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On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone.
Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them.
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On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie.
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On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie.
Many articles online indicate it was confirmed at Comic Con it's going to be Batman vs Superman. I agree it can't be a physical fight per se, but I don't see any non far-fetched way that Superman couldn't thwart Batman simply using his supreme powers.
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On July 22 2013 23:07 MilesTeg wrote: I think it's time to retire Superman already...he's just not an interesting hero, never has been. From movies, at least.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I think he can be interesting, if the writer focused the movie on his internal struggles as an alien who was raised as a human, and how he develops from that. There was a bit of that in MoS, but it still felt like a celebration of an OP character. It's why the earlier trailers for MoS was so good. The film actually seemed like it would focus more on the Man of Steel. I should've known better though with Goyer writing it.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie. This is my point. There was no way to write it and have it be reasonable in a comic either.
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On July 23 2013 01:35 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie. Many articles online indicate it was confirmed at Comic Con it's going to be Batman vs Superman. I agree it can't be a physical fight per se, but I don't see any non far-fetched way that Superman couldn't thwart Batman simply using his supreme powers. Clearly the conflict will be about something that physical power won't be able to deal with. And it will end with an epic team up, that is how these movies go. The best buddy cop movies start out with the characters in conflict and end up with them working together. That is how all the best Superman & Batman stories go.
Superman is at his best when he is punching missiles out of the sky. Batman is at this best when he is threatening people and hanging them from skylights. They can do both those things at the same time. Hell, Batman could save people in a plane filled with hostages while Superman punches missiles out of the sky that are coming at the plane.
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On July 23 2013 01:49 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie. This is my point. There was no way to write it and have it be reasonable in a comic either. It happened in Dark Knight Returns. Batman beats superman(an older, slower Superman), only to have heart failure at the end. Do people not read this comic any more?
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United States22883 Posts
On July 23 2013 01:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:49 Jibba wrote:On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie. This is my point. There was no way to write it and have it be reasonable in a comic either. It happened in Dark Knight Returns. Batman beats superman(an older, slower Superman), only to have heart failure at the end. Do people not read this comic any more? I've cited DKR like a million times already. Frank Miller did a great job until he got to Superman. The Superman conceptualization sucks. Post-nuclear blast Superman, who's now a radioactive hazard btw, would destroy Batman in the exoframe, without much effort. Green Arrow even hitting Superman with the kryptonite was ridiculous.
Just because it happened in a comic series doesn't mean it makes sense. DC has lots of bad tie ins that don't make sense.
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This is bad news.
After Chris Nolan rehabilitated Batman with a great trilogy Zack Snyder is going to trash him again. IMO he is just a shitty director who blinds you with visuals.
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On July 23 2013 02:01 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:53 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:49 Jibba wrote:On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie. This is my point. There was no way to write it and have it be reasonable in a comic either. It happened in Dark Knight Returns. Batman beats superman(an older, slower Superman), only to have heart failure at the end. Do people not read this comic any more? I've cited DKR like a million times already. Frank Miller did a great job until he got to Superman. The Superman conceptualization sucks. Post-nuclear blast Superman, who's now a radioactive hazard btw, would destroy Batman in the exoframe, without much effort. Green Arrow even hitting Superman with the kryptonite was ridiculous. Just because it happened in a comic series doesn't mean it makes sense. DC has lots of bad tie ins that don't make sense. I guess if you want to see it that way. I personally never saw Superman as unbeatable in most comics and didn't find anything in DKR to be unreasonable, but everyone is entitled to their view.
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Wait, will there be no next superman stand-alone movie?
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On July 22 2013 02:52 crms wrote: Superman has always been incredibly lame and Batman just redeemed itself post-keaton movies with bale. This is a terrible idea.
They could always get Clooney in to kill Batman off again in Batman vs Superman, then set up another epic reboot (Nolan style)....
On July 23 2013 02:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Wait, will there be no next superman stand-alone movie?
If there was going to be a stand alone Superman one, half of it would be spent with him rebuilding Metropolis and apologising for making such a mess...
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fuck this is retarded. and the batman logo is more retarded. all about the $$$
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On July 23 2013 01:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 00:58 kwizach wrote:On July 22 2013 21:58 Jibba wrote:On July 22 2013 16:05 vol_ wrote:For people who don't read comics it may be hard for them to understand how Batman and Superman can actually work together given their different power levels but done well it can actually work out nicely. The fact that Batman is the contingency plan to stopping Superman should he go baddy in the DC universe should speak to how Batman is not as wimpy as you might think. On July 22 2013 13:59 17Sphynx17 wrote: I find it funny how people keep of saying/assuming that Superman is a nitwit compared to Batman.
Krypton was an advanced alien civilization and he himself is an inventor/collector in certain respects. And he has the knowledge of Krypton within his reach, via the Fortress of Solitude. . Yea this bugs me too, Superman is actually a scientific genius in his own right. I know the writers have done it, but most of DC's writers also tend to be fucking awful, especially when it comes to Superman. The fact that Superman and Batman have been in tie-ins before isn't a reflection on it making sense, it's a reflection on DC's previous cash grabs. They never should have co-existed. Let's ignore supercharging in the Sun and the fact that the Batman movie series have just come from the more "real" universe, where he has no concept of kryptonite or red sunlight. Take away Superman's stupid mindreading and intelligence and martial arts mastery and hypnosis and just reduce him to his speed and strength\. Let's not even put him at peak levels. He can be the original 1930's speed (faster than a speeding bullet), and he gets his planet moving strength (not the effortless planet smashing strength). That's 1,000 mph and capable of lifting 66 quintillion tons. He is just so many orders of magnitudes different. That's 2.2 x 10^19 times stronger than Bane at his peak. The idea that kryptonite instantly reduces him to the levels of a weak human has always been absurd. It should make him vulnerable against other superhumans, not real humans. It being in the comics before is not a good explanation. It's never made any sense. Superman is a only good character when he's dealing with galactic stuff. His design falls apart everywhere else. Did you even read the Superman & Batman comics? DC writers have made it work. The two characters bring very different skillsets to the table and can complement each other nicely. No, they really don't. DC fans love how they've been brought together because they're DC fans, not because the books have done it well. For all the positives DKR had for the Batman franchise, the portrayal of Superman was as bad as any other. Given how much they've loaded up Superman over the years, even in good series like All Star, there's no way to bring him back down to earth to exist on Batman's level. They don't complement each other at all. It's the same with Superman and Flash. Flash serves no purpose in a universe where Superman exists and is as fast as him. Superman has all of the skill sets. People are talking like Superman isn't a genius or a combat specialist or a mindcontroller. He's all of those things, unfortunately. And even if he weren't those things, the strength difference still makes up for it. There's no fighting technique by which a 3 year old will defeat a body builder. The Superman & Batman comics are not about the two characters fighting each other. That would be ridiculous. They are about the two characters teaming up against various threats. I'm not a DC fan yet there are plenty of storylines in the original Superman & Batman run in which both characters bring something to the table and complement each other nicely (not to say the movie should be an adaptation of any of these storylines, but they show it can be done). Also, the Superman we've seen in MoS certainly doesn't seem to be a great tactician or strategist, and has no genius-level feats so far either.
The two characters also bring two different visions of what it means to be a hero, how a hero can influence society, how a hero should fight crime, how optimistic you should be about mankind, etc. There's plenty of material to make a Superman-Batman partnership interesting beyond fights/action.
edit: for the record, I would have liked to see at least another Superman movie before the team-up, to better establish the journalist Clark Kent character and possibly introduce a couple other Superman enemies.
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Even though I know it's not based off of it, but I'm currently downloading and watching "Dark Knight Returns".
Lets see how this is.
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On July 23 2013 02:01 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 01:53 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:49 Jibba wrote:On July 23 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 01:28 foxmeep wrote:On July 23 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone. Avengers wasn't well written. And Loki was the enemy. Imagine if the movie was Thor vs Black Widow and Hawkeye? GG to them. I don't think this is going to be Superman vs Batman. They quoted the Dark Knight Returns comic because it is the most well known time they were featured together. If anything, the two will be at odds due to the ways that choose to operate, rahter than fighting each other. The conflict between them will be at a professional level, not physical. There is no way to write that and have it be reasonable in a movie. This is my point. There was no way to write it and have it be reasonable in a comic either. It happened in Dark Knight Returns. Batman beats superman(an older, slower Superman), only to have heart failure at the end. Do people not read this comic any more? I've cited DKR like a million times already. Frank Miller did a great job until he got to Superman. The Superman conceptualization sucks. Post-nuclear blast Superman, who's now a radioactive hazard btw, would destroy Batman in the exoframe, without much effort. Green Arrow even hitting Superman with the kryptonite was ridiculous. Just because it happened in a comic series doesn't mean it makes sense. DC has lots of bad tie ins that don't make sense.
Aside from the logistics of the whole thing I have to say the general story pacing staggers in book three and practically collapses in four. I think they had deadline pressure or something or the second half would have been very different.
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Like majority of comic book movies, they will most likely combine elements of The Dark Knight Returns, Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, and an old favorite, The Batman Superman Movie: World's Finest.
Fans speculate that with the ending of Man of Steel, a large chunk of Metropolis has been destroyed during the invasion of General Zod. Lex Luthor will most likely be a key figure in the reconstruction of the city. After all, there were two shots of Lex Corp logos in the movie along with a Wayne Enterprises easter egg in the Man of Steel. He won't be the only billionaire because he will team up with Bruce Wayne. In the film, Superman early on realizes Luthor's motives and attempts to stop him, but will be met with a force known as Batman. Batman has no reason to trust Superman after what he has done during the fight with Zod and causing so much destruction and civilian deaths. Plus, he could a have a friendship with Lex Luthor in the beginning and end up using his detective skills and find out who he really is. Near the middle of the movie is where we get a Superman and Batman team up such as the animated movie/short arc called The Batman Superman Movie: World's Finest. They could bring in a villain from Batman's world or they could stick with Lex Luthor and Metallo vs Batman and Superman.
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The only way they can get Superman vs Batman to work is by abandoning that canon in which Superman is capable of moving planets with his little finger.
As I've pointed out, that doesn't even make sense in the context of the comics. If Doomsday and Superman are laying into each other their hardest, it would cause a lot more than smashed windows. It would throw the Earth out of its orbit.
I can't believe that intelligent people can derive entertainment out of the Superman stories.
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The only way to do this is Batman Beyond!
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