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On June 14 2017 06:16 KenZy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 06:10 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Ok! Host seasonal tournaments without money. 2017 Summer Non-KR BW Champion, 2017 Fall Non-KR BW Champion, and continue. Do some a little bit of interviews from each players for audiences and talk about goals I don't get it, you are asking me to organize tournaments ? What's the reasoning ?
I gave you some help how to grow foreign BW community. I never said you should be the one organizing the tournaments. Find someone who can organize tournaments like my idea.
PS: You stated that players don't care about money. So, I will assume you guys want a "TITLE."
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Germany3128 Posts
On June 14 2017 06:44 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 06:09 TheNewEra wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Well then you guys should pull this through to the end if you want to boycott tournaments like Filthy BW Cup because of Scan/possible other amateur Koreans. If you want to have such a hard stance it's fine but then be firm on it. Otherwise it feels like as if the foreign top amateurs are hypocrits. For example: BisuDagger just announced yesterday an awesome series of 4 teammatches between Foreign Allstars and Team Ajae (basically the Korean OldBoys). Maybe we can argue about this but those guys are in parts legends and probably all on a skill level above Scan. But then you see the lineup for Team Foreign All-Stars. Trutacz is in there. And he has to play against even stronger Koreans than Scan. So what is the reasoning for this? I'm picking Trutacz now as an example, because he is really vocal about this whole 'Banning Koreans' topic but this may as well fit to other foreigners. I mean the chance is higher that Trutacz loses all his games, than just winning one there. Why is he playing there if he is heavily outclassed...(by the way he would get some sure money there, but not implying anything)? Don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning of the foreign top amateurs why they don't want Scan in the tournaments, even if I disagree with it, but if you don't have a firm stance on this and only cherrypick which tournaments/series you boycott because of Koreans, then these foreigners 'pros' will just look like douches. Oh no. Definitely wrong. Some Ajaes were good in the old history, but not in 2017. They struggle at C or barely get B. Fair enough. Maybe not all are a level above you anymore but the point still stands in my opinion. Any FAT player is still the underdog against any of the Koreans in the lineup. So they shouldn't be hypocrits.
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Russian Federation139 Posts
On June 14 2017 06:48 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 06:44 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 06:09 TheNewEra wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Well then you guys should pull this through to the end if you want to boycott tournaments like Filthy BW Cup because of Scan/possible other amateur Koreans. If you want to have such a hard stance it's fine but then be firm on it. Otherwise it feels like as if the foreign top amateurs are hypocrits. For example: BisuDagger just announced yesterday an awesome series of 4 teammatches between Foreign Allstars and Team Ajae (basically the Korean OldBoys). Maybe we can argue about this but those guys are in parts legends and probably all on a skill level above Scan. But then you see the lineup for Team Foreign All-Stars. Trutacz is in there. And he has to play against even stronger Koreans than Scan. So what is the reasoning for this? I'm picking Trutacz now as an example, because he is really vocal about this whole 'Banning Koreans' topic but this may as well fit to other foreigners. I mean the chance is higher that Trutacz loses all his games, than just winning one there. Why is he playing there if he is heavily outclassed...(by the way he would get some sure money there, but not implying anything)? Don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning of the foreign top amateurs why they don't want Scan in the tournaments, even if I disagree with it, but if you don't have a firm stance on this and only cherrypick which tournaments/series you boycott because of Koreans, then these foreigners 'pros' will just look like douches. Oh no. Definitely wrong. Some Ajaes were good in the old history, but not in 2017. They struggle at C or barely get B. Fair enough. Maybe not all are a level above you anymore but the point still stands in my opinion. Any FAT player is still the underdog against any of the Koreans in the lineup. So they shouldn't be hypocrits.
TRUE
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Go on, write down how am i being hypocrite, wanting foreign scene to grow not to die. I'm listening. If people write some things which are not true about koreans and foreigners, skill gap and other things related to it, im gonna point them out, because they dont know about what they are writing.
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Russian Federation344 Posts
Because teamliquid is not the place where all broodwar community is situated lol.
I don't see the problem of lacking players or viewers. Can you bring exact primer? If you say filthycup so i can answer in that post: 1. Very bad time to play. Its good for casters and not for players. 2. Bad promotion. No one knows about it on iccup or defiler.ru.
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If someone wants to know about Korean's mentality and mindset for esports games, here you go. + Show Spoiler +
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I see your point (and also, it s nice to see you here again ) but I agree with the people saying the organisers should decide.
But may be some local tournaments (EU only, eu+NA only) once in a while, or in a cup format alongside the other tournaments would be good too.
We have to wait for the release of SC:R though, there might be enough players for clan leagues and this kind of things to restart. Scan has done a lot for the community so I find it unfair to ban him from everything.
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On June 14 2017 06:52 iFU.spx wrote: Because teamliquid is not the place where all broodwar community is situated lol.
I don't see the problem of lacking players or viewers. Can you bring exact primer? If you say filthycup so i can answer in that post: 1. Very bad time to play. Its good for casters and not for players. 2. Bad promotion. No one knows about it on iccup or defiler.ru.
tbh I think this is the biggest reason why Filthy and my tournaments are failing. Also, ICCUP is a very small player base now. We're moving to 1.18.
We have many problems with our tournaments, I do not think Scan being in them is as much a problem as everyone seems to think.
Also, this thread is odd. First, it sounds racist as hell (I'm just thinking about if someone brand new walked into TL and saw this as the first thread, hell even with context it's still racist). "Semi-Pro/Pro Players" would be more appropriate since it's not being Korean, its having access to the esport development that the country of Korea has. Coaches, players, etc. Secondly, in our tournaments SonStar, a player from Korea, played a bunch, won only one tournament, and then stopped playing. He's not too far behind Scan in qualifying for ASL.
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On June 14 2017 05:50 KenZy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 05:41 L_Master wrote:On June 13 2017 21:10 KenZy wrote:On June 13 2017 21:05 XsebT wrote: First, why Koreans are better is not really important. They just are. Second, by "banning Koreans" do we really just mean "ban scan"? I would not like that. Scan is an active part of the foreign community. Would he make some tournaments less exciting? Sure. But that's not a reason to ban a guy. I think you are wrong, why koreans are better matter. Would you like to see girl vs men in tennis ? or in boxing ? No, because it's not fair they don't have the same abilities, if the koreans are better because they play more then it's fair, if they are better because of their environment then, it's not fair. That's just life, life isn't fair. Most of the great Kenyan runners are born at altitude and raised there; which is great for increasing lung function and altering blood composition. Not to mention that genetically most the Kenyan runners have naturally favorable traits; small, highly placed calves, thin bone structures, etc. Nobody suggests to ban these people. In some sports, like golf, soccer, tennis, etc. a rich person can have access to a private coach and elite training from the time they are 5 years old. We don't suggest banning them. There is really only one case in which we except bans. Gender. There is always a protected female category, because the genetic advantages of being male of two overwhelming in most sports, and the genetic bases for gender is obviously damn near 100%. Any other advantage we accept as just inherent "luck of the draw". People will always have easier times being good at certain things compared to other people because of a combination of their genetics and their environment. In all but the most extreme cases (gender) they are not banned from competition. Again, the one side to this is competition by skill level. Many competitive activities do have skilled separate leagues and competitions. I.E. "open" league, then next category of players, then next category, them next category, on down to total beginners. Your comparison doesn't work, running is fine outside Kenyan, there plenty of runners. That's not the case for BW, I know life isn't fair, i wouldn't care scan playing in our tournaments if we had plenty of them and plenty of players but that's not the case. And instead there are less and less players in those 2 tournaments, i'm trying to help them finding a solution, i don't care Scan has an advantage, i don't care i'm not gonna have the money, but i care about the community. The players you are calling whiner, bitchs are the only one registring and playing in those tournaments, even if it's not even fun for them but just to keep it alive. And when we come with arguments to help them having more players you are all insulting them i seriously don't get it. Sometimes it's hard to be part of this community....
I most certainly did not call anyone a whiner, nor did I insult anyone. Calling someone a whiner is utterly unhelpful to moving a topic forward and serves only to anger people. Discussions are always better and more meaningful when the relevant issues have been clearly defined and understood, which is what I'm working to do.
A very logical path to take would be:
1) Define the problem - In this case it's pretty clear, concerns about players that are too good. As I explained before, it's not a problem with koreans, not is it a problem with koreans who are too good. It's players who are too good. Admittedly, that's only koreans at the moment, but it could always change
2) Define why it's a problem - Most people are stating it isn't about the money, though all else equal I'm sure no one minds making a few extra dollars.
As alluded to, the main issue then seems to be that playing against players of too high skill level results in lowered activity, because losing too much is discouraging, This, as near as I can tell, seems to be the problem with players that are "too good". If you think there is a different reason as to why players that are too strong is affecting attendance feel free to throw it out there.
3) Discuss solutions - At this point we have established that it's a problem when players that are too far above a given skill level play because many players find losing quickly in games where they feel they don't have a chance to win to be overly unpleasant and sapping the fun.
Knowing that, we can discuss possible solutions, not to advocate these but to put down examples of possible solutions you'd have things like
a) Increase the number of tournaments with a capped skill level, i.e. Max C rank on fish. b) Change the format such that anyone above C can play, but only at the very end as a "final boss" c) Host series/regional tours d) Allow B ranked players to play, but they must offrace x out of y games e) etc.
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On June 14 2017 06:44 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 06:09 TheNewEra wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Well then you guys should pull this through to the end if you want to boycott tournaments like Filthy BW Cup because of Scan/possible other amateur Koreans. If you want to have such a hard stance it's fine but then be firm on it. Otherwise it feels like as if the foreign top amateurs are hypocrits. For example: BisuDagger just announced yesterday an awesome series of 4 teammatches between Foreign Allstars and Team Ajae (basically the Korean OldBoys). Maybe we can argue about this but those guys are in parts legends and probably all on a skill level above Scan. But then you see the lineup for Team Foreign All-Stars. Trutacz is in there. And he has to play against even stronger Koreans than Scan. So what is the reasoning for this? I'm picking Trutacz now as an example, because he is really vocal about this whole 'Banning Koreans' topic but this may as well fit to other foreigners. I mean the chance is higher that Trutacz loses all his games, than just winning one there. Why is he playing there if he is heavily outclassed...(by the way he would get some sure money there, but not implying anything)? Don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning of the foreign top amateurs why they don't want Scan in the tournaments, even if I disagree with it, but if you don't have a firm stance on this and only cherrypick which tournaments/series you boycott because of Koreans, then these foreigners 'pros' will just look like douches. Oh no. Definitely wrong. Some Ajaes were good in the old history, but not in 2017. They struggle at C or barely get B.
yeh but those ajaes beat icarus..... its not like you're going to play them on fs/circuit. You're gonna play on diff maps and get owned by their superior knwoledfe gained fron their pro teams
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@shinokuki uh, i played many other maps. even helped many amateurs to get semipro for careers in the back day. I'm not Icarus. He dodges TvT and under my level..
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Russian Federation470 Posts
I am a frequent viewer at Filthy/Have at you tournaments. I would strongly prefer foreigner only tourneys, because now it's just not fun. There is no drama, no rivalries, and it is a big part of any sport. I usually only watch interesting foreigners matches. Liked multiple eon vs trutacz, dewalt vs bonyth series, but fighting for 2nd/4th place just not the same like fighting for championship.
That being said I don't have anything against Scan, he is a great player and nice person.
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Imo its up to the one who created the tournament. That said i do think scan is taking advantage for some easy monies playing in foreign tournaments. I wouldnt do that personally
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Well, first of all. Let's be entirely honest about what we are talking about here.
It is not about banning koreans or not, that would be incredibly racist. What we are discussing is actually banning Scan for being good. Scan is a foreigner in starcraft, as a "korean" in starcraft is a pro player or a former pro player. idrA, NoNy, ret, elky, legionnaire etc are more "korean" in a sense than lastscan, as they actually lived in a pro team environment with the best of the best. Scan only knows korean, he came into the game AFTER the pro scene was gone.
So him being korean is irrelevant. Yes he understands korean and can understand what the streamers say, and play on fish with low ping. Its not really relevant, other foreign players have had this advantage in the past. Maybe people wanted to ban idrA back when he had been in korea, I don't know. But I doubt it was a discussion that was ever taken seriously.
So we can then stop talking about banning koreans, because thats not what the issue is. The issue is actually banning one specific player for being too good compared to the rest of the field. That is the discussion we are having. So lets stop confusing ourselves here.
Is it right to ban a player for being too good? I don't think it is. It is not only unfair to the player in question, but it is also competitively dishonest and lowers the quality of the games and storylines for the foreign scene. I think it is absurd how the foreign scene wants to push away its best player. Instead of taking him to our chest and learning from him, forcing players to adapt to a higher level of play, we want to push him away so the old timers who are on the top of the non-scan foreign scene can have their time in the sun?
Because that is basically what this is about. The best players in the foreign community that isn't named scan are those who have played the longest and most dedicated in a scene that has been barely existing the last 7 years. In any active games, these players would be pushed off a long time ago. They have full time jobs, they have no hunger to become the best, they are satisfied with their current level of play, but enjoy their positions at the top of the hill. When a hungry, young guy with the adavantages of lots of spare time, a hunger to become the best, a fleshed out meta, a deep library of streams, VODs, guides etc at his disposal comes in and mops the floor with everyone, that feels bad. But that is simply the reality.
No honest competitor would want to ban someone simply because they are too good. Would you want to ban flash from ASL because he is winning too much? I'm sure the ASL guys are tired of losing to him time and time again.
The foreign scene gains nothing by banning Scan. It is much more exciting seeing if a new prospect can take a game off of scan than the coinflip of which zerg will win the next tournament. The foreigner scene gains a ton by taking Scan to its heart. How popular the tournaments are have nothing to do with Scan, if anything they benefit from having Scan playing, because us viewers actually want to have the highest level of play on display, not some boys club inhouse tournament between the best zergs outside of korea.
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if the korean players is an active member of the community managing the tournament i don't see why he can't play.
but if the korean player is just some random korean super gosu 450 apm terran, that nobody knows, then he should be banned.
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On June 14 2017 08:12 krooked wrote: So him being korean is irrelevant. Yes he understands korean and can understand what the streamers say, and play on fish with low ping. Its not really relevant, other foreign players have had this advantage in the past. Maybe people wanted to ban idrA back when he had been in korea, I don't know. But I doubt it was a discussion that was ever taken seriously.
This actually did occur when TSL2 took place. I'm not sure if the TL people running the event actually seriously debated banning Idra but there was a lot of discussion about it here, since he had been winning a lot of events before that and was starting to show significant improvement after being in Korea for a while. Of course that situation is different than this since his job was literally to play BW, while here (I barely know anything about this guy or the current scene so correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't seem that Scan plays the game for a living but rather on the side.
Another note, it's interesting to see people consider a ban of Korean players as "racist". IIRC TSL and TSL2 had a rule banning Korean players, with exceptions for those that were living outside of Korea at the time (like that one Zerg player who was in the US when TSL2 started, w/e his name was). It used to be that the Korean scene was its own and the foreigner scene was its own and they didn't really clash too often. I'm not sure how things have changed in recent years.
Edit: Found this topic which were the rules for TSL2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tsl-2/105526-tsl-player-eligibility-and-nongminzerg
If we were to have a TSL5 on Remastered (one a million chance, I know ), who knows if they would use the same ruleset. But I think it is worth pointing out that this is how it used to be at least.
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On June 14 2017 08:37 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 08:12 krooked wrote: So him being korean is irrelevant. Yes he understands korean and can understand what the streamers say, and play on fish with low ping. Its not really relevant, other foreign players have had this advantage in the past. Maybe people wanted to ban idrA back when he had been in korea, I don't know. But I doubt it was a discussion that was ever taken seriously. This actually did occur when TSL2 took place. I'm not sure if the TL people running the event actually seriously debated banning Idra but there was a lot of discussion about it here, since he had been winning a lot of events before that and was starting to show significant improvement after being in Korea for a while. Of course that situation is different than this since his job was literally to play BW, while here (I barely know anything about this guy or the current scene so correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't seem that Scan plays the game for a living but rather on the side. Another note, it's interesting to see people consider a ban of Korean players as "racist". IIRC TSL and TSL2 had a rule banning Korean players, with exceptions for those that were living outside of Korea at the time (like that one Zerg player who was in the US when TSL2 started, w/e his name was). It used to be that the Korean scene was its own and the foreigner scene was its own and they didn't really clash too often. I'm not sure how things have changed in recent years. Edit: Found this topic which were the rules for TSL2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tsl-2/105526-tsl-player-eligibility-and-nongminzergIf we were to have a TSL5 on Remastered (one a million chance, I know ), who knows if they would use the same ruleset. But I think it is worth pointing out that this is how it used to be at least.
The reason it would be racist in this instance is that if you believe Koreans are somehow magically better now that there isn't even a pro scene over there, you must believe that Koreans have an unfair advantage due to their race. Because being a foreigner vs being a korean when learning starcraft in 2017 is the same, Koreans does not have the advantage of pro team houses, or professional starcraft play being a legitimate career option like it was back in the day.
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On June 14 2017 06:44 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 06:09 TheNewEra wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Well then you guys should pull this through to the end if you want to boycott tournaments like Filthy BW Cup because of Scan/possible other amateur Koreans. If you want to have such a hard stance it's fine but then be firm on it. Otherwise it feels like as if the foreign top amateurs are hypocrits. For example: BisuDagger just announced yesterday an awesome series of 4 teammatches between Foreign Allstars and Team Ajae (basically the Korean OldBoys). Maybe we can argue about this but those guys are in parts legends and probably all on a skill level above Scan. But then you see the lineup for Team Foreign All-Stars. Trutacz is in there. And he has to play against even stronger Koreans than Scan. So what is the reasoning for this? I'm picking Trutacz now as an example, because he is really vocal about this whole 'Banning Koreans' topic but this may as well fit to other foreigners. I mean the chance is higher that Trutacz loses all his games, than just winning one there. Why is he playing there if he is heavily outclassed...(by the way he would get some sure money there, but not implying anything)? Don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning of the foreign top amateurs why they don't want Scan in the tournaments, even if I disagree with it, but if you don't have a firm stance on this and only cherrypick which tournaments/series you boycott because of Koreans, then these foreigners 'pros' will just look like douches. Oh no. Definitely wrong. Some Ajaes were good in the old history, but not in 2017. They struggle at C or barely get B.
Yeah, they are so all bad right now, that they did not qualify for ASL3.
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TLADT24917 Posts
On June 14 2017 08:54 aedeph wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 06:44 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 06:09 TheNewEra wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Well then you guys should pull this through to the end if you want to boycott tournaments like Filthy BW Cup because of Scan/possible other amateur Koreans. If you want to have such a hard stance it's fine but then be firm on it. Otherwise it feels like as if the foreign top amateurs are hypocrits. For example: BisuDagger just announced yesterday an awesome series of 4 teammatches between Foreign Allstars and Team Ajae (basically the Korean OldBoys). Maybe we can argue about this but those guys are in parts legends and probably all on a skill level above Scan. But then you see the lineup for Team Foreign All-Stars. Trutacz is in there. And he has to play against even stronger Koreans than Scan. So what is the reasoning for this? I'm picking Trutacz now as an example, because he is really vocal about this whole 'Banning Koreans' topic but this may as well fit to other foreigners. I mean the chance is higher that Trutacz loses all his games, than just winning one there. Why is he playing there if he is heavily outclassed...(by the way he would get some sure money there, but not implying anything)? Don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning of the foreign top amateurs why they don't want Scan in the tournaments, even if I disagree with it, but if you don't have a firm stance on this and only cherrypick which tournaments/series you boycott because of Koreans, then these foreigners 'pros' will just look like douches. Oh no. Definitely wrong. Some Ajaes were good in the old history, but not in 2017. They struggle at C or barely get B. Yeah, they are so all bad right now, that they did not qualify for ASL3. What Scan was saying was that they aren't as good as they were in their prime, not that they are terrible lol.
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On June 14 2017 08:59 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 08:54 aedeph wrote:On June 14 2017 06:44 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 06:09 TheNewEra wrote:On June 14 2017 05:34 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:27 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 14 2017 05:26 KenZy wrote:On June 14 2017 05:17 EndingLife wrote: Dat European logic tho... What do you mean by that ? Sure american logic is way better, you can't have access to all the knoledge from korean ? Lean korean. Okay. He means euro posters are showing some kind of superiority in posts. Like they deserve the #1 prize money. And yeah. American logic: you have a problem then fix it. Stop whining. Go learn Korean. That's a pretty American attitude. Seriously guys if we make constructiv critisism we are whining, and we just want the money ? Guys like Eonzerg, Trutacz, Bonyth, myself we played for 10years without earning anything but maybe 10$ we play because we love the game and our community. We don't fucking care about money, stop telling us we want the money, that's stupid. We just want the community growing and those tournaments are not helping while they could have been a succeed, we are just giving our opinion and making some constructive critisisms. Well then you guys should pull this through to the end if you want to boycott tournaments like Filthy BW Cup because of Scan/possible other amateur Koreans. If you want to have such a hard stance it's fine but then be firm on it. Otherwise it feels like as if the foreign top amateurs are hypocrits. For example: BisuDagger just announced yesterday an awesome series of 4 teammatches between Foreign Allstars and Team Ajae (basically the Korean OldBoys). Maybe we can argue about this but those guys are in parts legends and probably all on a skill level above Scan. But then you see the lineup for Team Foreign All-Stars. Trutacz is in there. And he has to play against even stronger Koreans than Scan. So what is the reasoning for this? I'm picking Trutacz now as an example, because he is really vocal about this whole 'Banning Koreans' topic but this may as well fit to other foreigners. I mean the chance is higher that Trutacz loses all his games, than just winning one there. Why is he playing there if he is heavily outclassed...(by the way he would get some sure money there, but not implying anything)? Don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning of the foreign top amateurs why they don't want Scan in the tournaments, even if I disagree with it, but if you don't have a firm stance on this and only cherrypick which tournaments/series you boycott because of Koreans, then these foreigners 'pros' will just look like douches. Oh no. Definitely wrong. Some Ajaes were good in the old history, but not in 2017. They struggle at C or barely get B. Yeah, they are so all bad right now, that they did not qualify for ASL3. What Scan was saying was that they aren't as good as they were in their prime, not that they are terrible lol.
Oh, thanks for clarification, I mistakenly considered, that Scan disagreed about ajae players being better than him in 2017.
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