HotS UI Update - Page 11
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On October 19 2012 23:11 paralleluniverse wrote: LoL, DotA2, WC3 and WoW don't seem to have any problems with designing good online systems. What did SC2 get? A massive devolution, B.net 0.2, with absolutely nothing new (other than Facebook integration). NOT ONE SINGLE new idea, except Facebook. The most basic features gutted, which have only slowly been re-added back in. Blizzard's track record on the new B.net is abysmal. It's only recently that B.net and B.net changes in HotS are finally moving in the right direction. Is it because Greg Canessa finally got fired? A couple things: 1) Greg Canessa did not get fired. He's now the head of mobile platform development for Activision. 2) Everything that [F_]aths said is exactly right. However, Battle.net 2.0 definitely had some significant project management problems. The decision to design and implement what we ended up getting for Battle.net 2.0 for SC2 probably came later than it should have. The original software team for the unannounced MMO project got pulled off that around the end of 2009 to go into immediate crunch time to implement the first version of Battle.net 2.0. They threw what released with the game together in a very short period of time, starting from basically zero. Because of this accelerated schedule, a lot of desired features got cut or delayed to be able to arrive at a stable UI that allowed people to play the game. Then, of course, while work on the UI has certainly proceeded, since the game was released, the Battle.net 2.0 team was drawn down again, since maintaining a full-size team is something they prefer to do with a new project. Because of this, the bigger changes (including under-the-hood changes that we really don't see much of, some of which have been patched into WoL by now) have had to wait until HOTS development ramped up. There are obviously some disconnects with the community about the desirability of certain specific features, but many of the things people have suggested or asked for have probably just not been possible due to the staffing of the team. None of my comments are excuses for them making choices that aren't best for the UI or the community feel of the game, but a little understanding of how things came to be the way they are can help put it in perspective, I think. 3) LoL and DOTA2 are certainly driving Blizzard's feature choices as much as anything. WC3's UI is really nothing to be particularly proud of -- it has some nice features but some things people remember warmly may not have been as actually successful at the time. WoW has a much, much larger UI team than any other Blizzard project. | ||
Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On October 20 2012 02:57 Lysenko wrote: A couple things: 1) Greg Canessa did not get fired. He's now the head of mobile platform development for Activision. 2) Everything that [F_]aths said is exactly right. However, Battle.net 2.0 definitely had some significant project management problems. The decision to design and implement what we ended up getting for Battle.net 2.0 for SC2 probably came later than it should have. The original software team for the unannounced MMO project got pulled off that around the end of 2009 to go into immediate crunch time to implement the first version of Battle.net 2.0. They threw what released with the game together in a very short period of time, starting from basically zero. Because of this accelerated schedule, a lot of desired features got cut or delayed to be able to arrive at a stable UI that allowed people to play the game. Then, of course, while work on the UI has certainly proceeded, since the game was released, the Battle.net 2.0 team was drawn down again, since maintaining a full-size team is something they prefer to do with a new project. Because of this, the bigger changes (including under-the-hood changes that we really don't see much of, some of which have been patched into WoL by now) have had to wait until HOTS development ramped up. There are obviously some disconnects with the community about the desirability of certain specific features, but many of the things people have suggested or asked for have probably just not been possible due to the staffing of the team. None of my comments are excuses for them making choices that aren't best for the UI or the community feel of the game, but a little understanding of how things came to be the way they are can help put it in perspective, I think. 3) LoL and DOTA2 are certainly driving Blizzard's feature choices as much as anything. WC3's UI is really nothing to be particularly proud of -- it has some nice features but some things people remember warmly may not have been as actually successful at the time. WoW has a much, much larger UI team than any other Blizzard project. O_o, do you work for blizzard, sure sounds like it.... did you interview me! lol | ||
WeedRa
Germany815 Posts
On October 19 2012 10:36 Ethoex wrote: I hope when Bliz meets with the players like they said on SOTG even better changes happen! you should listen again, Mr. Bitter said something different! | ||
SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On October 20 2012 02:57 Lysenko wrote: A couple things: 1) Greg Canessa did not get fired. He's now the head of mobile platform development for Activision. 2) Everything that [F_]aths said is exactly right. However, Battle.net 2.0 definitely had some significant project management problems. The decision to design and implement what we ended up getting for Battle.net 2.0 for SC2 probably came later than it should have. The original software team for the unannounced MMO project got pulled off that around the end of 2009 to go into immediate crunch time to implement the first version of Battle.net 2.0. They threw what released with the game together in a very short period of time, starting from basically zero. Because of this accelerated schedule, a lot of desired features got cut or delayed to be able to arrive at a stable UI that allowed people to play the game. Then, of course, while work on the UI has certainly proceeded, since the game was released, the Battle.net 2.0 team was drawn down again, since maintaining a full-size team is something they prefer to do with a new project. Because of this, the bigger changes (including under-the-hood changes that we really don't see much of, some of which have been patched into WoL by now) have had to wait until HOTS development ramped up. There are obviously some disconnects with the community about the desirability of certain specific features, but many of the things people have suggested or asked for have probably just not been possible due to the staffing of the team. None of my comments are excuses for them making choices that aren't best for the UI or the community feel of the game, but a little understanding of how things came to be the way they are can help put it in perspective, I think. 3) LoL and DOTA2 are certainly driving Blizzard's feature choices as much as anything. WC3's UI is really nothing to be particularly proud of -- it has some nice features but some things people remember warmly may not have been as actually successful at the time. WoW has a much, much larger UI team than any other Blizzard project. Point 2 is very interesting. Do you have the source(s)? | ||
Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:57 SarcasmMonster wrote: Point 2 is very interesting. Do you have the source(s)? The fact of the unannounced MMO team moving over to work on Battle.net 2.0 in 2009 is described here, albeit with a positive spin: http://slouken.blogspot.com/2011/04/how-i-left-blizzard.html (After that post, the author of that blog moved on to 38 Studios, which famously flamed out due to financial issues over the summer, and now works at Valve Software.) Very important note: I have known Sam personally for fifteen years but I have NOT NOT NOT spoken to him about any confidential information related to his time at Blizzard, ever, not once. I have also not spoken to him about this particular issue. I have just read his blog. The fact that features were planned and then significantly delayed is a matter of looking at the Battle.net 2.0 described at the Blizzcon 2009 Battle.net session and comparing it against the schedule of its actual release, plus similarly comparing blue posts on the Blizzard forums saying they've planned or worked on certain features that either have not yet arrived or arrived much later than expected. Worth noting is that in a software development scenario like this, the most common reason a planned feature is ever delayed is that there isn't enough time to get the work done at a given staffing level. My comments about the relationship of those delays to staffing and schedule are an inference, but well-informed by my own experience working in related fields. Regarding the relationship of pace of UI updates to Blizzard's product cycle, it's clear historically and in the case of SC2 that they have a pattern of continuing to support their released games with patches and updates over time. As the Blizzard blog post linked in the OP points out, however, the biggest SC2 UI patch so far came out of HOTS development. This is more confirmation that rate of feature development tracks with staffing. (link here, for convenience) http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7634957/Heart_of_the_Swarm_UI_Update-10_18_2012 So, while I presented that as a narrative, it's a healthy mixture of my own inference with what has come out of various Blizzard people's mouths in public forums. I may be wrong about some of the minor details, and my opinion that the project had management issues is entirely my own (not an opinion stated by anyone I know at Blizzard) but I'm pretty confident about the overall picture that I presented being fairly accurate. | ||
Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:34 Kazeyonoma wrote: O_o, do you work for blizzard, sure sounds like it.... did you interview me! lol No sir, if I worked for Blizzard there's no way in hell I would be posting on the internet about it. That's one rule they take very, very, very seriously. | ||
SCRaven
United States17 Posts
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
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G00BAK
Canada51 Posts
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BlazinHot
United States8 Posts
There needs to be a clock on the UI at all times just like WoL and other Blizzard games. Its a feature I really like, and would hate to lose. I would also like to see unlockable backgrounds for the main page to go along with some achievements. Not 4 or 5, more like 30 to 40+. And finally, use Tricia Helfer (Kerrigan) as a voiceover for anything and everything possible; I will never get tired of her. | ||
eviltomahawk
United States11132 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
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Cabinet Sanchez
Australia1097 Posts
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MadProbe
United States269 Posts
On October 20 2012 05:05 Lysenko wrote: No sir, if I worked for Blizzard there's no way in hell I would be posting on the internet about it. That's one rule they take very, very, very seriously. wow thank you for sharing this info. i wish blizz was more open about the whole process. then i wouldnt have spent 2+ years thinking their devs are complete idiots. its just the managers :p. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 20 2012 11:37 MadProbe wrote: wow thank you for sharing this info. i wish blizz was more open about the whole process. then i wouldnt have spent 2+ years thinking their devs are complete idiots. its just the managers :p. That is a double edge sword, sadly. The more open they are, the more people demand information and take information and distort it. The community it not entirely rational on some subjects and completely irrational on others. The most recent comment on the Blizzard forums shows this: Rational response I like Blizzard when they are listening to us, but not responding to every little thing. Shouting at the rain is not productive. All the stuff about the UI is super interesting. I know people want changes quickly, but the SC2 was released when there was Twitch.tv was still Justin.tv. A lot has changed in 2 years and Blizzard couldn't have known what their UI would need to look like in 2 years. Hell, Dota 2 likely wasn't even in development when SC2 was released. | ||
MarcusWC
Canada55 Posts
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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Whatson
United States5354 Posts
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