Does kinda suck you can't O-ring your own things, but meh, worth it to fix the wording.
Magic: The Gathering - Page 532
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Does kinda suck you can't O-ring your own things, but meh, worth it to fix the wording. | ||
mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
Blue/red temple might see a little play in eternals since the temples seem to be cementing themselves as the third choice behind fetches and shocks when you're not playing tempo/aggro. Godsend might end up being a counter to something, but consensus seems to be it's not going to augment or replace the sword/skull mystic package. | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 18 2014 18:01 Thereisnosaurus wrote: bit of a disappointing set overall. Some good stuff there, but not much that'll hold value as far as I can see. Can't really see much that seems clearly interesting in modern. Dakara mystic for fish, perhaps one or two of the gods in a niche here or there. Maybe, maaaybe eidolon of blossoms, but it seems far too expensive and vulnerable. Blue/red temple might see a little play in eternals since the temples seem to be cementing themselves as the third choice behind fetches and shocks when you're not playing tempo/aggro. Godsend might end up being a counter to something, but consensus seems to be it's not going to augment or replace the sword/skull mystic package. This set seems just ripe for drafting. Lots of solid commons of various sizes and all the complicated spells are mythic. All the colors have heroic and spells to activate them while the glut of cheap bestow creatures means that the decks will have low curves without the drawback of being stuck with crappy 1-2 drops. Godsend has 1 thing going for it over the swords and skull--defensive capability. If a creature is blockable it cannot attack in anyway shape or form through a Godsend. A vigilance focused deck can definitely abuse Godsend making it almost like a soft lock vs creature decks. This is something the swords and the skull can't really do (maybe the skull) but has the weakness of requiring a creature base that is not being currently used (hence more inefficient creature base). | ||
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
The new set has Atheros and that's about it. There's a few interesting cards, and I am probably taking another look at Esper aggro/humans with these cards. Overall, pretty bland set. | ||
Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 18 2014 17:00 mr_tolkien wrote: 3/1 once more in a daily event ! I'm over 80 tix now starting from 0 in 2 weeks :D Good job man And yeah it looks like it's going to be fun to draft but not a very good set overall. Sales are going to be boosted simply because of how poor BNG was. | ||
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Devotion was a neat mechanic except when you realize that the cards powering it are (way past mostly) from...RtR block. The entire block feels like it was trying to get pulled into a million different directions and ended up being mediocre or worse for all aspects. Monstrous was a joke since your removal was overcosted as fuck in Limited and undercosted (and potentially useless) as fuck in Standard. | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 19 2014 04:47 Judicator wrote: This entire block I felt was a disappointment, they really could have gone much farther with the legends theme, really doing what they did with Kamigawa except with a more accessible mythology (Greek vs. Far East). Instead we end up with this pile of generic shit none of which is particularly memorable. Like when the best thing out of the block are the Scry duals, I am not sure what I am suppose to get out of the block. Devotion was a neat mechanic except when you realize that the cards powering it are (way past mostly) from...RtR block. The entire block feels like it was trying to get pulled into a million different directions and ended up being mediocre or worse for all aspects. Monstrous was a joke since your removal was overcosted as fuck in Limited and undercosted (and potentially useless) as fuck in Standard. I think the main problem of the set is that the 5 colors dont really feel unique from each other personality wise. Like, the blue cards feel like generic blue cards with blue people on them and it doesn't have a personality unique to what Theros blue would feel like. Does that make sense? Like, for example, Heliod pumps out Cat Enchantment tokens. And yet, white doesn't feel like the "cat" color nor does it feel like the "enchantment" color. Hammer of Purphoros sacs lands but red never feels like the "sac lands" color of the set. Sure, overall within the totality of magic those associations are accurate--but not in Theros. The flavor has been too split up. Like, because of the monocolored gods and the multicolored gods I can't even figure out who the god of death is. Black? WB? GB? Is W or R or WR or GR the aggressive color? etc... Its like they wanted to make a new ravnica block with greeks in it but end up just kind of giving a bit of everything to everyone. | ||
mordek
United States12704 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 19 2014 05:19 Thieving Magpie wrote: I think the main problem of the set is that the 5 colors dont really feel unique from each other personality wise. Like, the blue cards feel like generic blue cards with blue people on them and it doesn't have a personality unique to what Theros blue would feel like. Does that make sense? Like, for example, Heliod pumps out Cat Enchantment tokens. And yet, white doesn't feel like the "cat" color nor does it feel like the "enchantment" color. Hammer of Purphoros sacs lands but red never feels like the "sac lands" color of the set. Sure, overall within the totality of magic those associations are accurate--but not in Theros. The flavor has been too split up. Like, because of the monocolored gods and the multicolored gods I can't even figure out who the god of death is. Black? WB? GB? Is W or R or WR or GR the aggressive color? etc... Its like they wanted to make a new ravnica block with greeks in it but end up just kind of giving a bit of everything to everyone. Heliod pumps out clerics. Brimaz (the leader of the cat people) pumps out cats, I hope you can see how that works. Blue is Greek Sea Monsters + Merfolk + Sirens + Oracles/Sphinxes. I mean that's pretty much the flavor of "Knowledge & the Sea" that blue normally gets, transposed into Greek Mythology, which is exactly what the set wanted it to do. Erebos is the god of Death. Athreos is the Ferryman (Charon). Pharika is the god of malady. Phenax is the god of Deceit. Mogis is the god of Slaughter/War (with Iroas). I mean, all of the black gods facilitate death, but Erebos is obviously Hades. I mean I could go on, but it feels like you're just flat out not paying attention or playing with the set, not much they can do about that. I like the flavor of the set, I like what the next set is doing for the limited environment and possibly for standard because god I hate both right now. | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 20 2014 08:27 deth2munkies wrote: Heliod pumps out clerics. Brimaz (the leader of the cat people) pumps out cats, I hope you can see how that works. Blue is Greek Sea Monsters + Merfolk + Sirens + Oracles/Sphinxes. I mean that's pretty much the flavor of "Knowledge & the Sea" that blue normally gets, transposed into Greek Mythology, which is exactly what the set wanted it to do. Erebos is the god of Death. Athreos is the Ferryman (Charon). Pharika is the god of malady. Phenax is the god of Deceit. Mogis is the god of Slaughter/War (with Iroas). I mean, all of the black gods facilitate death, but Erebos is obviously Hades. I mean I could go on, but it feels like you're just flat out not paying attention or playing with the set, not much they can do about that. I like the flavor of the set, I like what the next set is doing for the limited environment and possibly for standard because god I hate both right now. Which is why I described blue as Blue cards with blue people in it. I want more than just window dressing. I want the mechanics to feel blue, I want the flavor of the cards to feel blue and not just feel like "this subset of creature types is where we are sending blue" When I see black removal spells, I want to feel that creatures are dying because of black causes and not just because its a removal spell that happens to be black. right now white can be heroic, or red, or blue, or black, or whatever. White can be death, or green, or black, or whatever. The pictures look the part, and the names look the part, but the set does not feel the part. The mechanics do not feel the part. | ||
deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 20 2014 10:54 Thieving Magpie wrote: Which is why I described blue as Blue cards with blue people in it. I want more than just window dressing. I want the mechanics to feel blue, I want the flavor of the cards to feel blue and not just feel like "this subset of creature types is where we are sending blue" When I see black removal spells, I want to feel that creatures are dying because of black causes and not just because its a removal spell that happens to be black. right now white can be heroic, or red, or blue, or black, or whatever. White can be death, or green, or black, or whatever. The pictures look the part, and the names look the part, but the set does not feel the part. The mechanics do not feel the part. Have you even been looking at the rares? They have Octopi that turn shit into islands, heroic creatures that give you extra turns, blue creatures that copy spells/undercost them in interesting ways, Blue gets all the good scry cards (except read the bones, which is absolutely a black card). It gave blue twists on the mechanics with Bestow and Tribute getting Mind Control/draw cards and Inspired letting you draw cards and play random permanents (Mind's Desire). I mean all of it is combinations of things that came before in interesting ways adapted to Greek mythology, I don't know how you could ask for more. If you feel like it's ticking boxes, that's because every magic set ever has been doing that post-Alpha. Well you're looking at the GOOD Black removal spell (Hero's Downfall), but there's a shitload more. Necrobite here is super flavorful and is essentially a removal spell, Lash of the Whip, Weight of the Underworld, Extinguish All Hope, Asphyxiate, Dark Betrayal, etc. all are flavorfully important. Hell, even Downfall hitting Planeswalkers as THE heroes of the Magic universe is flavorful. What the hell more do you want? Heroic is there in every color because every color has heroes. Colors are ideologies. White exiles shit and kills big creatures because it always does that, green fights things because it's done that ever since Innistrad, and black kills things because black. I fail to see your point. I really don't understand anything you're trying to say. You either have a really high, unrealistic expectation of what Magic is or you're not paying attention. | ||
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Generic sea monsters isn't flavorful. Basically if you changed the names of these cards, then you could see them on the Zendikar plane. Like basically what I was trying to say is that this set feels like a core set in terms of flavor and mechanics integration (okay not quite that bad, but its pretty close). For the richness that is Greek myths and heroes, we have very generic mechanics that are spread out all over. Like why does Blue have Heroic creatures that aren't heroes, like...Wavecrash Triton doesn't exactly strike me as particularly heroic nor does Chorus? None of the cards they have produced are memorable. Like take Asphyxiate, does the untapped requirement really make that much sense? Weight of the Underworld, why is it -3/-2 instead of say -X/-X? Hero's Downfall makes even less sense because PWs haven't died in lore (iirc) except to other PWs which is why something like Vraska made so much sense, but Downfall always seemed off. Dunno, but the design choices made weren't exactly for good game play especially in the limited sense. | ||
deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 20 2014 11:56 Judicator wrote: Yeah, I am not seeing it deth2munkies. Generic sea monsters isn't flavorful. Basically if you changed the names of these cards, then you could see them on the Zendikar plane. Like basically what I was trying to say is that this set feels like a core set in terms of flavor and mechanics integration (okay not quite that bad, but its pretty close). For the richness that is Greek myths and heroes, we have very generic mechanics that are spread out all over. Like why does Blue have Heroic creatures that aren't heroes, like...Wavecrash Triton doesn't exactly strike me as particularly heroic nor does Chorus? None of the cards they have produced are memorable. Like take Asphyxiate, does the untapped requirement really make that much sense? Weight of the Underworld, why is it -3/-2 instead of say -X/-X? Hero's Downfall makes even less sense because PWs haven't died in lore (iirc) except to other PWs which is why something like Vraska made so much sense, but Downfall always seemed off. Dunno, but the design choices made weren't exactly for good game play especially in the limited sense. Neowalkers (everything after time spiral) can die (See Venser). Old ones like Urza were pretty much immortal unless serious shit happened. Honestly, apart from devotion (and probably constellation), I saw every mechanic this set as a limited mechanic. Heroic is cute in constructed, but the quality of removal makes it hard to actually play effectively (same with Monstrous). Inspired is too much work for too little unless you're attacking anyway. As far as gameplay goes, the problem is that BNG, especially inspired, had a bunch of synergistic cards that you needed for the strategy that were all in one pack, same fault as Dark Ascension. At least Constellation benefits from stuff in all the sets. Chorus of Tides seems like it references a specific group of Sirens, not sure about Triton that one seems like a box checking exercise. I have no idea what you mean by "memorable". Hundred-Handed One seems like the best counter-argument, but without a clearer definition of your conception of memorable I'm not sure what to put here. You can only do so much in one card. Stuff like Curse of the Swine telling the Circe tale in pretty much exactly the way you'd expect, Akroan Horse being exactly what you'd expect, the Setessan hero literally have the land she's protecting rise up to help her, the aforementioned Hundred-Handed one, even Athreos being Charon are all extremely flavorful interpretations of Greek myth. Obviously there have to be filler cards (like Wavecrash Triton) to tick the boxes, but overall I really enjoyed the block (except for the limited environment with BNG). | ||
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Memorable as in this card wouldn't exist any where else at its cost and effect. Like Curse is a great example, but it doesn't have defining characteristic of the block. That's the problem with a lot of the cards in this block. Like you have your great designed cards like Heroes Downfall and Curse but honestly if you changed the names to Homicide and Swinemorph would you still say the same thing? That's what I mean, either the cards have great flavor or they have great effects, rarely do you have both. The Temples out of the block are probably the best, you scry at these places for guidance, and it's a pilgrimage so you spend time (hence the tapped ability). Ordeals are probably the second best, followed by the Gods. Like I read cards like Asphyxiate and I just wonder what about the untapped requirement makes sense, same goes for destroy target tapped. The Fated cycle makes a lot of sense here, but they are prohibitive to see Limited play. Instead of getting Heroes/Gods versus Monsters/Gods we got generic MtG Humans versus generic Monsters. No single color has a great identity except maybe Green (which makes sense given Green's propensity for giant creatures). Edit: The legendaries in this block is a prime example of this, none of them are memorable in terms of mechanics, like Annax and Cyamede is the only one that do what heroes would do, buff their allies. Like they could have made something like enchant legendaries only or have some direct interaction with the heroes to the non-legendaries to really get at the heroes versus everything else kind of vibe. | ||
Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
The main things I'm worried about - How much does removing the mana ramp affect our mana denial strategy? What are the implications of cutting Thalia? Is our inclusion of Mandara, kiki-jiki, and Avalanche Riders too slow and/or cute? Should I have kataki in the sideboard, or is Shatterstorm/Stony Silence/Chalice of the Void enough? Blood Moon vs Magus of the Moon? | ||
deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 20 2014 13:38 Judicator wrote: I am not saying there aren't those well designed cards, but its like when you draft, rarely are there enough deep enough to support multiple strategies. GB for example is about as generic as it gets in terms of play style. Your deck strategies aren't deep, they remind me more of core set drafts than not. Memorable as in this card wouldn't exist any where else at its cost and effect. Like Curse is a great example, but it doesn't have defining characteristic of the block. That's the problem with a lot of the cards in this block. Like you have your great designed cards like Heroes Downfall and Curse but honestly if you changed the names to Homicide and Swinemorph would you still say the same thing? That's what I mean, either the cards have great flavor or they have great effects, rarely do you have both. The Temples out of the block are probably the best, you scry at these places for guidance, and it's a pilgrimage so you spend time (hence the tapped ability). Ordeals are probably the second best, followed by the Gods. Like I read cards like Asphyxiate and I just wonder what about the untapped requirement makes sense, same goes for destroy target tapped. The Fated cycle makes a lot of sense here, but they are prohibitive to see Limited play. Instead of getting Heroes/Gods versus Monsters/Gods we got generic MtG Humans versus generic Monsters. No single color has a great identity except maybe Green (which makes sense given Green's propensity for giant creatures). Edit: The legendaries in this block is a prime example of this, none of them are memorable in terms of mechanics, like Annax and Cyamede is the only one that do what heroes would do, buff their allies. Like they could have made something like enchant legendaries only or have some direct interaction with the heroes to the non-legendaries to really get at the heroes versus everything else kind of vibe. I think your actual problem with the set is that it's top down rather than bottom up. It's not built around the mechanics but around the flavor. Top down is hit or miss, I loved Innistrad and it was as top down as you can get, but Theros isn't quite as good. All the cards are "how can we make X mythological creature/event into a card", rather than "Using these mechanics, how do we develop a Greek myth theme?" I'm personally OK with that. I mean to use Innistrad as an example, there were tons of cards specifically made for that block and its flavor that, with a simple rename, could fit anywhere. Case and point: the Skaabs. Screeching Skaab and Armored Skaab are blue creatures that mill you. 2/1 and 1/4 are not uncommon P/T combos. The reason they're there, however, is flavorful: you're cobbling together cards from your library into monsters, and it's practical: they feed graveyard strategies from elsewhere in the block. They can both be functionally reprinted in a core set with a graveyard mechanic and no one would bat an eye, but there's no way you'll see that particular card elsewhere. Same with Curse of the Swine. They can functionally reprint a blue card that polymorphs creatures, but it'll never be 2/2 green pigs and it'll never be called Curse of the Swine, that's particular to the Greek Myth of Theros. | ||
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