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Best post of the thread IMO.
Down with VeraLynn!
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On September 25 2012 09:14 Ansinjunger wrote: So when will the community shun leveling services? I realize that's the "lesser" evil here, but are we happy simply drawing a line in the sand saying, "you can deceive yourselves and de-legitimize the ladder, but not for money?" It would be nice if the ladder was a more reliable resource, and of course, it would be nice if Blizzard could do more about cheating.
I feel that if power-leveling is not shunned, it will create tempting situations leading to what happened here, and I consider power-leveling dishonest enough on its own anyway.
On the other hand, I have only faraway hopes that esports will grow and become any more of a "shining example" than any other mainstream sports, and I doubt that ancient sports history (pre '70s, let's say) was perfectly free of cheating and the like.
As to the starving or underpaid pros and semi-pros, I don't see that changing just because you wish it, or because teams and businesses stop giving preferential treatment to girls. For one, professional sports are very top-heavy, and I expect esports to grow into similar top-heaviness--not that you won't see relative improvements at lower levels, hopefully including a more livable salary.
More importantly, women theoretically bring additional attention and growth to the scene, and will ultimately benefit you even if they take away opportunity in the short-term. And what's also important to these businesses is their growth, not yours. I'll be happy if they can at least grow ethically without any Ministry of Win dramas rewarded in kittens.
There is nothing that should be banned about power leveling, it's a consenting transaction between two people. There is something wrong with selling coaching on false premises, because the consenting transaction is based upon falsehoods, ergo, it's fraud.
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On September 25 2012 09:11 thurst0n wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 05:49 StateofReverie wrote: Wow. They went through quite the effort to make a profit off of esports through unethical services...Unfortunately not everything added up which doesn't make the perfect crime
I think it's more dissapointing that the person who was caught doing this is in fact a female. I think this supports the negative generalization/stereotype that women are inferior to men when it comes to esports. I am really cheering for the growth of the female community though and a matter like this certainly does NOT help matters I had to post because this is just wrong. I can understand if you feel a certain way but seriously your logical brain should override this. The gender of the person in question means nothing. The only relevance her gender has is that it gave her more natural exposure. 1) she's a girl, guys dominate the scene and are typically interested in girls. 2)she's a girl, did I say that already? But her being a girl and doing this is NOT a statement about how women are in anyway inferior when it comes to esports. Women simply don't care and don't put in the time (this is a generalization) but it's true as there are far fewer females in our community. You act as though you understand that these are stereotypes and they are wrong, yet you seem to act as though this is evidence of the stereotypes. Perhaps I misread your meaning. Until you said that this doesn't help the female community, I never once thought about that. It never crossed my mind. The only way it effects the female community in my eyes, is that there is now one less of them. But this doesn't hurt my views of the rest of the females in the community, the same way that DeathAngels actions do not effect my view of every male in the community. Just had to get that out. If you don't make it about gender then it's not about gender. This is about fraud. My question to everyone is, will anyone try to take legal action against this fraud? She clearly misrepresented her qualifications for services that she was selling. That's fraud and against the law. The tournaments cannot be happy if they paid her winnings when she didn't rightfully win. That's cheating/fraud and it's against the law. I'm no lawyer but these seem like common sense. I'm sure that it's just small claims court, not sure how it works in europe/romania. I would take this dog and pony show to court on principal if the jurisdiction was there. Bonus Question: Who is the dog and who is the pony? Death angel/vera?? Bonus Question #2: How can we get google to return "Did you mean DeathAngel" when you do a search for veralynnsc2
And here I was thinking that it is common sense that if you treat the different equally you're being prejudiced. It is fun to see how people don't understand social movements, welp, I mean people who never had to deal with prejudice don't.
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
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On September 25 2012 09:40 iHirO wrote:
Best shop evar.
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As the only other currently active female Irish SC2 player that I am aware of, and therefore the head of and spokesperson of the Irish Female SC2 Community, I would like to say shame on you, VeraLynn. I'd call grudge match if I could be sure it was her I'd be playing, lol.
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What's sad here is that a decent unknown player has to pretend to be a female in order to achieve any notoriety. Anyways, I think that deathangel shouldn't be banned from anything, but he should have to keep the Vixen or Veralynn ID. It would be hilarious.
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On September 25 2012 09:31 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 09:22 Klipsys wrote:On September 25 2012 09:19 Zoraque wrote: I doubt it, pretty sure she obtained more than $1000 usd due to her coaching etc. People only bought coaching from her because of her results (which happened to be a fraud) How much was she charging for her coaching? Anyone who bought time with her should try and get their money back via however they paid. I think 6pool gaming should try and compensate victims with something, since she was representing them while conducing this fraud Someone mentioned they bought one of her 12 lesson packages for $100, but I don't know the rates. At SixPoolGaming we don't offer coaching services; we offer training videos, tutorials and the like for a low monthly subscription fee (and you get access to every coach's videos for this fee). The only thing SPG contributed for her coaching credibility was their name, which I doubt affected the decisions of her students (I could be wrong?). Even if someone subscribed to SPG for Vera's videos specifically I am sure the rest of the content on the site is adequate for them. Vera did however advertise her coaching through a listing on z33k.com.
I see, thanks for clearing that up.
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Honestly stuff like this makes me embarrassed to be a female gamer. What VeraLynn did is unnecessary, unacceptable, and inexcusable. What I don't understand is why she chose this path to make a name in the sc2 scene. There are plenty of other ways to be a community figure as a girl that allow you to keep your dignity in tact, and earn you legitimate respect from the community. Rachel Quirico, Anna Prosser, and Soe Gschwind-Penski are great examples of women who became part of the community without lying or taking their clothes off.
As much as this whole situation upsets me, I hope that VeraLynn still has the option to participate in the sc2 scenen as a casual player/spectator without all the drama. Simply because she made an extremely bad decision does not mean that she should be ostracized from the sc2 community. I hope that everyone will keep that in mind when you post.
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And Sjow fistpumps into the air.
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This is just a testament to how good DesRow is.
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sjow :D:D:D (pinoy dance)
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Oh my. This is wonderful. :D
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I've been Veralynn's fan for 4+ months now. I tuned in to her streams 3 or 4 times per week when I could, and made her a Liquipedia page since I thought she had great potential to be ranked in the top 10 females in the world. I was skeptical of this accusation but once I noticed that she deleted her twitchtv channel, her twitter, and archive, dissapeared without an apology/defense, I was sure she was a fraud. Although, I think everyone deserves second chances if they come clean.
What was the point of this? Did she plan this at all? Firstly, you could not get on to a team or go to any LAN tournaments. You could do online tournaments but those max at $250 per week, which you can't survive on. You could also try to get some low tier sponsors. You could also try to build a twitch fan base but eventually people would become suspicious about not joining a team/going to a LAN. I see no incentives to do this at all.
This turns out to be a typical witch hunt but I really hope sponsors don't pull away from z33k.tv because of one bad apple - their entire list of casters were great.
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Never knew anything about veralynn, never saw her stream, never saw her coach so I can't really comment on this. Good job for figuring it out though, but it seems like anyone who watched her stream regularly should have been able to do so themselves.
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This is pretty surprising, I have talked to her and have casted for z33ktv and would have never known about any of this :|
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If this is true, then it's really sad and puts bad light to every woman, who ever tried to get good at the game. A sad day, when someone has to pretend to be another person in order to get exposure, as well as sad person, who allows something like that to happen, just to get 5 minutes of her fame... I really cheered for VeraLynn too.
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On September 25 2012 09:53 Freezd wrote: I've been Veralynn's fan for 4+ months now. I tuned in to her streams 3 or 4 times per week when I could, and made her a Liquipedia page since I thought she had great potential to be ranked in the top 10 females in the world. I was skeptical of this accusation but once I noticed that she deleted her twitchtv channel, her twitter, and archive, dissapeared without an apology/defense, I was sure she was a fraud. Although, I think everyone deserves second chances if they come clean.
What was the point of this? Did she plan this at all? Firstly, you could not get on to a team or go to any LAN tournaments. You could do online tournaments but those max at $250 per week, which you can't survive on. You could also try to get some low tier sponsors. You could also try to build a twitch fan base but eventually people would become suspicious about not joining a team/going to a LAN. I see no incentives to do this at all.
This turns out to be a typical witch hunt but I really hope sponsors don't pull away from z33k.tv because of one bad apple - their entire list of casters were great. You mean someone who had another user boost them to GM to gain popularity, exploit that by streaming/sessions with those paying for help and gaining success overall in the community doesn't deserve to be witch hunted because...? money isn't the only factor, the overall good of e-sports/community/starcraft was tarnished.
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