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dunno about you zergs but YOU SHOULD BE PRAYING ZvZ gets to be muta dominated in hots and you should pray blizzard keeps going in this direction
TRUST ME, zvz was a horrible matchup since release especially since roachwars were figured out.
BW style zvz of muta vs muta was much more enjoyable, and lategame with 50mutas and possible ultra/nydus blitz attacks after both zergs have 4bases should be incredibly entertaining compared to roachwars of the present
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On December 18 2012 09:35 severetim wrote: dunno about you zergs but YOU SHOULD BE PRAYING ZvZ gets to be muta dominated in hots and you should pray blizzard keeps going in this direction
TRUST ME, zvz was a horrible matchup since release especially since roachwars were figured out.
BW style zvz of muta vs muta was much more enjoyable, and lategame with 50mutas and possible ultra/nydus blitz attacks after both zergs have 4bases should be incredibly entertaining compared to roachwars of the present
It's going to be a lot less enjoyable considering there is no scourge...
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On December 18 2012 09:46 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 09:35 severetim wrote: dunno about you zergs but YOU SHOULD BE PRAYING ZvZ gets to be muta dominated in hots and you should pray blizzard keeps going in this direction
TRUST ME, zvz was a horrible matchup since release especially since roachwars were figured out.
BW style zvz of muta vs muta was much more enjoyable, and lategame with 50mutas and possible ultra/nydus blitz attacks after both zergs have 4bases should be incredibly entertaining compared to roachwars of the present It's going to be a lot less enjoyable considering there is no scourge...
nydus/ultralisk blitz attacks lategame supported by lings with a few banes due to less viability of broodlords due to mass muta already in play will make it much more exciting for viewers
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The thing that shuts down muta vs the other races is when they tech to and invest in air AOE, you see a handful of thors, a widow mine, or some templar chillin out in the enemy base and you know you should stop making mutas as you can't harass without losing the whole bunch. Infestors used to do that.
If fungal doesn't reliably land on mutas anymore I agree there should be some zerg unit that gets an area buff against air. Like corruptors getting a Valkyrie style attack. But do zerg even need aoe vs other races air units?
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On December 18 2012 10:32 zergrushkekeke wrote: The thing that shuts down muta vs the other races is when they tech to and invest in air AOE, you see a handful of thors, a widow mine, or some templar chillin out in the enemy base and you know you should stop making mutas as you can't harass without losing the whole bunch. Infestors used to do that.
If fungal doesn't reliably land on mutas anymore I agree there should be some zerg unit that gets an area buff against air. Like corruptors getting a Valkyrie style attack. But do zerg even need aoe vs other races air units?
or change nothing and allow us to experience entertaining zvz
a muta zvz is ultimately a ultralisk/crackling zvz. i cant wait. i hope blizzard doesnt screw this up and listen to whiners. MUTAS MUTAS MUTAS MUTAS
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Russian Federation81 Posts
I don't really understand which part of muta vs muta people find exciting or fun. Well maybe from a pure spectator point of view, watching fast flying unit battles is not so bad as playing this composition, but come on, don't be so selfish. Muta v muta requires zero tactical skill, whoever walled off better/spent less gas on banelings/got his gasses earlier wins and there's very little the player who is behind can do about it. This is not fun to play. Roach wars on the other hand were, at least to me. Maybe not as fast/exciting to watch, but from players' perspective, you had to pick where and how to engage, you had to always be aware of enemy army movement to not get caught up in a disadvantageous concave or by a power fungal somewhere down the ramp. I just don't see how mutacloud vs mutacloud can be interesting or fun for a player. Remember no one stopped you from doing ling runby/counter while fighting with your main roach army, so you can't really say that mutaling opens up some new unseen ways of aggression either.
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On December 18 2012 09:15 Fliparoni wrote: People were complaining in WoL about how boring roach/infestor vs roach/infestor was and were wishing for things like muta vs muta. Now that we have that, people are complaining again. It's a MIRROR match up people. You're gonna have same unit vs same unit battles no matter what the meta is gonna be.
There is a difference between every few games and 100% of games. Think about WoL TvT, mech or bio, both are viable and can play against each other. Just having two options takes a game from 1 to 3 different outcomes, making it a lot more interesting.
Also playing muta v muta there are very few ways to outplay your opponent and it mostly relies on your opponent making a mistake rather than you playing well.
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Corruptors should do a small amount of air AOE. Nothing crazy, but enough to be able to drive back Mutas. I doubt this would really affect that much more, other than maybe making the corruptors slightly better against Vikings.
Random idea, who knows if it would be good.
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And now you understand how Protoss feels.
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On December 18 2012 10:46 severetim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 10:32 zergrushkekeke wrote: The thing that shuts down muta vs the other races is when they tech to and invest in air AOE, you see a handful of thors, a widow mine, or some templar chillin out in the enemy base and you know you should stop making mutas as you can't harass without losing the whole bunch. Infestors used to do that.
If fungal doesn't reliably land on mutas anymore I agree there should be some zerg unit that gets an area buff against air. Like corruptors getting a Valkyrie style attack. But do zerg even need aoe vs other races air units? or change nothing and allow us to experience entertaining zvz a muta zvz is ultimately a ultralisk/crackling zvz. i cant wait. i hope blizzard doesnt screw this up and listen to whiners. MUTAS MUTAS MUTAS MUTAS I would agree 99.99%, but muta EVERY game is also boring. Now that infestors are somewhat able to shut down mass muta, it leaves other zvz options viable, creating more veriety, but not an infestor battle instead. Even if we went back to roach wars, we would see splitting, dodging, pronged attacks, and lots of cool stuff. I think its perfect where it is.
And muta into ultras is just so epic. I actually did this today, and it was amazing.
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I think a good solution is buffing hydra dmg vs air.
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Add flying banelings?
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I liked only muta more, but now the matchup is much more complex. It's not just going infestor is viable. You can do it different ways and there are other things, that are not muta, that you can do against infestor. So I guess it's good from this point of view.
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People who think that ZvZ is boring to watch right now have not watched a lot of BW...
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On December 20 2012 07:20 Thieving Magpie wrote: People who think that ZvZ is boring to watch right now have not watched a lot of BW...
It was more exciting in BW then sc2 zvz. With the way how dominant infestors are (they are most dominant again the recent patch made them stronger then WoL infestors IMO).
Also have you seen the bl/corr/infestor deathballs coming up in zvz? That's starting to become more and more standard T_T.
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Mass queen holds vs Mutas pretty well, I've been experimenting with different openings revolving around this, especially in conjunction with rushing for Hive. Like, a 12-13min ultra timing attack, with mass queens.
At high-diamond right now in HOTS but i dont play much. was High Masters in WoL
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On December 20 2012 11:14 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:20 Thieving Magpie wrote: People who think that ZvZ is boring to watch right now have not watched a lot of BW... It was more exciting in BW then sc2 zvz. With the way how dominant infestors are (they are most dominant again the recent patch made them stronger then WoL infestors IMO). Also have you seen the bl/corr/infestor deathballs coming up in zvz? That's starting to become more and more standard T_T.
There are boring matchups in zvz, but the variety makes up for it.
Lingbling wars, roach waves, infestors, mutas, ultras, broodfestors, etc...
vs
MutaLingScourge... all day everyday.
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