So I have had a lot of time on my hands and have been theory crafting starcraft 2 builds all day and have come up with this based on some zerg timings I found.
Build order (never skip scvs)
14 depot
15 rax
15 gas
19 gas
19 orbital
19 factory
start marine
@100% marine start tech lab
20 supply depot
@100% tech lab swap with factory
about 22-23 supply start cyclone when swapped
starport at 100 gas
Depots from this point need to be reactive
@100% cyclone get a tank
@100% starport get medivac
expand around 3:45 or about when the medivac is done
Send siege tank in medivac sieged and do harass
the rest of the build is a bit too complicated to type out...watch the video for a nice transition to move into.
On April 01 2015 16:02 LoneYoShi wrote: Sorry to be that guy, but shouldn't this be moved to the LotV sub-forum ?
I didnt know if people would be looking at the lotv forum for strategy guides....and I figured this still works to post here...if not then a mod can move this post to there
On April 01 2015 15:46 Gwavajuice wrote: Hmm I have some of question :
- Is there really a point anymore in delaying the second base so much? this push seems easily defendable by someone who goes for a greedy opening
- you don't have much defense, do you? are early repers an issue?
- wouldn't rax -> gaz give you a safer build with almost no delay on the push (and an earlier b2 too)?
- does this new economy make you feel like you're playing warcraft 3?
1)So zerg at 3min is going to be droning very hard if they play greedy...I looked at where zerg is in the game at 3 min when the cyclone comes out and I think the queens werent even done yet. If you can snipe a queen that would be huge...the cyclone is to be annoying pick off some units for the tank drop which is going for the economy. I think with good macro and micro you could get ahead by dropping 2 tanks and being aggressive while going for 3 cc behind it.
2)To answer early reapers is unclear since this build is really designed for zerg.
3)I dont understand the third question
4)And I never played warcraft 3 :/ I played a lot of bw but this new economy is crazy.
5)Lastly I dont know if this will be the meta but I think this build has a lot of potential so anyone with a legacy of the void closed beta should try this build in unranked and let me know how it goes I just like to theory craft and I dont think there is anything wrong trying to spark up some new ideas.
On April 01 2015 16:02 LoneYoShi wrote: Sorry to be that guy, but shouldn't this be moved to the LotV sub-forum ?
Moved to LotV Beta Discussion.
Would be nice to include more explanation in the OP of what the purpose of the build is. The video is nice, but people would rather read a TLDR and then check out the video for more info. The cyclone into tank drop seems interesting, but unless you actually score a queen kill or two with the cyclone, I don't think the tank drop will be very effective and can easily be held off with ~3 queens. Of course, this is all theorycraft.
On April 01 2015 16:02 LoneYoShi wrote: Sorry to be that guy, but shouldn't this be moved to the LotV sub-forum ?
Moved to LotV Beta Discussion.
Would be nice to include more explanation in the OP of what the purpose of the build is. The video is nice, but people would rather read a TLDR and then check out the video for more info. The cyclone into tank drop seems interesting, but unless you actually score a queen kill or two with the cyclone, I don't think the tank drop will be very effective and can easily be held off with ~3 queens. Of course, this is all theorycraft.
It's early days, but I predict meditank harass will be the new reaper opening in TvZ. It has the classic Terran opener hallmarks of being utterly fucking infuriating to deal with coupled with the potential to spiral out of control and end the game. If it goes well and you bag a queen, send over a banshee. Which will already have cloak.
(EDIT: Not balance whine. Zergs and Protoss have their own teeth-grindingly annoying qualities but "Lol I won with my opening harrass" is a quintessentially Terran trait)
On April 01 2015 16:02 LoneYoShi wrote: Sorry to be that guy, but shouldn't this be moved to the LotV sub-forum ?
Moved to LotV Beta Discussion.
Would be nice to include more explanation in the OP of what the purpose of the build is. The video is nice, but people would rather read a TLDR and then check out the video for more info. The cyclone into tank drop seems interesting, but unless you actually score a queen kill or two with the cyclone, I don't think the tank drop will be very effective and can easily be held off with ~3 queens. Of course, this is all theorycraft.
Of course I love this kind of discussion! Ofc I havent gotten to play vs real players so theory crafting right now is all I get to do while watching streams and using the offline version. I think the cyclone might be better vs zerg than I previously thought and I think there are many compositions terran can go for right now in tvz and win the game. I am unsure though which will be the most effective especially vs a good zerg player that knows what they are doing. I will do some more research with this and update this posts and possibly make a more detailed posts in the future that has a goal the build is trying to accomplish...I think I am going to actually make a comprehensive guide on timings in LoTV I have to do it eventually so might as well share my findings too!
And I am starting to see some new better timing opportunities...I will end up making an update to this post or making another one. This is theory crafting since I don't have beta so I am limited on trying this vs real players :/.
In the 'never cut SCV' section, the cyclone spawns at 2:57 and arrives at their base at 3:25, taking 28 seconds for distance.
In the 12/12/12 section, it spawns at 2:43 and arrives at 3:16, taking 33 seconds to do so. Why is there an extra 5 seconds here? Travel time should be the same, no?
Same applies for the banshee, it should take the same amount of time
Tangentially, I don't think cutting SCVs at the start of the game will be worth having your units there that much quicker, perhaps in TvT with tank drops, but that requires you to have constant attention on the siege tank/medivac, and to catch up in economy back at home
On April 03 2015 07:35 Jenia6109 wrote: You write about TvZ and make a video with TvT? I dont understand...
I mention in the video numerous times I am in the offline mode and that I cant control who I play agaisnt and make it clearly this is a build idea vs zerg
On April 03 2015 07:29 Jer99 wrote: In the 'never cut SCV' section, the cyclone spawns at 2:57 and arrives at their base at 3:25, taking 28 seconds for distance.
In the 12/12/12 section, it spawns at 2:43 and arrives at 3:16, taking 33 seconds to do so. Why is there an extra 5 seconds here? Travel time should be the same, no?
Same applies for the banshee, it should take the same amount of time
Tangentially, I don't think cutting SCVs at the start of the game will be worth having your units there that much quicker, perhaps in TvT with tank drops, but that requires you to have constant attention on the siege tank/medivac, and to catch up in economy back at home
Yes I did notice there was some changes in the amount of time of reaching acrossed the map...it would have to do with not sending it right away in some cases and the amount of time it takes to reach across a map will differ since the map size. I think the numbers are still fairly accurate. And I never supported cutting scvs and that was one of the reasons I am starting to find out timings to see if it is worth having units out earlier in this game and its proving to be a no so far. I did improve on a few of those numbers earlier. As I keep stating some of this is a work in progress and will give a more detailed update on my findings later on. Here is a updated version : http://puu.sh/h0cVe/b4e654206d.png