Yes, I realize this is pretty newby thing to ask, but bear with me. This thread (http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=30851) said this:
"Dragoon Dancing: Executing the commands of attack-move-attack in such a way as to be moving during the cooldowns without reducing the rate of fire. Useful both for killing SCVs and maximizing damage vs. melee units. " (Lots of threads mention it, but do not elaborate on it.)
Is this the best way to dance? I try this, but it seems like I am not doing it as effectively as I see in some replays. Is it perhaps attack, move, stop, attack back in the opponents direction, rinse &repeat? Do you press stop at all? I am wondering if this is the best way to good dance, and if so, what are some of the most effective ways of implementing good goon dancing.
I think there is something critical that I am missing here.
it's attack (a key, target) -> move (right click) -> attack (a key, target)
It doesn't seem as effective on b.net because of the slight delay... it takes time adjusting yourself to it, the same reason why it's harder to micro mutas, just that tiny delay makes a big difference. Try it out on hamachi or on a LAN, it'll be way easier.
The way I do it (although I don't think it's the only one), is to just wait for the goons to attack, then click on move in any direction (either behind a tank, or away from marines/zeals/lings/whatever), and then very soon after that press hold or attack-move anywhere on the screen. Attack click on something if you're targeting tanks or such. It's really easy to do.
The only thing you should be careful is not moving them BEFORE they get to shoot. Wait for them to fire then do it again.
So it's hold/stop/attack, then move, then hold/stop/attack again. You can do whichever you're confortable with, though hold might be easier then targeted attack at first.
In theory, the best way to do it is move, order to attack, move, order to attack. Not attack move command, they take an extra step if you do that - a click on desired unit you want to kill. However, I am lazy, so I just use move-h-move-h. I don't play toss -_-;;
Depending on what you're dancing against, you don't actually have to move all the dragoons. I mean if you watch Reach vs Rock [the 18 dragoon against 24 speedlot thing] Reach only moves the dragoons that are getting stabbed, which lets the rest of them shoot unmolested instead of moving all of them away.
On January 25 2007 20:39 Last Romantic wrote: Depending on what you're dancing against, you don't actually have to move all the dragoons. I mean if you watch Reach vs Rock [the 18 dragoon against 24 speedlot thing] Reach only moves the dragoons that are getting stabbed, which lets the rest of them shoot unmolested instead of moving all of them away.
Was it 18 v 24? I only saw the one where it's like 8 v 6 or something.
And I do move-h-move-h as well. Just gotta get the rhythm down.
On January 25 2007 20:39 Last Romantic wrote: In theory, the best way to do it is move, order to attack, move, order to attack. Not attack move command, they take an extra step if you do that - a click on desired unit you want to kill. However, I am lazy, so I just use move-h-move-h. I don't play toss -_-;;
Depending on what you're dancing against, you don't actually have to move all the dragoons. I mean if you watch Reach vs Rock [the 18 dragoon against 24 speedlot thing] Reach only moves the dragoons that are getting stabbed, which lets the rest of them shoot unmolested instead of moving all of them away.
Rofl, this pic just pwnd this thread. dancing dragoons!
I could be totally wrong, but doesn't some progamers use patrol instead of hold / attack? I remember seeing someone from skt1 (coach?) saying patrol has the fastest responce in game, might just be effective on LAN though?
On January 25 2007 22:11 Shiva_Chandra wrote: I could be totally wrong, but doesn't some progamers use patrol instead of hold / attack? I remember seeing someone from skt1 (coach?) saying patrol has the fastest responce in game, might just be effective on LAN though?
There was a thread on this. Dragoons are units for which patrol is less efficient than attack orders, because it has an attack animation? or something like that. So units like vulture which just shoot things without having to display chambers opening and stuff work better with patrol, but those without instant firing work better with attack order.
edit: also, with patrol, you can't select your target. that's why people don't use patrol with mutalisks - it may be slightly faster, but since you can't select target, it is worse.
selecting target is fastest of all i believe. patrol is maybe the fastest without having to select a target. vulture patrol and muta patrol is not the same thing. anyway i don't know much, but unless it's avoidable by getting the rhythm perfectly right, not using stop between selections if not hold is what freezes your goons. i dunno though my goons usually shoot out of sync with each other when i try to dance. i must be doing something wrong. nice picture of dancing goons.
What is also strange is that LAN (even if you host a LAN game and play with the computer) has a low latency delay by default. This means that on LAN you will still have different rythm for dancing than singleplayer, no matter what the actual latency is. It is nearly neglible with goons, but makes a gross adaptation problem with zealots.
How I do it: when goons shoot, press move away from your enemy, then use A hotkey and try to hit his unit with it. If you miss, you will still recieve attack-move order with shooting, but it will be delayed and unfocused. There are basically two things to watch out for here:
1) If at the moment of the attack some goons are out of range, they will have to move first. It's a bad thing because they usually go farther than their actual range (their range with upgrade is 6, and they will wander in 4 or something) which means wasting time and going into the range of units you don't want to shoot you (fending off a gundam). So, keep your eyes on range.
2) If you press move during the attack animation (there are some broken frames, if you time it into them), goons will freeze, their attack animation will be reset (meaning longer cooldown) and they will stop responding to move command. So, don't press move too fast and be always ready to press Stop when you micro goons. Always.
Another nice option is to use hold command intstead of attack (attack-move). That way, your out-ranged goons won't wander into enemy fire. So, if your primary concern is keeping out of enemy range, use hold (killing gundam). If your primary concern is doing damage while minimizing yours (goons vs zealots, lings or unmicroed hydras), use attack.
On January 25 2007 22:11 Shiva_Chandra wrote: I could be totally wrong, but doesn't some progamers use patrol instead of hold / attack? I remember seeing someone from skt1 (coach?) saying patrol has the fastest responce in game, might just be effective on LAN though?
patrol is only good for some units, like vultures and scouts i think...those are the only units that patrol works better than attack...
toss player here, dragoons being the only unit i have ever been able to micro somewhat successful.
don't use stop or patrol. just attack move, target, wait until they fired, move, wait for cooldown, then in time attack move again, rinse&repeat. takes some time to get it right, but not nearly as hard to learn as muta control or M&M micro.
On January 25 2007 22:11 Shiva_Chandra wrote: I could be totally wrong, but doesn\'t some progamers use patrol instead of hold / attack? I remember seeing someone from skt1 (coach?) saying patrol has the fastest responce in game, might just be effective on LAN though?
Your Dragoons lock up - meaning they don\'t have any actions ... much like when you send a worker to construct a building (they\'re not ordered to move, stop, attack, patrol, or hold). They just stand there, not attacking, until you mash S a couple of times to get them moving.
So, to dance simply:
XXX DD XXX DD C XXX DD C C XXX DD
X = angry melee enemies coming towards you D = your pro dancing dragoons C = attack move to any of those points
On January 25 2007 22:11 Shiva_Chandra wrote: I could be totally wrong, but doesn\'t some progamers use patrol instead of hold / attack? I remember seeing someone from skt1 (coach?) saying patrol has the fastest responce in game, might just be effective on LAN though?
patrol is only good for some units, like vultures and scouts i think...those are the only units that patrol works better than attack...
I used to think Mutas were part of the list, only to lose countless Mutas to M&M =_=