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Clarity is also in europe... wtf sleeping from 1PM to 6? O.o
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@sylver djo's in korea I think?
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On November 05 2012 01:39 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@DebearsHere's just some stuff off the top of my head. @DjoThis is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote: Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. - Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear. - He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said. On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it. Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote: Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory. In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it. On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote: @ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it. All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo. As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo. Has he done anything specifically since these posts to make you think he's scum? Also, anything to make you think he's town?
@Debears
I liked the cases on Clarity from both of you, and I can see him being potential scum (especially after his active-lurky comment on my underlined djo clause). He's been pretty tame since then. Only thing I don't like is his "Hey, get us 3 up there, because I've got nothing to hide" mentality, but that's just me.
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@Sylver
I'm still waiting for your case on me. You too Alsn
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On November 05 2012 02:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:39 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 01:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@DebearsHere's just some stuff off the top of my head. @DjoThis is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote: Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. - Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear. - He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said. On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it. Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote: Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory. In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it. On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote: @ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it. All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo. As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo. Has he done anything specifically since these posts to make you think he's scum? Also, anything to make you think he's town? @DebearsI liked the cases on Clarity from both of you, and I can see him being potential scum (especially after his active-lurky comment on my underlined djo clause). He's been pretty tame since then. Only thing I don't like is his "Hey, get us 3 up there, because I've got nothing to hide" mentality, but that's just me.
Is that mentality necessarily scum? I can easily see a townie saying that too. It's a null tell
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It's funny how I popped in a little more than 8 hours after I went to bed. >_>
I'm wondering if the schedules people are maintaining are with ulterior motive, but I think it's not something that we can read into. People have real lives.
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@ sylverfyre
Yeah, I live and work in South Korea so you can check that it is indeed 2 am in the banner of this thread.
Was it a general statement ? I thought it was a reference at you and debears going into OMGUS mode just before your post.
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On November 05 2012 02:08 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 02:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 05 2012 01:39 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 01:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@DebearsHere's just some stuff off the top of my head. @DjoThis is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote: Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. - Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear. - He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said. On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it. Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote: @ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote: Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. 1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory. In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it. On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote: @ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it. All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo. As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo. Has he done anything specifically since these posts to make you think he's scum? Also, anything to make you think he's town? @DebearsI liked the cases on Clarity from both of you, and I can see him being potential scum (especially after his active-lurky comment on my underlined djo clause). He's been pretty tame since then. Only thing I don't like is his "Hey, get us 3 up there, because I've got nothing to hide" mentality, but that's just me. Is that mentality necessarily scum? I can easily see a townie saying that too. It's a null tell
Yeah, I see it as null too. It's just odd as hell.
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On November 05 2012 02:08 sylverfyre wrote: It's funny how I popped in a little more than 8 hours after I went to bed. >_>
I'm wondering if the schedules people are maintaining are with ulterior motive, but I think it's not something that we can read into. People have real lives.
@ sylvefyre
Yeah, people have real lives. But you can notice in my scum game that I was using the different timezones at my advantage. I deliberately posted when people where not around and I didn't stay up at night so much because I didn't want to interact.
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Hey guys -
I'm currently reading from my last post made to the end of the thread after having just got up, but I'm going to go pick up breakfast at a restaurant, so I won't actually be posting for another hour or so. (Sorry for not getting on last night, I started playing a wii game and realized how much of an insane time-sink mafia has been on my weekend, I just went straight to bed rather than catch up.)
Is the deadline now 4PM pacific time due to daylight savings coming into effect today? Or is it unchanged at 5PM? Sorry for the stupid question lol.
Honestly, from where I'm at right now (a quick check reveals it's page 31), Djo does not look as scummy as he did before, I think his contributions look fairly strong. Da0ud's visibility also makes me feel better about him. I haven't seen CC yet, but I wasn't around either, so it doesn't change my opinion on him. Clarity looks significantly scummier than I had originally read, I really like Djo's case on him. When he asked each person pertinent[is this the right word] questions about their behavior, I thought it was a quite solid post - but as Djo pointed out, a lot of those points... weren't really followed up on. If there wasn't anything drawn from them, why bother posting them? (I haven't read the last several pages, so maybe I'll quickly learn :x)
Sylver - your answer to me earlier makes sense, assuming you're (or were) feeling that debears was town.
I will try to be here for the remainder of the day once I get back from breakfast.
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On November 05 2012 01:41 debears wrote: @Sylver
can you repost that so I know what exactly you are adding to that? I'm sorry, repost what?
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I am going to put my comments into the quote itself, I will use green for added effect.
On November 04 2012 23:54 debears wrote:Hey guys, I believe Clarity is scumhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16787463First, look at Djo's case about Clarity's - non committal attitude - blending in - lack of scumhunting I would like to add two things to that. 1) Scumhunting MethodClarity's scumhunting method for day 1 appears to be looking for people who don't answer questions. Why is this a scum favored strategy? It's an easy way to scumhunt. You don't have to read for changes in behavior/motivations. Also, if everyone answers the questions, then you can say "oh, idk who is scum cuz all my questions were answered" My scumhunting method is not "looking for people who don't answer questions". You are taking something I said I believe is scummy and turning into saying it's the only thing I think is scummy.Example of what I mean Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 17:08 Clarity_nl wrote: All the answers I got were sufficient. Hell, your answer had an entire case on sylver attached to it. Maybe I should be pushing people harder. I feel like there are plenty of people already doing that though.
My top scrumreads at the time were you and Alsn, Alsn wasn't around at all and you were already being pushed by others. I was just reading, and as I said I will end up posting at least a solid case today, you can tell me if my information gathering has been weak at that point. 2) Contradiction to his scumhunting viewsShow nested quote +On November 04 2012 17:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Top 3 choices in my eyes are Debears, Sylver and you.
As for people who haven't answered my questions: Alsn, Cheese, Sylver. In this post, clarity names 3 top scumreads. He has no reasoning. Not only that he acknowledges that 3 people haven't answered his questions. Now let's look at what he said about people who don't answer his questions. Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 16:54 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 16:48 Djodref wrote: @ Clarity
A few people never answered your questions from the list. Why do you not push them as well ? Because I felt it would go along nicely with any cases I would make. If you "miss" a question asked to you that's super scummy because town reads and re-reads a lot. Scum just sorta play.. Because they don't need extra information[. and this Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote: @Cheese >:l The no newb cards comment seems specifically aimed at me. Not really a fan. I'm not wholly sure why he dropped his argument against debears so quickly - pointing out previous meta, etc, and then it just absolutely falls off the face of the planet. Why? (I disagree with this statement, by the way:
I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is. The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town. It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town. My reads at this point in time: Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing. @ ObzyDo you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you. _ Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX. @ RadWhy the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend? _ Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said On November 03 2012 10:04 debears wrote: If I'm not here for lynch, its irl conflicts 99% of the time. Don't pull an Alsn @ AlsnWhy the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point? _ Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town. @ CheeseYou did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both. _ Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages. @ Djodref If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else? _ Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again. @ DebearsWhat's your ready on Obzy? _ Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games. @ SylverfireYou've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you? _ So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible. Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws. Do no avoid answering the questions I addressed to you, it would be a very scummy thing to do. It's a contradiction, and a contradiction in a mafia oriented way. His scumhunting method is a way to avoid actually having to scumhunt, then he doesn't even use it when he gives his top scumreads I did not have cases ready. Yes I was on and checking mafia but I was also working. Djo specifically asked me who my current scumreads were, and who hadn't answered my questions yet. I answered both. Again you put an emphasis on people not answering my questions, when that is only part of it. The same way your "meta" read on me (which is 1 post, that I made about you, that was accurate.) is not the entirety of your case. I had a strong read on you. I do not have a strong read in this game yet
3) Avoiding Making CasesThroughout d1, Clarity has repeatedly avoided making cases, stating they'll come sometime in the last 24 hours. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote: My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak. My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help. Why is clarity having such a hard time making cases? As town, you would be naturally suspicious of everyone. Yet, Clarity is having trouble. Who tend to have trouble making cases? Scum, since they know that their targets for lynch are town. I do not have trouble making cases. Djo (again him... curious) asked me directly if I was going to make cases. I said yes, I will be making at least one solid cases before this daycycle ends. Instead I'm here having to type up a defense, and Djo is going "Well I guess you just don't want me to defend myself."4) Taking the BackseatAlso, notice how he wants to take a backseat this game. Refer to the example quote before. "Other people are already pushing enough as it is". That is not a townie mindset at all. Yes it is. Unlike some people I prefer not to clutter up the thread. When djo is being pushed by cheese, I don't have to push Djo. In fact, it actively hurts because now Djo has to answer to two people and our posts can get lost. Another reason people shouldn't is because they can get screwed over. What if Cheese is scum? You start pressuring Djo, and Cheese dissapears, exactly like he wanted. Now you're doing his job for him and running the town in circles.The meta - Clarity's scumhunting attitude is way different than his last game as town. Here's an example post Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 06:43 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 01:22 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 26 2012 01:20 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 01:15 Dandel Ion wrote: As I get Ninja'd, a wild Clarity appears. Will be active from now on, just didn't have it in the back of my head to check TL a lot. Now that the game has started I will basically be checking as much as possible. Well, I'm sure you have more thoughts than just a FoS on debears for "advocating chaos" So, how about you present those for now. I think "advocating chaos" is actually a good argument on its own, however.... + Show Spoiler [Gathered quotes] +On October 25 2012 10:26 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 10:08 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 25 2012 10:02 Inigmaticalism wrote:For lurking I think it seems even more of an issue in Newbie games than regular games because too many lurkers results in mafia wins most of the time in the Newbie games I looked at. That said, if we get any confirmed mafia I'll always vote confirmed mafias over suspicious lurkers. Btw Im a noob ... That goes without saying. Having a confirmed scum can be hard though.. And is next to impossible day 1 (since no possible DT checks) unless there is a serious slip. That is why policy lynches day 1 can end up being a necessity. That said, I'm going to sleep. See you in a few hours. What are you saying here exactly? Policy lynches are by no means a necessity. If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show. Why do you lack the confidence of catching scum d1?FOS dandelBtw guys officially postjng from phone for rest of night. Tell me if something gets messes up and u can't read On October 25 2012 11:39 debears wrote: I might be. But, consider this. How did that slip from kush come about? Darthpunks heavy pressure.....duh. policy lynches, on the other hand, are usually caused by passivity or something like a claim. Besides, its fairly easy to discuss policy lynches. Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me? On October 25 2012 13:15 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 12:00 Rad wrote:On October 25 2012 11:39 debears wrote: I might be. But, consider this. How did that slip from kush come about? Darthpunks heavy pressure.....duh. policy lynches, on the other hand, are usually caused by passivity or something like a claim. Besides, its fairly easy to discuss policy lynches. Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me? You're being especially confusing right now, at least for me. Dan basically said sure, if we have a confirmed mafia d1 (which he claims would be difficult without a major slip), lynch, otherwise it might be necessary to policy lynch. This seems reasonable. Your statement, however, is extremely confusing. Without knowing your previous game in depth, none of what I quoted above means anything. Can you please explain more briefly/clearly "where your confidence got you"? Also, what does your previous confidence have to do with any potential scenario for a d1 lynch? Ok this phone posting iw hard. Forgive th disorganization. Confidence has everything to do with d1. If everyone is confident and pushes cases, then scum will be forced to do the same. That is the key. We need to force scumcto contribute early My confidence led to me making a game winning case on arguably the most townie looking player (who was the last scum) On October 25 2012 13:18 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 12:53 Djodref wrote:On October 25 2012 10:30 debears wrote:On October 25 2012 09:52 Djodref wrote:On October 25 2012 09:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @ "Uncle" Dan
I am of the opinion that inactive players are a good candidate for lynching. There is too much mystery involved with someone whose only contribution to the thread is nonexistent.
In regards to the noobie-card policy: I have to say that claiming inexperience is a terrible defense against any accusation. Djo in the last newbie game made several references to him being a noob (and being town), and it only served to make him seem suspicious to other players.
You are sure taking lurker policy lynch seriously. Would you explain us at which point suspicious players become better lynch candidates than inactive players ? Djo, why did you suddenly drop this after cheesecake responded? Also, why did you interpret his post as taking lurker policy "so seriously" when he was respondjng to a question? @debearsThe part I've bolded in Cheese's post was a comment about dandel's post you have picked on. It was not related to the part where he was answering your questions. He didn't mention any other good candidates for lynching than inactive players so I thought he wanted to lynch based on lurker policy lynch today. But he has clarified his position since then. Very well djo. I found the wording of seriously strong for your post. Can you clarify why you have a sudden 180 on confidence on day 1 from your last game as town? On October 25 2012 13:24 debears wrote: Rad,
I understand what you're saying. However, you are misinterpretjng my words. I'm not saying go on a tunneling spree. I'm saying have the confidence to make a case on anyone and pursue that case until you find that person town or someone else more scummy On October 25 2012 13:33 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 13:27 Rad wrote:On October 25 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote: I've realized that in my last newbie game. Not being confident led me to write wish-washy posts and it is not good for general town mentality. Also I like DarthPunk style with his early heavy pressure. Pretty newbie scums can slip very easy, kush or not kush.
Plus I had some difficulties in my last mafia games to post properly when people where directly pressure me. Why even think about artificial confidence though? Why is the concept of confidence even something to be considered beyond "if you're confident, push your case!" That's all confidence is good for. Artificial confidence does nothing. I get the point of "try to be more confident in your reads" or something to that extent, but I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker. We should do whatever we think is best at that point, not necessarily 1 thing or the other. Why are you so focused on lynching a lurker over a scumread right now imo lurker lynches are last resorts to scumreads. If a lurker has a scumread, that's a bonus. Why do you keep pressing this "artificial confidence" thing when newbie games are notorious for lurking (usually caused by fear/lack of confidence) and lack of confidence? On October 25 2012 13:45 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 13:27 Rad wrote:On October 25 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote: I've realized that in my last newbie game. Not being confident led me to write wish-washy posts and it is not good for general town mentality. Also I like DarthPunk style with his early heavy pressure. Pretty newbie scums can slip very easy, kush or not kush.
Plus I had some difficulties in my last mafia games to post properly when people where directly pressure me. Why even think about artificial confidence though? Why is the concept of confidence even something to be considered beyond "if you're confident, push your case!" That's all confidence is good for. Artificial confidence does nothing. I ge t the point of "try to be more confident in your reads" or something to that extent, but I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker. We should do whatever we think is best at that point, not necessarily 1 thing or the other. That is the statement I'm talking about. Am i missing something here? Can someone help me out? You don't understand having confidence to pusb d1 scum reads over lurkers?
What do scum want? Easy lynchs. Who are easy lynches? Lurkers.FOS Rad On October 25 2012 13:48 debears wrote: Actually, that's a scumslip
##Vote Rad "If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show. Why do you lack the confidence of catching scum d1?" First mention of the term confident"Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me?" Second, trying to enforce that being confident is a good thing"My confidence led to me making a game winning case on arguably the most townie looking player (who was the last scum)" Same story"Can you clarify why you have a sudden 180 on confidence on day 1 from your last game as town?" Someone "lacks confidence", better ask insinuating questions"have the confidence to make a case on anyone and pursue that case until you find that person town or someone else more scummy" Yeah, confidence!"newbie games are notorious for lurking (usually caused by fear/lack of confidence) and lack of confidence?" Guys, you just don't get it, be confident!"You don't understand having confidence to pusb d1 scum reads over lurkers? What do scum want? Easy lynchs. Who are easy lynches? Lurkers. Actually, that's a scumslip ##Vote Rad" Using backwards logic, followed by casting his vote, which he later withdrew without explaining It's easy to retort: What do townies want? Active town. What doesn't contribute to an active town? Lurkers.
We never see him use the word confident again after he casts his voteOn October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote: Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?
I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.
##Unvote No explanation, nothing, just withdraws his vote that he so casually cast. The whole confidence thing is weird to me. He has a thematic history of posting in this thread, as if it's planned out. If he planned it out as scum, his actions make sense. Trying to appeal to your emotions, trying to turn the word confidence into his own little buzzword. If he planned it out as town, actually trying to help the town think critically and relentless towards possible scum, why would he vote for Rad, who has made decent points and questioned people? Let me ask everyone this: Who is more likely to plan out how they will behave day 1, town or scum? Look at how he's willing to actually analyze actions over the whole day 1 last game, yet this game he has done NOTHING of the sort. He hasn't tunneled anyone either, like he tunneled me last game. That, combine with his "answer questions or you're scummy" approach is very different play from his town self. Again, you make it sound like I was jumping at everyones throats. I urge everyone read my XXIX filter, it's only like 8-10 posts, and exactly 1 case, against debears. The "answer my questions or you're scummy" is exactly how I play. Please explain how it is different. I explained my logic for this earlier: Town read, re-read and re-re-read because they have to. They don't miss questions adressed to them, or at least it's not likely. Scum on the other hand just plays. They don't have to read things more than once, they already have most of the facts.
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##unvote da0ud I'm glad he's picked up activity.
If anyone has more questions please ask them to me rather than just following the bandwagon. If my answers are insufficient please tell me why and I will address it.
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going to bed guys !
I'm eager to see the vote count when I wake up
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Yeah go to bed ~6 hours before lynchtime. Which is 6:30 your time.
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one more question clarity, why didn't you discuss with me about my "scuminess" last time.
By the way, the lynch is in 7.5 hours which makes it at 10 am for me. It is 2.30am now and I am working tomorrow so I have the right to sleep
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On November 05 2012 02:33 Djodref wrote:one more question clarity, why didn't you discuss with me about my "scuminess" last time. By the way, the lynch is in 7.5 hours which makes it at 10 am for me. It is 2.30am now and I am working tomorrow so I have the right to sleep
Wait, where are you living currently? I didn't want to discuss your scumminess with you because I'd rather have an entire case up, rather than tell you then and give you time to prepare and possible post stuff to contradict my arguements before my case goes up.
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@Clarity
On November 04 2012 16:22 Clarity_nl wrote: /snip All the answers to the questions I asked can be used later, and I urge everyone to look at who answered their question and who hasn't. /snip
You make 2 statements here.
1. The answers to your questions can be used later (I agree) 2. You urge everyone to look at who answered their questions and who hasn't (implying not answering is scummy)
Considering you're going to be making a case on djo, can you explain the importance of your #2 suggestion? Seems like if you truly thought it was an important thing to note, you'd be more interested in alsn and cheese over djo and debears? With your statements, you spread suspicion across 5 different people and then center in on someone who doesn't apply to your second point.
On November 04 2012 17:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Top 3 choices in my eyes are Debears, Sylver and you.
As for people who haven't answered my questions: Alsn, Cheese, Sylver.
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@Clarity
On November 05 2012 02:11 Djodref wrote: @ sylverfyre
Yeah, I live and work in South Korea so you can check that it is indeed 2 am in the banner of this thread.
Was it a general statement ? I thought it was a reference at you and debears going into OMGUS mode just before your post.
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So it means that you have confirmation bias against me. You don't want to give me a chance to defend myself, you have already made up your mind and you want to see me dead. It means that you are now 100% convinced that I am scum (in the case where you are town) which is stupid because I am not scum and townies should always keep their mind open or that you are scum yourself.
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