MLG Arena and the TL Calendar - Page 52
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On February 25 2012 06:18 Torte de Lini wrote: You really have nothing to base any numbers on. You're just skeptical about 500 because how little you know. And you're good at sharing your knowledge it seems >< Until then I'll say that what you think you know is wrong. Sorry but this kind of post is really bad. | ||
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 25 2012 06:25 MrCon wrote: And you're good at sharing your knowledge it seems >< Until then I'll say that what you think you know is wrong. Sorry but this kind of post is really bad. Now you see the point of how pointless your post is. It becomes a he said/she said. I'd inform you on my own understanding, but it would only serve on being proven right and not for general overall use. Bottom-line is, is that it's none of our business either way. | ||
vVv Brock
United States5 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:27 Calyeah wrote: Also find it pretty cringe worthy the way the vVv guys flock into the thread and act like they are doing, we all know you getting paid is tied up into how successful this experiment of MLGs is... I usually just sit back and read without posting, but I've seen this multiple times in this thread so hopefully I can clear everything up. MLG does not pay us for anything except for if you buy a PPV pass using our code. So, to reiterate, unless you go on our site, click on the link to buy a PPV pass in the thread on our site, and then use the code to buy the pass, we gain nothing. MLG can sell 100,000 pass for the Winter Arena, but he won't get anything unless buyers use our code. And as for how much we get per person, I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to give the exact amount per person that uses our code, but I can tell you that it's a VERY small percentage of the $20 that MLG is charging. To give you an idea, djWheat said on his most recent episode of Live on 3 that he also has a link that people can use, but he said that he could stream for a few hours one night and make more than he'll probably get from MLG's PPV passes, total. And that's djWheat. He's huge in the SC2 scene for obvious reasons, and he's saying that he'll make more just by streaming for a short while than he'll make with this program with MLG. So, in short, when Jerry said that he has no stake in this, he means it. We had no players invited to the Winter Arena, we don't make a dime if MLG sells more passes unless they use our link when buying, and even the people that do use our link only make us a very small amount per sale. We want eSports to grow as big as it can, and that means many of these different leagues and organizations need to work together. I actually have absolutely no problem with TL asking MLG for some type of payment to help advertise the event, but if it's really $10,000, that's kind of ridiculous. I believe LordJerith for the simple fact that he's been right too many times in the past. Most rationally thinking people would believe a scientist if they were to say that they discovered a new planet light years away because these scientists have been right so many times before. I don't believe every single word he says every time, but if he says he has a credible source, then I believe him. It's not being a sheep if the guy in charge has proven time and time again that he knows what he's talking about. This is my opinion, and you're all more than welcome to disagree with me, but how many times in the past has LordJerith simply lied to the eSports community or the SC2 community? Again, he has no stake in this. We have no players at this event, we don't get anything if MLG sells more passes, and the people who actually do use are code hardly give us anything at all. Jerry wants to see eSprots as a whole grow, and he thinks this decision goes against growing eSports. That's really it. Just wanted to clear that up. Edit: I apologize to the moderators ahead of time since I hadn't seen the post earlier about stopping with the vVv talk, but this issue had been brought up multiple times in this thread and I really wanted to clear everything up. | ||
MrCon
France29748 Posts
On February 25 2012 06:28 Torte de Lini wrote: Now you see the point of how pointless your post is. It becomes a he said/she said. I'd inform you on my own understanding, but it would only serve on being proven right and not for general overall use. Bottom-line is, is that it's none of our business either way. I think you're mixing up TL as a whole with a simple calendar entry. Yes, TL can make or break an event. No, a calendar entry won't bring thousands of paying customers that would have not bought it otherwise (that's the main point). Those customers are already reached via the massive amounts of MLG Arena threads, the LR thread, the TL preview and so on. At least that's what I think, and I think it's not a delirious assumption toi make. | ||
Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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vVv Brock
United States5 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
On February 25 2012 07:19 Yamoth wrote: I am so lost right now. Can someone tell me where this 10k figure came from? That's what I'd like to know too. Have a feeling he just came up with that number. | ||
pr0bez
United States50 Posts
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Secret05
United States342 Posts
On February 25 2012 07:23 vVv Brock wrote: Quick question. I understand how huge TL is and how much they can help an event, but doesn't everyone here know about the Winter Arena by now? Will them not putting it on their calendar really hurt it at this point? That isn't the point though. This thread is really get out of hand and needs to be be straightened out. I have zero problem with what Team Liquid did and I 100% understand that MLG would be upset with this. I understand both sides of the situation. The main issue I have with this is that without tournaments like MLG, GSL, IPL, WCG, NASL, Dreamhack, SPL, and many more, then Team Liquid doesn't even exist. Team Liquid is only here because of this wonderful game and wonderful tournaments that we have. If the game is gone or the tournaments are gone then Team Liquid also is gone. I just think it's a really poor business practice to not promote the MLG Winter Arena this weekend, because indirectly it's just hurting Team Liquid, itself, in the long run. Decisions like these are very tough though I absolutely understand how this thread became so popular. I wrote a post earlier in this thread explaining the business aspect of my opinion, below you can read it in the spoiler if you are interested. + Show Spoiler + Here's my opinion with this entire situation: Let's first start with an example. Lets say I owned a jewelry manufacturing company, the only one in the world. I was a very successful company due to various reasons. In my company I produced three different types of jewelry: bronze, silver, and gold. In the whole world there was also only three mines that gathered/mined these minerals. The mines were named as follows, Bronzonian (mined the bronze minerals), Silverado (mined the silver minerals), and Goldtopia (mined the gold minerals). These were the only mines in the entire world and I was the only jewelry manufacturer in the whole world. The only reason they were in business was because I bought minerals from them and the only reason I was in business was because I had a supplier of these minerals. Our companies could only be prosperous if both of us were in business, without either the jewelry manufacturer or the mines the other companies would fail. With that being said, during our lifetime of business we would want to make sure that both the mines and the jewelry manufacturer were prosperous, because without each other cannot exist. Now lets say the gold mine has a series natural disasters causing them to have more expenses than expected. Because of these expenses they will now probably have to charge more per carrot of gold. Now there's a fine line between what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable. As long as it's reasonably close to acceptable the jewelry manufacturer shouldn't have any problem with paying the extra cost to buy the gold. Because remember, if the gold mine goes out of business there is no other gold mines in the whole world and we would not be able to make gold jewelry ever again. So we can take the risk and not pay the gold miner more money, but if they go out of business because we were stingy and stupid then in turn we hurt our own business. In business there are other businesses that play a key role in why you are in business. There are some businesses that are only around because other businesses are there and if one business were to fail then a whole series of businesses would then suffer. So in the business world it is important to plan for the future and to always remember that there are other businesses that you are counting on and there are businesses that are counting on you. Now to my main point. Yes, I know that teamliquid has been around for a long time, but at the start of Starcraft 2 teamliquid changed itself from a hobby to a business. They now have headquarters and have actual paid employees. I feel like there are a few major factors that have put Team Liquid on the next level and made them a sustainable business including GomTV (GSL), Major League Gaming (MLG), Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, and of course the most important Blizzard, because without blizzard there wouldn't even be Starcraft 2. Now I feel like Team Liquid is hurting (not intentionally) MLG by not putting up the MLG Winter Arena event on the calendar and on the countdown timer. Now you might say who cares, we don't agree with MLG charging $20 per person to watch their event, but by hurting MLG Team Liquid is in turn hurting itself. Without MLG the North American Starcraft 2 scene is way different and many people would lose a tremendous amount of interest in the game (yes i know IPL is also in NA). MLG is like one of the mines in my example and Team Liquid is like the jewelry manufacturer. By not putting the MLG Winter Arena on the calendar and countdown Team Liquid is hurting MLG and is also indirectly hurting itself. **I apologize for any grammar or spelling mistakes, I wrote this very fast and it's 2 am. I didn't reread this because I'm too tired so hopefully I made sense. | ||
Merfyn
United Kingdom945 Posts
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
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Sheppard83
Germany14 Posts
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act.hero
United States205 Posts
I feel like stream viewers already pay by watching advertising, and MLG should be making money by selling tickets at real events. Look at convention statistics, you don't even need to have competition and you can still make money selling tickets to people. People like going to that kind of thing. MLG is a big event, with usually lots of space, and lots of stuff to do I'd assume. Money for streaming is free, because it barely costs anything to stream, and the real costs are in the real life location. Real ways a real business should react to hemmoraging money would be to A) Focus on online tournaments. In that case, they wouldn't waste hundreds of thousands of dollars paying people to set up a real life location that throws money in an incinerator. B) Charge a reasonable price for the real life tournaments. MLG already has some of the lowest prize pools of any tournaments for SC2. Last year was a joke. Paying for korean plane tickets cost more than winning first place. And they wonder why they're losing money. Again. Stream viewers barely cost MLG anything. Saying that they need to make money because they are losing money isn't a reasonable argument, because streaming isn't why they're losing money. If they're paying for the koreans flights (and this is only koreans, not everyone) that's like $40,000 alone. For a total prize pool of $26,000. That's a joke. TL:DR MLG needs to fix their priorities. Esports doesn't need unsustainable business plans. | ||
Sheppard83
Germany14 Posts
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Apocalyte
United States13 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On February 25 2012 07:09 vVv Brock wrote: Most rationally thinking people would believe a scientist if they were to say that they discovered a new planet light years away because these scientists have been right so many times before This thread continues to provide entertainment, I've completely lost interest in the topic because it's so minor, straightforward and relatively inconsequential. However, what you are saying is completely ridiculous, science is based on fact and proof. | ||
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On February 25 2012 10:05 Full.tilt wrote: This thread continues to provide entertainment, I've completely lost interest in the topic because it's so minor, straightforward and relatively inconsequential. However, what you are saying is completely ridiculous, science is based on fact and proof. That's a keeper you got there. I think I'm going to print it out and take it to varsity to show all the guys. | ||
Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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alpinefpOPP
United States134 Posts
On another note i will not be watching mlg this weekend. | ||
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