I guess it's not fair to call someone a cheater without any evidence outside of whatever evidence his perfomance provides, innocent until proven guilty right? Doesn't matter, a race where the same rider trashes everybody else on every time trial and on every mountain finish is just not exciting to follow.
Tour de France 2013 - Page 7
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I guess it's not fair to call someone a cheater without any evidence outside of whatever evidence his perfomance provides, innocent until proven guilty right? Doesn't matter, a race where the same rider trashes everybody else on every time trial and on every mountain finish is just not exciting to follow. | ||
Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On July 15 2013 00:59 prplhz wrote: Last time I saw anyone riding like this (multiple sprints up a mountain) was the Michael Rasmussen/Alberto Contador rides in 2007. At least back then there were two riders who were able to do it. Also related to the video, I miss Mauricio Soler, poor guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvjiaxO1uV8 I guess it's not fair to call someone a cheater without any evidence outside of whatever evidence his perfomance provides, innocent until proven guilty right? Doesn't matter, a race where the same rider trashes everybody else on every time trial and on every mountain finish is just not exciting to follow. I beg to differ. This have been the most exciting tour for ages imo. So full of action, so full of attacks and offensive riding. Until Froome crushed today the tour was open. Sky was in big big trouble going into todays stage. | ||
petered
United States1817 Posts
On July 15 2013 01:08 Tunkeg wrote: I beg to differ. This have been the most exciting tour for ages imo. So full of action, so full of attacks and offensive riding. Until Froome crushed today the tour was open. Sky was in big big trouble going into todays stage. Big trouble? Yes they showed some weakness but Froome was still 2+ minutes ahead of his closest competitor. It only seemed like it was close because he lost a bit of time on a flat stage. It is an exciting tour, though. Contador, even when he is not the best, attacks and attacks until he has no more. Yes, I am a fanboy, love his style. It is also fun to watch quintana, this guy is shaping up to be the next climbing great. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands20769 Posts
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smr
Germany4808 Posts
On July 15 2013 01:08 Tunkeg wrote: I beg to differ. This have been the most exciting tour for ages imo. So full of action, so full of attacks and offensive riding. Until Froome crushed today the tour was open. Sky was in big big trouble going into todays stage. I would disagree. Sure sky had a problem here in there but all three important stages (ax 3 domaines, tt, ventoux) have been absolutely dominated by froome. The other teams especially movistar are trying a lot and that is awsome to watch but their is no competition for froome. e: still it's exciting to watch because bakelants, quintana do not care for standard tactics they just go ahead and try to fight. | ||
Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
On July 15 2013 00:59 prplhz wrote: Last time I saw anyone riding like this (multiple sprints up a mountain) was the Michael Rasmussen/Alberto Contador rides in 2007. At least back then there were two riders who were able to do it. Also related to the video, I miss Mauricio Soler, poor guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvjiaxO1uV8 I guess it's not fair to call someone a cheater without any evidence outside of whatever evidence his perfomance provides, innocent until proven guilty right? Doesn't matter, a race where the same rider trashes everybody else on every time trial and on every mountain finish is just not exciting to follow. I think Aubisque (The climb in your video) was probably the least ridiculous ascent of 2007 tour. This is probably the most ridiculous ascent of that tour, they were going around 7.2 W/Kg during that 4.5 minutes, which is borderline ridiculous. And dont forget the direct quote from Rasmussen. "I have used doping substances and methods during the period 1998-2010, including EPO, growth hormone, testosterone, DHEA, insulin, IGF-1, cortisone and blood transfusions," For today, It looks like Froome did last 15.65 km of the climb (After that point climb gets steeper) in 48:35, which is well below the expected time of 50:46 and he broke the record since Pantani after today's 220 km of hard racing. I know that most of these guys are doping and I'm actually fine with that. (That's the way of cycling works, funny but true) But I lose my shit when the bald dickhead Brailsford said that there wont be any repeated attacks in "new cycling" or people wont win by minutes, or Porte's arrogance before tour when he was losing 15-20 minutes every stage without helping Contador in 2011 or Froome motoring away Contador without getting out of his saddle considering the fact that he was climbing like this 4 years ago: (Dont forget that he was kicked out of 2010 Giro because he was holding motors on the climbs, what a talent) Another thing that I hate is that UCI and ASO covers people like Armstrong, Wiggins and Froome but do not hesitate to shaft riders like Rasmussen because he was not charismatic or he could not bring money to cycling because of various reasons. (Contador got away with a warning ban and I think that Clenbuterol thing is made up to punish him mildly. Dont forget that ASO banned Contador's team in 2008 because of doping incidents in 2007 even though Contador was on a different team and he was the defending champion, so I think that ASO does not like Contador at all ) Edit: http://www.up-shack.com/assets/up/10866121d68f8b9af608cb16b440c8b4.swf This is going to be my favorite thing, look at that champ, he's climbing like Pantani and he can time trial like Indurain. | ||
petered
United States1817 Posts
Also, look how much weight Froome has lost since then without losing even a bit of power, in fact he has gained ridiculous power. Makes zero sense and the only reasonable conclusion is that he is doping, imo. We should have greater clarity once the times are confirmed and analyzed. He didn't even look tired, though. I wouldn't be surprised if he could have dropped another 30 seconds off that time but wanted to avoid greater suspicion. | ||
Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:21 petered wrote: I believe Rasmussen was canned by his team, not by the UCI. I would agree the UCI seems corrupt, though. Also, look how much weight Froome has lost since then without losing even a bit of power, in fact he has gained ridiculous power. Makes zero sense and the only reasonable conclusion is that he is doping, imo. We should have greater clarity once the times are confirmed and analyzed. He didn't even look tired, though. I wouldn't be surprised if he could have dropped another 30 seconds off that time but wanted to avoid greater suspicion. UCI and ASO forced Rabobank to kick him out, they didnt want to put their hands in the dirt. And Rabo knew what was going on completely, their magic doctor Leinders made him a flying chicken. (Can you guess that on which team is he working right now) | ||
petered
United States1817 Posts
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:29 petered wrote: I keep seeing conflicting reports about Froome's time today. Looks like he was actually within fairly normal ranges. I may have to retract the "obviously doping" stance. Froome's time is around 48.5 minutes, so he's way faster than 2008-2013 GT numbers (left graph) and he's just on par with 2002-2007 dope fest numbers. (right graph) There is no way that he's doing this with bread and water considering his past. Edit: The numbers look less ridiculous compared to Ax-3 Domaines, he was beating 2002-2007 doped numbers by around %2 Edit 2: #TDF, Mont Ventoux, last 6.15 km, 8.00 %, 492 m 2002 | Lance Armstrong: 17 min 53 sec 2013 | Chtris Froome: 17 min 41 sec No comment is necessary for this comparison | ||
petered
United States1817 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:35 Hyperionnn wrote: Froome's time is around 48.5 minutes, so he's way faster than 2008-2013 GT numbers (left graph) and he's just on par with 2002-2007 dope fest numbers. (right graph) There is no way that he's doing this with bread and water considering his past. Edit: The numbers look less ridiculous compared to Ax-3 Domaines, he was beating 2002-2007 doped numbers by around %2 Edit 2: #TDF, Mont Ventoux, last 6.15 km, 8.00 %, 492 m 2002 | Lance Armstrong: 17 min 53 sec 2013 | Chtris Froome: 17 min 41 sec No comment is necessary for this comparison Yeah, I just saw that last update. A few people were measuring the climb from different starting points. Apparently the first few kilometers were quite slow, and calculations including that portion were closer to normal ranges. His finish does seem quite damning. Where are you getting the pVAM and DpVam graph? I am familiar with those calculations but I don't know the source. | ||
Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:44 petered wrote: Yeah, I just saw that last update. A few people were measuring the climb from different starting points. Apparently the first few kilometers were quite slow, and calculations including that portion were closer to normal ranges. His finish does seem quite damning. Where are you getting the pVAM and DpVam graph? I am familiar with those calculations but I don't know the source. http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/ His language is barely comprehensible but he knows his stuff for sure | ||
Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:46 Hyperionnn wrote: http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/ His language is barely comprehensible but he knows his stuff for sure Barely comprehensible doesn't quite cover it, that writing is just bizarre. | ||
Otolia
France5805 Posts
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Muecke
Germany150 Posts
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On July 15 2013 03:31 Otolia wrote: But guys, Froome is obviously using superior technology on his bike. No no, Sky just have "superior training methods". | ||
darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
I will consider Froome clean until evidence proves the contrary. | ||
AndyJay
Australia833 Posts
The only thing that stands out to me is if Froome is doping then why isn't the rest of the peloton? What happened to Porte? Do Sky just give the good stuff to their GC contender? | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands20769 Posts
Its hard to find someones believable at that point. | ||
BenKen
United States860 Posts
On July 15 2013 09:22 AndyJay wrote: Kinda hilarious that these days results alone are enough to convince people that riders are doping. You guys do know that the aim of a race is to finish first right? And some people are just freaks and will be outliers (ie the winners). That being said it wouldn't surprise me at all if 90%+ of the peloton is doping right now (probably in a way that can't be tested or possibly isn't even illegal yet). The only thing that stands out to me is if Froome is doping then why isn't the rest of the peloton? What happened to Porte? Do Sky just give the good stuff to their GC contender? They could all be doping, but if that's the case then Froome might just be one of those guys whose body just responds to the current PEDs better than everyone else (I.e. Armstrong). | ||
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