On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
On January 15 2017 21:42 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Can we please go back how terrible BEST played game 1 4 and 5? lol
yeah game 1 was a misplay with failing to block the choke and letting vultures end him.
game 4 was just... ugh. he should have won that game so easily, how do you lose 5 base vs 3 base as protoss on demian? oh, by going carriers, losing your entire ground army to a recall and not even remacroing it, then not doing anything with those carriers.
game 5 was just the bbs. it wasnt him playing bad, it was just bad luck he chose that build and lacked scouting.
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout..
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He cant scout AND go proxy citadel with 10/15, he loses too much eco and it slows down his build too much. Sending a probe out to scout and a 2nd probe to proxy a citadel is just too much eco lost when ur going for a tight build like 10/15 and have to probe cut.
If he wanted to scout he would have gone for 1g zeal/goon etc., a standard opener.
Artosis and Tasteless didn't even got it was 7 pilon, 7 gate in 1st game. Pretty dissapointing. It did almost nothing though. Best rushes - died in 7 mins. Sea rushes - win in 3 mins. Best should go for longer games, playing safe at start.
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout..
Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free.
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout..
Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free.
You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss".
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout..
Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free.
You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss".
2013-2015 1rax FE was way more common then even FD, but so was Fighting Spirit. For many years 1gate expand without building a zealot was really common too. Only recently have we seen Protoss player build that first zealot. Generally gate->nexus->goon has been the goto as you can save 100 wasted minerals on a useless zealot for a better economy.
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout..
Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free.
You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss".
You pretty much NEVER see CC first at pro level TvP because 1 zeal completely destroys it, you almost ALWAYS see rax-CC gasless expand. He opened proxy gate (game1) vs it because rax-cc is common on EotS and proxygate punishes it if microed well. Sea however went for standard 11/11 FD so BeSt got fucked.
Game 5 he was expecting rax-cc again and 10/15 would have high chance of killing terran there. Not to mention 10/15 is always a very strong build on non-ramped maps, so Sea really just mind gamed him here
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really?
His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5.
Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds.
to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level
Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it.
He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout..
Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free.
You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss".
Well in any case it was poor build choice by Best who should have just played standard 1 gate expand and get it to late game. And as some people have pointed out earlier he even skipped unit production until he saw the rush coming.
On January 15 2017 21:12 TT1 wrote: Weaker player won.. now we have to watch a TvT finals, puke.
The stronger player won, or is winning not how you determine who the stronger player is? (facepalm)
No, this is a logical fallacy. It's not always the better player who wins. That's why we have "upsets", especially in Bo1 and Bo3/Bo5 _increases_ the chance of the better player winning.
Holy shit! What an epic game! Had me hanging at the edge of my seat the whole time! Really thought Protoss would've died to the cheese. So surreal, almost seemed like an action movie, the suspense building up every little second. What a hero dragoon! He deserves a Fenix / Tassadar medal!
Holy shit! What an epic game! Had me hanging at the edge of my seat the whole time! Really thought Protoss would've died to the cheese. So surreal, almost seemed like an action movie, the suspense building up every little second. What a hero dragoon! He deserves a Fenix / Tassadar medal!