|
On December 23 2011 22:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Pretty sure scarlet quit playing? Can anyone verify that? At the very least I haven't ran into him in ages.
profile stalking shows he last played less than a week ago, but no ranked games in his history maybe that's why you haven't run into him
|
ok zerg russian(rus...). No top solo karthus player builds like that or should. Its pretty much the lamest way to build him. But then this is a low skill game to begin with so I guess anything flies. Since your question to 2 top tier players was probably sent pre season 2, the answer has no bearing. I resent the fact that u say "dont listen to him, this is how ur supposed to do it; these 2 "pros" (the idea of a LoL pro is a joke anyways) told me to do this so this must be the only way!" without actually using any arguments whatsoever to back it up. Real constructive kiddo. Especially since the definate mainstream build at high level is: RoA into Rabadans.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
I've been really unimpressed by tear+wota builds I've seen them all underpreform because karthus gets bursted so hard anyway I feel like what's the point you never get oom and you have infinite mana when you die. You could have RoA instead of tear+wota and sure the laning phase is weaker but karthus already gains sick mana back from farming creeps.
Also Rabadons isn't a sure guarantee best item. Remember that game where xpeke went RoA-->QSS-->Zonyas and just tanked everything? Was pretty ridiculous.
I haven't seen pdiz and phantomlords in tournament and haven't seen them in solo queue since I'm in EU side so I can't comment on how good their karthus is, although karthus is like perma ban here because of how easy it is to win with him.
|
On December 24 2011 22:20 MyTHicaL wrote: ok zerg russian(rus...). No top solo karthus player builds like that or should. Its pretty much the lamest way to build him. But then this is a low skill game to begin with so I guess anything flies. Since your question to 2 top tier players was probably sent pre season 2, the answer has no bearing. I resent the fact that u say "dont listen to him, this is how ur supposed to do it; these 2 "pros" (the idea of a LoL pro is a joke anyways) told me to do this so this must be the only way!" without actually using any arguments whatsoever to back it up. Real constructive kiddo. Especially since the definate mainstream build at high level is: RoA into Rabadans. Hi, I'm 5HITCOMBO. The name "ZERG_RUSSIAN" is a play on words that probably went over your head ("zerg rushing"). Sorry for the sophisticated humor, I shouldn't assume everyone is a strong reader. Who are you cuz I was plat S1 and I have literally every high elo karthus on my friends list.
Like, if you're platinum atm or were ever 2k+ I'll listen to you because you might know what you're talking about but I'm pretty sure that your advice is horrible because it's directly in contrast to what two of the best karths to ever play the game say.
I hate to be pulling rank but seriously the first post I read from you had something like "karthus doesn't have mana problems" in it.
I'll expand even more--revolver lets you straight up solo people 1v1 with your vamp. You still get catalyst, it's part of the core, and obviously you're not finishing AA until your last item, but you can't pass up wota as an item on karth considering that it gives you (and your team) massive sustain. Generally I make the catalyst into a banshee's because I run flat ap/mpen/scaling ap/scaling ap on karthus and get rylais for the hp slot because rylais is retarded good and I generally hate having both rod and rylais on a champ because usually the rod could be a deathcap or an abyssal.
|
You really think tears+catalyst is necessary though? The only time I've ever seen karthus players get it is with the zombie karthus like tears+wota you're talking about. I feel like karthus can kill creeps with relatively little mana used even just spamming Q, compared to other AP champs who need blue buff to get away with it. Combined with the fact you can expect blue buffs from level 6 onwards I really question it even If I'm not a karthus player.
|
On December 24 2011 23:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 22:20 MyTHicaL wrote: ok zerg russian(rus...). No top solo karthus player builds like that or should. Its pretty much the lamest way to build him. But then this is a low skill game to begin with so I guess anything flies. Since your question to 2 top tier players was probably sent pre season 2, the answer has no bearing. I resent the fact that u say "dont listen to him, this is how ur supposed to do it; these 2 "pros" (the idea of a LoL pro is a joke anyways) told me to do this so this must be the only way!" without actually using any arguments whatsoever to back it up. Real constructive kiddo. Especially since the definate mainstream build at high level is: RoA into Rabadans. Hi, I'm 5HITCOMBO. The name "ZERG_RUSSIAN" is a play on words that probably went over your head ("zerg rushing"). Sorry for the sophisticated humor, I shouldn't assume everyone is a strong reader. Who are you cuz I was plat S1 and I have literally every high elo karthus on my friends list. Like, if you're platinum atm or were ever 2k+ I'll listen to you because you might know what you're talking about but I'm pretty sure that your advice is horrible because it's directly in contrast to what two of the best karths to ever play the game say. I hate to be pulling rank but seriously the first post I read from you had something like "karthus doesn't have mana problems" in it. I'll expand even more--revolver lets you straight up solo people 1v1 with your vamp. You still get catalyst, it's part of the core, and obviously you're not finishing AA until your last item, but you can't pass up wota as an item on karth considering that it gives you (and your team) massive sustain. Generally I make the catalyst into a banshee's because I run flat ap/mpen/scaling ap/scaling ap on karthus and get rylais for the hp slot because rylais is retarded good and I generally hate having both rod and rylais on a champ because usually the rod could be a deathcap or an abyssal.
Just because he doesn't really know what he's talking about doesn't mean you should just bash him like that D: This could discourage him from posting in the future.
Edit: ok I just read his post, and it is a bit... obnoxious and naive. But I still think we don't need to bash and destroy him like that.
|
This guy's annoying and I always wish someone with a stun would go mid for him. Otherwise you see the red gas on your head and go "oh shit... how many of my allies are gonna die this time". So strong. So hard to prevent from starving.
Even then he can usually push a lane, then go behind tower and channel req so it can't be interrupted. Teamfight occurs? Focusing him won't kill him till seven seconds later, and you can't stand in his circle of death.
|
The reason karthus wants more mana is because when that fight or chase happens you want to have your E on for as long as possible without running out of mana, but E drains mana like fucking crazy.
I generally don't go tear though, i do like ROA --> WOTA --> deathcap. Then maybe like rylas, void staff, or zhonyas, depending on their comp. For mana I just whore the blue.
Spudboy has a really mean karthus actually, he doesn't get WOTA until after deathcap. I think he goes ROA --> deathcap. Then mostly either wota or void staff from what I have seen.
|
I added in WotA into my build a few times and while it is good for 1v1 situations I rarely find myself losing them anyway (I play at low elo tho so people are retardly easy to kill 1v1 most of the time). Maybe its just the effect of me playing with low lvl players so I don't need it though. I also rarely have mana problems and I rarely go tear or AA at all. I start with boots 2 hp pots and 1 mana pot and just use those with Es passive to not have mana problems. Then catalyst helps and Blue buff. After finishing RoA straight into DC and then it depends on what the other team is building and how they act towards me in team fights because depending on if your priority 1 to kill or not really molds how I build him. I mean I like RoA+Ryalis because you can take a shit ton of damage. If I don't need a void staff My final build looks like RoA/DC/Ryalis/Zohnyas/AB if i want to be tanky and my god you ARE tanky for an AP caster. Especially for one where they in effect waste time "killing" you only to have you still do a fuck ton of damage for a few seconds and then a team wide Nuke.
Thats how I view him though, I want them to focus me because I want them to not be hitting someone like my AD carry because I view myself as expendable because of my passive. I don't know how many games I have seen where we aced the other team with only me dying and I pick up 1-4 kills and the rest assists.
This is at my low elo though so of course it will be different for higher level play. Thats why I really want to get better so I can see how its different and also play vs better people which will make me even better.
|
WOTA is just as big or bigger for teamfights than for 1v1. E leaches a lot of life when multiple people are next to you.
|
I actually think karthus shouldn't get Wota until after Deathcap atleast, preferably after Rylais. Unless you have another AP in the team in which case you can get it before Deathcap. During that time its far more useful for him to have pure damage, then spell vamp imo.
|
Oh I know and it helps your team as a whole, thats why I have been building it more because honestly I had builds that worked for me so I didn't look at guides for him until recently (this thread pointed it out so thanks for that). Its also why I like TL because people like Zerg_Russian who know what they are talking about post here so I can see discussions and adjust/experiment accordingly for more efficient ways to play him.
|
On December 25 2011 04:54 SHr3DD3r wrote: I actually think karthus shouldn't get Wota until after Deathcap atleast, preferably after Rylais. Unless you have another AP in the team in which case you can get it before Deathcap. During that time its far more useful for him to have pure damage, then spell vamp imo.
Thats when I get it, RoA-Deathcap-WotA when I build it.
|
On December 25 2011 04:54 SHr3DD3r wrote: I actually think karthus shouldn't get Wota until after Deathcap atleast, preferably after Rylais. Unless you have another AP in the team in which case you can get it before Deathcap. During that time its far more useful for him to have pure damage, then spell vamp imo.
Honestly the only reason I end up completing my wota first is because I end up going back and I have just enough money to make wota, it's so damn cheap so i just shrug and go eh why not it'll be useful
|
On December 16 2011 09:42 MyTHicaL wrote: I really truly don't understand a karthus pick on dominion... U should not be stacking ANY cool down reduction (except for meijai which isnt even available in dominion) so his ulti is a waste of time... All other damaging global ultis have a smaller cooldown (and for obvious reasons). Karthus is by far my favourite hero, no not because I love to press R; even though its insane to see the amount of retards incapable of picking up a hexdrinker and then proceeding to complain about imbalances... Karthus' strong point is not his R! NEVER build archangel staff on him NEVER. I mean come on guys, mana isn't a problem after early game- you should be picking up your team's blue every time and I can't imagine straying from a very simple build... 1. Doran's ring (only if you plan/CAN be agressive ie; you are not facing a Brand, Orianna, Xerath, LB, and there are a couple of others that will simply own you without boots. 2. Sorc Shoes (duh) 3. Meijais unless you feel very underconfident; in which case I hope you didn't ask for solo mid in ranked. 4. Rod of ages 5. This is where personal preferance comes into play for me; If the opposing team's ad heros are doing anything positive at all; I LOVE to pick up a zhonya's. Most under-rated item in the game imo. Any competent team WILL be focusing you either 1st or 2nd, when they do pop ur E spam your spells then pop zhonya's, and unless your team is completely retarded, your DPS should be devastating to atleast all their melee chars which is quite simply huge= easy team win. 6. Rylais/abyssal/rabadans depending completely on how you're doing/surviving
My main point is: Too many people rely on Karthus' passive, yes you can die. Does that make it beneficial for you to die within the first 5 seconds as a paper cannon stacking raba/arch angels? No. Your E and Q spamming make you a DPS ap carry, and you should be played as such. Archangel staff in general is just a horrible item and should never be picked up except maybe as a final item but even then... I'm so sick of seeing horrible face-palm-inducing-builds. Although Karthus can be considered (barely) bannable, he is by no means OP, his ulti can/will annoy the enemy team at low elo early game since if you're paying half-attention to the map (as any decent LoL/HoN/DotA player should be.) you will beable to snipe the occasional hero or 2/pick up assists/save your team mates. Most people that complain about karthus being imbalanced are just simply too stupid to read through the item description list. I can't stress how badly hexdrinker pwns early/mid and honestly even late game karthus' ulti. Unless your requiem is doing 600+ damage with full magic penetration (which basically means your way too farmed anyways) they should survive it. Karthus is not a R champion, he is a DPS carry and should be built/played as such.
I just wanted to quote this because I really agree. Archangel is always my last item when I get it. Sometimes, I'll get a fast needlessly large rod if I am getting farmed early.Karthus dying should only be done to make a push happen or when you have a good chance of wiping out the enemy team. If I do not get at least 1 kill and 2 assists, then dying was a waste. I consider dying successful when I get triple kills or 2 kills and 1 assist, or we get kills and a turret. I prefer to initiate with a wall, and then let DPS champs weaken them, and then go in with Defile to finish them off.
|
|
i'm so puzzled about all those people getting wota on karthus ... i just don't understand it. you die so fast and wota has an horrible gold/ap ratio. not even talking about tears which will make you even more one-shottable in the laning phase. roa->deathcap-> void staff still my favorite build but karthus is permabanned those days
|
Pdiz likes rylais after tear/revolver while phantoml0rd tends to finish wota and go straight deathcap. Scarlet's the only one who goes catalyst but I only have a one game sample from him.
|
i think the reasoning behind tear vs cata should be: Am I good enough at karthus to abuse his 875 (+100) range nuke and his 1000 range wall to be able to sufficiently farm and harass without my enemy touching me. If the answer is yes, go for tear, if no, go for cata for the hp buffer. I fall in the latter category, I know i'm terrible at karthus so i always go cata first on him. My build on karthus is cata -> roa -> rylais -> frozen heart -> abyssal, because i already know i'm not going to be able to maximize my damage output, so i might as well go for a higher utility build. If i honestly wanted to pick up karthus as a champion i want to be skilled with, i would start going for a more glass cannon build.
Wota/tear honestly seems like a good item combo (note this is from a purely theorycraft perspective, i havn't even played karth recently, but the build 5hit offered makes a decent amount of sense to me) since it's essentially a different buildpath from catalyst. Tear covers the mana part of catalyst and wota/revolver covers the hp sustain, but ofc, why replace catalyst? Well the benefits over catalyst is with tear you get an enormous mana pool really fast, as opposed to roa where it will take some time. Revolver sustain is pretty clearly superior to cata's, especially since karthus' dps output is pretty enormous, so hopefully i dont need to explain that. This isn't really a fair comparison tho, since we're basically looking at a 1300 gold item vs a 1k and 1.2k gold, totalling ~2.2k, but if you compare it to a roa rush (which you're prob inevitably going to do) then if you move on to the next step, you're going to be comparing roa vs tear + wota, and then i can see how a tear + revolver start can be justified.
Btw, this is just kinda rambling, hopefully i said something that sorta made sense, but i'm starting to get LoL withdrawal (omg want my laptop to come back t.t) so i seem to be thinking about these kinds of things more often.
|
On December 25 2011 03:24 Abenson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 23:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On December 24 2011 22:20 MyTHicaL wrote: ok zerg russian(rus...). No top solo karthus player builds like that or should. Its pretty much the lamest way to build him. But then this is a low skill game to begin with so I guess anything flies. Since your question to 2 top tier players was probably sent pre season 2, the answer has no bearing. I resent the fact that u say "dont listen to him, this is how ur supposed to do it; these 2 "pros" (the idea of a LoL pro is a joke anyways) told me to do this so this must be the only way!" without actually using any arguments whatsoever to back it up. Real constructive kiddo. Especially since the definate mainstream build at high level is: RoA into Rabadans. Hi, I'm 5HITCOMBO. The name "ZERG_RUSSIAN" is a play on words that probably went over your head ("zerg rushing"). Sorry for the sophisticated humor, I shouldn't assume everyone is a strong reader. Who are you cuz I was plat S1 and I have literally every high elo karthus on my friends list. Like, if you're platinum atm or were ever 2k+ I'll listen to you because you might know what you're talking about but I'm pretty sure that your advice is horrible because it's directly in contrast to what two of the best karths to ever play the game say. I hate to be pulling rank but seriously the first post I read from you had something like "karthus doesn't have mana problems" in it. I'll expand even more--revolver lets you straight up solo people 1v1 with your vamp. You still get catalyst, it's part of the core, and obviously you're not finishing AA until your last item, but you can't pass up wota as an item on karth considering that it gives you (and your team) massive sustain. Generally I make the catalyst into a banshee's because I run flat ap/mpen/scaling ap/scaling ap on karthus and get rylais for the hp slot because rylais is retarded good and I generally hate having both rod and rylais on a champ because usually the rod could be a deathcap or an abyssal. Just because he doesn't really know what he's talking about doesn't mean you should just bash him like that D: This could discourage him from posting in the future. Edit: ok I just read his post, and it is a bit... obnoxious and naive. But I still think we don't need to bash and destroy him like that. treat others how they deserve to be treated... clueless but nice people always get good advice here. kids acting like dicks... i think it's amusing seeing them get shut down. also as a karth main'er i should read ZR's advice because i've just been doin my thang basically, had never even considered spell vamp on him.
e-- Can you, ZergRussian, offer some advice on building karth/what champs in particular to watch out for 1v1?
|
|
|
|