Hello TL! I'm WayTeh, ML Protoss player from Belarus. I did some videos in Russian, but if i get more audiotory, and people who wan't to see my videos in English, i will switch to ENG only... English not my main language, i learned it only in school, so it's "WhitRa" style mostly maybe a little better. Comments and your thoughts is apreciated.
So for todays "BUILD LIKE A PRO" i took 5 Stalker rush, build that Trap did many times. I don't like "9 pylon, 13 gate" style builds, because if you lose some probe (for exampleyour cat pressed ESC on keyboard) the build will differ. So i like it in style "B goes after A, if C then we make D".
9 Pylon 13 Gate (scout inbase) 15 Gas x2 (late placement) +(last 3-d chrono on probes) 17 Pylon (prepare to transfer 2 on each gas) 18 Cybernetics Core (~2:50 timer) 20 Gate (~3:20 timer) + transfer workers 3 on each gas (and don't make more than 15 on minerals) _________________________________________________ 3:50 you scouted theyr main make Mothership(scout outside base) + Stalker(scout natural) + WarpGateResearch (MSC chronoed) -pylon -> 2 stalkers (chronoed) Now make desicion what to do with stalkers. If there is danger of proxy DT/SG, leave 3 stalkers at mineral, place robo + 3d gate, go out with obs if no Oracle spoted. If the play standart , you go push with 3Stalker rush (beacause you stoped on 15 on minerals you 30/34 suply now, make 3-d gate way -> 2more stalkers , chrono warp once, make tech(robo/twillight) ~5:30 game time, try to force photon overcharge, and push with your 8 stalkers at 6:30)
More detailed and ingame footage of this build, check in the video!!!
On May 24 2015 10:52 Jer99 wrote: This sort of feels like an inferior version of this
Need we say inferior? It is interesting to compare the two, but the OP was kind enough to prepare a guide video for the community.
As much as I encourage community content, I don't believe in bad content being spread within the community. Here's a quick list of things that I found wrong within the video:
scroll speed not max
not rallying workers to clostest patch
using a worker on close mineral patch to make a pylon
late on sending two workers on second gas
So that was a list of things that I found wrong within the first two minutes. So yes, we do need to say inferior, because literally everything about this build is inferior to the 8 stalker 5 zealot push. That push hits harder, faster, with more units, albeit with less defense (that you need since you are on the aggressive).
That build is from 2010 which means that it was done before warpgate was nerfed. Right now you would never be able to hit those timings. It's very all inish, while the OP's is a pretty solid reactive build, and it's designed to punish any greedy opening while also having double gas saturation and a mothership core at home to counter oracles/dts. I've also never seen the "8 stalkers 5 zealot rush" in competitive play while the 2 gate into 3 gate pressure actually exists, although it's not very common.
On May 24 2015 10:52 Jer99 wrote: This sort of feels like an inferior version of this
Need we say inferior? It is interesting to compare the two, but the OP was kind enough to prepare a guide video for the community.
As much as I encourage community content, I don't believe in bad content being spread within the community. Here's a quick list of things that I found wrong within the video:
scroll speed not max
not rallying workers to clostest patch
using a worker on close mineral patch to make a pylon
scout for proxy after gateway is droppped - useless
late on sending two workers on second gas
So that was a list of things that I found wrong within the first two minutes. So yes, we do need to say inferior, because literally everything about this build is inferior to the 8 stalker 5 zealot push. That push hits harder, faster, with more units, albeit with less defense (that you need since you are on the aggressive).
at the risk of further derailing this thread: why is ist useless to scout after gateway?
On May 24 2015 10:52 Jer99 wrote: This sort of feels like an inferior version of this
Need we say inferior? It is interesting to compare the two, but the OP was kind enough to prepare a guide video for the community.
scroll speed not max
What? Wait, What?!!
It's a minor detail, but still something that can be improved on. Imagine if you are getting dropped, and you scroll from your natural to your main with that speed, that's the difference between losing a couple of workers, and many more, which is definitely relevant.
Attack should hit at the 8 minute mark with 28/ 29 probes, 10 stalkers and a mothership core. Good for pvt/ pvp. If you scout quick reaper, start stalker and mothership core before twilight council. Chrono Boost should be
3 Nexus 2 Cybernetics Core Rest on Twilight Council
On May 25 2015 00:22 dr3am_b3ing wrote: Hey guys just came up with a pretty cool blink stalker all in
Great for Bronze/ Silver League
Bronze/Silver will do it too slow, so they will die to any DT's etc. It's preety standart blink build, played in PvT, but 1 CB on Warp, 1 on Stalker to deflect scout, and rest on twillight.
and it's standart opener for PvP, just Robo instead of 4-th gate, and it's normal build for not diying to random DT"s and else shinanigans
P.S. So i got ~100 views. Guys , please tell me : 1) is this video helped someone? 2) or at lease, you want me to make more? 3) or it's just a waste of time, useless stuff from a noskill guy
On May 24 2015 10:52 Jer99 wrote: This sort of feels like an inferior version of this
Need we say inferior? It is interesting to compare the two, but the OP was kind enough to prepare a guide video for the community.
scroll speed not max
What? Wait, What?!!
It's a minor detail, but still something that can be improved on. Imagine if you are getting dropped, and you scroll from your natural to your main with that speed, that's the difference between losing a couple of workers, and many more, which is definitely relevant.
Wouldn't it be faster to just use camera location hotkeys? Also, isn't it more popular to do so anyway? I thought even with max scrolling speed it's just less efficient to scroll from base to base instead of using camera location hotkeys.
On May 24 2015 10:52 Jer99 wrote: This sort of feels like an inferior version of this
Need we say inferior? It is interesting to compare the two, but the OP was kind enough to prepare a guide video for the community.
scroll speed not max
What? Wait, What?!!
It's a minor detail, but still something that can be improved on. Imagine if you are getting dropped, and you scroll from your natural to your main with that speed, that's the difference between losing a couple of workers, and many more, which is definitely relevant.
People use scrolling for moving from base to base ?
Jer99, what league are you? Camera locations bro. You're nitpicking like you're a gm and that this was something more than a quick n easy guide for an early game build. Bringing a 2010 build as a useful metric is also kinda silly.
If I was in need of some easy earlygame builds for PvP this would be the sort of thing i'd look for. The good\great players probably already sits with a notepad while watching SPL which I would assume isn't the target audience.
Not gonna become a sub (ML Z, no time for off-racing) but I support this sort of content because 1. we're not exactly drowning in content 2. I could see this sort of stuff being useful if I wanted to give protoss a go.
Optimizing I can do, but sometimes all you need is the quick broad picture with some milestones and crossroads.
On May 25 2015 10:56 flipstar wrote: Jer99, what league are you? Camera locations bro. You're nitpicking like you're a gm and that this was something more than a quick n easy guide for an early game build. Bringing a 2010 build as a useful metric is also kinda silly.
If I was in need of some easy earlygame builds for PvP this would be the sort of thing i'd look for. The good\great players probably already sits with a notepad while watching SPL which I would assume isn't the target audience.
Not gonna become a sub (ML Z, no time for off-racing) but I support this sort of content because 1. we're not exactly drowning in content 2. I could see this sort of stuff being useful if I wanted to give protoss a go.
Optimizing I can do, but sometimes all you need is the quick broad picture with some milestones and crossroads.
On May 25 2015 10:56 flipstar wrote: Jer99, what league are you? Camera locations bro. You're nitpicking like you're a gm and that this was something more than a quick n easy guide for an early game build. Bringing a 2010 build as a useful metric is also kinda silly.
If I was in need of some easy earlygame builds for PvP this would be the sort of thing i'd look for. The good\great players probably already sits with a notepad while watching SPL which I would assume isn't the target audience.
Not gonna become a sub (ML Z, no time for off-racing) but I support this sort of content because 1. we're not exactly drowning in content 2. I could see this sort of stuff being useful if I wanted to give protoss a go.
Optimizing I can do, but sometimes all you need is the quick broad picture with some milestones and crossroads.
This is true, I was being too nitpicky
It's ok Video is just to showcase some builds that PRO players do, and it really don't require all this stuff to hit the timing's, with optimisation you told (mineral / camera hotkeys) i think it's possible to win ~10 seconds, it's preety much, but it's also difers on map. And i wished to play slower than i play normal, for some guys who is starters. Because fast scroling through locations, with map always on different spots every second, some guys wouldn't understand a bit of this video Anyway , thx for your comments! And i planning, on adding some text invideo in next episode, with supply/timings.
I don't mind guides aimed a bi below GM level, but what bugs me increasingly with all these guides is the poorly concealed self advertisement. :/
This OP: - 2 paragraphs about himself. - 1 spoilered paragraph with the build. - Link to his youtube channel for more details.
What a guide should be: - 1 paragraph introduction about the build. What the aims are. - The BO. - comments on why you do some things in the build, things to think about and how to adapt to what you scout. - Weaknesses of the build: when not to do it. - What maps it's good/bad on. - Link to replays with the build, preferably both winning and losing and covering a range of opponent builds. - Optional link to pros doing the build. - Optional video guide (all information in the guide should also be in the text). - Optional spoilered information about the OP.
Nonetheless, thanks for putting in the time! Hope I inspired you to do a better one next time around rather than take you down.
^I'll agree with this, even if I defended the existence of the video.
Guides such as this will almost always beat a quick youtube video and I can understand that people who's grown used to that level of quality\quantity of info will find this 'guide' a bit shitty, and that it's more of a self-promotion thingy than a proper effort to help the community.
On May 25 2015 17:23 Cascade wrote: I don't mind guides aimed a bi below GM level, but what bugs me increasingly with all these guides is the poorly concealed self advertisement. :/
This OP: - 2 paragraphs about himself. - 1 spoilered paragraph with the build. - Link to his youtube channel for more details.
What a guide should be: - 1 paragraph introduction about the build. What the aims are. - The BO. - comments on why you do some things in the build, things to think about and how to adapt to what you scout. - Weaknesses of the build: when not to do it. - What maps it's good/bad on. - Link to replays with the build, preferably both winning and losing and covering a range of opponent builds. - Optional link to pros doing the build. - Optional video guide (all information in the guide should also be in the text). - Optional spoilered information about the OP.
Nonetheless, thanks for putting in the time! Hope I inspired you to do a better one next time around rather than take you down.
Exactly what i need! My goal to give some guys helpfull info, and builds is nice start. And i like to make some video stuff, and practice my english .
I will use all your points, in my next BO, Thank's for advices!
I really enjoyed it... You kept it simple at first, then went back and explained some ways you can derive from the regular build order after, so the video was a good balance of detail vs simplicity.. Your English is more than fine too!
The nitpicking on stuff like scroll speed is just ridiculous for a tutorial, this isn't a stream, you don't want to see screens zipping around left right and centre as he's trying to teach people. This is also a descent build for most levels and leaves you prEpared for a lot, so not sure why people are trying to compare it to extremely outdated all-ins...
In all, I'd love to see more of your work for other match ups , maybe a bit more polished, but you're on the right track. Definitely work on the text part of it though, making your threads appealing is huge