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On August 02 2016 08:12 coL.hendralisk wrote: Interesting.. surely both sides cant both be telling the truth on this issue
something def seems off...
on a side note, where the hell have you been??
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School, csgo, overwatch in that order
Been on a break since I lost to drunkenboi for a wcs qualifier I think, early 2015 damn time flies
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On August 02 2016 14:49 coL.hendralisk wrote: School, csgo, overwatch in that order
Been on a break since I lost to drunkenboi for a wcs qualifier I think, early 2015 damn time flies
I honestly miss your SC2 stream tbh ( But gl with school!
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On August 02 2016 13:06 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 11:35 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 01 2016 21:19 LongShot27 wrote:On August 01 2016 19:35 FireCake wrote:On August 01 2016 19:18 LongShot27 wrote: Man esports competitors are really really naive across all games. STOP LETTING OTHER PEOPLE HANDLE YOUR PRIZE MONEY. If your team demands individual prizes be handled by them you need to know theyre gonna take it. Sucks for gumiho. Many progamers prefer that their team gets the prizemoney directly then send it back to them... Because if tournament organizer gives you the money directly they have to pay tax and you get less money in the process. But if tournament organizer gives the money directly to your organization they don't pay taxes and you will in the end get all your prize money. I never really understand why but this is how it works. You still have to pay taxes it's just taxed differently. Instead of an "award/winnings/bonus" whatever they call it in each country tax. If your organization who is your employer pays you it just goes under income tax which for most people in most places will be lower than taking it directly. And the organization has to pay tax when they receive it so usually the roughly same amount of money is taken out in taxes, you've just created a middle man, who often in this case just takes everything. It's a myth that there's a higher winnings / bonus tax than simple income tax, at least in the United States. If this were truly the case, people would just request increased salaries (for a temporary time) in order to obtain the increased income. Bonuses are taxed no different than ordinary income, same with other awards / winnings, such as the lottery. More may be withheld originally, which may make it seem less, but you get it back when you file your taxes. Except when you win money in the united states and live in a foreign country? Are you getting it now?
As in, they pretend they never won the money and just get paid salary elsewhere? Illegal and wouldn't hold up for a second in court, but if that's the insinuation, I do imagine it would be incredibly hard to track or pursue by the IRS. Perhaps even in the same bucket as "pay sales tax for items you order online Newegg" (assuming you don't live in CA or NJ that actually charge it upfront).
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On August 02 2016 14:49 coL.hendralisk wrote: School, csgo, overwatch in that order
Been on a break since I lost to drunkenboi for a wcs qualifier I think, early 2015 damn time flies
cool. i enjoyed watching u play and will watch again if u ever decide to return. gl in life!
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On August 02 2016 08:34 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:58 stuchiu wrote:On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote: You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. I imagine g2a was also nice and generous to work with. This is why I take nothing BASETRADETV says anymore seriously
Hi, although this is off-topic, could you please elaborate, e.g. through pm?
I've heard shady stuff about g2a (stolen keys reselling, used for money laundering - but no idea how actively g2a tries to benefit from it or if it's a by-product), but my main concern is that a lot of streamers/organizations (like French O'Gaming) have deals with g2a.
Is there, and of what kind, explicit pressure exacted besides the usual, contractual, sponsoring clauses?
I mean, it's one thing to dislike personalities/behaviours - that seems to be the case in this thread for Rifkin and Demuslim - but if it's due to borderline activities, that's more worrying.
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On August 02 2016 10:35 Kafka777 wrote:Show nested quote +In this case it doesn't matter if you have a contract. The sum that is in play means that if you get actual lawyers to hold someone to the contract you are losing out on thousands more dollars Not necessarily. Lawyers are available for a percentage of money awarded. You can claim damages for fraud. All in all you can get back your money with a bonus and the lawyer will be fat. That's not likely. This isnt the type of case that is going to be lucrative for contingency fees.
The BEST BEST case scenario is the lawyer gets rewarded attorney's fees. The whole point of attorney's fees is to inventicize attorneys taking on work thats not lucrative but still pursuing some justice for low-stakes stuff. That being said, international law, this might just be a huge clusterfuck not worth anyone's time.
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On August 01 2016 18:02 KappaKingPrime wrote: Has Harstem received HomeStory Cup prize money?
Not yet - had a few busy days but he received a document he can fill in (bank account etc) and we will obviously pay to him and only him as soon as we get the document back
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Austria24413 Posts
On August 02 2016 18:12 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2016 18:02 KappaKingPrime wrote: Has Harstem received HomeStory Cup prize money? Not yet - had a few busy days but he received a document he can fill in (bank account etc) and we will obviously pay to him and only him as soon as we get the document back
Thanks for your transparency, can't have enough of that.
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On August 02 2016 08:34 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:58 stuchiu wrote:On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote: You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one https://twitter.com/Rif_kingz/status/760194273262247936not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. I imagine g2a was also nice and generous to work with. This is why I take nothing BASETRADETV says anymore seriously
Please don't mistake Rifkin's words for everyone on BaseTradeTV.
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On August 02 2016 18:25 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 18:12 NarutO wrote:On August 01 2016 18:02 KappaKingPrime wrote: Has Harstem received HomeStory Cup prize money? Not yet - had a few busy days but he received a document he can fill in (bank account etc) and we will obviously pay to him and only him as soon as we get the document back Thanks for your transparency, can't have enough of that. Yeah, always nice to see Naruto posting organization updates.
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can someone update the op ? can't find infos in 200+ posts
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On August 02 2016 19:58 SuperHofmann wrote: can someone update the op ? can't find infos in 200+ posts yeah it would be nice to Update OP this is kinda crazy we need a first look with the most important infos in the OP
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On August 02 2016 13:13 CometNine wrote:Re: Lawyers...hahaha. Quite Frankly, this case is too small to be worth anyone's time. I think nearly every Lawyer that is qualified to look into this dispute will charge more than the money that's missing. If something like this happened in New Zealand - you'd go to what we call the disputes tribunal to handle cases that are under NZD$15,000 (or NZD$20,000 if both parties agree to it). I imagine that both Switzerland and Korea have something similar in place to handle small monetary disputes. Besides, given the pictures we've seen - I highly doubt that either side has contracts that will hold up in a court. ----- FireCake mentioned earlier in the thread about why players choose their teams/organisations to receive the money on their behalf. I think I can answer that from a Taxation point of view (as I work as a Tax Accountant that specialises in filing Resident Tax returns with foreign Income). If the eSports organisations like Dreamhack or IEM pays the prize money directly to the winners then they might be liable to pay a form Withholding Tax (WT) to their respective Tax Department (in the native country) before paying a net amount to winner. By Dreamhack paying the winnings to an organisation (like a team) there's probably a way to bypass this WT requirement (company to company transactions are seen as "business transactions" and any "profits" are taxed once the Operating Profit for said company is calculated) so the team receives the entire gross payment of prize money. The team then pays their Player in the form of a bonus or extra payment with the correct amount of Tax Deducted in the Player's Home country. This way there's less work for the player involved when it comes to calculating the tax that they need to pay at the end of the tax year and worry about double taxation agreements between countries, what's available as tax credits in the player's resident country and so forth. Also there's potential for Tax Credits to get lost if the WT deductions are higher than the Player's Home Country's Tax rate. Here in NZ the WT tax rate is higher than our lowest PAYE/PAYG Salary Tax rate. If anyone is interested, I can provide a detailed example of the benefits of having money go through a company as opposed to a person for tax purposes. Just let me know somewhere below or PM me. ----- In light of all of this, I hope that Harstem doesn't get caught out with any tax issues given the shady stuff we've caught glimpses today. I think the original agreements were done in Good Faith but Sebou is probably too young, too inexperienced and never thought through his decisions with the Korean Teams / Personnel. Maybe he was one overly enthusiastic fan that bit off more than he could chew. Sadly though, this seems like another Quantic/LYGF episode... I don't know much about the Choya/MLG thing - but I think he should have been a bit more cautious after that incident especially with foreign money. For those of you that say Choya is greedy - try to remember he's running an organisation. He needs to pay his players, cover household costs and its no secret that MVP lack significant sponsors to comfortably cover all of this. Put yourself in his shoes and think about how, you would feel if you had employees that you couldn't pay and that you deeply cared about them? Makes me wonder if it would make sense for a reliable, long-standing organisation like TL or other big teams to provide payment to players without a reliable team for a reasonable fee.
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On August 02 2016 04:12 Necro)Phagist( wrote: To summarize.
Choya has time stamped conversations, Sebou/AngryDemu have a suspiciously photoshopped looking 'conversation' with no time stamps or anything.
Choya has Legend on his side and evidence of previously shady shit, Sebou has a washed out ladder rage guy backing him up.
Hmmm tough call on who to believe in this one boys...
this must be part of the OP
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=ca0acebecc8bb7c9ab996940c4a1c7216ae2f320.55003
the amount of excuses to not pay.
incredible.
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On August 02 2016 18:42 olimoley wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 08:34 LongShot27 wrote:On August 02 2016 07:58 stuchiu wrote:On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote: You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one https://twitter.com/Rif_kingz/status/760194273262247936not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. I imagine g2a was also nice and generous to work with. This is why I take nothing BASETRADETV says anymore seriously Please don't mistake Rifkin's words for everyone on BaseTradeTV.
NOT HATING: Is there like a petition or something going on to replace Rifkin? I personally just cannot stand his talking and "casting", while Zombiegrub is actually pretty nice to watch, as she has great game knowledge and does not behave so arrogant and sometimes even rude to cocasters. But Rifkin makes it so bad I don't watch BT anymore. I actually heard the same thing from some more people, who would really like to see Zombiegrub cast with someone else, which would make a really great cast.
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On August 02 2016 10:48 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 10:35 Kafka777 wrote:In this case it doesn't matter if you have a contract. The sum that is in play means that if you get actual lawyers to hold someone to the contract you are losing out on thousands more dollars Not necessarily. Lawyers are available for a percentage of money awarded. You can claim damages for fraud. All in all you can get back your money with a bonus and the lawyer will be fat. so a lawyer is gonna waste tens of hours to get some hundreds of dollars for this? Here's a link to the only esportslawy guy out there doing this sort of work. States the economics don't make taking up this case viable. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4vmg6q/legend_exsbenuafreeca_coach_talks_about_invasion/d600z7l Lawyers won't get involved with a handshake deal, which is what this sounds like to me. I would LOVE to be proved wrong and there actually be a legit, signed contract.
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On August 02 2016 22:07 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 10:48 stuchiu wrote:On August 02 2016 10:35 Kafka777 wrote:In this case it doesn't matter if you have a contract. The sum that is in play means that if you get actual lawyers to hold someone to the contract you are losing out on thousands more dollars Not necessarily. Lawyers are available for a percentage of money awarded. You can claim damages for fraud. All in all you can get back your money with a bonus and the lawyer will be fat. so a lawyer is gonna waste tens of hours to get some hundreds of dollars for this? Here's a link to the only esportslawy guy out there doing this sort of work. States the economics don't make taking up this case viable. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4vmg6q/legend_exsbenuafreeca_coach_talks_about_invasion/d600z7l Lawyers won't get involved with a handshake deal, which is what this sounds like to me. I would LOVE to be proved wrong and there actually be a legit, signed contract.
Sounds like there wasn't a legit contract. Players need to learn to not accept cash and make sure there is always a trail. They need to learn to protect themselves. While it's great and all to have lawyers who may be willing to take up a case after the fact, a lot of wrongdoing can be easily prevented with education of the players.
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On August 02 2016 11:07 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:People are entitled to make a living out of their hard work. Especially when they are passionate about sc2...
sc2 as an esport is an entertainment industry which means your entitlement to make a living is directly linked to your ability to promote and sell your talent. if you're a bad actor you're not entitled to free money because no one will cast you
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Everybody is wrong and owe me 5,000 $.
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