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Personally the most frustrating thing about toss is how timing dependent it is. Both on offence and defense.
Imagine playing a game where you lose after 4-5 mins because your warp gate was late by 10 seconds. It is as if the first 5 mins didn't matter.
Protoss has always been this way but LoTV being faster means those windows are now smaller. In the past that equivalent window may have been 30 seconds. Now it's 10 seconds.
Personally the number of games where I've lost PvT to 1-1-1 pushes because warp gate finished at 3.10 instead of 3.0 and therefore you can't stop them just walking up and seiging the first tank outside your natural.
Or your transition to counter lurkers is 10 seconds late and they've walked up and seiged ur 3rd/4th and you're forced to engage and basically lose.
Anyway, my point being I can see why so many people are frustrated playing toss and have quit.
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I just had a PvZ, with a lot of harass from the start, adepts, oracles, runbys, risky expansions, immortals, colossus, phoenix. But then 10 lurkers happened.
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On October 25 2016 06:57 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2016 23:51 DinoMight wrote:On October 22 2016 06:13 phodacbiet wrote:On October 22 2016 05:16 Damusson wrote:On October 18 2016 13:57 The_Frozen_Inferno wrote: I have no evidence or memes to back this up either way . . .
But wouldn't that be something if the primary reason that there are fewer protoss on the ladder is because years of community [trololol, protoss a-move, dishonourable, cheezy-gimmicky coin-flip no-skill, ezrace op/imba race] toxicity has actually created a chilling effect on players that has effectively 'race-shamed' players out of playing protoss openly on the ladder?
I mean if you got flamed and bombarded with what in other contexts might border on being something close to a hate crime just because you played protoss, you might either quit or race-switch rather than put up with that social experience. While maybe not the primary reason for not playing anymore, I do know someone who was getting tired of all the "lol toss so ez" and "no skill race" comments when he beat people. He didn't even cheese, mostly just tried to play standard macro games. To be fair though, almost everyone on ladder thinks this way. I get flamed all the time by all races when I play random *shrug*. The majority of our community thinks their race is the hardest/most skilled, while the race they are playing against is ez 1a brainless race. People will distort/use incorrect statistics in any way possible to show why their race sucks and how that's the only thing that is holding them back from winning 5 gsls or hit GM. It's a lot easier to blame race/david kim than to fix your own problems. I don't think Protoss players quit because they get flamed, because every race gets flamed when they win lol. I actually stopped plaing for a while because of this. When I would win, Protoss EZ OP race go fuck yourself etc. When I would lose, OMG HOW CAN YOU LOSE you're playing the BS OP Race you're so shit omg. Every. single. game. It just made the whole game miserable. I understand where you're coming from, but honestly, you shouldn't quit because of that reason. It's one of the most silliest reasons for why you would quit the game. Just mute the guy and move on. All races get this. Play Zerg or Terran and the same thing will happen whenever you win (luls infestor/bl OP, luls Liberator a move ez unit, etc). People who complain, especially on ladder, should just be ignored because they are tilted after the recent loss and will blame it on everything and everyone else but themselves. Find joy in the salt. Whenever someone rage at me on ladder, and I end up facing them again, I always cheese because it's just hilarious to see them rage.
You are wrong. I muted a whole lot of people. It gets tiring quickly. I also had to regularly make space on my blocklist because it was (and probably still is) limited to about 160 slots. All this toxicity without the ability to block all of the chat in addition to the stupid design that is Protoss, which apparently got even worse, made me quit like half a year before LotV.
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On October 25 2016 09:32 StarscreamG1 wrote: I just had a PvZ, with a lot of harass from the start, adepts, oracles, runbys, risky expansions, immortals, colossus, phoenix. But then 10 lurkers happened.
10 lurkers cost 1500/1500.
So while you did all that, you apparently did it so inefficiently, zerg banked 1500/1500 to make 10 lurkers.
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On October 25 2016 09:11 Dracover wrote: Personally the most frustrating thing about toss is how timing dependent it is. Both on offence and defense.
Imagine playing a game where you lose after 4-5 mins because your warp gate was late by 10 seconds. It is as if the first 5 mins didn't matter.
Protoss has always been this way but LoTV being faster means those windows are now smaller. In the past that equivalent window may have been 30 seconds. Now it's 10 seconds.
Personally the number of games where I've lost PvT to 1-1-1 pushes because warp gate finished at 3.10 instead of 3.0 and therefore you can't stop them just walking up and seiging the first tank outside your natural.
Or your transition to counter lurkers is 10 seconds late and they've walked up and seiged ur 3rd/4th and you're forced to engage and basically lose.
Anyway, my point being I can see why so many people are frustrated playing toss and have quit.
That's true for every race.
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On October 25 2016 09:32 StarscreamG1 wrote: I just had a PvZ, with a lot of harass from the start, adepts, oracles, runbys, risky expansions, immortals, colossus, phoenix. But then 10 lurkers happened.
Disruptor is a must. No other choice. Running head on into lurkers is free gg.
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Protoss left to become Hanzo mains in OW
LUL
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On October 25 2016 09:32 StarscreamG1 wrote: I just had a PvZ, with a lot of harass from the start, adepts, oracles, runbys, risky expansions, immortals, colossus, phoenix. But then 10 lurkers happened. Reminds me of a game yesterday. Guy had me dead to rights. I thought he was going stargate but really it was double robo. But then he politely stopped right outside my 4th base and started harassing me.
Suddenly I have 5-6 lurkers I didn't before and he can't push in. Now I have brood lords and he has a dozen immortals.
Harass is great, and lurkers are good units, but really when you take a lead you need to do something with it. I win a lot of ZvPs because I'm very active on the map and in translation my leads to my opponents losses. Having a supply advantage isn't going to help if you wait till you hit 200/200 then a-move. Unless you've gained it through annihilating your opponents economy then he will be able to transition.
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I'm a diamond zerg, but started this year as a bronze player (hadn't played for more then a year). Since I hit plat leauge ZvP was my worst match-up, so I offraced with P quite a lot so that I understand the weaknesses of the Protoss race.
Each race has its own weaknesses, but I certainly can't say Protoss has more then others, as even though I played way less Protoss then Zerg I beat Plat opponents with my Protoss, and the 3.7 patch put me in Diamond leauge with Protoss (it can still change dramatically as I didn't play that much toss this season, but my Protoss MMR is higher then my Zerg one).
I'm writing that as a proof that playing protoss isn't way harder then playing Zerg (I'm not saying it is easier!).
Regarding lurkers, then I simply push before a zerg can have them, and usually win. Since I understand the ZvP match-up, I can scout well (first probe, then adept), and see what happens there and whether I should push or tech (if he rushes lurkers I can get the proper counters while he is on low eco). Usually I can push before they even have them which puts me way ahead.
PvP is rare, but PvT is my worst match-up with protoss, I guess its because I don't use guardian shield vs the early terran harass, which is what I will be working on.
Something I noticed when playing protoss is that copying pro builds or pro gamers decisions didn't work for me at first. So I adjusted to what I considered good for me, at what point the games turned fun and way easier to play for me.
It seems like in LOTV acquiring early scouting info is way more important, as well as engaging on time and harassing rather then sitting behind and maxing out. It makes the game way more fun for me, both playing and watching.
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