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Please try to keep the discussion civil. And while I can't ask everyone to write a huge essay like tree.hugger, try to write out your opinions in a substantive, well-thought way. |
On September 09 2011 10:07 DarkRise wrote: It's kinda ironic that the article about IEM is about the loser of the final. Puma has been robbed!!!
I feel like that point of the article is that Puma was doing the robbing.
Now, whether that's justified or not is a different issue.
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On September 09 2011 10:10 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:06 WhiteDog wrote:On September 09 2011 10:01 Olinim wrote:On September 09 2011 09:59 WhiteDog wrote:On September 09 2011 09:13 robopork wrote:On September 09 2011 08:10 kofman wrote: Wow, its sad to see even the TL admins become protoss whiners.
Seriously, just because your in love with MC, doesn't mean that Puma sucks, like you say in the article. The article by Treehugger makes me sick, it looks like something taken out of the bnet forums. Please, go cry somewhere else.
"Protoss have tried everything at their disposal." Really? This just shows how stupid this article is. I don't think anyone will disagree when I say that motherships haven't been explored nearly enough. They have the amazing ability to vortex every unit into a tiny little space, and yet, no one has experimented with it. I'm just amazed at how this piece of complete bullshit was able to make it to the front page of TL. Blizzard said explicitly that the mothership wasn't even intended for competitive play, it's a piece of candy for casual gamers. "There are some units that just aren't going to be used at "high" levels of play and the Mothership is probably one of them. We currently don't have any plans to change this unit." Cited from the community manager in this b.net forum: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1020823601?page=4#71I'm amazed at how resiliant people like you are to cold, hard, numerical facts. http://i.imgur.com/bdP2e.pngIf one of the races remains as under powered and dysfunctional as P is now and as Z was six months ago for very long sc2 will lose it's credibility as an esport. Pull your head out of your ass and be a team player, we need to care more about the game than about our individual races or the pro's who play them. Your stats doesn't show shit... When zerg were struggling protoss were saying no it's okay. Now protoss is struggling, but they are after a long time of zerg being downhill, they need a certain time to adapt to zerg new strenght. Also, there is a patch coming, with an immortal buff and a certain number of nerf... why not waiting that ? Zerg where QQing and everybody in the protoss community where there saying looks it's okay just use your units, you play like shit (incontrol was saying that...). Blizzard had to buf infestor... Now protoss nerf like crazy, actually getting a tribune in the front page of TL, which is pretty... well... while they already have a patch coming up... Zergs never were doing bad as Idra lead you to believe. Hardly as bad as the absolute demolition of protoss in Korea. Plus yes blizz buffed infestors, now protoss has a 30 percent winrate and 5 protoss in code s. Toss needs a buff. Are you serious ? See your stats, in your stats the current protoss situation is no way near what zerg had to face from december to march, with 41 to 45% winning, while protoss is only crumbling from 48% to 40% . The only thing that is sure is that, overall, zerg is the race who is has stayed the most under the 50% win ratio, and aside from terran, protoss and zerg win ratio seems rather fragile. Not my stats, I'm talking about korea only which Protoss is doing absolutely horribly in. also even in that graph the worst zerg was at is 40 percent winrate. Toss was at 29 percent in April. No 32% in april, and for one month, while zerg was around 40 and 45% win ratio during half of the year.
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On September 09 2011 10:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:10 Olinim wrote:On September 09 2011 10:06 WhiteDog wrote:On September 09 2011 10:01 Olinim wrote:On September 09 2011 09:59 WhiteDog wrote:On September 09 2011 09:13 robopork wrote:On September 09 2011 08:10 kofman wrote: Wow, its sad to see even the TL admins become protoss whiners.
Seriously, just because your in love with MC, doesn't mean that Puma sucks, like you say in the article. The article by Treehugger makes me sick, it looks like something taken out of the bnet forums. Please, go cry somewhere else.
"Protoss have tried everything at their disposal." Really? This just shows how stupid this article is. I don't think anyone will disagree when I say that motherships haven't been explored nearly enough. They have the amazing ability to vortex every unit into a tiny little space, and yet, no one has experimented with it. I'm just amazed at how this piece of complete bullshit was able to make it to the front page of TL. Blizzard said explicitly that the mothership wasn't even intended for competitive play, it's a piece of candy for casual gamers. "There are some units that just aren't going to be used at "high" levels of play and the Mothership is probably one of them. We currently don't have any plans to change this unit." Cited from the community manager in this b.net forum: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1020823601?page=4#71I'm amazed at how resiliant people like you are to cold, hard, numerical facts. http://i.imgur.com/bdP2e.pngIf one of the races remains as under powered and dysfunctional as P is now and as Z was six months ago for very long sc2 will lose it's credibility as an esport. Pull your head out of your ass and be a team player, we need to care more about the game than about our individual races or the pro's who play them. Your stats doesn't show shit... When zerg were struggling protoss were saying no it's okay. Now protoss is struggling, but they are after a long time of zerg being downhill, they need a certain time to adapt to zerg new strenght. Also, there is a patch coming, with an immortal buff and a certain number of nerf... why not waiting that ? Zerg where QQing and everybody in the protoss community where there saying looks it's okay just use your units, you play like shit (incontrol was saying that...). Blizzard had to buf infestor... Now protoss nerf like crazy, actually getting a tribune in the front page of TL, which is pretty... well... while they already have a patch coming up... Zergs never were doing bad as Idra lead you to believe. Hardly as bad as the absolute demolition of protoss in Korea. Plus yes blizz buffed infestors, now protoss has a 30 percent winrate and 5 protoss in code s. Toss needs a buff. Are you serious ? See your stats, in your stats the current protoss situation is no way near what zerg had to face from december to march, with 41 to 45% winning, while protoss is only crumbling from 48% to 40% . The only thing that is sure is that, overall, zerg is the race who is has stayed the most under the 50% win ratio, and aside from terran, protoss and zerg win ratio seems rather fragile. Not my stats, I'm talking about korea only which Protoss is doing absolutely horribly in. also even in that graph the worst zerg was at is 40 percent winrate. Toss was at 29 percent in April. No 32% in april, and for one month, while zerg was around 40 and 45% win ratio during half of the year. And zerg was rightfully buffed, and for months has stayed around 50 percent. Now protoss is barely even competitive in Korea and needs the same treatment.
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On September 09 2011 10:06 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:04 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 09 2011 09:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 09 2011 09:47 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 09 2011 08:53 Erasme wrote: 5 rax reaper was nerfed because of 1v1, I'm tired of seeing people thinking that it wasn't an abusive strat. See MorroW vs Idra at IEM. I never said it wasn't an abusive strategy. However, the primary reason that the Reaper was nerfed was how imbalanced it was in 2v2, not 1v1. According to Blizz yes. They also said that Zealot Build Time was nerfed because Proxy 2 gate was too strong at the silver level of play. I'll let that sink in a little... I am aware of that, I was just trying to correct the factual inaccuracies in his post. >.> Heh I get you - I hope it didn't come off as dick-ish. Just poking fun at Blizz ^^
Nah, it was more amusing than anything.
Personally, I'm pondering how much hair they've pulled out over the Depot before Barracks nerf causing the 8 rax to become the 11/11 two rax, which provides every bit as much pressure, but is hugely more economical. >.>
I wonder how long it would have taken it to become standard pressure versus Zerg if they hadn't made that nerf...
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On September 09 2011 10:05 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:58 babylon wrote:On September 09 2011 09:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 09 2011 09:47 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 09 2011 08:53 Erasme wrote: 5 rax reaper was nerfed because of 1v1, I'm tired of seeing people thinking that it wasn't an abusive strat. See MorroW vs Idra at IEM. I never said it wasn't an abusive strategy. However, the primary reason that the Reaper was nerfed was how imbalanced it was in 2v2, not 1v1. According to Blizz yes. They also said that Zealot Build Time was nerfed because Proxy 2 gate was too strong at the silver level of play. I'll let that sink in a little... Didn't they nerf the tank because of one tiny map that made mech OP? And then that map was later removed from the pool anyways? Blizzard likes to nerf. I will admit that I have little faith in them, since the only game they've made that is anywhere near balanced is SCBW. I'm not sure about that tank nerf, but it doesn't sound too far from reality. I really don't know if David Kim knows what he's doing. It really bothers me when he says stuff like "Oh I got an email from ______ with a replay, and now I fixed it." As a fan you're just like -_-?? I actually think the map was Steppes of War. Sigh.
I have so many grievances with Blizzard's balance team, but I'll stop while I'm ahead. I already had to wait for years and years to see if they could ever fix the UD vs. Orc match-up in WC3, but that never happened.
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On September 09 2011 09:59 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:13 robopork wrote:On September 09 2011 08:10 kofman wrote: Wow, its sad to see even the TL admins become protoss whiners.
Seriously, just because your in love with MC, doesn't mean that Puma sucks, like you say in the article. The article by Treehugger makes me sick, it looks like something taken out of the bnet forums. Please, go cry somewhere else.
"Protoss have tried everything at their disposal." Really? This just shows how stupid this article is. I don't think anyone will disagree when I say that motherships haven't been explored nearly enough. They have the amazing ability to vortex every unit into a tiny little space, and yet, no one has experimented with it. I'm just amazed at how this piece of complete bullshit was able to make it to the front page of TL. Blizzard said explicitly that the mothership wasn't even intended for competitive play, it's a piece of candy for casual gamers. "There are some units that just aren't going to be used at "high" levels of play and the Mothership is probably one of them. We currently don't have any plans to change this unit." Cited from the community manager in this b.net forum: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1020823601?page=4#71I'm amazed at how resiliant people like you are to cold, hard, numerical facts. http://i.imgur.com/bdP2e.pngIf one of the races remains as under powered and dysfunctional as P is now and as Z was six months ago for very long sc2 will lose it's credibility as an esport. Pull your head out of your ass and be a team player, we need to care more about the game than about our individual races or the pro's who play them. Your stats doesn't show shit... When zerg were struggling protoss were saying no it's okay. Now protoss is struggling, but they are after a long time of zerg being downhill, they need a certain time to adapt to zerg new strenght. Also, there is a patch coming, with an immortal buff and a certain number of nerf... why not waiting that ? The entire zerg community was whining and everybody in the protoss community were there saying looks it's okay just use your units, you play like shit (incontrol was saying that...). Blizzard had to buff infestor... Now protoss whine like crazy because they actually have to innovate (and they even get a tribune in the front page of TL, which is pretty... well...) and integrate the new patch in their playstyle...
Not that I jump at the opportunity to get in the face of a guy with 1000+ posts, but did you even think about my comment or see that I was defending protoss and decide to flame me for it? My point is that people should be on the side of balance, not P or Z or T. This is a continuation of the same graph that was cited all over when zerg was fighting their uphill battle largely (but not entirely) without sympathy. I'm a little wow'd by the lack of thought in your response. Your generalizations about every P user on TL based on what incontrol said on state of the game is a little sad, especially since that was the state of the game in which, when asked what units should be added to protoss, at least 2 of the protoss users in the interview responded by saying what units zerg was missing. The patch is coming, but the immortal buff is to fix PvT, I think. We'll see how the fungal nerf plays out. I find myself wondering, if numbers don't matter to you in balance conversations, what does?
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I am actually glad that TL threw out the pretense of neutrality or indifference to the game balance now that a certain favored race seems struggling. (only in GSL, per David Kim) I was uncomfortable with the silencing of zerg tears in the past while they were struggling (especially v. toss), despite myself playing toss. Now that TL takes an official stance that the game is "imbalanced" (I did not see a disclaimer that this article doesn't represent TL's position) and coincidently allows "designated balance discussion thread", I wonder how far they're willing to go with it and how that will affect the future policy. (A difference race can become/be perceived overpowered/underpowered after a patch or two, as we all know)
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On September 09 2011 09:59 WhiteDog wrote:
When zerg were struggling protoss were saying no it's okay.
Some people said there were "undiscovered", or "invisible" doors that are waiting to be opened. XD
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On September 09 2011 10:24 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:05 QTIP. wrote:On September 09 2011 09:58 babylon wrote:On September 09 2011 09:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 09 2011 09:47 OlorinTheWise wrote:On September 09 2011 08:53 Erasme wrote: 5 rax reaper was nerfed because of 1v1, I'm tired of seeing people thinking that it wasn't an abusive strat. See MorroW vs Idra at IEM. I never said it wasn't an abusive strategy. However, the primary reason that the Reaper was nerfed was how imbalanced it was in 2v2, not 1v1. According to Blizz yes. They also said that Zealot Build Time was nerfed because Proxy 2 gate was too strong at the silver level of play. I'll let that sink in a little... Didn't they nerf the tank because of one tiny map that made mech OP? And then that map was later removed from the pool anyways? Blizzard likes to nerf. I will admit that I have little faith in them, since the only game they've made that is anywhere near balanced is SCBW. I'm not sure about that tank nerf, but it doesn't sound too far from reality. I really don't know if David Kim knows what he's doing. It really bothers me when he says stuff like "Oh I got an email from ______ with a replay, and now I fixed it." As a fan you're just like -_-?? I actually think the map was Steppes of War. Sigh. I have so many grievances with Blizzard's balance team, but I'll stop while I'm ahead. I already had to wait for years and years to see if they could ever fix the UD vs. Orc match-up in WC3, but that never happened.
Steppes of War?? Really??
Ugh. T_T
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On September 09 2011 09:25 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:19 Perscienter wrote:Well, I've been inactive for more than 8 months and looking at the patch logs and top ladder once in a while, I still deduce two things: - People are arguing about an unfinished game.
- The patch policy is one-dimensional and cuts out extremes. Nothing is really good at something. Blizzard balances out by forbidding strong mechanics.
- SC2 Vanilla is at least slightly imbalanced in the current map pool.
Thus I'm currently not interested in playing this game. I've identified such deficiencies in Blizzard's games before and it is only a logical, very democratic answer to the complaints of the community. Sadly, Blizzard is not precise enough to conduct a better policy. I think blaming the patching policy and the community complaints that influence it is missing the main point. This game was just badly conceived from the get-go. There were bad ideas in it from the very beginning. Didn't we already see Warpgates in a 2008 gameplay presentation? The team responsible for designing SC2 dug this hole all by themselves. Any bad patching they've since had to do is an artifact of that process, more than anything else. Warp-in is a double-edged sword, not bad per se. I don't blame the complainers, I blame Blizzard of course. They are the decision-makers. They were certainly not forced to chose this patch path. It's just software and with that manpower you have a lot of freedom to adjust everything. They just decided to balance through nerfs again. It's probably a general problem of politics, corporations and their relationship to the public sphere.
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On September 09 2011 10:32 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:59 WhiteDog wrote:
When zerg were struggling protoss were saying no it's okay.
Some people said there were "undiscovered", or "invisible" doors that are waiting to be opened. XD
The thing is When Zerg were struggling, they did not bother using infestors =/ Fungal growth did 36 damage back then and that is during 8 seconds. Sure they may not have done so much dps, but Protoss does NOT heal. Protoss said it was okay because Zergs never used Infestors =/
But when Protoss are struggling, what can either of the two races say? Nothing. We have been using all of our units because we had to and we have to. Warp prism drops are the only thing left, and even with the proper usage of them, they do not do enough damage (and you cannot save the units you warp in).
That's about it ... The thing with Protoss is that because all of its units are SO damn specialized that to find out all paths of the decision tree is pretty easy. The problem with Terrans and Zergs is that they have so many possibilities that they cannot possibly span out all of their decision trees early game (Zerg especially) and when players were telling Zergs to stop whining and think.
WhiteRa is using warp prisms ... but even then, realize that Protoss drops are essentially a "pay this much to see how much damage to do" where as Zerg and Terrans do not have to worry about the possibility of "HAVING" to lose that much.
Anyway, that being said: One of our units is pretty much unusable (and that is the carrier), because you can't build enough of them, and they don't build fast enough =/
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On September 09 2011 09:14 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:02 Spacedude wrote: I must say that I'm also disappointed that an article that involves such strong, one-sided statements is on the front page of TL, even if these statements are indeed all arcuate - even obvious. I wont pretend that I am in a position to judge these statements, however, I do feel that TL should be very careful when they put something like this on the front page. I'd rather see that TL (as a whole, not players individually) remains strictly neutal and professional when it comes to balance and the like that can potentially hurt the solidity of the game. Unfortunately Starcraft 2 isn't like a 'real' sport in this regard. I'm sure foodball players also blame their underperformance on anything at all between the havens and the earth when they fall short, however, as foodball is more solid at its core mechanics, it's hardly as believable when a foodball player blames his lack of success on his shoes, ect, as it is when a starcraft 2 player blames in on balance. Therefore Starcraft 2 needs solid foundations like TL all the more. I disagree with the idea that TL should just ignore imbalance even if it exists, merely for the sake of preserving the "solidity" of the game (if I misinterpreted your statement and you're not actually saying that, then I apologize, but that's what I gleaned from it). If the game is truly imbalanced, it needs to be acknowledged. TL and any other big community site/figure should not just censor admittances of imbalance if it does indeed exist. There seems to be an opinion popular among many posters here that the success or lack thereof of players is some sort of sacred concept that balance should not be considered a part of because some notion of legitimacy needs to be preserved, but the reality of things is that balance is THE core aspect of how games actually play out as strategies are developed, and thus, really shouldn't be ignored, since it does indeed affect how successful or unsuccessful various players are. Bottom line: If you don't have a balanced game, you don't have a competitively legitimate one, and if the game truly isn't balanced at the highest level, then ignoring it for the sake of preserving a false notion of legitimacy doesn't help things at all. It's essentially covering up to preserve an image that isn't even a reality.
What I ment is that they (TL) should leave these matters up to the board community while they themselves keep a professional distance to it. This is just my opinion, though. TL does strikes me, in general, as being very professional in these matters. The board community should naturally be allow to discuss balance in a thoughtful, objective manner. Also, I don't mind objective articles from TL or their staff on the main page. I'm very much against censorship of any kind. What I'm talking about is more a policy and role than actual censorship. Other than that I agree with you.
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On September 09 2011 10:41 ScythedBlade wrote: But when Protoss are struggling, what can either of the two races say? Nothing. We have been using all of our units because we had to and we have to. Warp prism drops are the only thing left, and even with the proper usage of them, they do not do enough damage (and you cannot save the units you warp in). Who are "we" you're referring to? If you're talking about people playing Protoss as main, that'd include me but I am not sure If I want to be in that "we". I play my games casually and I don't feel the game is imbalanced. And I know that's true to just about everyone in this forum. Only reason balance QQ bursts out is because these casual/non-pros somehow identify themselves with the pros. (and only the Korean ones) Yes, I see toss struggling in GSL and I'm not happy about that. Or rather, I'm not happy about terran dominance and following mass TvTs. It's not an enjoyable experience watching 30 mins of siege/unsiege.
But I have noticed underhanded silencing of certain voices in TL forums and I as a free speech proponent was not comfortable with such a blatant bias. When toss was kicking zerg left and right there were so many bans were given out even to the slightest balance implication. (you post "Forcefield is balanced" while MC is kicking July's ass with forcefields, you get banned)
Other than that I am not against the current outcry against the terran dominance. I've always stated/mantainted that Terran is the most finished race in current iteration of SC2, and it is because SC2 is, as much as you want it to be an e-sport, a goods in the market that Activision Blizzard must profit from for its shareholders.
Expect the more polished zerg in HotS. "We" tosses are the last.
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On September 09 2011 02:49 Ghanburighan wrote: This article is insulting, "If you haven't noticed that protoss sucks against terran, and has profound cost-efficiency difficulties against zerg, it’s because you're blind."
Apparently, I'm blind. What happened to not balance whining on TL? LR threads have become such balance-whine cesspools (ok, they were bad before too, but it's so much worse now), and this article is fueling the anger.
This article makes me profoundly sad. The thing is , that its not really balance whine anymore. Hes not talking about you have trouble with protoss in your platinum diamond low masters league. He is talking about how at the highest levels of play, protoss has some serious problems. Which they do and if you cant see that maybe you dont follow the scene closely enough or you havent seen the recent tournament statistics suggesting that this is true (especially in korea). I dont consider it balance whine when he is just discussing what is going on with protoss in the proffesional scene at the moment. Protoss are struggling and if you cant see that then its because your race bias has blinded you. I play zerg (although i used to play protoss) and i see it very clearly.
I think its also less apparent in the foreign scene (if you only follow the foreign scene) because the level of play isnt quite as high, but unless serious changes are made (who knows if this next patch will help enough or not) then foreigners too will be subject to this clear discrepency between races.
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On September 09 2011 11:10 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:41 ScythedBlade wrote: But when Protoss are struggling, what can either of the two races say? Nothing. We have been using all of our units because we had to and we have to. Warp prism drops are the only thing left, and even with the proper usage of them, they do not do enough damage (and you cannot save the units you warp in). Who are "we" you're referring to? If you're talking about people playing Protoss as main, that'd include me but I am not sure If I want to be in that "we". I play my games casually and I don't feel the game is imbalanced. And I know that's true to just about everyone in this forum. Only reason balance QQ bursts out is because these casual/non-pros are somehow identify themselves with the pros. (and only the Korean ones) Yes, I see toss struggling in GSL and I'm not happy about that. Or rather, I'm not happy about terran dominance and following mass TvTs. It's not an enjoyable experience watching 30 mins of siege/unsiege. But I have noticed underhanded silencing of certain voices in TL forums and I as a free speech proponent was not comfortable with such a blatant bias. When toss was kicking zerg left and right there were so many bans were given out even to the slightest balance implication. (you post "Forcefield is balanced" while MC is kicking July's ass with forcefields, you get banned) Other than that I am not against the current outcry against the terran dominance. I've always stated/mantainted that Terran is the most finished race in current iteration of SC2, and it is because SC2 is, as much as you want it to be an e-sport, a goods in the market that Activision Blizzard must profit from for its shareholders. Expect the more polished zerg in HotS. "We" tosses are the last. There's a difference between sarcastic one line balance comments in LR threads and balance discussion. And also this is their forum, there is no free speech they can ban you for whatever they want.
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On September 09 2011 11:10 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:41 ScythedBlade wrote: But when Protoss are struggling, what can either of the two races say? Nothing. We have been using all of our units because we had to and we have to. Warp prism drops are the only thing left, and even with the proper usage of them, they do not do enough damage (and you cannot save the units you warp in). Who are "we" you're referring to? If you're talking about people playing Protoss as main, that'd include me but I am not sure If I want to be in that "we". I play my games casually and I don't feel the game is imbalanced. And I know that's true to just about everyone in this forum. Only reason balance QQ bursts out is because these casual/non-pros are somehow identify themselves with the pros. (and only the Korean ones) Yes, I see toss struggling in GSL and I'm not happy about that. Or rather, I'm not happy about terran dominance and following mass TvTs. It's not an enjoyable experience watching 30 mins of siege/unsiege. But I have noticed underhanded silencing of certain voices in TL forums and I as a free speech proponent was not comfortable with such a blatant bias. When toss was kicking zerg left and right there were so many bans were given out even to the slightest balance implication. (you post "Forcefield is balanced" while MC is kicking July's ass with forcefields, you get banned) Other than that I am not against the current outcry against the terran dominance. I've always stated/mantainted that Terran is the most finished race in current iteration of SC2, and it is because SC2 is, as much as you want it to be an e-sport, a goods in the market that Activision Blizzard must profit from for its shareholders. Expect the more polished zerg in HotS. "We" tosses are the last. The thing is that regardless of July getting his ass handed to him against MC their was something zergs could have done and they did do (along with some buffs they received) protoss have been consistently nerfed and i think the OP is pointing out that beyond these scary timing attacks (wich will eventually be figured out) protoss doesnt really have much going on for them at the moment (at the HIGHEST levels of play)
This article is not discussing protoss imbalance for casual players playing ladder games, it is talking about protoss very apparent difficulties at the moment in the highest levels of play and how perhaps protoss has always had these holes in their race but players like MC where covering them up with very meticulous timing attacks that may have even made the protoss race look overpowered. Now that most of these timings have been figured out pretty well , we are starting to see where protoss is at when compared with the other races.
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On September 09 2011 11:17 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:10 usethis2 wrote:On September 09 2011 10:41 ScythedBlade wrote: But when Protoss are struggling, what can either of the two races say? Nothing. We have been using all of our units because we had to and we have to. Warp prism drops are the only thing left, and even with the proper usage of them, they do not do enough damage (and you cannot save the units you warp in). Who are "we" you're referring to? If you're talking about people playing Protoss as main, that'd include me but I am not sure If I want to be in that "we". I play my games casually and I don't feel the game is imbalanced. And I know that's true to just about everyone in this forum. Only reason balance QQ bursts out is because these casual/non-pros are somehow identify themselves with the pros. (and only the Korean ones) Yes, I see toss struggling in GSL and I'm not happy about that. Or rather, I'm not happy about terran dominance and following mass TvTs. It's not an enjoyable experience watching 30 mins of siege/unsiege. But I have noticed underhanded silencing of certain voices in TL forums and I as a free speech proponent was not comfortable with such a blatant bias. When toss was kicking zerg left and right there were so many bans were given out even to the slightest balance implication. (you post "Forcefield is balanced" while MC is kicking July's ass with forcefields, you get banned) Other than that I am not against the current outcry against the terran dominance. I've always stated/mantainted that Terran is the most finished race in current iteration of SC2, and it is because SC2 is, as much as you want it to be an e-sport, a goods in the market that Activision Blizzard must profit from for its shareholders. Expect the more polished zerg in HotS. "We" tosses are the last. There's a difference between sarcastic one line balance comments in LR threads and balance discussion. And also this is their forum, there is no free speech they can ban you for whatever they want. That was one example. Do you really expect me to go back and find the bazillion examples, especially the ones with same tone/nuisance/words/etc., but discriminatory to who posted? (It's not hard to find "EMP is balanced" in LR threads, btw.)
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this article is really harsh on MC"the fall of MC".....really?...i mean TL and oGs has a partnership you should write kinder things to a fellow partner. i mean i would never see this type of article with this negativity about jinro right? don't let there be a double standards when talking about players especially those that are supporting your players in Korea and helping them improve....
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The new protoss hope is Hero, please don't let him and MC meet early in Code A...
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