Ground Vikings - Page 6
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
the viking is designed to be an antiair unit, and it s the best in the game if you would buff viking ground you would also need to buff gravity spell of phoenix and the corrupter | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 23 2012 00:48 Piousflea wrote: With all the attention on Tanks and Hellions and Firebattlehellions, you'd think that people would think about one of the other Terran units that has been around for a long time - Ground Vikings. Ground Vikings are weak. REALLY weak. They weren't always so bad. IIRC at one point in WoL Beta they had 1 Armor and 14 damage and could compete toe-to-toe vs stalkers and hydralisks. Thing is, a usable Ground Viking would actually fill a lot of the holes in HotS Mech. What do I mean by usable? I think it would be a viable unit with just two changes: - Vikings may use either Mech or Air upgrades, whichever is highest. (this is the big one) - Attack changed from 12 damage to 7x2 damage. This is only a 17% buff against normal units, and not a buff against high-Armor units, but is a 40% buff vs immortal shields. Why would a usable Ground Viking fit well with Mech play? 1) You'll have a starport anyways, now that medivacs heal your firebattlehellions. 2) Vikings cover the main weakness of mech which is Air. 3) Vikings are amazingly supply-efficient. At 150/75/2 they have a 112.5:1 cost:supply ratio which is higher than anything except spellcasters and Banelings (150:1). HotS mech uses a lot of hellions (50:1) and widow mines (50:1) so you really need a supply-efficient unit to make up the difference. 4) Vikings are surprisingly good against Archons. Throw a ball of ground vikings into a ball of archons in Unit Tester. The viking's fast attack busts through shields while its bulky size and Mechanical nature makes the archon's attack highly ineffective. With these changes, Ground Vikings would still be fairly weak and not a unit you'd really want to mass, but you could sprinkle a few into that mid-range crescent in between your hellions and tanks. They would do wonders against Archon and Immortal shields, while making you much less nervous about an air switch. I'm not the first person to think of something similar: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6606901403 http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6606432476 http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572270602 Just a small correction to the OP: Ground Vikings do actually beat speed/range hydralisks in the even supply battle - at least in the 16 vs 16 battle I did twice right now (creep to simulate the speed). And well, I think there could be some small corrections done to ground viking, but to be honest, there are other units that need a lot of love first, before anyone should consider changing a unit that is being heavily used in nearly every TvT, ZvT and PvT. | ||
Dephy
Lithuania163 Posts
On September 23 2012 15:54 Big J wrote: Just a small correction to the OP: Ground Vikings do actually beat speed/range hydralisks in the even supply battle - at least in the 16 vs 16 battle I did twice right now (creep to simulate the speed). And well, I think there could be some small corrections done to ground viking, but to be honest, there are other units that need a lot of love first, before anyone should consider changing a unit that is being heavily used in nearly every TvT, ZvT and PvT. grounded viking cost 150-75 cant hit air, moves 2.25. Its one of most cost inefficent units in the game. It doesnt mean anything, that it can beat hidra who cost less per food and now actually in hots got speed buff, can burrow and hit air. | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 23 2012 17:50 Dephy wrote: grounded viking cost 150-75 cant hit air, moves 2.25. Its one of most cost inefficent units in the game. It doesnt mean anything, that it can beat hidra who cost less per food and now actually in hots got speed buff, can burrow and hit air. I really don't want to discuss hydra vs viking. I just wanted to point out the mistake that the OP made, as he clearly says that vikings cannot go toe-to-toe with hydras in a battle. | ||
Carnate
United States62 Posts
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XenoX101
Australia729 Posts
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Tenebra
Germany19 Posts
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CodeskyE
United States777 Posts
On September 23 2012 15:54 Big J wrote: Just a small correction to the OP: Ground Vikings do actually beat speed/range hydralisks in the even supply battle - at least in the 16 vs 16 battle I did twice right now (creep to simulate the speed). And well, I think there could be some small corrections done to ground viking, but to be honest, there are other units that need a lot of love first, before anyone should consider changing a unit that is being heavily used in nearly every TvT, ZvT and PvT. good catch. i didn't know about this myself. | ||
Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Think their dps or the way the upgrades work is not the main isue though, its pretty decent with 12 and not that bad against immortals with only 2 damage wasted against the shield.Upgrades on ground mode give less then +10% damage each, are nullified by a counter armour upgrade and therefor not essential for vikings imo. Biggest problem i find with landing vikings is that they almost die instantly,landing vikings turns out to be a bad idea 99% of the times you try it.not sure why lol. Their hp is a bit low for their cost, only 125 hp and they count as armourded. This is not so much a problem against zerg but against toss with immortal and to a lesser extend stalker, or terran with tanks and marauder its quiet a disadvantage. Am not sure about blizzards intention with the ground mode btw,maybe their ground mode is only meant as a harras option behind undefended mineral lines, and not so much as an option to use in army battles. To make them more viable on ground overall they should get more hp in my opinnion and maybe change them to non armoured in ground version. | ||
Dephy
Lithuania163 Posts
On September 23 2012 21:04 Rassy wrote: Hmm viking on asault mode definatly is one of the worst ground units around i have to agree. Think their dps is not the main isue though, its pretty decent with 12 and not that bad against immortals with only 2 damage wasted against the shield. Biggest problem i find with landing vikings is that they almost die instantly,landing vikings turns out to be a bad idea 99% of the times you try it.not sure why lol. Their hp is a bit low for their cost, only 125 hp and they count as armourded. This is not so much a problem against zerg but against toss with immortal and to a lesser extend stalker its quiet a disadvantage. To make them viable on ground they should get more hp in my opinnion and maybe change them to non armoured in ground version. either buffing there ground armor or changing armor type or both would be great. Also move speed is also very terrible, they should have something along the line of stalker movespeed on the ground. | ||
v3chr0
United States856 Posts
I think endurance/fortitude rather than damage would help it more. Adding damage wouldn't seem to fix anything with it, it can be used to kill immortal shields and plenty of other stuff where its at now. I don't think it should be too powerful of a ground unit considering its proficient in AA and is extremely versatile, but it should definitely be useful as a ground unit; not a waste, last resort, or bm land. | ||
MrSandman
Australia188 Posts
I think it's right for you to have to choose, do I take a utility unit like the viking or do I specialise but spend more resources/supply on multiple units. These decisions are what make terran interesting, instead of just having one unit that does everything. Mind you, blizzard might just buff ground vikings for the sake of it XD | ||
CikaZombi
Serbia630 Posts
Even now, you always upgrade ship weapons because of colossi, so you actually have upgrades for them and that's not the issue. They beat stalkers handily and do ok vs archons. Their only flaw is their lack of hit points which is understandable since everything else is superb. I don't think they require a buff in this department. | ||
Crawdad
614 Posts
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MoonCricket
222 Posts
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baeric
Germany649 Posts
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
On September 23 2012 23:13 MoonCricket wrote: I've mentioned it several times before, but giving Viking Assault Mode a greater role in Mech in order to defend vs Chargelots would be preferable to Battle Hellions as things are. Just letting Viking Assault Mode benefit from Vehicle Upgrades is already a step in the right direction, but they could do the same thing with Assault Mode as they did with Battle Hellion Mode and just give the Assault Mode a +50% HP buff. This would be ridiculous, Assualt mode already beats stalkers and hydra, if you add 50% hp buff when landed they will beat literally everything except immortals and infestors. | ||
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