Map RNG factor
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Uberduder
United States13 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1734 Posts
If scouting last is a really big factor for your builds, then just send out an earlier scout. | ||
ArtyK
France3143 Posts
I'm part of the people who think it should say your opponents spawn but lots of people disagreed, so i don't know if it's super important. Just means i'll keep wasting my vetos on 4 player maps... | ||
Uberduder
United States13 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On December 10 2016 08:38 phodacbiet wrote: No, I think there should be a random factor in Starcraft. Otherwise, what is the point of having 4 players map? Why not just make every map 2v2? If scouting last is a really big factor for your builds, then just send out an earlier scout. 4-player maps would still be differentiated from 2-player maps, because each set of spawn locations can be considered a map in itself, so when a player prepares for a specific map they have to prepare for each spawn location. Becuse players usually prefer certain spawn locations over others, 4-player maps inherently do have an element of luck beyond not knowing your opponent's starting location. | ||
Phaenoman
568 Posts
On December 10 2016 08:38 phodacbiet wrote: No, I think there should be a random factor in Starcraft. Otherwise, what is the point of having 4 players map? Why not just make every map 2v2? If scouting last is a really big factor for your builds, then just send out an earlier scout. No, I guess you have not thought about the random factor at all. Ideally there should be no random factor at all in sc2. And what do you mean by 2v2? And yeah, 4p maps do make sense without randomness. Actually they don't make sense with randomness. It's just gambling, if you don't know where your opponent spwans. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23454 Posts
What are we talking about? | ||
phodacbiet
United States1734 Posts
On December 10 2016 09:01 Phaenoman wrote: No, I guess you have not thought about the random factor at all. Ideally there should be no random factor at all in sc2. And what do you mean by 2v2? And yeah, 4p maps do make sense without randomness. Actually they don't make sense with randomness. It's just gambling, if you don't know where your opponent spwans. Woops, good catch. I was thinking 2 set spawns but was thinking of 1v1 maps so I just wrote 2v2 by mistake. | ||
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
There are advantages and disadvantages, and most people are in favour generally. On December 10 2016 08:41 Uberduder wrote: Spawning position makes a huge enough difference as a result of closeness and map geometry. There is plenty of point to a 4 player map, you have to play differently depending on spawns, regardless of whether you know where your opponent is. If anything, knowing where your opponent spawns on 4 player map allows for quicker decisions to do something different based on the locations. The argument then, is why bother to have a four player map at all rather than have a bunch of 2 player maps each being similar and better than each possible spawn. Also knowing where the opponent spawns allows you to cheese them better. 3-rax reapers would be better on Frost for example. | ||
-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
When you don't show spawn locations, you need to play safer than normal. Earlier scouting, safer building placement etc.. or you can just play greedy and take the risk. What's especially obnoxious about 4 player maps is that even if you scout quickly, if your worker goes in the wrong direction and you scout last, they still get away with their greed or you possibly don't scout their all in quickly enough. In my opinion, the second paragraph entails all the awful parts of four player maps with hidden spawns and the first paragraph retains all the important aspects of four player maps that make them interesting. The people who like hidden spawns are the same people that like playing random, lieing about their race, and cheesing you on 1 base. Imagine if in football, there was a large screen between the two teams until the play started. It's absolutely ridiculous in a competitive game to have rng. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
On December 10 2016 09:43 Darkhorse wrote: I love map RNG. A bunch of lava made me beat DLO in a PvP once What are we talking about? From a game design perspective it is terrible. From a cheeser perspective (and I'm a cheeser) it is nice being able to proxy in the middle of the map and have a strong chance that what you do won't get scouted fast. On December 10 2016 14:35 -HuShang- wrote: The people who like hidden spawns are the same people that like playing random, lieing about their race, and cheesing you on 1 base. Yes that accurately defines me, though I play Protoss when I played ranked on ladder so I don't lie about my race. People like me also like winning, and this kind of game design rewards randomness risk taking. So it is terrible design. Might as well give Stim a 1% to heal Marines fully, and 1% to kill them. Just for fun. | ||
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