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On March 29 2012 06:23 unix04 wrote: I think MKP showed the viability of going tankless against Z in the recent MLG. Some people respond asking if anyone has MKP level micro, but DRG is 'pretty good' too. Most likely, your Z opponents wont be as good as DRG, and you don't need MKP level micro to pull it off against an opponent that's many times weaker than DRG.
MMM + blue flame hellion could be a nice composition against ling/bling compositions. is this better than tank play? maybe, maybe not. we'll know if this type of play becomes more popular and becomes a standard alternative to tank play. best complement of any strategy is when people are using it more often
You forget that zerg micro is far more easier than terran so even low level zerg players have no problems against full bio terran if the terran is noob.
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Again, the micro argument, but think about it.
You're walking across the map to attack and you get jumped mid field by a ling/bling force. With tanks, you have to select your tank group and siege them (2 actions) you then have to stim your marines and begin spliting as best you can. Chances are, lings have already engaged you and you're starting to take friendly fire from your tanks and NOW the banelings crash into you.
Pure Bio force. You see the enemy and you immediately stim (1 action) then you select your marine ground and run them in the direction that will put the marauders between the zerg and the marines. (1 action) Then you patrol your marines (1 action)
Bio has a much easier and straight forward set of reactions and critically you don't have to burn scans to know exactly where the zerg is at all times.
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I like playing bio against zerg because I can relentlessly go aggressive on them with drops and multi pronged attacks. It's a bit harder to do that because tanks eat into your gas, but if you had that gas for faster upgrades + a ton of medivacs, it's almost unbeatable.
Have you guys seen DeMuslim vs Delphi in NASL2 team league? Game 2, Demuslim went tankless (later on) and had like, 20 medivacs (almost one for each unit) and quite literally, infestors NOR banelings could make a dent in that ball (marauders tank a TON of ling DPS, believe it or not)
This is countered by mass lings IMO, early on, until you get your medivacs. Then you have to drop a ton, and eventually overpower the zerg in sheer macro (you need damage done by drops) I still think marine/tank is probably gonna be more easier early on because of AOE and focus fire banelings, but, bio's advantage has always been mobile, aggression, and you can make your units a ton more cost effective with good micro.
If you do go tanks, I usually like to limit myself to 6 max: I feel that I love having more marines, because it makes me feel gosu splitting :D
I can see baneling landmines being a problem (since nobody builds ravens now) because you'll have to scan a lot, banelings do a lot of damage to marines, and those scans could've been mules which is required for mineral-heavy bio. But I'm just theory-crafting here T_T
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On March 30 2012 04:09 Unwardil wrote: Again, the micro argument, but think about it.
You're walking across the map to attack and you get jumped mid field by a ling/bling force. With tanks, you have to select your tank group and siege them (2 actions) you then have to stim your marines and begin spliting as best you can. Chances are, lings have already engaged you and you're starting to take friendly fire from your tanks and NOW the banelings crash into you.
Pure Bio force. You see the enemy and you immediately stim (1 action) then you select your marine ground and run them in the direction that will put the marauders between the zerg and the marines. (1 action) Then you patrol your marines (1 action)
Bio has a much easier and straight forward set of reactions and critically you don't have to burn scans to know exactly where the zerg is at all times.
First of all the patrol method is just terrible way to split your forces there is just too big risk it will fuck up even though you practiced it a dozen of times. Second if you DO count splitting of your marines as a ONE action then youre probably better than marineking himself or never seen zerg that runs his banes from different directions....To be honest position your marauders in motion PROPERLY is way harder than going marine tank (btw you dont have to burn scans how about use marine to spot for you ?) So sorry to say but your thinking is just wrong
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I don't see why you would think that you can only get double upgrades or tanks. I always get double(triple after armory) upgrades in TvZ and at the same time keep building tanks. I only use 2-4 medivacs with my army while having a double medivac drop elsewhere. Instead of getting a lot of medivacs I usually move onto double tank production earlier.
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What is proper marine split technique? What mkp uses?
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what are you talking about tanks are great vs everything except mutalisks and broodlords. tanks splash the shit out of zerglings, banelings, broaches, infestors and ultralisks
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@ Janders What I'm talking about is when you're facing pure zergling, what your tanks mostly end up splashing is your own marines.
As for the tanks or double upgrades, what I'm talking about is getting a 13 minute 2/2 off of a reactor hellion expand build. If you can get a 13 minute 2/2 upgrades while getting tanks and medivacs I would like to see your build so I can steal it.
@ Yoshgo
I don't count the marine splitting as a single action, I count right clicking the marines to a favorable position as a single action. The split from there can either be done with slicing or with patrolling, personal preferance there. Against speed banelings though, you have very little time to make that call and the marauders buy you precious milliseconds to get your marines fanned out to receive them. Conc shells buys you even more time, slowing down the lead banes and causing the ones behind to get bunched up in a baneling log jam as they try to maneuver through your marauders.
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