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On May 26 2017 04:31 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 04:28 Bareleon wrote:On May 26 2017 04:26 opisska wrote:On May 26 2017 04:25 Bareleon wrote: What sucks for me is, unlike TLO and avilo, it is much harder for me to host a tourney on my mod since its much harder to get people to play it.
That is whats very unfair in the gaming scene. Can you briefly explain who are you and why should anyone care? And that is exactly the mind set people have if you are not some popular person in the scene. And that is exactly how the world works. I'm not sure why people pay attention to avilo, but TLO is an accomplished player. He is not just "popular", he has proven that he has extremely good understanding of the game by competing on the highest stages. What have you proven? Who do you keep coming in this thread blabbering about your mod? When it's done, you can show it to us and maybe it will be endlessly brilliant and will catch on. But so far, you have shown absolutely nothing and already everyone is "unfair" to you. Do you understand that literally everyone can sit down with the editor and mash up some numbers and call it a mod? That it happens from time to time and usually the results are completely uninteresting?
If he has good understanding of the game then he would know removing charge without removing conc shells and keeping the movement speed bonus of the creep the way it is will break Protoss.
But hey, let me know how well Protoss does vs zerg, a zealot will never be built protoss will still have to go mass air vs them.
Oh nvm he almost nerfed everything that protoss had that can help vs zerg lol.
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This is pretty cool tbh. The zealot changes are basically all I ever wanted for the toss iconic unit <3
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Zealot is making a come back in the new balance change by Blizzard. It was my all time favorite. This mod is horrible imo.
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On May 26 2017 04:32 Bareleon wrote: I mean sure my mod was far worse than TLO's and avilo's in the early stages but after I cleaned it up a bit and after more testing to see what still needs to be changed (I know some things still needs to be changed) I think it will be the best version of sc2 ever. You do realize that no one has any idea about your mod? Why don't you make a thread? Why don't you tell us more about it? You're just whining like a retard for no reason.
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On May 26 2017 04:35 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 04:31 opisska wrote:On May 26 2017 04:28 Bareleon wrote:On May 26 2017 04:26 opisska wrote:On May 26 2017 04:25 Bareleon wrote: What sucks for me is, unlike TLO and avilo, it is much harder for me to host a tourney on my mod since its much harder to get people to play it.
That is whats very unfair in the gaming scene. Can you briefly explain who are you and why should anyone care? And that is exactly the mind set people have if you are not some popular person in the scene. And that is exactly how the world works. I'm not sure why people pay attention to avilo, but TLO is an accomplished player. He is not just "popular", he has proven that he has extremely good understanding of the game by competing on the highest stages. What have you proven? Who do you keep coming in this thread blabbering about your mod? When it's done, you can show it to us and maybe it will be endlessly brilliant and will catch on. But so far, you have shown absolutely nothing and already everyone is "unfair" to you. Do you understand that literally everyone can sit down with the editor and mash up some numbers and call it a mod? That it happens from time to time and usually the results are completely uninteresting? If he has good understanding of the game then he would know removing charge without removing conc shells and keeping the movement speed bonus of the creep the way it is will break Protoss. But hey, let me know how well Protoss does vs zerg, a zealot will never be built protoss will still have to go mass air vs them. Oh nvm he almost nerfed everything that protoss had that can help vs zerg lol.
he wrote that he considers giving frenzied to zealots with the upgrade if concussive turns out to be too much of an issue.
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On May 26 2017 04:57 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 04:32 Bareleon wrote: I mean sure my mod was far worse than TLO's and avilo's in the early stages but after I cleaned it up a bit and after more testing to see what still needs to be changed (I know some things still needs to be changed) I think it will be the best version of sc2 ever. You do realize that no one has any idea about your mod? Why don't you make a thread? Why don't you tell us more about it? You're just whining like a retard for no reason.
It should be ready for public release next week but the issue is still there: will be almost impossible to host a tourney on it and to get ANY high level players to play on it without offering money.
I suppose I can host it on the website avilo used and while there wont be much incentive to play without money at least people below master league can still play on an external tourney (not the ingame one on sc2).
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On May 26 2017 04:50 Fonze wrote:This mod is horrible imo. sit on it Fonzie.... + Show Spoiler +
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On May 26 2017 05:55 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 04:57 Karpfen wrote:On May 26 2017 04:32 Bareleon wrote: I mean sure my mod was far worse than TLO's and avilo's in the early stages but after I cleaned it up a bit and after more testing to see what still needs to be changed (I know some things still needs to be changed) I think it will be the best version of sc2 ever. You do realize that no one has any idea about your mod? Why don't you make a thread? Why don't you tell us more about it? You're just whining like a retard for no reason. It should be ready for public release next week but the issue is still there: will be almost impossible to host a tourney on it and to get ANY high level players to play on it without offering money. I suppose I can host it on the website avilo used and while there wont be much incentive to play without money at least people below master league can still play on an external tourney (not the ingame one on sc2).
You won't know until you try. Don't be complainer. Just do it.
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Mod has been updated:
Quick note, the values here are editor values. I really can't be arsed to re-convert them all back into real time.
TLO's Balance Mod v1.0============================================ ZERG ============================================ Queen - Transfuse cooldown increased to 3 seconds from 1
Hydra - HP Reverted to 80 from 90
Infestor - Size reduced by 30% (Fixed silly running animation)
- Removed Armor tag
- While burrowed, may only cast Infested Terrans
- New Upgrade, Infused Carapace
- Increases the attack and armor ugprades of Infested Terrans by +2/+2 (appropriately shows as 2/2 on unit, also fixed requirement bug)
- Costs 150/150
- Upgrades in 75 seconds
Ravager - Corrosive Bile damage versus non
- structures reduced to 40 from 60. Remains 60 versus structures (now appears as 40. +20 to structures)
- Corrosive Bile delay reduced to 1.5 from 2.
- Attack cooldown increased to 1.83 from 1.6
Ultralisk - Made 33% smaller in size
- HP reduced to 330 from 500
- Cost reduced to 200/125 from 300/200
- Inner Radius reduced to .5 from .75
- Radius reduced to .6875 from 1
- Base Spreed increased to 3.1093 from 2.9531
- Creep Speed Multiplier reduced to 1.1726 from 1.2
- Cargo Size decreased to 4 from 6
- Damage reudced to 23 from 35
- Supply reduced to 4 from 6
Brood Lord - Supply cost increase to 5 from 4
- Frenzy added
- Is immune to any stuns, slows and mind control.
============================================ PROTOSS ============================================ Zealot - Base speed increased to 2.5 from 2.25
- Passive Ability, Fanaticism added.
- The Zealot is now immune to any stuns, slows, and mind control (Frenzy)
- Charge upgrade removed
- Leg Enhancements upgrade added
- Increases the base speed of the Zealot by +1.3 (to a total of 4.8)
- Adds 20 HP to the Zealot
- Costs 150/150/75
Adept - Resonating Glaives attack speed bonus reduced to +30% from +45%
Stalker - Blink Cooldown reduced to 8.6 from 10
Sentry - Damage increased to 8 (+1) from 6 (+1)
High Templar - (Storm Nerf Reverted)
- Feedback damage reduced from 1 damage point per energy, to .5 damage point per energy
Warp Prism - Shields reduced to 80 from 100
- HP increased to 100 from 80
- Delay between Phasing and Transport modes increased to 1.79 from 1.5
Colossus - Damage increased to 14 from 12
Oracle - Revelation duration reduced to 40 from 60
- Attack Cooldown increased to 1 from .86
Carrier - Supply Cost increased to 7 from 6
Tempest - Supply Cost increased to 7 from 6
Assimilator - Health reduced to 250 from 450
- Shields reduced to 250 from 450
============================================ TERRAN ============================================ Marauder - Attack count reduced to 1 from 2
- Damage reduced to 9 (+1), 9 (+1) vs Armored, from 10 (+1), 10 (+1) vs Armored (pre-LotV marauder)
Ghost - Activating Cloak energy cost reduced to 10 from 25
- Calldown Nuke
- Time for nuke to acquire target reduced to 12 from 14
Viking - Anti
- Air attack count reduced to 1 from 2
- Deals 20 (+2) damage, 4 (+2) vs Armored
Liberator - Supply Cost increased to 4 from 3
- Advanced Ballistics range increase reduced to 3 from 4
- Advanced Ballistics sight increase reduced to 2 from 4
Raven - Supply cost increased to 3 from 2
Battlecruiser - Supply cost increased to 7 from 6
- Damage to ground changed to 12 from 6
- Fire rate changed to .3374 from .2250
- Damage to air increased to 9 from 6
- Fire rate changed to .3374 from .2250
- Random Fire delay reduced to default (.125) from .1875
Engineering Bay - Neosteel Frame and Structure Armor combined into one upgrade
- Costs 150/150, 100 seconds
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You said at the beginning that you dont think air armies are very fun but I don't think you did close to enough to change the endgame. The supply nerf means you will have 1 less of those units, maybe 2. I think more gas cost is a better way of going about it
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On May 25 2017 18:45 Liquid`TLO wrote: Templar -Psistorm reduced to 80% of the previous damage -Feedback now deals half a damage point per energy (Considering 75 energy and/or maybe just doing the Feedback or the Storm nerf. Leaning more towards nerfing Feedback than Storm tbh)
Have you considered keeping the damage of storm the same in total, but making it last for maybe 6 seconds and therefore have lower DPS? I feel like the challenge of microing in order to mitigate storm damage is arguably a design problem in the current state, but altering it so that players have more leeway to micro out of it, while retaining it as a fully-operational space control influencer seems like it could be valuable. OneGoal made a similar change, and I remember finding it to make storm interactions much less cut-throat to play, but still exciting to watch.
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On May 25 2017 12:57 geokilla wrote:
What do you guys think of these changes? I like some of them a lot, especially the ones involving the Infestor, Ultralisk, High Templar (cus I personally hate playing against them), Oracle, and Ghosts. I'd like to see Blizzard implement the change for the Infestor the most, especially the ability to upgrade Infested Terrans. Would make Infestors and use of Infested Terrans a lot more fun to watch, and probably to play with or play against.
I think the main issue for me is brood lord supply. Obviously increasing it is a must but 3 seems like a big jump. Especially since other nerfs (like the carrier and tempest) only increased supply by 1. I'd say 2 would work fine. But blords really need support units so they aren't melted. Otherwise this is freaking awesome! Would be cool to see this be used in tournaments to test out the changes. <3
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Guys, read the update xd...
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The patch is interesting, but I don't get 3 things.. Why would we buff marauder and colossus? Nobody want to see those units more than we see now. And goliath needs to take the thor's place, like for yesterday. But good effort TLO, thanks!
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why the harsh feedback nerf? Seems out of left field to me. It's not like we have this huge problem where terrans are afraid to drop in TvP due to feedback or something. And if it's for lategame PvZ then templars aren't really the problem it's P's stronger air units.
Everything else seems pretty reasonable. Although I don't think supply is the right way to deal with air's overall strength. I'd say speed or battle stats are the better solutions in many cases (i.e. it makes no sense that air units are often faster than ground units AND can ignore terrain AND can often fight ground armies toe-to-toe)
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Looking at the Protoss changes, they all seem great, except for one thing: does the tempest really need to be 7 supply? It sees little enough play as it is; I feel like if you tweak it a bit and lower the supply it might actually be a good unit. Right now, there's basically no reason whatsoever to build them, when void rays and carriers exist.
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Problem with supply increases to Carrier/BC/Brood lord is that this isn't the problem with those units. The problem with Carriers and BC is that they're all or nothing units that are designed to kill everything with little to no support (Broodlords being an exception, a unit that has clearly defined weaknesses- that of air and of being overrun by ground targets- that serve an important function for Zerg: allowing them to push the issue against a fortified opponent. Fine enough unit, imo).
When I say all or nothing I mean for them to be good you need to have a whole lot of them out. Thus you turtle. And once you have a whole lot of them out, theoretically you are unstoppable. At least with Carriers vs Zerg and Protoss you are, I dunno about the other matchups too well, but my point is that those units are poorly designed on a fundamental level. I'm ok with them being devolved to a prestige status like the Scout from BW, but just going with an increase supply? I dunno.
Also, Speedlots that I can't slow with concussive shell? I dunno about that Dario, I really don't.
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Germany766 Posts
On May 26 2017 23:18 BEARDiaguz wrote: Problem with supply increases to Carrier/BC/Brood lord is that this isn't the problem with those units. The problem with Carriers and BC is that they're all or nothing units that are designed to kill everything with little to no support (Broodlords being an exception, a unit that has clearly defined weaknesses- that of air and of being overrun by ground targets- that serve an important function for Zerg: allowing them to push the issue against a fortified opponent. Fine enough unit, imo).
When I say all or nothing I mean for them to be good you need to have a whole lot of them out. Thus you turtle. And once you have a whole lot of them out, theoretically you are unstoppable. At least with Carriers vs Zerg and Protoss you are, I dunno about the other matchups too well, but my point is that those units are poorly designed on a fundamental level. I'm ok with them being devolved to a prestige status like the Scout from BW, but just going with an increase supply? I dunno.
Also, Speedlots that I can't slow with concussive shell? I dunno about that Dario, I really don't.
I realise the supply increase to air is a bit of a band-aid solution but I think I'll roll with that for now and consider other changes for the future. I don't think mass BC is really a big issue a lot of times. Carrier is a side-nerfed with the feedback nerf, plus hopefully more useful ultras will make Carrier player harder in general.
I tried the speedlots yesterday and they performed much worse in a head-on attack vs kiting bio than with charge. Not sure how it'll look like in a real game scenario yet they might actually still need a small mini-charge that has extremely low range and shorter chase range actually.
They did feel WAY more cool tho, because you could actually move them like proper units so hopefully I can make speedlots work in a good way.
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On May 26 2017 04:31 opisska wrote: I'm not sure why people pay attention to avilo
For the same reason people go to the circus to see the clowns. We like to watch the puppet dance.
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On May 26 2017 23:46 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 04:31 opisska wrote: I'm not sure why people pay attention to avilo For the same reason people go to the circus to see the clowns. We like to watch the puppet dance.
No one goes to the circus anymore, that is why the Ringling Bro's just shut down.
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