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On March 27 2013 02:56 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age. Any idea how much time and effort young kids that turn into successful athletes put into sports? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. Your attitude is exactly why foreigners suck in comparison. They're trying to finish school, start playing basketball at 16-18 and then make the NBA lol This kind of mentality pretty much proves that foreigners don't see e-sports as a legitimate career, and only something you do for a few years and then go back to "real post-gaming life", where the koreans see it as any other sport. That is exaclty why we get dominated, just like we should. Wow some people lol Playing professionally != playing. There's a big difference between a 14 year old Westerner playing a lot in his or her own time and a 14 year old Korean pro playing 10 hours a day as a part of a Kespa team. In order to make it into the NBA, you have to go through at least a decade where your practice regimen is limited by regulations. The NCAA has STRICT regulations which specify how long someone can practice while they are in school. Seriously, does anyone actually follow actual sports and how people progress from high school to college to the pros? Those 14 year olds don't even live in the team house dude. They go to the team house to play after school. They are not the grinding b-teamers. Isn't BaBy pretty much the only guy being a full time progamer at that age anyway?
And stop being so close minded, western sports is not only NCAA and NBA, or sports in the USA for that matter. It's only NBA and NFL that works this way.
EDIT: I guess Sea was pretty young too for being full time progamer.
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On March 27 2013 02:50 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. Here comes the 'they own us in Starcraft, but we own them in life'... Personally, I think NA teens choosing to become gangsters, druggies, delinquents, teen moms, etc. is a bigger problem than Korean teens choosing to become pro-gamers. NA teens don't exactly have a better rate of becoming productive members of society.
You just missed the entire point of what I was saying. If anyone ever wants to see any sort of parity between the foreign and Korean scene, then there will have to be differences in the approach on both sides of the coin. Foreign teams will have to adapt stricter training regimens with coaches and team houses. Koreans will have to drop the practice of getting their adult progamers from the ranks of underage progamers who are the practice slaves on a team.
I know everyone likes to say "sacrifice more" or "practice more," but it's completely unreasonable to ask a Westerner to drop out of high school on the off chance that he or she might actually have a progaming career. We don't do that in actual sports, and we shouldn't do that in esports.
The bottom line is that it will be extremely hard for a Westerner who goes pro after high school will have a hard time catching a Korean who went pro at 13 or 14 with all other variables equal.
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On March 27 2013 02:57 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age Wow some people lol All the professional sports leagues in the US have rules against players joining their league without finishing highschool. The NFL requires players to finish 3 years of college. Athleates can practice sports when they are minors and compete in minor leagues, but not for the major, nation teams. i think thats just a difference of developed scene (pro sports) vs developing scene (esports). you can compare it to young adults wanting to act or sing, they too go through hardships where the (labor abuse?)lines are much more feint. gymnasts, figure skaters, etc. i think it all varies on the people you, as an athlete, deal with. a lot of mistreatment and whatnot are the result of bad (individual)management and not the industry.
Almost all of the children who become dedicated in gymnastic, music, figure skating and other disciplines do so under the supervision of their parents and are not employed by anyone. They don’t work for an cooperate entity or other group, but compete in events that are normally directed at non-commercial tournaments/events.
The Kespa teams are not the parents of the B-teamers. There is a very clear line between competing in figure skating and being the practice partner for a Kespa team’s star player.
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On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote: In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career.
I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career.
"In many ways" and you name one of the only ways i can imagine right now, lol!
Seriously dude, we have a similar progression with guys playing soccer and dropping out of school because of it. If they can't break through they will go back and just start where they left off, with the time "wasted". And now i ask you if time is wasted if you pursue your dream and have fun doing so.
And does anyone watch soccer matches of guys who currently study? Just because they don't interrupt their educational path for their passion? No, nobody gives a shit about that. It's about quality, it's about the team being close to you, not about anything else.
Edit: Pretty funny how the thread derailed. Stop thinking the one way of living you think is right is the actual right way to do so for everyone.
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On March 27 2013 01:30 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:49 ragz_gt wrote:On March 27 2013 00:26 nimdil wrote:On March 26 2013 22:52 Irre wrote:On March 26 2013 21:14 nimdil wrote: While I would like for Proleague and GSTL to merge somehow I honestly hope OSL and GSL will be kept separate and both in starleague format.
I've seen many comments on lack of connection with koreans. Well: people from Germany, Ukraine, Italy, Mexico, France and Russia can communicate in english. However - except for Polt and a bit of MC - koreans don't. Just let them learn english so that we don't need a translator all the time. I don't think Life would become much worse of a player if he would spent 2h/day on learning english. In half a year - however - he will be a lot more marketable outside SK. 'MERICUH. Seriously I don't understand how people are so ignorant and egocentric. How about you take the time to understand some of Korean culture. Would that be too much effort while you are gulping down your 40 oz Mountain Dew and Double Big Mac? How about the fact that top level players are actually capable of putting personality into their style of play. When MKP or Polt or MC or Life or July or Parting or MVP or Nestea or DRG etc etc play, you can actually kind of know who is playing just by the game itself. Try that for anyone but like stephano or Huk in the foreigner scene. They have to either be BM or "entertaining" outside of the game, because they can't entertain well enough through the game itself. When you are some of the best players in the world, the games speak for themselves and people are stunned and excited to see the play. We saw that pretty clearly with MLG ro32 to the ro16 to the finals. I really hope that the best players don't get locked out of weekend events, because that will give me a whole lot less content to watch Don't act like jerk. I avoid made in usa fast food for many years and mountain dew is just meh. I'm not talking that you can't learn anything about a player from his play, I'm saying it would be cool to be able to communicate with players without translators. Yes, we adore korean champions. But it'd would be even better if could just communicate with them directly. How is it that if you look at all pro gamers from around the world, Korean and Chinese are the only one unable to speak english. That's not egocentrism - it'd would be egocentrism if was from UK, Australia or some other english speaking country. I'm not. Translators are necessary but they are not exactly practical. The fact they don't have an alphabet might have something to do with it You mean they don't use latin-based alphabet? Well here is what makes me curious: http://www.ted.com/talks/hyeonseo_lee_my_escape_from_north_korea.htmlWhile I recommend watching it all (as it is pretty touching story), what is actually remotely relevant to my point here is what she says at 6:10: "I decided to risk going to South Korea and I started a new life yet again. Settling down in South Korea was a lot more challenging than I had expected. English was so important in South Korea, so I had to start learning my third language."So how is it that refugee from North Korea recognizes importance of English (in SK!) and learns it, while among dozens of korean progamers there is only Polt and - to a lesser degree - MC? It seems so weird to me.
I believe a decent amount of pro-gamer know it, for instance I'm sure I've heard DRG speak English before, and Crank knows it. Didn't MKP cast with MC at the Millennium cup not too long ago?
But anyway, quite a few know English, they're just not confident in it.
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On March 27 2013 03:02 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:50 Azarkon wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. Here comes the 'they own us in Starcraft, but we own them in life'... Personally, I think NA teens choosing to become gangsters, druggies, delinquents, teen moms, etc. is a bigger problem than Korean teens choosing to become pro-gamers. NA teens don't exactly have a better rate of becoming productive members of society. You just missed the entire point of what I was saying. If anyone ever wants to see any sort of parity between the foreign and Korean scene, then there will have to be differences in the approach on both sides of the coin. Foreign teams will have to adapt stricter training regimens with coaches and team houses. Koreans will have to drop the practice of getting their adult progamers from the ranks of underage progamers who are the practice slaves on a team. I know everyone likes to say "sacrifice more" or "practice more," but it's completely unreasonable to ask a Westerner to drop out of high school on the off chance that he or she might actually have a progaming career. We don't do that in actual sports, and we shouldn't do that in esports. The bottom line is that it will be extremely hard for a Westerner who goes pro after high school will have a hard time catching a Korean who went pro at 13 or 14 with all other variables equal.
sometimes you can't have the cake and eat it too. if a person wants to reach top, they have to practice alot and doing school at the same time wouldnt be enough. its their choice to quit school and go 100% progaming or split the two. its still their choice (if organization requires you to quit school, he can look for another team or not take the job, or take the job). physical sports comparison for age is a little unfair as physical level matters hugely in most sports so until they mature (18+, after school), they're not so useful.
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I promise that this will be good, and nothing but good.
Blizz knows what they're doing.
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On March 27 2013 03:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:57 jinorazi wrote:On March 27 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age Wow some people lol All the professional sports leagues in the US have rules against players joining their league without finishing highschool. The NFL requires players to finish 3 years of college. Athleates can practice sports when they are minors and compete in minor leagues, but not for the major, nation teams. i think thats just a difference of developed scene (pro sports) vs developing scene (esports). you can compare it to young adults wanting to act or sing, they too go through hardships where the (labor abuse?)lines are much more feint. gymnasts, figure skaters, etc. i think it all varies on the people you, as an athlete, deal with. a lot of mistreatment and whatnot are the result of bad (individual)management and not the industry. Almost all of the children who become dedicated in gymnastic, music, figure skating and other disciplines do so under the supervision of their parents and are not employed by anyone. They don’t work for an cooperate entity or other group, but compete in events that are normally directed at non-commercial tournaments/events. The Kespa teams are not the parents of the B-teamers. There is a very clear line between competing in figure skating and being the practice partner for a Kespa team’s star player.
So you think, that when somebody trains for figure skating, he doesnt have a trainer and isn't training? Or what are you trying to say? There are world championships for U15, U17, U19, U21 in every sport basically. Like, how old was Messi when he joined Barcelona training camp? Or other football players, how young are they when they join training camps of clubs like Chelsea, Real, Barca, basically every club in Premier League, Bundesliga, Primera Division, etc...? (And so you don't have to look it up on the internet - it's mostly about 6, sometimes sooner, sometimes later...)
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On March 27 2013 00:49 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:26 nimdil wrote:On March 26 2013 22:52 Irre wrote:On March 26 2013 21:14 nimdil wrote: While I would like for Proleague and GSTL to merge somehow I honestly hope OSL and GSL will be kept separate and both in starleague format.
I've seen many comments on lack of connection with koreans. Well: people from Germany, Ukraine, Italy, Mexico, France and Russia can communicate in english. However - except for Polt and a bit of MC - koreans don't. Just let them learn english so that we don't need a translator all the time. I don't think Life would become much worse of a player if he would spent 2h/day on learning english. In half a year - however - he will be a lot more marketable outside SK. 'MERICUH. Seriously I don't understand how people are so ignorant and egocentric. How about you take the time to understand some of Korean culture. Would that be too much effort while you are gulping down your 40 oz Mountain Dew and Double Big Mac? How about the fact that top level players are actually capable of putting personality into their style of play. When MKP or Polt or MC or Life or July or Parting or MVP or Nestea or DRG etc etc play, you can actually kind of know who is playing just by the game itself. Try that for anyone but like stephano or Huk in the foreigner scene. They have to either be BM or "entertaining" outside of the game, because they can't entertain well enough through the game itself. When you are some of the best players in the world, the games speak for themselves and people are stunned and excited to see the play. We saw that pretty clearly with MLG ro32 to the ro16 to the finals. I really hope that the best players don't get locked out of weekend events, because that will give me a whole lot less content to watch Don't act like jerk. I avoid made in usa fast food for many years and mountain dew is just meh. I'm not talking that you can't learn anything about a player from his play, I'm saying it would be cool to be able to communicate with players without translators. Yes, we adore korean champions. But it'd would be even better if could just communicate with them directly. How is it that if you look at all pro gamers from around the world, Korean and Chinese are the only one unable to speak english. That's not egocentrism - it'd would be egocentrism if was from UK, Australia or some other english speaking country. I'm not. Translators are necessary but they are not exactly practical. The fact they don't have an alphabet might have something to do with it
Koreans do have an alphabet.
Having an alphabet has nothing to do with it.
The poster is simply ignorant; when it comes to pro gamers in Starcraft, Warcraft, etc, the only countries that matter are -
NA countries, where English is the native language Western European countries, which due to EU educational policy, all speak English Eastern European countries, which due to economic conditions, have been promoting English from the end of the Cold War China Korea
China and Korea don't speak English because they are not European / NA. English is the default language in the Western world and in those Eastern European countries where interactions with the Western world are necessary for economic success. Korea and China aren't in the same cultural-economic sphere. The bulk of their people have no cause to ever speak English.
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On March 27 2013 02:59 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age Wow some people lol All the professional sports leagues in the US have rules against players joining their league without finishing highschool. The NFL requires players to finish 3 years of college. Athleates can practice sports when they are minors and compete in minor leagues, but not for the major, nation teams. I'm not condoning dropping out of school, but something has got to give. Top level Athletes are usually awful students that only go to university on huge sports scholarships and being pushed through the system for college profits, it's the sad reality. If you're gonna focus that much on sc2, your studies will quickly fall behind, but we have to stop acting like that's a bad thing if the scene is going to go anywhere but "something you do for a couple of years"
There is a big difference between athletes in general being terrible students versus athletes not having the opportunity to be students. The point of the system is that athletics isn't an 'all-in' scenario where you have to give up a shot at a normal career if you wish to have the opportunity to compete at the highest level.
When you are competing to be the best, you absolutely have to do what everyone else is doing. I'd say a comparison would be to steroids in baseball. During that time period, the level of play was higher and more records were set than ever before. From a 'I only care about skill' perspective, it was a great time. Among players, it was well known that if you wanted to compete, you had to juice up, and all of those players sacrificed their future heath for the chance to be on the highest stage. So why did we ban steroids in baseball-- to ensure that players wouldn't have to actually sacrifice something that everyone agreed upon wasn't something that should be sacrificed.
Similarly in Western sports. We have regulations for the time you can spend practicing in high school and college specifically so that you don't have to sacrifice a chance at a normal post-sports (or any at all in the cases of those who fail) career.
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On March 27 2013 03:13 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:49 ragz_gt wrote:On March 27 2013 00:26 nimdil wrote:On March 26 2013 22:52 Irre wrote:On March 26 2013 21:14 nimdil wrote: While I would like for Proleague and GSTL to merge somehow I honestly hope OSL and GSL will be kept separate and both in starleague format.
I've seen many comments on lack of connection with koreans. Well: people from Germany, Ukraine, Italy, Mexico, France and Russia can communicate in english. However - except for Polt and a bit of MC - koreans don't. Just let them learn english so that we don't need a translator all the time. I don't think Life would become much worse of a player if he would spent 2h/day on learning english. In half a year - however - he will be a lot more marketable outside SK. 'MERICUH. Seriously I don't understand how people are so ignorant and egocentric. How about you take the time to understand some of Korean culture. Would that be too much effort while you are gulping down your 40 oz Mountain Dew and Double Big Mac? How about the fact that top level players are actually capable of putting personality into their style of play. When MKP or Polt or MC or Life or July or Parting or MVP or Nestea or DRG etc etc play, you can actually kind of know who is playing just by the game itself. Try that for anyone but like stephano or Huk in the foreigner scene. They have to either be BM or "entertaining" outside of the game, because they can't entertain well enough through the game itself. When you are some of the best players in the world, the games speak for themselves and people are stunned and excited to see the play. We saw that pretty clearly with MLG ro32 to the ro16 to the finals. I really hope that the best players don't get locked out of weekend events, because that will give me a whole lot less content to watch Don't act like jerk. I avoid made in usa fast food for many years and mountain dew is just meh. I'm not talking that you can't learn anything about a player from his play, I'm saying it would be cool to be able to communicate with players without translators. Yes, we adore korean champions. But it'd would be even better if could just communicate with them directly. How is it that if you look at all pro gamers from around the world, Korean and Chinese are the only one unable to speak english. That's not egocentrism - it'd would be egocentrism if was from UK, Australia or some other english speaking country. I'm not. Translators are necessary but they are not exactly practical. The fact they don't have an alphabet might have something to do with it Koreans do have an alphabet.
It's not Latin though, so sure they can still learn it just fine, but having to learn an Alphabet and a language is harder than learning just a Language.
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On March 27 2013 03:05 Pimpmuckl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote: In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career.
I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. "In many ways" and you name one of the only ways i can imagine right now, lol! Seriously dude, we have a similar progression with guys playing soccer and dropping out of school because of it. If they can't break through they will go back and just start where they left off, with the time "wasted". And now i ask you if time is wasted if you pursue your dream and have fun doing so. And does anyone watch soccer matches of guys who currently study? Just because they don't interrupt their educational path for their passion? No, nobody gives a shit about that. It's about quality, it's about the team being close to you, not about anything else. Edit: Pretty funny how the thread derailed. Stop thinking the one way of living you think is right is the actual right way to do so for everyone.
This is specifically one reason why the United States is behind Europe when it comes to soccer, and many people watch these soccer games. The NCAA soccer championship is on ESPN every year.
Do these people seriously go back to school with 14 year olds where they left off? I was under the impression that the German school system was much more regimented than that. I'm not talking about dropping out of university, I'm talking about dropping out of high school. I have no problem with adults doing what they want to do.
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On March 27 2013 01:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:42 StarStruck wrote:On March 27 2013 01:26 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 01:16 StarStruck wrote:On March 27 2013 01:06 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:30 Ammanas wrote:On March 27 2013 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 00:15 Ammanas wrote:On March 26 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:On March 26 2013 23:44 Geos13 wrote: "Kespa and Blizzard will be working together for stable operation of teams and future tournament participation of the players, and will be looking to apply korean esports infrastructure made by proleague to the US and around the globe."
American and European Proleagues??? That would be huge. One can only hope... I cannot describe how badass that would be. With the right rules and structure, that could be the best thing that has happened to SC2. How would this be any good? People in LR are now complaining about Koreans, who are not your Flash/Roro/Innovation/Rain (people like, let's say, bravO or Terminator) that "they are just terrible" when they play. These are maybe not main stars or the best players, but still A-teamers in their teams. Now imagine the same level of players (who would have to play in such format) in US or EU teams. Do we really want to watch people that play 4 hours a day, 3 days a week? Do we want to watch 800 points masters players? I know I don't.... It’s the long term plan of making competitive players in every region. The first teams that get involved are going to be worse than Koreans, for sure. But they will get better over time by getting coaches trained in Kespa Houses, training their players in Korea and having Korean training partner. Its about exporting the Korean play styles, training and dedication to other regions through a long term process. The only way that can happen is by having structure, consistent competitions that make it worth the time to export those skills and play styles. Its not about the short term goal of the next MLG, but looking years down the line. I agree with this. Question is, who is gonna pay for it. Teams don't have money, Blizzard would be plain stupid to pay for it since they would get basically nothing from it, tournaments could but they also don't have money to invest into something that could return in maybe 10 years. Fans could pay, but... really would YOU be watching terrible games of terrible players (ofc in contrast to GSL champion level), just because you would think that maybe, in 5 years, those players could actually become good? It will not take 5 years and I think people will be shocked how quickly the level of play moves up. If the system is anything as consistent as Proleague, players and teams are going to be trying to edge each other out on a weekly basis. Players won’t train by grinding ladder games, but by focusing on a specific match up or skill. The teams will always be looking for new ways to improve their play, rather than waiting to see what the bracket is for the next big event like MLG. Just from watching the Riot’s LCS, the teams on that are trying new things every week and watching all the other leagues for new tricks, team builds and other ways to get small advantages. Even that's suspect because you still have the problem of Asia>Europe>NA. The Dignitas team certainly benefited from training over there and since they've adapted to that style of play they've been a force. Those guys shouldn't really be grinding on Ladder to begin with because it isn't good form. Yeah, well that is going to be a problem for the foreseeable future until NA figures out how to step it up as a whole. But that is not a problem with any one league or game, but NA as a whole. Still the only way to get NA players to be better is to have competitive tournaments and leagues in NA for all games. The answer cannot be “emigrate to another country to train in a video game”, that is just no viable for 90% of the talent pool. The problem with NA isn’t the talent, but a vacuum of competitive tournaments at all skill levels. I personally believe it is a problem of the country being so large and no one being able to focus their efforts on one section of the country. Who said it had to be viable for that astronomical number you threw out? When it comes to NA I'm looking at a very limited pool of prospects. Not only that the culture for some of these talents would be too much for them to adapt to in the first place. In some cases you have to do what you have to do if you really want to get good. My old coaches in athletics told me the same shit all the time. 98% hard work; 2% raw talent. I'm always skeptical when it came to such things, but yes hard work does payoff. I honestly wish they would put genetics in there. Especially when it came to sports like rowing and basketball. So when we're talking about talent? Oh it's very hard to find good talent no matter how you slice it. You think IdrA is a talented player? I'd say no. I'd say it was his hard work and mechanics which developed from that hard work to become a better player. Raw talent is very hard to come by and having good mechanics can only take you so far. See Mr. Bisu for example. You cannot teach Star sense. It might get better with time, but some players just get it. Bringing in A-list/B-list Koreans should have some benefits. Let me put it this way, back in BW I used to bring in a lot of Koreans to practice with my boys because I knew it would benefit the players. Likewise in my MMA practice we bring in reputable fighters from other camps for sparring purposes. That's actually pretty common because it's next to impossible to be the guru in every martial art. Just like one player could be really good at one match-up and totally suck in another. I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Emigrate to another country just to get better at a game is not something that most people can do. It is also not practical and comes with a number of issues that make the prospect to risky for most players. Some of the issues are underrated by the community, like culture shock(totally underrated by the community), isolation and the inability to speak the language really cut into the potential players that can succeed in the scene. Hypothetically, if we took all the Korean pros right now and instead of having to go to Seoul Korean, they had to emigrate to the US, how many talent players wouldn't make the trip simply because it wasn't viable or possible. I think it would a signifigant number. I also think living in the US would have a negative affect on their ability to pratice and focus. This is my personal opinion, but I think there is growing pool of evidence that shows moving over seas can be really tough on some players. This idea isn't some kind of excuse for foreign players, more an observation on the problem. If you look at the lengths coaches go to in other professional sports (or high skill professions like music) go to keeping their charges free of stress and distraction, it no wonder some of the players under perform in Korea. It is a solvable problem, but I think it does limit the people who are willing to take that risk for any specific area.
What do you think I just wrote? I mentioned there are only a few viable prospects who would be able to embrace it. Not only that but the player pool of prospects is severely limited. There is no catching up. If you want to improve you have to play against the top gamers. You cannot learn as much when you are beating/losing mediocre players. It teaches you bad habits. If you truly want to realize your full potential you have to make the move and we've seen a lot of teams do this. CLG EU now EG got severely better in their stay. Just another LoL team to look at.
Looks like you agree with the diminished returns of a Korean moving to the US to practice. Of course there's evidence that foreigners cannot adjust. Once again, goes back to what I said earlier. First you have to find the prospect then you have to see whether or not they can adapt (that's where you have to look at their character - God damn psychology). That severely limits you and that's why it isn't easy. No one said it would be easy. Take Nony for example. Great strategic mind who went to estro as well. Guy had good template to work with when he arrived in Korea. Got along with his teammates. As he practiced he realized, "Shit, to get better I would have to change my current template." Notice how I said he was already a very good strategic mind yet to truly hit his personal skill ceiling he would have to rewire himself. That's a pretty daunting task. Unfortunately he couldn't leave home behind and ofc we all know he got married and we wish him the best. Yes, it does take a remarkable, persistent player to achieve great results when it comes to foreigners. With that said, we don't have the luxury of having spectacular coaches either. In fact, the pool of good coaches is very very small. To all those guys trying to coach. You might think you're good at the game, but that doesn't make you a great coach at the game. The coaches have to be able to put on a lot of different hats and it is no easy job especially when you have to deal with certain individuals. Teaching basics isn't hard. Getting a player over the hump is another story altogether.
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On March 27 2013 03:12 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:04 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:57 jinorazi wrote:On March 27 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age Wow some people lol All the professional sports leagues in the US have rules against players joining their league without finishing highschool. The NFL requires players to finish 3 years of college. Athleates can practice sports when they are minors and compete in minor leagues, but not for the major, nation teams. i think thats just a difference of developed scene (pro sports) vs developing scene (esports). you can compare it to young adults wanting to act or sing, they too go through hardships where the (labor abuse?)lines are much more feint. gymnasts, figure skaters, etc. i think it all varies on the people you, as an athlete, deal with. a lot of mistreatment and whatnot are the result of bad (individual)management and not the industry. Almost all of the children who become dedicated in gymnastic, music, figure skating and other disciplines do so under the supervision of their parents and are not employed by anyone. They don’t work for an cooperate entity or other group, but compete in events that are normally directed at non-commercial tournaments/events. The Kespa teams are not the parents of the B-teamers. There is a very clear line between competing in figure skating and being the practice partner for a Kespa team’s star player. So you think, that when somebody trains for figure skating, he doesnt have a trainer and isn't training? Or what are you trying to say? There are world championships for U15, U17, U19, U21 in every sport basically. Like, how old was Messi when he joined Barcelona training camp? Or other football players, how young are they when they join training camps of clubs like Chelsea, Real, Barca, basically every club in Premier League, Bundesliga, Primera Division, etc...? (And so you don't have to look it up on the internet - it's mostly about 6, sometimes sooner, sometimes later...)
Everyone knows that there are U15, U17, etc. for every sport imaginable. The point is the time commitment to these activities. If you have to work 10 hours a day on soccer, then there would be a problem. I don't think that these 6 year olds are off training for 10 hours 6-7 days a week. That's where the analogy fails. If I'm wrong and Europe actually has people skipping grade school to train 70 hours a week for soccer, then consider me shocked and disgusted, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.
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On March 27 2013 03:12 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:04 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:57 jinorazi wrote:On March 27 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age Wow some people lol All the professional sports leagues in the US have rules against players joining their league without finishing highschool. The NFL requires players to finish 3 years of college. Athleates can practice sports when they are minors and compete in minor leagues, but not for the major, nation teams. i think thats just a difference of developed scene (pro sports) vs developing scene (esports). you can compare it to young adults wanting to act or sing, they too go through hardships where the (labor abuse?)lines are much more feint. gymnasts, figure skaters, etc. i think it all varies on the people you, as an athlete, deal with. a lot of mistreatment and whatnot are the result of bad (individual)management and not the industry. Almost all of the children who become dedicated in gymnastic, music, figure skating and other disciplines do so under the supervision of their parents and are not employed by anyone. They don’t work for an cooperate entity or other group, but compete in events that are normally directed at non-commercial tournaments/events. The Kespa teams are not the parents of the B-teamers. There is a very clear line between competing in figure skating and being the practice partner for a Kespa team’s star player. So you think, that when somebody trains for figure skating, he doesnt have a trainer and isn't training? Or what are you trying to say? There are world championships for U15, U17, U19, U21 in every sport basically. Like, how old was Messi when he joined Barcelona training camp? Or other football players, how young are they when they join training camps of clubs like Chelsea, Real, Barca, basically every club in Premier League, Bundesliga, Primera Division, etc...? (And so you don't have to look it up on the internet - it's mostly about 6, sometimes sooner, sometimes later...)
They aren’t working for no or poor pay so someone else can make money. That is why it would not be legal in the US. Don’t confuse the issue, I am not talking high school clubs or people playing after school, practicing for hours. Or people trying to becoming an Olympic figure skater or swimmer. I am talking about being practice partners for the best teams in Korea, who are sponsored by their largest businesses and not getting paid very well for it. In the US, you would have an attorney general on your ass in short order if that was happening.
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On March 27 2013 03:02 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:50 Azarkon wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. Here comes the 'they own us in Starcraft, but we own them in life'... Personally, I think NA teens choosing to become gangsters, druggies, delinquents, teen moms, etc. is a bigger problem than Korean teens choosing to become pro-gamers. NA teens don't exactly have a better rate of becoming productive members of society. You just missed the entire point of what I was saying. If anyone ever wants to see any sort of parity between the foreign and Korean scene, then there will have to be differences in the approach on both sides of the coin. Foreign teams will have to adapt stricter training regimens with coaches and team houses. Koreans will have to drop the practice of getting their adult progamers from the ranks of underage progamers who are the practice slaves on a team. I know everyone likes to say "sacrifice more" or "practice more," but it's completely unreasonable to ask a Westerner to drop out of high school on the off chance that he or she might actually have a progaming career. We don't do that in actual sports, and we shouldn't do that in esports. The bottom line is that it will be extremely hard for a Westerner who goes pro after high school will have a hard time catching a Korean who went pro at 13 or 14 with all other variables equal.
When you start a post with 'Koreans are behind [as a society] because [they don't have child labor laws for pro-gamers and so their kids drop out of school to play games]", what do you think people are going to latch onto? Yes, your argument about early talent in Korea vs. the West is logical, but the way you presented it is not.
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On March 27 2013 03:19 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:05 Pimpmuckl wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote: In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career.
I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. "In many ways" and you name one of the only ways i can imagine right now, lol! Seriously dude, we have a similar progression with guys playing soccer and dropping out of school because of it. If they can't break through they will go back and just start where they left off, with the time "wasted". And now i ask you if time is wasted if you pursue your dream and have fun doing so. And does anyone watch soccer matches of guys who currently study? Just because they don't interrupt their educational path for their passion? No, nobody gives a shit about that. It's about quality, it's about the team being close to you, not about anything else. Edit: Pretty funny how the thread derailed. Stop thinking the one way of living you think is right is the actual right way to do so for everyone. This is specifically one reason why the United States is behind Europe when it comes to soccer, and many people watch these soccer games. The NCAA soccer championship is on ESPN every year. Do these people seriously go back to school with 14 year olds where they left off? I was under the impression that the German school system was much more regimented than that. I'm not talking about dropping out of university, I'm talking about dropping out of high school. I have no problem with adults doing what they want to do. I think it's law that you have to go to school till you're 15 or 16 in most countries here in Europe. If someone then quits at that age the person can go back later, taking adult education that is held by a stand alone school who's purpose is to educate people who have gaps in their education and need to catch up and get grades to go on and study at the university.
So no, you don't go back to high school with the other kids, you are around adults who are in the same situation as you.
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On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success?
I do agree with this. Having a regional league does not, in and of itself, solve the problem of international competitiveness. Regional leagues are one feature of an infrastructure; they are not the infrastructure in and of itself.
The industry understanding about regional leagues is that players in those leagues play 'well enough to win in their own region' and no further. A scene that is behind does not get ahead just by having a regional league, because the issues that led to it falling behind remain unresolved.
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On March 27 2013 03:25 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:02 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:50 Azarkon wrote:On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success? koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers. westerners get $100 weekly tournaments. yes, clearly the koreans are behind. In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career. I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career. Here comes the 'they own us in Starcraft, but we own them in life'... Personally, I think NA teens choosing to become gangsters, druggies, delinquents, teen moms, etc. is a bigger problem than Korean teens choosing to become pro-gamers. NA teens don't exactly have a better rate of becoming productive members of society. You just missed the entire point of what I was saying. If anyone ever wants to see any sort of parity between the foreign and Korean scene, then there will have to be differences in the approach on both sides of the coin. Foreign teams will have to adapt stricter training regimens with coaches and team houses. Koreans will have to drop the practice of getting their adult progamers from the ranks of underage progamers who are the practice slaves on a team. I know everyone likes to say "sacrifice more" or "practice more," but it's completely unreasonable to ask a Westerner to drop out of high school on the off chance that he or she might actually have a progaming career. We don't do that in actual sports, and we shouldn't do that in esports. The bottom line is that it will be extremely hard for a Westerner who goes pro after high school will have a hard time catching a Korean who went pro at 13 or 14 with all other variables equal. When you start a post with 'Koreans are behind [as a society] because [they don't have child labor laws for pro-gamers and so their kids drop out of school to play games]", what do you think people are going to latch onto? Yes, your argument about early talent in Korea vs. the West is logical, but the way you presented it is not.
Then sorry. I'm at work and debugging code so I was trying to make a short argument.
I'm thinking of actually taking the time to research an effort post where I make a long and drawn out argument about these things. It's clear that as time goes on we are moving closer to the BW style of progaming, and that's a bad thing. If we are going to actually right the ship to a point where foreigners who want to train hard are competitive, then controls will have to be put on Koreans so that they don't go pro at 14.
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Imagine there was a system to match up and broadcast a match of two top koreans who are on a HOT STREAK. This would make for the most epic matches ever! And, we have the stats system to be able to single out those on a HOT STREAK. Epic confidence levels, mechanical fine tuning like no other, FIGHT!
Speaking about ladder here. You know if two guys are going like 20-1 on the night or something!
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