g9638 B2W.Neo1215 DeMusliM723 crisheroes516 shoxiejesuss480 Beastyqt391 ArmadaUGS328 Lowko256 XaKoH 190 hiko136 NuckleDu118 Liquid`VortiX98 Trikslyr63 nookyyy 29 KnowMe21 Organizations Dota 2 StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War
StarCraft 2 • AfreecaTV YouTube StarCraft: Brood War• aXEnki • intothetv • Gussbus • Kozan • IndyKCrew • LaughNgamez Trovo • Laughngamez YouTube • Migwel • Poblha League of Legends Other Games |
WardiTV Korean Royale
OSC
OSC
StarsWar
Maru vs Spirit
ShoWTimE vs GuMiho
Firefly vs herO
Oliveira vs SKillous
Chat StarLeague
H.4.0.S
Chat StarLeague
Afreeca Global
Cure vs Stats
Creator vs Solar
StarsWar
Chat StarLeague
[ Show More ] BSL
Dewalt vs Zhanhun
ForJumy Cup
Chat StarLeague
H.4.0.S
GSL Code S
|
|