May be some1 will find it useful.
And 2 interesting games with adept fenix
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dargul
Russian Federation125 Posts
May be some1 will find it useful. And 2 interesting games with adept fenix | ||
Pursuit_
United States1329 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + TY vs Parting at DH Winter really showed this dynamic off in my opinion. TY's go to strategy was a fast 3 cc into bio liberator, and when paying tried to keep up in economy and play for the long game he lost. Parting still end up winning the series, but on the back of constant harassment rather than deathballs. | ||
SolidZeal
United States393 Posts
On November 28 2015 23:22 Pursuit_ wrote: TY vs Parting at DH Winter really showed this dynamic off in my opinion. TY's go to strategy was a fast 3 cc into bio liberator, and when paying tried to keep up in economy and play for the long game he lost. Parting still end up winning the series, but on the back of constant harassment rather than deathballs. spoilers you jerk | ||
BigAsia
Canada451 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1329 Posts
On November 29 2015 00:40 SolidZeal wrote: Show nested quote + On November 28 2015 23:22 Pursuit_ wrote: TY vs Parting at DH Winter really showed this dynamic off in my opinion. TY's go to strategy was a fast 3 cc into bio liberator, and when paying tried to keep up in economy and play for the long game he lost. Parting still end up winning the series, but on the back of constant harassment rather than deathballs. spoilers you jerk Sorry, but my understanding is that TL is not a spoiler free zone? Just getting on the main page runs spoiler risk. On November 29 2015 01:05 BigAsia wrote: terran in a great place with a ~28.1% (vs other races) win rate a dreamhack. TY and Bomber getting beat by Westerners and the Western Terrans go a combined 8-36. Don't think one tournment is a great indicator of balance, especially when the game is still being figured out. I think it's generally accepted that Z > P / T atm though. | ||
crbox
Canada1176 Posts
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MvS.MiKE
Sweden15 Posts
Now the standard in most of my games, protosses goes stalker heavy with a few collossus and a few disruptors. With the nerfed marauder you can't punish a toss for blinking farward sniping medivacs and/or libs. And as a terran you can't take a straight up fight since you gotta micro back/ split like a god vs the disruptor balls of death. The push is extreamly strong considering you cant do ealy pressure and punish the greed from protoss because of the pylon overcharge. So their economy is stronger, 2nd and 3rd base comes way sooner then terran's. Adding the nasty warpprism, that can't be killed. Even if you got a viking or two with turrets, there will still be adepts in your mineral line. In other words, the tvp matup is heavy in favor of protoss, the key things beeing; 1) T can't punish P's greed. 2) Warpprism, making T not able to push out. 3) Marauder nerf. The longer the game goes on stalkers are even better vs MMM. Even if you do have some libs, blink stalkers trade way to good. When blinking forward to snipe terran tech units (vikings/medivacs/libs). Since protoss can take the engade and not really be afraid of a marauder ball since they dont do that much dmg anymore especially if they are upgraded. This is not whining btw. But its really frustrating, when you can't even trade well. I can take the fact that i can't punish P's greed. I can learn to handle the warpprism better even tho its super strong. But the marauder nerf was to big, i don't know the reasoning behind it, but that is the key thing that i would want a revert of, and see if i can trade better, because now, a good trade is just not gonna happen. | ||
Pursuit_
United States1329 Posts
On November 29 2015 04:21 crbox wrote: That's a very over simplified analysis of the match up. There's nothing preventing the protosses from building HT / Disruptor / Tempest super army while playing super defensive. It's not like liberators are this unbeatable units, you guys have supreme capital ship potential. You still play bio up to ~3 base, dont really start heavy liberator production until 4+ bases. If your opponent goes straight for HT / Disruptor / Tempest you'll wreck them with your bio army. Terran can transition into Liberators much faster and easier than Protoss can transition into Tempest. Even then, Terran has a pretty big advantage vs Tempest / Disruptor / HT with Bio Liberator IMO, because it's easy to transition into Viking production when you're making Liberators and you can always go for big doom drops while leaving the liberators + some bio at home to defend. I'm not arguing that Terran is at an advantage in the matchup atm, I'm arguing that late game favors Terran a lot more now while early-mid game favors Protoss. Before in TvP, getting behind in mid game was basically a death sentence, being behind in economy was a position you never wanted to be in. Now I don't think it's as critical. Obviously you can let your opponent go for something silly like 3 nexus off 1 gate straight into tempest / ht production, just like Protoss couldn't let terran get away with 1 rax 3cc double eng bay in HotS. | ||
Ktk
Korea (South)753 Posts
(I won't offer any spoilers as to what happened in that game or who won that game) | ||
Lexender
Mexico2611 Posts
On November 24 2015 06:36 dargul wrote: I have made small test how adepts work agains mmm May be some1 will find it useful. https://youtu.be/8psEu4HFgaE Add a single sentry to that and see the results | ||
StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 29 2015 00:40 SolidZeal wrote: Show nested quote + On November 28 2015 23:22 Pursuit_ wrote: TY vs Parting at DH Winter really showed this dynamic off in my opinion. TY's go to strategy was a fast 3 cc into bio liberator, and when paying tried to keep up in economy and play for the long game he lost. Parting still end up winning the series, but on the back of constant harassment rather than deathballs. spoilers you jerk Don't go into a strategy discussion section if you are not willing to be spoiled on the latest games at a professional level. I mean... the fact that this has to be explained baffles me. | ||
DerFreemind
Germany45 Posts
On November 29 2015 04:24 MvS.MiKE wrote: I started out by liking the matchup, but that was because protosses were just bad and didn't know what too do. Now the standard in most of my games, protosses goes stalker heavy with a few collossus and a few disruptors. With the nerfed marauder you can't punish a toss for blinking farward sniping medivacs and/or libs. And as a terran you can't take a straight up fight since you gotta micro back/ split like a god vs the disruptor balls of death. The push is extreamly strong considering you cant do ealy pressure and punish the greed from protoss because of the pylon overcharge. So their economy is stronger, 2nd and 3rd base comes way sooner then terran's. Adding the nasty warpprism, that can't be killed. Even if you got a viking or two with turrets, there will still be adepts in your mineral line. In other words, the tvp matup is heavy in favor of protoss, the key things beeing; 1) T can't punish P's greed. 2) Warpprism, making T not able to push out. 3) Marauder nerf. The longer the game goes on stalkers are even better vs MMM. Even if you do have some libs, blink stalkers trade way to good. When blinking forward to snipe terran tech units (vikings/medivacs/libs). Since protoss can take the engade and not really be afraid of a marauder ball since they dont do that much dmg anymore especially if they are upgraded. This is not whining btw. But its really frustrating, when you can't even trade well. I can take the fact that i can't punish P's greed. I can learn to handle the warpprism better even tho its super strong. But the marauder nerf was to big, i don't know the reasoning behind it, but that is the key thing that i would want a revert of, and see if i can trade better, because now, a good trade is just not gonna happen. 100% agree! On top on that, there is storm. If the toss is slow pushing with stalker, HT and Disrupter, have fun engangeing that army or ever so attacking. Than there are sooo many 1 base all ins, even really silly stuff with proxy 3 pylons into proxy stargate. I am a Dia Terran, TvZ 65%, TvT 70% and TvP 18%...! This match up makes my blood boil right now. | ||
MvS.MiKE
Sweden15 Posts
On November 30 2015 02:47 DerFreemind wrote: Show nested quote + On November 29 2015 04:24 MvS.MiKE wrote: I started out by liking the matchup, but that was because protosses were just bad and didn't know what too do. Now the standard in most of my games, protosses goes stalker heavy with a few collossus and a few disruptors. With the nerfed marauder you can't punish a toss for blinking farward sniping medivacs and/or libs. And as a terran you can't take a straight up fight since you gotta micro back/ split like a god vs the disruptor balls of death. The push is extreamly strong considering you cant do ealy pressure and punish the greed from protoss because of the pylon overcharge. So their economy is stronger, 2nd and 3rd base comes way sooner then terran's. Adding the nasty warpprism, that can't be killed. Even if you got a viking or two with turrets, there will still be adepts in your mineral line. In other words, the tvp matup is heavy in favor of protoss, the key things beeing; 1) T can't punish P's greed. 2) Warpprism, making T not able to push out. 3) Marauder nerf. The longer the game goes on stalkers are even better vs MMM. Even if you do have some libs, blink stalkers trade way to good. When blinking forward to snipe terran tech units (vikings/medivacs/libs). Since protoss can take the engade and not really be afraid of a marauder ball since they dont do that much dmg anymore especially if they are upgraded. This is not whining btw. But its really frustrating, when you can't even trade well. I can take the fact that i can't punish P's greed. I can learn to handle the warpprism better even tho its super strong. But the marauder nerf was to big, i don't know the reasoning behind it, but that is the key thing that i would want a revert of, and see if i can trade better, because now, a good trade is just not gonna happen. 100% agree! On top on that, there is storm. If the toss is slow pushing with stalker, HT and Disrupter, have fun engangeing that army or ever so attacking. Than there are sooo many 1 base all ins, even really silly stuff with proxy 3 pylons into proxy stargate. I am a Dia Terran, TvZ 65%, TvT 70% and TvP 18%...! This match up makes my blood boil right now. I find templar easier to deal with, since T got faster ghosts now, but it's all up to good EMP's since the snipe is useless vs toss. Before the stalker, disruptor etc pushes started, protosses went for templar / gateway armys. That was alot more fun to play against. The staler/robo army is so much stronger, since u need so many counters, and on top of that good micro. I don't find the early game BS to be that hard to deal with, since im pretty much always opening with a fast factory into cyclone with the upgrade. Atleast then u can snipe the "normal" harrasing adepts, maybe even get a stlker or a MSC plus it counters oracle pretty hard( even though you will always lose a worker or two vs an oracle). Problem with the fast cyclone is that you need too get some good kills with it. It's 150/150 and 100/100 for the cyclone and upgrade, and your expand will be delayed alot. | ||
dargul
Russian Federation125 Posts
On November 29 2015 20:20 StarscreamG1 wrote: Where you get that map for unit testing dargul? just search for unit tester in arcade | ||
dargul
Russian Federation125 Posts
On November 29 2015 12:37 Lexender wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 06:36 dargul wrote: I have made small test how adepts work agains mmm May be some1 will find it useful. https://youtu.be/8psEu4HFgaE Add a single sentry to that and see the results sentry can't blink in the middle of mmm. Without such blink mmm work rather well because of greater atk range | ||
BabelFish1
186 Posts
PO+Adept drops make terran have a hard time but if terran makes it to late game, or even later in the mid game mass liberators+PFs everywhere make the game almost unwinnable. PO and Liberators are both gonna get nerfed then I think we'll see some equilibrium with a slightly favored Protoss early game and a slightly favored Terran mid game with dead even late game. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On December 01 2015 11:42 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think the matchup has flipped. Protoss lategame is still favored once they get tempests out. So same as always try to win in the midgame. When there are no tempests liberators are incredibly strong, maybe even op. Also the colossus-storm-disruptor army is nowhere near as hopeless against terran as ghost-viiking was against protoss. Terran has a small advantage in army that can snowball into a larger one but a good protoss player can keep the liberator count down and still retain the ability to take winning fights. | ||
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