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On August 03 2012 23:03 Greggle wrote: No I will not switch. Why? Because it doesn't even matter anymore. Graphics won't improve significantly anymore. I no longer have any desire to improve my computer's graphical performance.
Graphics will definitely go on improving. We're seeing a slowdown over the last few years as the console hardware is so outdated, and developers don't want to lose sales by sticking to PC.
Give it another 3-4 years and the games we're playing now will look dated.
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On August 03 2012 17:48 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 17:19 Roman666 wrote: The problem with Linux is a number of distributions and different version of dependencies between libraries. To develop a product targeted for mass audience, where anyone has a different distribution with different kernel, and etc will be hell. It might happen that there will be certain distributions for which games will be written, lead basically to the same situation as we have now, just instead of Windows we will have lets say Ubuntu or other dist. Nah, it doesn't work like that. Different distros are just different combinations of linux software, there's nothing exclusive. Any linux program you want, you can have on any distro, you just need to install it. Same would happen with games, if they depend on library X, just install it. Now if you do that using apt-get, manually or any other package system, that's up to you and your distro, nothing else. Still it creates a headache for developers - they need to state precisely which version of the library they compiled the game against - in open source development you can not hope that some day, one guy wont come up with the idea: "Oh this API is shit, lets totally burn it and rewrite it". End user will be forced to downgrade his system to older libs to play a certain game, or keep several versions of one library on his system. Still i think this is a move in a right direction. At the moment people are basically forced to buy Windows if they want to play a game. They can try to run it on a different OS but this is unsupported by game making companies and most of the time they wont get the same experience when running it on target OS, that is Windows.
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On August 04 2012 01:15 Anonymous_Coward wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 23:03 Greggle wrote: No I will not switch. Why? Because it doesn't even matter anymore. Graphics won't improve significantly anymore. I no longer have any desire to improve my computer's graphical performance. Graphics will definitely go on improving. We're seeing a slowdown over the last few years as the console hardware is so outdated, and developers don't want to lose sales by sticking to PC. Give it another 3-4 years and the games we're playing now will look dated. we have a slow down due to consoles being the main area where games are sold outside of that pc games industry largely relies on server side games for 2 reasons freemium games people tend to spend more money on avg then if they priced it at a set amount and you also have a harder time pirating a game that is partly on a server somewhere. Consoles hold us back becuase developers don't really use new technology they stick to what the consoles can support and more pc ports are half assed.
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United States7481 Posts
I don't know if you just read a kotaku article or some shit about what Pardo actually said but it was "not awesome for Blizzard either." I'd hardly call that a full agreement with the statement that w8 is a "catastrophe for everyone in the PC space."
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Pardo did not echo Newell's statements as implied. And the only reason W8 is a 'catastrophe' is because the planned MS Store is a threat to Steam's current almost-monopoly on Windows digital distribution of games.
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I can hardly imagine, that buying games through Steam/Battle.net will not be possible in Windows 8!? If that's the case Microsoft should be boycotted - i would be pissed as well. The game industry was backing up Microsoft for years now.
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On August 04 2012 05:19 Sanz wrote: I can hardly imagine, that buying games through Steam/Battle.net will not be possible in Windows 8!? If that's the case Microsoft should be boycotted - i would be pissed as well. The game industry was backing up Microsoft for years now.
how should that work? a game is just an application, and microsoft sure as hell cannot block arbitrary application installation unless it's through their store (think iphone without jailbreak), that would be their death sentence. The only game specific thing they could block is the integration like a shortcut in the games folder and the likes, but who cares about that anyways.. other than that, how would you make the operating system tell the difference between a 3d simulating CAD program and a video game? that's not possible.
and buying through something like steam is the same as buying through amazon. they can't block buying either because buying something over the internet is just visiting a bunch of pages, you can't automatically distinguish game sales from other sales.
tldr: you can't block installing or buying games unless you block installing anything or visiting any websites as well. and that's not feasible.
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On August 04 2012 05:19 Sanz wrote: I can hardly imagine, that buying games through Steam/Battle.net will not be possible in Windows 8!? If that's the case Microsoft should be boycotted - i would be pissed as well. The game industry was backing up Microsoft for years now.
If that happens idk what I will do. Steam is more important to me than Windows and buying an Apple is not an option.
edit: guy above me has un-panicked me lol.
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On August 03 2012 03:16 sinii wrote: I can see a big push towards OpenGL and Linux on the horizon. At first that sounds ludicrous however I think not, Windows8 are pushing towards a windows store and xbox live tie-ins to try and take back some of steams revenue, however at the same time Valve are pushing for a linux client.
This would still sound like it wouldn't be enough on it's own after all why would AAA developers produce for OpenGL?
This is the big one, coming soon are the next generation of consoles. Sony's development libraries crippled the Playstaton 3's potential for quite some time, plus Valve and Sony have already demonstrated a working relationship. Combine all these factors together and it seems obvious to me Playstation 4's development will be done using the OpenGL libraries with Sony pushing for home console domination and Valve pushing for a Linux PC gaming revolution.
Nobody thought my theory was interesting?
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Markus "Notch" Persson (creator of Minecraft) is also of the opinion that Windows 8 could end up being a huge step backwards for PC gaming. Their fears are well-founded, because if Microsoft decides to close off the Windows platform so that you can only buy games through them (where they can act as a necessary intermediary and charge a large percentage of the sales price as a commission), then that would pretty much mean the death of Steam and other third-party platforms on Windows 8...
As a Mac user, I like Apple's OS X as my general use OS and my preferred gaming platform; that said, there's a lot of games out there that run on Windows but don't run on OS X, so I have a separate partition of my HDD where I have Windows XP installed exclusively for playing the games that don't run on OS X. I wouldn't mind having to use Linux instead and cutting Windows off altogether, but all of this still greatly depends on whether MS finally decides to screw over its users and third party developers and closes off Windows 8, or if they decide that the backlash and lower adoption of Windows 8 that would result from closing it off outweighs the benefits and therefore choose to keep the platform open.
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United States12181 Posts
On August 04 2012 05:43 Zato-1 wrote:Markus "Notch" Persson (creator of Minecraft) is also of the opinion that Windows 8 could end up being a huge step backwards for PC gaming. Their fears are well-founded, because if Microsoft decides to close off the Windows platform so that you can only buy games through them (where they can act as a necessary intermediary and charge a large percentage of the sales price as a commission), then that would pretty much mean the death of Steam and other third-party platforms on Windows 8... As a Mac user, I like Apple's OS X as my general use OS and my preferred gaming platform; that said, there's a lot of games out there that run on Windows but don't run on OS X, so I have a separate partition of my HDD where I have Windows XP installed exclusively for playing the games that don't run on OS X. I wouldn't mind having to use Linux instead and cutting Windows off altogether, but all of this still greatly depends on whether MS finally decides to screw over its users and third party developers and closes off Windows 8, or if they decide that the backlash and lower adoption of Windows 8 that would result from closing it off outweighs the benefits and therefore choose to keep the platform open.
For WinRT titles. I don't think anything has been announced for desktop applications.
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On August 04 2012 05:43 Zato-1 wrote:Markus "Notch" Persson (creator of Minecraft) is also of the opinion that Windows 8 could end up being a huge step backwards for PC gaming. Their fears are well-founded, because if Microsoft decides to close off the Windows platform so that you can only buy games through them (where they can act as a necessary intermediary and charge a large percentage of the sales price as a commission), then that would pretty much mean the death of Steam and other third-party platforms on Windows 8... As a Mac user, I like Apple's OS X as my general use OS and my preferred gaming platform; that said, there's a lot of games out there that run on Windows but don't run on OS X, so I have a separate partition of my HDD where I have Windows XP installed exclusively for playing the games that don't run on OS X. I wouldn't mind having to use Linux instead and cutting Windows off altogether, but all of this still greatly depends on whether MS finally decides to screw over its users and third party developers and closes off Windows 8, or if they decide that the backlash and lower adoption of Windows 8 that would result from closing it off outweighs the benefits and therefore choose to keep the platform open. It's just speculation people are shitting themselves over crap that has never been announced. It is likely that windows RT will probably be like the ipad and have a closed store not that it matters much because it will be ARM edition most things would have to be made for it. But regular windows 8 being a closed system entirely is full of shit, the store yes will be regulated by windows and they will get a cut of sales, so what valve you do the same exact thing, if you pay you can get in their distro network what's new.
People hear windows store and auto assume closed system unable to do anything but interact though their store, yet you can still install programs like you can with any windows in the windows 8 developer preview. So really it's a matter if windows 8 RT is a locked down or not, and does it really matter for a tablet only os, that is ARM based.
They are going off an idea that has never been verified or even hinted by Microsoft. It's basically speculation that barrack obama is a secret Kenyan, pretty baseless and full of crap.
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On August 04 2012 05:48 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 05:43 Zato-1 wrote:Markus "Notch" Persson (creator of Minecraft) is also of the opinion that Windows 8 could end up being a huge step backwards for PC gaming. Their fears are well-founded, because if Microsoft decides to close off the Windows platform so that you can only buy games through them (where they can act as a necessary intermediary and charge a large percentage of the sales price as a commission), then that would pretty much mean the death of Steam and other third-party platforms on Windows 8... As a Mac user, I like Apple's OS X as my general use OS and my preferred gaming platform; that said, there's a lot of games out there that run on Windows but don't run on OS X, so I have a separate partition of my HDD where I have Windows XP installed exclusively for playing the games that don't run on OS X. I wouldn't mind having to use Linux instead and cutting Windows off altogether, but all of this still greatly depends on whether MS finally decides to screw over its users and third party developers and closes off Windows 8, or if they decide that the backlash and lower adoption of Windows 8 that would result from closing it off outweighs the benefits and therefore choose to keep the platform open. It's just speculation people are shitting themselves over crap that has never been announced. It is likely that windows RT will probably be like the ipad and have a closed store not that it matters much because it will be ARM edition most things would have to be made for it. But regular windows 8 being a closed system entirely is full of shit. People hear windows store and auto assume closed system unable to do anything but interact though their store, yet you can still install programs like you can with any windows in the windows 8 developer preview. So really it's a matter if windows 8 RT is a locked down or not, and does it really matter for a tablet only os.
I think the whole thing revolves around metro and the fear that it will one day completely replace the desktop which is the obvious design direction from the current jumbled Windows8 mess. At that point a steam Windows client would be required to pay Microsoft 30% of sales. A fully metro Windows would be very closed and terrible for PC gaming.
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On August 04 2012 05:52 sinii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 05:48 semantics wrote:On August 04 2012 05:43 Zato-1 wrote:Markus "Notch" Persson (creator of Minecraft) is also of the opinion that Windows 8 could end up being a huge step backwards for PC gaming. Their fears are well-founded, because if Microsoft decides to close off the Windows platform so that you can only buy games through them (where they can act as a necessary intermediary and charge a large percentage of the sales price as a commission), then that would pretty much mean the death of Steam and other third-party platforms on Windows 8... As a Mac user, I like Apple's OS X as my general use OS and my preferred gaming platform; that said, there's a lot of games out there that run on Windows but don't run on OS X, so I have a separate partition of my HDD where I have Windows XP installed exclusively for playing the games that don't run on OS X. I wouldn't mind having to use Linux instead and cutting Windows off altogether, but all of this still greatly depends on whether MS finally decides to screw over its users and third party developers and closes off Windows 8, or if they decide that the backlash and lower adoption of Windows 8 that would result from closing it off outweighs the benefits and therefore choose to keep the platform open. It's just speculation people are shitting themselves over crap that has never been announced. It is likely that windows RT will probably be like the ipad and have a closed store not that it matters much because it will be ARM edition most things would have to be made for it. But regular windows 8 being a closed system entirely is full of shit. People hear windows store and auto assume closed system unable to do anything but interact though their store, yet you can still install programs like you can with any windows in the windows 8 developer preview. So really it's a matter if windows 8 RT is a locked down or not, and does it really matter for a tablet only os. I think the whole thing revolves around metro and the fear that it will one day completely replace the desktop which is the obvious design direction from the current jumbled Windows8 mess. At that point a steam Windows client would be required to pay Microsoft 30% of sales. A fully metro Windows would be very closed and terrible for PC gaming. What does metro have to do with steam paying microsoft a cut of sales, metro has nothing to do with the store. And again in the developer preview you can install programs onto windows 8 circumventing the store, so again there is no indication that it would be compeltely closed off outside of using the store for all interactions. Windows RT the tablet version may be different but that doesn't matter to most people unless you're going to buy a surface. Metro interface is just that it's a UI but the base functions and interactions of the OS is the same as windows 7 it just looks a little different.
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Blizzard has no moral to criticize anyone's design choices since they fucked pretty much anything they could in SC2.
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I love linux, but you don't have a choice over which desktop OS you want to use. Linux just doesn't have the driver support of windows, and developers prefer directx which is microsoft only. The preference for directx over opengl isn't just from the monopoly of 1 platform over the other, directx is much easier to use from a developer stand point, even if it is slower. It's a complete api that plugs into all the major input devices, keyboard, mice, game controllers, and audio controls, opengl is video only and I don't think there's a framework that comes close to the ease of development that directx currently enjoys.
Still though, I'd love to see an open platform wrest control back from microsoft and to a lesser extent apple. If valve and blizzard are serious about linux support and can get amd and nvidia to start supporting linux as well I'd easily make the jump from linux being a small partition on one of my harddrives on an old retired machine to my main platform.
EDIT: I have to address this major issue that is occupying this thread. The windows store model preventing anyone else from selling on the platform. For starters, microsoft is not apple, they'd be shooting themselves in the head if they did this. Secondly, they don't have to implement this to have complete desktop control. They've already done this with directx and driver manufacturers. You have to make your games specifically for windows if you want them to run with the latest toys.
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http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-start-menu.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/04/designing-the-start-screen.aspx metro isn't a bad interface it's pretty nice in some aspects, if you habitually only used pinned programs on a task bar or icons to start and use programs it's a nice thing as it adds features to those interactions. Metro just removes the start button and menu because their developers found only a few number of people used it regularly, everyone else rarely touched the start button except to shut down the machine or start up a program they haven't touched in a long time. People fear change but don't bother to actually try it out before they freak out. The sad part is this happens with every windows, people called XP i think a tonka toy becuase of the new look of the start bar, people disliked vista and 7's task bar and clear view because again change, even though pinning is pretty dope (after all pinning is just an expansion on quick launch icons, and metro is an extension of pinning). Frankly i could never use anything that didn't have windows 7's snap feature as it's more intuitive then hitting windows key + left/right.
Yes somethings are different but different doesn't auto mean end of the world...
On August 04 2012 06:06 EAGER-beaver wrote: I love linux, but you don't have a choice over which desktop OS you want to use. Linux just doesn't have the driver support of windows, and developers prefer directx which is microsoft only. The preference for directx over opengl isn't just from the monopoly of 1 platform over the other, directx is much easier to use from a developer stand point, even if it is slower. It's a complete api that plugs into all the major input devices, keyboard, mice, game controllers, and audio controls, opengl is video only and I don't think there's a framework that comes close to the ease of development that directx currently enjoys.
Still though, I'd love to see an open platform wrest control back from microsoft and to a lesser extent apple. If valve and blizzard are serious about linux support and can get amd and nvidia to start supporting linux as well I'd easily make the jump from linux being a small partition on one of my harddrives on an old retired machine to my main platform. DirectX isn't slower
Opengl 4.2 and DirectX 11 are very similar
Opengl 4.2 vs directX 9c are very different which is what valve's comparison would be like.
Plus linux is very bare bones to begin with which can help with the benchmark, linux is more like a race car striped down to what you needed, while windows is a luxury car gets you from point a to b in style and comfort. If you loaded up the features of windows into linux you'd probably see very similar opengl numbers.
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On August 03 2012 19:26 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 16:28 Medrea wrote:On August 03 2012 16:19 Nikon wrote:On August 03 2012 16:06 konadora wrote: all we have to do is stay on windows 7 :p You mean on Windows XP At this moment, there's not a single thing that runs on Windows 7 that can't run on WinXP for me, while the reverse is unfortunately true Hmmm? Like what? Win 7 has full compatibility modes with Win XP. My mouse (MX510) drivers don't work on Windows 7. I've had the mouse for nine years now, and only repairs I've done on it is change the feet and open it up to clean it once. Works good, would work better with drivers. It bothers me a bit, as the mouse movements with drivers are really really smooth, but not enough to revert back to XP. A bit of a side-problem from newer technology is that my motherboard doesn't have a PS/2 port any more, and I'm stuck on USB. Other than that, everything I use runs just fine on either OS.
You can install unsigned drivers in Windows 7 if you know how.
I was waiting for someone to bring this up.
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On August 03 2012 01:25 IntoTheWow wrote: The moment games switch to Linux, I'm switching as well.
Never used Linux, but heard a lot of good about it. I'm switching also. I have no intention to buy Win8 anyway.
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On August 04 2012 06:06 semantics wrote:metro isn't a bad interface it's pretty nice in some aspects, if you habitually only used pinned programs on a task bar or icons to start and use programs it's a nice thing as it adds features to those interactions. Metro just removes the start button and menu because their developers found only a few number of people used it regularly, everyone else rarely touched the start button except to shut down the machine or start up a program they haven't touched in a long time. People fear change but don't bother to actually try it out before they freak out. The sad part is this happens with every windows, people called XP i think a tonka toy becuase of the new look of the start bar, people disliked vista and 7's task bar and clear view because again change, even though pinning is pretty dope (after all pinning is just an expansion on quick launch icons, and metro is an extension of pinning). Frankly i could never use anything that didn't have windows 7's snap feature as it's more intuitive then hitting windows key + left/right. Yes somethings are different but different doesn't auto mean end of the world... Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 06:06 EAGER-beaver wrote: I love linux, but you don't have a choice over which desktop OS you want to use. Linux just doesn't have the driver support of windows, and developers prefer directx which is microsoft only. The preference for directx over opengl isn't just from the monopoly of 1 platform over the other, directx is much easier to use from a developer stand point, even if it is slower. It's a complete api that plugs into all the major input devices, keyboard, mice, game controllers, and audio controls, opengl is video only and I don't think there's a framework that comes close to the ease of development that directx currently enjoys.
Still though, I'd love to see an open platform wrest control back from microsoft and to a lesser extent apple. If valve and blizzard are serious about linux support and can get amd and nvidia to start supporting linux as well I'd easily make the jump from linux being a small partition on one of my harddrives on an old retired machine to my main platform. DirectX isn't slower Opengl 4.2 and DirectX 11 are very similar Opengl 4.2 vs directX 9c are very different which is what valve's comparison would be like. Plus linux is very bare bones to begin with which can help with the benchmark, linux is more like a race car striped down to what you needed, while windows is a luxury car gets you from point a to b in style and comfort. If you loaded up the features of windows into linux you'd probably see very similar opengl numbers.
I never said directx was slower then opengl, I said even if, as in the difference in raw speed is a minor point compared to the developer point of view of working with the different API's. Opengl 4.2 and directx are very similar, opengl and directx9 are different? What? How so? I'm just mentioning the key differences between the two, regardless of version, for a developer. If you open up an opengl library vs a directx one, directx is a complete package to everything on your PC, opengl is strictly video.
And linux isn't like a race car, it's more like a choo-choo train
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