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Dear TL community.
Either I am blind, have too low of an IQ to use the search function correctly or TL is missing a designated BO thread.
I have been playing SC2 since the start, never knowing what the fuck I was doing ingame, every game a unique shitty random "now I think I'll take my 2nd gas" etc. and in HotS thanks to "The Ultimate Starcraft directory" I was finally able to stick to a bo and actually knew when to build what so I got into high diamond.
Unfortunately, i have not yet found something similar for LOTV (and accordingly dropped to low diamond and still on a losing streak). There are the "The [Race] Help Me Thread" threads which aren't too bad for discussing things, but I have a very hard time just finding an exact bo.
And by that, I do NOT mean advice like "Get Roach Warren early", "Take 2nd gas after Lair", "Do a 3 Hatch opening" etc. I mean bo's written down for idiots like me in the style of 17h 17p 17g 20 ovi 36 2nd gas and so on (or time stamps). How come TL, as THE SC2 place to be, doesn't have a thread where every VIABLE bo is posted, or at least the standard ones. It would also be very helpful for trying out the other races having sonething to start with.
Would that be possible? Or is there such thing on TL and I haven't found it?
Thanks in advance! I appreciate your answers.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Mostly because maintaining such a database is a lot of work (Liquipedia used to serve this purpose). These things are quickly outdated unfortunately. Usually its best to extract builds out of replays that you think look good.
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The reason is that there isn't enough people left in the community to dedicate such time working on referencing build orders. Overall people still playing are also looking at pro streams and therefore reproducing the build they see there.
When WOL was popular they were pages of threads discussing BOs and comps, but that's not the case anymore (sadly).
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Not on TL but I like to go to spawning tool. You can even use sometimes SALT with their BOs. An alternative is the allthingsprotoss subreddit and search for the builds of the week (in the sidebar you can search for them). I have no idea if the other race subreddits have something similar.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 25 2016 05:03 Archiatrus wrote:Not on TL but I like to go to spawning tool. You can even use sometimes SALT with their BOs. An alternative is the allthingsprotoss subreddit and search for the builds of the week (in the sidebar you can search for them). I have no idea if the other race subreddits have something similar. This is also a good option; the SALT guy is amazing!
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On November 25 2016 05:03 Archiatrus wrote:Not on TL but I like to go to spawning tool. You can even use sometimes SALT with their BOs. An alternative is the allthingsprotoss subreddit and search for the builds of the week (in the sidebar you can search for them). I have no idea if the other race subreddits have something similar.
This, and alos race specific subreddit have a build of the week (usually updated once every 4 weeks ) that is a good source for solid builds.
On the other hand, back in the days TL used to have some huge detailed articles from the staff about builds from time to time (TvT 101, Parting's 7gates robo) but it's been a while I haven't seen one - maybe they'll come back...
EDIT : while I was typing the part about old TL build guides I had a vague memory of some really high quality content, but couldn't remember exactly. So I searched a bit and found the kind of stuff I had in mind :
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/383628-protoss-versus-zerg-the-guide
Oh glorious days
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I guess the biggest problem in order to maintain such a thread is that TL Users are pretty harsh if a build order is not perfect. Look at the Strategy Section which is the place for build orders. No place for starters....and Master players have their builds already written down. I was in the same spot months ago and started using spawning tool in addition with overwolf.
I personally would like to maintain a build section...although i am a noob. But TL Liquidpedia and Strategy section seems pretty complicated. Most users here are used to top notch content. <3
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On November 25 2016 13:56 cutler wrote: I guess the biggest problem in order to maintain such a thread is that TL Users are pretty harsh if a build order is not perfect. Look at the Strategy Section which is the place for build orders. No place for starters....and Master players have their builds already written down. I was in the same spot months ago and started using spawning tool in addition with overwolf.
I personally would like to maintain a build section...although i am a noob. But TL Liquidpedia and Strategy section seems pretty complicated. Most users here are used to top notch content. <3
I think you shouldn't restrain yourself, what strategy sections lacks is actually committed people that are ready to write stuff. the old generation is whether gone or focused on other stuff, and nobody really retook the task.
Take the article I linked, at these times there were tons of people posting and discussing stuff in strategy section, that's how such high quality content was made possible. But Strategy section slowly died (just compare the "help me threads" from WoL - HotS and LotV, it speaks for itself) and will remain dead if nobody new comes with passion and motivation.
The fact a new patch came could actually be a great occasion.
Anyway, back in the days when I met a noobie on the ladder I was always telling him to go check TL.net, today, I tell him to go to reddit, and that makes me sad.
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On November 25 2016 20:04 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2016 13:56 cutler wrote: I guess the biggest problem in order to maintain such a thread is that TL Users are pretty harsh if a build order is not perfect. Look at the Strategy Section which is the place for build orders. No place for starters....and Master players have their builds already written down. I was in the same spot months ago and started using spawning tool in addition with overwolf.
I personally would like to maintain a build section...although i am a noob. But TL Liquidpedia and Strategy section seems pretty complicated. Most users here are used to top notch content. <3 I think you shouldn't restrain yourself, what strategy sections lacks is actually committed people that are ready to write stuff. the old generation is whether gone or focused on other stuff, and nobody really retook the task. Take the article I linked, at these times there were tons of people posting and discussing stuff in strategy section, that's how such high quality content was made possible. But Strategy section slowly died (just compare the "help me threads" from WoL - HotS and LotV, it speaks for itself) and will remain dead if nobody new comes with passion and motivation. The fact a new patch came could actually be a great occasion. Anyway, back in the days when I met a noobie on the ladder I was always telling him to go check TL.net, today, I tell him to go to reddit, and that makes me sad.
I m so bad at using reddit would you be so kind and link me to the zerg page?
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Yeah i kinda agree with the OP in WoL & HotS we had a lot a BO and strats that people posted. Sad times
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On November 26 2016 02:01 WhosQuany wrote: Yeah i kinda agree with the OP in WoL & HotS we had a lot a BO and strats that people posted. Sad times
Back then, people on TL still played the game.
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On November 25 2016 20:04 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2016 13:56 cutler wrote: I guess the biggest problem in order to maintain such a thread is that TL Users are pretty harsh if a build order is not perfect. Look at the Strategy Section which is the place for build orders. No place for starters....and Master players have their builds already written down. I was in the same spot months ago and started using spawning tool in addition with overwolf.
I personally would like to maintain a build section...although i am a noob. But TL Liquidpedia and Strategy section seems pretty complicated. Most users here are used to top notch content. <3 I think you shouldn't restrain yourself, what strategy sections lacks is actually committed people that are ready to write stuff. the old generation is whether gone or focused on other stuff, and nobody really retook the task. Take the article I linked, at these times there were tons of people posting and discussing stuff in strategy section, that's how such high quality content was made possible. But Strategy section slowly died (just compare the "help me threads" from WoL - HotS and LotV, it speaks for itself) and will remain dead if nobody new comes with passion and motivation. The fact a new patch came could actually be a great occasion. Anyway, back in the days when I met a noobie on the ladder I was always telling him to go check TL.net, today, I tell him to go to reddit, and that makes me sad.
I just posted my first build order i ever used on strategy forum. Lets see what will happen. Maybe i can add this on Liquipedia too... well after i got some feedback. :-)
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On November 26 2016 00:40 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2016 20:04 Gwavajuice wrote:On November 25 2016 13:56 cutler wrote: I guess the biggest problem in order to maintain such a thread is that TL Users are pretty harsh if a build order is not perfect. Look at the Strategy Section which is the place for build orders. No place for starters....and Master players have their builds already written down. I was in the same spot months ago and started using spawning tool in addition with overwolf.
I personally would like to maintain a build section...although i am a noob. But TL Liquidpedia and Strategy section seems pretty complicated. Most users here are used to top notch content. <3 I think you shouldn't restrain yourself, what strategy sections lacks is actually committed people that are ready to write stuff. the old generation is whether gone or focused on other stuff, and nobody really retook the task. Take the article I linked, at these times there were tons of people posting and discussing stuff in strategy section, that's how such high quality content was made possible. But Strategy section slowly died (just compare the "help me threads" from WoL - HotS and LotV, it speaks for itself) and will remain dead if nobody new comes with passion and motivation. The fact a new patch came could actually be a great occasion. Anyway, back in the days when I met a noobie on the ladder I was always telling him to go check TL.net, today, I tell him to go to reddit, and that makes me sad. I m so bad at using reddit would you be so kind and link me to the zerg page?
https://www.reddit.com/r/allthingszerg/
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tl;dr: The lack of guides means that most people don't know what do to, which means we can do anything and it can potentially work.
This is one of the biggest problems that the Starcraft 2 community is facing. We have too few newbie-friendly guides anywhere on the Internet. Most of the guides are too focused on timings and things that newbies and even longtime RTS players don't care about. There is no step-by-step guide to executing a lot of the strategies that our community takes for granted.
This isn't helped by the fact that the game feels very noninteractive. This is a term I picked up from the Magic: the Gathering community, specifically the Modern community. Modern is currently plagued by a host of hyper-aggressive, non-interactive decks. In RTS terms, they don't bother to scout or try to counter their opponent's strategy; they just go for the throat and try to kill their opponent outright. I am, of course, referring to units such as the Oracle, which is capable of ending the game by itself.
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Now, about Starcraft 2, I recently came back to the game because I was inspired by a prominent DotA 2 community figure: Sir Action Slacks.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/SirActionSlacks
This man reached 4.7k MMR in DotA 2 with barely any hotkeys. He actually clicked on his heroes' items and ability to cast them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/5245sq/purge_coaching_siractionslacks/
He is currently at 5k. This madman who is the equivalent of someone who just press F2 + A + mouse1 in Starcraft 2 is among the top 1% of all DotA 2 players. The community consensus is that Slacks's playstyle is 100% adapted to pubs, and would never work in pro games.
The rise of Slacks has inspired a lot of people to follow in his wake and do crazy shit just to see what will happen. Slacks is the main reason why I started playing Starcraft 2 again. I threw away my preconceived notions and just jumped into the deep end of the pool just to see what will happen.
Currently, I'm doing what I used to do back in Age of Empires 3; I'd keep most of my units at home and use transports to ferry them to the enemy base. Basically a naval invasion not unlike D-Day. It's worked remarkably well so far, and I'm having a lot of fun with Starcraft 2 again. I feel that we need more pub guides for Starcraft 2, fun strategies that will not necessarily work in higher level SC2 but would be fun and effective at the lower levels.
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On November 26 2016 03:03 DickMcFanny wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2016 02:01 WhosQuany wrote: Yeah i kinda agree with the OP in WoL & HotS we had a lot a BO and strats that people posted. Sad times Back then, people on TL still played the game. Didnt realise that but i agree totally. When the community stops playing then when really do have bad times
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Have you ever heared of spawningtool?
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On November 26 2016 06:07 WhosQuany wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2016 03:03 DickMcFanny wrote:On November 26 2016 02:01 WhosQuany wrote: Yeah i kinda agree with the OP in WoL & HotS we had a lot a BO and strats that people posted. Sad times Back then, people on TL still played the game. Didnt realise that but i agree totally. When the community stops playing then when really do have bad times
People on TL stopped playing, there is still a playing community. Just not here.
+ Show Spoiler +according to the pool on main page, only 22% play once a week or more, I'm not sure a pool on other sites would have such bad results
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No surprise there considering how community feedback has been consistently ignored. I was browsing TV Tropes when I found this link there:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/494703-poll-macro-booster-community-feedback
I had actually forgotten about how overwhelming the support for the removal of macro boosters was back then. I remember really enjoying playing the LotV beta in the brief period where macro boosters were removed. The game felt like an actual RTS game, with a distinct early game, mid game, and late game.
I honestly believe that the game hitting rock bottom will be good for it in the long run, because we might actually see some meaningful change in the future. I've seen a few games that started out horrible but then became really good as the developers integrated community feedback into the game. One shining example is Magic Duels, the video game version of Magic: the Gathering, which started out as a crappy F2P version of the game, but in its present state is one of the best ways to introduce new players to Magic (and is an awesome virtual Magic client to boot).
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There used to be a lot of fun and good Protoss guides that were well written and easy to follow. Then TL banned Sated.
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