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but you understand korean.we dont
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Maybe instead of calling it "banned" from an event (like the TLC or the weekly tournaments), say that if a player wins an event 3 times in a certain amount of time, they are awarded a "Hall of Fame" for the event, or maybe after the third win they get a BONUS amount of money (kinda like a golden mouse idea), BUT they cannot compete for the next events for X amount of time and are considered "retired" from the events until otherwise said by the organizer. This would only be applicable for longer iteration or weekly events.
This would mean that the person who wins is given the respect they deserve for winning, but ANY person that dominates too much will eventually have to step aside at some point and let other people have a chance to dominate.
Not only that, but this suggestion has no bias here whatsoever based on being Korean or not since it will apply to any player, and since we don't have an ELO rating or any global rating, this can serve as a good way for somebody who dominates too much to take a backseat without being "banned". The BONUS would also incentivize people to win the events as well. Only thing is that this wouldn't work for 1-time tourneys or any tourneys that don't run for more than a week.
Maybe this is a bad idea, idk. Anyways, it's another alternative.
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On June 15 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 23:59 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 14 2017 23:34 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:17 Alpha-NP- wrote: The community won't come up with an answer to this issue. It will just be half thinking one way and the other half thinking the opposite. I saw the same thing about whether or not people should allow maps to be unprotected. They made 100 pages of debate and to this day it's undecided whether it is wrong.
My personal belief is that Koreans and Korean-Americans/Korean-Russians etc should be banned from foreign tournaments. It's like taking a beginning Spanish class when you are Mexican American and grew up speaking Spanish.
Korean-Americans have an unfair advantage because they have korean websites like teamliquid and twitch that they can get better help than what we can learn.
Sorry Scan, but I don't know why he prides himself in winning non-Koreans. It's like an able bodied man taking pride in beating a handicap player. Yes. They are pretty much NATO(No Action Talk Only). Don't forget that i studied in the state and split my time to play games. Many people think that I got lots of feedback/share thoughts when i was improving. Hell no to that statement because no one really discusses about it when you get into high level games. They just absorb player's styles/b.o like a sponge to get better. I believe in matters of mindset when you are learning to get better at something. No emotions whatsoever. Just like Google Deepmind Alphago. Retired playing Go with 68-1 stats, rank 1. Hey Alphago:i didnt really want to comment on this thread but u killed me. first for all u were already a very high lvl player when u moved to the US.i remember back then that u used to tell u were part of SKT1 B team and u had a semi pro license.,but i think it was a lie.then later on u admited to be practise partner of some proteam.u were accused of maphack in TSL2 this is how good u were already to people suspect something like this.in 2009 there was not streams.not progamers.anything.every foreigner.(atleast me) what i did back then was to look for proleague games and copy strat and get visual strats of everything.and 1 time x year get replays of progamers in WCG.now here is where u are light years above us.i remember also in 2009 i was B- rank zerg bad stats on iccup and u reached A- with every race.i myself dled your zerg replaypack to learn.and this is pretty much the same for every korean user.and this is how it works.the problem is that we have here beliebers that think everything is magic and what no.in 2017 u can say everything is done to any new corner gets into the game without troubles and learn more.but not everyone is gonna play with 7 8 10 accounts on fish.Dont get me wrong u are very skilled player,and u put lot of effort and like sziky said with a big scene like the korean one where u can go to lans starleagues and countless tourneys your choice is to wake up 4 am to play in a tourney full of Foreigners with 1 korean.2 koreans in the begin.Sonstar that most of his losses were by walk over.so dont talk here about mindset and with a sinical recommendation to kenzy to host non prize tourneys for foreigners.We actually have them.iccup tours and defiler gaz tours.and i everytime i can i play all of them and sometimes challenge koreans participating.i know you dont care about the complains.but like said trutacz,and the others that care about our very small community watching that everyweekend the player pool is dropping and dropping.We complained about the koreans,organizers told us that the tourneys are to support BW so is open for all.they said.if you dont come to tourneys we will cancel them and thats all.Is just so sad that everyone only looks in one Direction.not everything is white and black.winning 4 tourneys x month doesnt gonna pay rent oy car or food,u are not gonnna make a living from BW.stop telling us is all about the money.Scan is in the range of semipro-progamers. he used to train with progamers.on ladder he plays CBA.foreigners play vs FEDC with lag.We cant even complain about Scans lag cuz he is the better player,is not like we are gonna win if played non lag games.But mad respect for Scan.im the first to root for him when he tries to qualify for ASL or when he plays on CHina events. I played cheesy and 2 base macro only 2009. Why? I know i havent absorbed modern trends. I did the same thing as you did to learn from proleague, osl, and msl. They didnt have individual stream servers like twitch and stuff. Dont get your idea wrong. There are only 1 big event(asl) in korea that is opened for all users. I also participate clanleagues that KaL leaders are managing players. Idk why you think that i dont participate lan tours. Also you assume there are tons of minor offline tours for some reason. We dont have it. The amount of ur games played for 3 months is like 1000 games or close to it(add iccup stats with your fish ladder). Quite not sure why you are talking about multiple fish accounts. If you pretty much spend your time efficiently to improve significantly im sure you couldve moved into a next level. Playing offrace in iccup and other stuff. Im not forcing you to 'git gud.' Im just a casual gamer/streamer just like everyone else. I do the same thing just like you do in iccup. Playing offrace, some coaching vods for viewers, playing with subsribers and etc. Whats the problem of hosting no prize money tour? Dont you guys have ego and always love to compare x player vs y player, whos better, right? Also, please read my comment again. I never fking said to kenzy to host. Not only europeans are caring about foreign community. I also care about it. Given away a lot of suggestions, but some people are just completely stubborn and fk you it wont work. Isnt it pretty much about NATO then? Practicing environment. I had all the same situation as every foreigners had problems playing with korean up to 2016. I lagged with ppl who used lowlatency hack, and they chose not to play with. Of course i had a better ping, connection and higher chance to find games, but it wont change a fact that i had the same struggle. You guys and everyone have access to login fish server to find good quality games. I dont make a living off by winning every tours. But it definitely helps with saving money for my future goals and dating cost with my gf every time i go out on a date. Lastly, i support foreign players/community giving them feedbacks, replays, etc about what they are doing wrong. I also congratz and root for them to win tourneys that i was not allowed to play. Btw, can you please use spaces and separate lines cuz sometimes its hard to understand your thoughts.
Then let's seal this thread once and for all, come every week end, get your cash to finance your dates and let's see where this will go overtime since your are contributing so much for the foreign community, only good things will happen.
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Bisutopia19033 Posts
On June 15 2017 00:48 JungleTerrain wrote: Maybe instead of calling it "banned" from an event (like the TLC or the weekly tournaments), say that if a player wins an event 3 times in a certain amount of time, they are awarded a "Hall of Fame" for the event, or maybe after the third win they get a BONUS amount of money (kinda like a golden mouse idea), BUT they cannot compete for the next events for X amount of time and are considered "retired" from the events until otherwise said by the organizer. This would only be applicable for longer iteration or weekly events.
This would mean that the person who wins is given the respect they deserve for winning, but ANY person that dominates too much will eventually have to step aside at some point and let other people have a chance to dominate.
Not only that, but this suggestion has no bias here whatsoever based on being Korean or not since it will apply to any player, and since we don't have an ELO rating or any global rating, this can serve as a good way for somebody who dominates too much to take a backseat without being "banned". The BONUS would also incentivize people to win the events as well. Only thing is that this wouldn't work for 1-time tourneys or any tourneys that don't run for more than a week.
Maybe this is a bad idea, idk. Anyways, it's another alternative.
Fight Club has the incentive to defeat the opponent that has a bounty on their head for winning 5 weeks in a row. Nothing more motivating then the pride and money of achieving that victory.
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On June 15 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2017 23:59 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 14 2017 23:34 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:17 Alpha-NP- wrote: The community won't come up with an answer to this issue. It will just be half thinking one way and the other half thinking the opposite. I saw the same thing about whether or not people should allow maps to be unprotected. They made 100 pages of debate and to this day it's undecided whether it is wrong.
My personal belief is that Koreans and Korean-Americans/Korean-Russians etc should be banned from foreign tournaments. It's like taking a beginning Spanish class when you are Mexican American and grew up speaking Spanish.
Korean-Americans have an unfair advantage because they have korean websites like teamliquid and twitch that they can get better help than what we can learn.
Sorry Scan, but I don't know why he prides himself in winning non-Koreans. It's like an able bodied man taking pride in beating a handicap player. Yes. They are pretty much NATO(No Action Talk Only). Don't forget that i studied in the state and split my time to play games. Many people think that I got lots of feedback/share thoughts when i was improving. Hell no to that statement because no one really discusses about it when you get into high level games. They just absorb player's styles/b.o like a sponge to get better. I believe in matters of mindset when you are learning to get better at something. No emotions whatsoever. Just like Google Deepmind Alphago. Retired playing Go with 68-1 stats, rank 1. Hey Alphago:i didnt really want to comment on this thread but u killed me. first for all u were already a very high lvl player when u moved to the US.i remember back then that u used to tell u were part of SKT1 B team and u had a semi pro license.,but i think it was a lie.then later on u admited to be practise partner of some proteam.u were accused of maphack in TSL2 this is how good u were already to people suspect something like this.in 2009 there was not streams.not progamers.anything.every foreigner.(atleast me) what i did back then was to look for proleague games and copy strat and get visual strats of everything.and 1 time x year get replays of progamers in WCG.now here is where u are light years above us.i remember also in 2009 i was B- rank zerg bad stats on iccup and u reached A- with every race.i myself dled your zerg replaypack to learn.and this is pretty much the same for every korean user.and this is how it works.the problem is that we have here beliebers that think everything is magic and what no.in 2017 u can say everything is done to any new corner gets into the game without troubles and learn more.but not everyone is gonna play with 7 8 10 accounts on fish.Dont get me wrong u are very skilled player,and u put lot of effort and like sziky said with a big scene like the korean one where u can go to lans starleagues and countless tourneys your choice is to wake up 4 am to play in a tourney full of Foreigners with 1 korean.2 koreans in the begin.Sonstar that most of his losses were by walk over.so dont talk here about mindset and with a sinical recommendation to kenzy to host non prize tourneys for foreigners.We actually have them.iccup tours and defiler gaz tours.and i everytime i can i play all of them and sometimes challenge koreans participating.i know you dont care about the complains.but like said trutacz,and the others that care about our very small community watching that everyweekend the player pool is dropping and dropping.We complained about the koreans,organizers told us that the tourneys are to support BW so is open for all.they said.if you dont come to tourneys we will cancel them and thats all.Is just so sad that everyone only looks in one Direction.not everything is white and black.winning 4 tourneys x month doesnt gonna pay rent oy car or food,u are not gonnna make a living from BW.stop telling us is all about the money.Scan is in the range of semipro-progamers. he used to train with progamers.on ladder he plays CBA.foreigners play vs FEDC with lag.We cant even complain about Scans lag cuz he is the better player,is not like we are gonna win if played non lag games.But mad respect for Scan.im the first to root for him when he tries to qualify for ASL or when he plays on CHina events. I played cheesy and 2 base macro only 2009. Why? I know i havent absorbed modern trends. I did the same thing as you did to learn from proleague, osl, and msl. They didnt have individual stream servers like twitch and stuff. Dont get your idea wrong. There are only 1 big event(asl) in korea that is opened for all users. I also participate clanleagues that KaL leaders are managing players. Idk why you think that i dont participate lan tours. Also you assume there are tons of minor offline tours for some reason. We dont have it. The amount of ur games played for 3 months is like 1000 games or close to it(add iccup stats with your fish ladder). Quite not sure why you are talking about multiple fish accounts. If you pretty much spend your time efficiently to improve significantly im sure you couldve moved into a next level. Playing offrace in iccup and other stuff. Im not forcing you to 'git gud.' Im just a casual gamer/streamer just like everyone else. I do the same thing just like you do in iccup. Playing offrace, some coaching vods for viewers, playing with subsribers and etc. Whats the problem of hosting no prize money tour? Dont you guys have ego and always love to compare x player vs y player, whos better, right? Also, please read my comment again. I never fking said to kenzy to host. Not only europeans are caring about foreign community. I also care about it. Given away a lot of suggestions, but some people are just completely stubborn and fk you it wont work. Isnt it pretty much about NATO then? Practicing environment. I had all the same situation as every foreigners had problems playing with korean up to 2016. I lagged with ppl who used lowlatency hack, and they chose not to play with. Of course i had a better ping, connection and higher chance to find games, but it wont change a fact that i had the same struggle. You guys and everyone have access to login fish server to find good quality games. I dont make a living off by winning every tours. But it definitely helps with saving money for my future goals and dating cost with my gf every time i go out on a date. Lastly, i support foreign players/community giving them feedbacks, replays, etc about what they are doing wrong. I also congratz and root for them to win tourneys that i was not allowed to play. Btw, can you please use spaces and separate lines cuz sometimes its hard to understand your thoughts.
Why can't you admit that you have an advantage ? Seriously we both know it's the truth, you are smart and you know it but just don't wanna admit it in front of your fans.
Saying to eon his training is shit and he could be so much better if he trained like you did made me laugh.
Flash came back after 2 or 3years playing no bw and only sc2 and he is already wayyy better than you. You know why ? He trained more efficiently than you, it must be that. Same for all pros that came back, they had no advantage over you, you just didn't train efficiently, must be that right ?
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On June 15 2017 00:56 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:48 JungleTerrain wrote: Maybe instead of calling it "banned" from an event (like the TLC or the weekly tournaments), say that if a player wins an event 3 times in a certain amount of time, they are awarded a "Hall of Fame" for the event, or maybe after the third win they get a BONUS amount of money (kinda like a golden mouse idea), BUT they cannot compete for the next events for X amount of time and are considered "retired" from the events until otherwise said by the organizer. This would only be applicable for longer iteration or weekly events.
This would mean that the person who wins is given the respect they deserve for winning, but ANY person that dominates too much will eventually have to step aside at some point and let other people have a chance to dominate.
Not only that, but this suggestion has no bias here whatsoever based on being Korean or not since it will apply to any player, and since we don't have an ELO rating or any global rating, this can serve as a good way for somebody who dominates too much to take a backseat without being "banned". The BONUS would also incentivize people to win the events as well. Only thing is that this wouldn't work for 1-time tourneys or any tourneys that don't run for more than a week.
Maybe this is a bad idea, idk. Anyways, it's another alternative.
Fight Club has the incentive to defeat the opponent that has a bounty on their head for winning 5 weeks in a row. Nothing more motivating then the pride and money of achieving that victory.
Yeah as I was writing I thought of Fight Club, too. The difference with my idea is that a player that wins too much would step outside of the competition, but I can also see that this might not be the most exciting thing for viewers (imagine if other popular players win, like Sziky, and then he has to step out, which maybe will attract less viewers). In the end we might just be right where we started.
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On June 15 2017 00:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: but you understand korean.we dont
And i never used language advantage to improve myself in game. Thats why i believe its matters of a mindset. I even post a youtube video who talks about a topic: Koreans dominating in games. I highly recommend you to watch, but still up to you to check it out. I can put a meal front of your table, but i cant feed you.
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On June 15 2017 01:03 KenZy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:59 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 14 2017 23:34 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:17 Alpha-NP- wrote: The community won't come up with an answer to this issue. It will just be half thinking one way and the other half thinking the opposite. I saw the same thing about whether or not people should allow maps to be unprotected. They made 100 pages of debate and to this day it's undecided whether it is wrong.
My personal belief is that Koreans and Korean-Americans/Korean-Russians etc should be banned from foreign tournaments. It's like taking a beginning Spanish class when you are Mexican American and grew up speaking Spanish.
Korean-Americans have an unfair advantage because they have korean websites like teamliquid and twitch that they can get better help than what we can learn.
Sorry Scan, but I don't know why he prides himself in winning non-Koreans. It's like an able bodied man taking pride in beating a handicap player. Yes. They are pretty much NATO(No Action Talk Only). Don't forget that i studied in the state and split my time to play games. Many people think that I got lots of feedback/share thoughts when i was improving. Hell no to that statement because no one really discusses about it when you get into high level games. They just absorb player's styles/b.o like a sponge to get better. I believe in matters of mindset when you are learning to get better at something. No emotions whatsoever. Just like Google Deepmind Alphago. Retired playing Go with 68-1 stats, rank 1. Hey Alphago:i didnt really want to comment on this thread but u killed me. first for all u were already a very high lvl player when u moved to the US.i remember back then that u used to tell u were part of SKT1 B team and u had a semi pro license.,but i think it was a lie.then later on u admited to be practise partner of some proteam.u were accused of maphack in TSL2 this is how good u were already to people suspect something like this.in 2009 there was not streams.not progamers.anything.every foreigner.(atleast me) what i did back then was to look for proleague games and copy strat and get visual strats of everything.and 1 time x year get replays of progamers in WCG.now here is where u are light years above us.i remember also in 2009 i was B- rank zerg bad stats on iccup and u reached A- with every race.i myself dled your zerg replaypack to learn.and this is pretty much the same for every korean user.and this is how it works.the problem is that we have here beliebers that think everything is magic and what no.in 2017 u can say everything is done to any new corner gets into the game without troubles and learn more.but not everyone is gonna play with 7 8 10 accounts on fish.Dont get me wrong u are very skilled player,and u put lot of effort and like sziky said with a big scene like the korean one where u can go to lans starleagues and countless tourneys your choice is to wake up 4 am to play in a tourney full of Foreigners with 1 korean.2 koreans in the begin.Sonstar that most of his losses were by walk over.so dont talk here about mindset and with a sinical recommendation to kenzy to host non prize tourneys for foreigners.We actually have them.iccup tours and defiler gaz tours.and i everytime i can i play all of them and sometimes challenge koreans participating.i know you dont care about the complains.but like said trutacz,and the others that care about our very small community watching that everyweekend the player pool is dropping and dropping.We complained about the koreans,organizers told us that the tourneys are to support BW so is open for all.they said.if you dont come to tourneys we will cancel them and thats all.Is just so sad that everyone only looks in one Direction.not everything is white and black.winning 4 tourneys x month doesnt gonna pay rent oy car or food,u are not gonnna make a living from BW.stop telling us is all about the money.Scan is in the range of semipro-progamers. he used to train with progamers.on ladder he plays CBA.foreigners play vs FEDC with lag.We cant even complain about Scans lag cuz he is the better player,is not like we are gonna win if played non lag games.But mad respect for Scan.im the first to root for him when he tries to qualify for ASL or when he plays on CHina events. I played cheesy and 2 base macro only 2009. Why? I know i havent absorbed modern trends. I did the same thing as you did to learn from proleague, osl, and msl. They didnt have individual stream servers like twitch and stuff. Dont get your idea wrong. There are only 1 big event(asl) in korea that is opened for all users. I also participate clanleagues that KaL leaders are managing players. Idk why you think that i dont participate lan tours. Also you assume there are tons of minor offline tours for some reason. We dont have it. The amount of ur games played for 3 months is like 1000 games or close to it(add iccup stats with your fish ladder). Quite not sure why you are talking about multiple fish accounts. If you pretty much spend your time efficiently to improve significantly im sure you couldve moved into a next level. Playing offrace in iccup and other stuff. Im not forcing you to 'git gud.' Im just a casual gamer/streamer just like everyone else. I do the same thing just like you do in iccup. Playing offrace, some coaching vods for viewers, playing with subsribers and etc. Whats the problem of hosting no prize money tour? Dont you guys have ego and always love to compare x player vs y player, whos better, right? Also, please read my comment again. I never fking said to kenzy to host. Not only europeans are caring about foreign community. I also care about it. Given away a lot of suggestions, but some people are just completely stubborn and fk you it wont work. Isnt it pretty much about NATO then? Practicing environment. I had all the same situation as every foreigners had problems playing with korean up to 2016. I lagged with ppl who used lowlatency hack, and they chose not to play with. Of course i had a better ping, connection and higher chance to find games, but it wont change a fact that i had the same struggle. You guys and everyone have access to login fish server to find good quality games. I dont make a living off by winning every tours. But it definitely helps with saving money for my future goals and dating cost with my gf every time i go out on a date. Lastly, i support foreign players/community giving them feedbacks, replays, etc about what they are doing wrong. I also congratz and root for them to win tourneys that i was not allowed to play. Btw, can you please use spaces and separate lines cuz sometimes its hard to understand your thoughts. Why can't you admit that you have an advantage ? Seriously we both know it's the truth, you are smart and you know it but just don't wanna admit it in front of your fans. Saying to eon his training is shit and he could be so much better if he trained like you did made me laugh. Flash came back after 2 or 3years playing no bw and only sc2 and he is already wayyy better than you. You know why ? He trained more efficiently than you, it must be that. Same for all pros that came back, they had no advantage over you, you just didn't train efficiently, must be that right ?
Go talk to him and admit tesagi. Thats what you are literally doing ro me. Otherwise i am gonna act the same as others. That euro logic.
Flash was in a proteam and practiced with their team members all day long. i practiced with players with limited online good users. You are comparing shit that doesnt have same circumstances.
Can someone do the common and difference list between foreign top users and scan? If i do it then they think i am not admitting shit.
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On June 15 2017 01:03 KenZy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:59 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 14 2017 23:34 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:17 Alpha-NP- wrote: The community won't come up with an answer to this issue. It will just be half thinking one way and the other half thinking the opposite. I saw the same thing about whether or not people should allow maps to be unprotected. They made 100 pages of debate and to this day it's undecided whether it is wrong.
My personal belief is that Koreans and Korean-Americans/Korean-Russians etc should be banned from foreign tournaments. It's like taking a beginning Spanish class when you are Mexican American and grew up speaking Spanish.
Korean-Americans have an unfair advantage because they have korean websites like teamliquid and twitch that they can get better help than what we can learn.
Sorry Scan, but I don't know why he prides himself in winning non-Koreans. It's like an able bodied man taking pride in beating a handicap player. Yes. They are pretty much NATO(No Action Talk Only). Don't forget that i studied in the state and split my time to play games. Many people think that I got lots of feedback/share thoughts when i was improving. Hell no to that statement because no one really discusses about it when you get into high level games. They just absorb player's styles/b.o like a sponge to get better. I believe in matters of mindset when you are learning to get better at something. No emotions whatsoever. Just like Google Deepmind Alphago. Retired playing Go with 68-1 stats, rank 1. Hey Alphago:i didnt really want to comment on this thread but u killed me. first for all u were already a very high lvl player when u moved to the US.i remember back then that u used to tell u were part of SKT1 B team and u had a semi pro license.,but i think it was a lie.then later on u admited to be practise partner of some proteam.u were accused of maphack in TSL2 this is how good u were already to people suspect something like this.in 2009 there was not streams.not progamers.anything.every foreigner.(atleast me) what i did back then was to look for proleague games and copy strat and get visual strats of everything.and 1 time x year get replays of progamers in WCG.now here is where u are light years above us.i remember also in 2009 i was B- rank zerg bad stats on iccup and u reached A- with every race.i myself dled your zerg replaypack to learn.and this is pretty much the same for every korean user.and this is how it works.the problem is that we have here beliebers that think everything is magic and what no.in 2017 u can say everything is done to any new corner gets into the game without troubles and learn more.but not everyone is gonna play with 7 8 10 accounts on fish.Dont get me wrong u are very skilled player,and u put lot of effort and like sziky said with a big scene like the korean one where u can go to lans starleagues and countless tourneys your choice is to wake up 4 am to play in a tourney full of Foreigners with 1 korean.2 koreans in the begin.Sonstar that most of his losses were by walk over.so dont talk here about mindset and with a sinical recommendation to kenzy to host non prize tourneys for foreigners.We actually have them.iccup tours and defiler gaz tours.and i everytime i can i play all of them and sometimes challenge koreans participating.i know you dont care about the complains.but like said trutacz,and the others that care about our very small community watching that everyweekend the player pool is dropping and dropping.We complained about the koreans,organizers told us that the tourneys are to support BW so is open for all.they said.if you dont come to tourneys we will cancel them and thats all.Is just so sad that everyone only looks in one Direction.not everything is white and black.winning 4 tourneys x month doesnt gonna pay rent oy car or food,u are not gonnna make a living from BW.stop telling us is all about the money.Scan is in the range of semipro-progamers. he used to train with progamers.on ladder he plays CBA.foreigners play vs FEDC with lag.We cant even complain about Scans lag cuz he is the better player,is not like we are gonna win if played non lag games.But mad respect for Scan.im the first to root for him when he tries to qualify for ASL or when he plays on CHina events. I played cheesy and 2 base macro only 2009. Why? I know i havent absorbed modern trends. I did the same thing as you did to learn from proleague, osl, and msl. They didnt have individual stream servers like twitch and stuff. Dont get your idea wrong. There are only 1 big event(asl) in korea that is opened for all users. I also participate clanleagues that KaL leaders are managing players. Idk why you think that i dont participate lan tours. Also you assume there are tons of minor offline tours for some reason. We dont have it. The amount of ur games played for 3 months is like 1000 games or close to it(add iccup stats with your fish ladder). Quite not sure why you are talking about multiple fish accounts. If you pretty much spend your time efficiently to improve significantly im sure you couldve moved into a next level. Playing offrace in iccup and other stuff. Im not forcing you to 'git gud.' Im just a casual gamer/streamer just like everyone else. I do the same thing just like you do in iccup. Playing offrace, some coaching vods for viewers, playing with subsribers and etc. Whats the problem of hosting no prize money tour? Dont you guys have ego and always love to compare x player vs y player, whos better, right? Also, please read my comment again. I never fking said to kenzy to host. Not only europeans are caring about foreign community. I also care about it. Given away a lot of suggestions, but some people are just completely stubborn and fk you it wont work. Isnt it pretty much about NATO then? Practicing environment. I had all the same situation as every foreigners had problems playing with korean up to 2016. I lagged with ppl who used lowlatency hack, and they chose not to play with. Of course i had a better ping, connection and higher chance to find games, but it wont change a fact that i had the same struggle. You guys and everyone have access to login fish server to find good quality games. I dont make a living off by winning every tours. But it definitely helps with saving money for my future goals and dating cost with my gf every time i go out on a date. Lastly, i support foreign players/community giving them feedbacks, replays, etc about what they are doing wrong. I also congratz and root for them to win tourneys that i was not allowed to play. Btw, can you please use spaces and separate lines cuz sometimes its hard to understand your thoughts. Why can't you admit that you have an advantage ? Seriously we both know it's the truth, you are smart and you know it but just don't wanna admit it in front of your fans. Saying to eon his training is shit and he could be so much better if he trained like you did made me laugh. Flash came back after 2 or 3years playing no bw and only sc2 and he is already wayyy better than you. You know why ? He trained more efficiently than you, it must be that. Same for all pros that came back, they had no advantage over you, you just didn't train efficiently, must be that right ? I'm still trying to figure out exactly what his advantage over you is. Why can't you just admit that he's better than you at this game? What if you had all the resources he had, and still couldn't beat him? Would that further prove his point?
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Bisutopia19033 Posts
On June 15 2017 01:03 KenZy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:59 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 14 2017 23:34 LaStScan wrote:On June 14 2017 23:17 Alpha-NP- wrote: The community won't come up with an answer to this issue. It will just be half thinking one way and the other half thinking the opposite. I saw the same thing about whether or not people should allow maps to be unprotected. They made 100 pages of debate and to this day it's undecided whether it is wrong.
My personal belief is that Koreans and Korean-Americans/Korean-Russians etc should be banned from foreign tournaments. It's like taking a beginning Spanish class when you are Mexican American and grew up speaking Spanish.
Korean-Americans have an unfair advantage because they have korean websites like teamliquid and twitch that they can get better help than what we can learn.
Sorry Scan, but I don't know why he prides himself in winning non-Koreans. It's like an able bodied man taking pride in beating a handicap player. Yes. They are pretty much NATO(No Action Talk Only). Don't forget that i studied in the state and split my time to play games. Many people think that I got lots of feedback/share thoughts when i was improving. Hell no to that statement because no one really discusses about it when you get into high level games. They just absorb player's styles/b.o like a sponge to get better. I believe in matters of mindset when you are learning to get better at something. No emotions whatsoever. Just like Google Deepmind Alphago. Retired playing Go with 68-1 stats, rank 1. Hey Alphago:i didnt really want to comment on this thread but u killed me. first for all u were already a very high lvl player when u moved to the US.i remember back then that u used to tell u were part of SKT1 B team and u had a semi pro license.,but i think it was a lie.then later on u admited to be practise partner of some proteam.u were accused of maphack in TSL2 this is how good u were already to people suspect something like this.in 2009 there was not streams.not progamers.anything.every foreigner.(atleast me) what i did back then was to look for proleague games and copy strat and get visual strats of everything.and 1 time x year get replays of progamers in WCG.now here is where u are light years above us.i remember also in 2009 i was B- rank zerg bad stats on iccup and u reached A- with every race.i myself dled your zerg replaypack to learn.and this is pretty much the same for every korean user.and this is how it works.the problem is that we have here beliebers that think everything is magic and what no.in 2017 u can say everything is done to any new corner gets into the game without troubles and learn more.but not everyone is gonna play with 7 8 10 accounts on fish.Dont get me wrong u are very skilled player,and u put lot of effort and like sziky said with a big scene like the korean one where u can go to lans starleagues and countless tourneys your choice is to wake up 4 am to play in a tourney full of Foreigners with 1 korean.2 koreans in the begin.Sonstar that most of his losses were by walk over.so dont talk here about mindset and with a sinical recommendation to kenzy to host non prize tourneys for foreigners.We actually have them.iccup tours and defiler gaz tours.and i everytime i can i play all of them and sometimes challenge koreans participating.i know you dont care about the complains.but like said trutacz,and the others that care about our very small community watching that everyweekend the player pool is dropping and dropping.We complained about the koreans,organizers told us that the tourneys are to support BW so is open for all.they said.if you dont come to tourneys we will cancel them and thats all.Is just so sad that everyone only looks in one Direction.not everything is white and black.winning 4 tourneys x month doesnt gonna pay rent oy car or food,u are not gonnna make a living from BW.stop telling us is all about the money.Scan is in the range of semipro-progamers. he used to train with progamers.on ladder he plays CBA.foreigners play vs FEDC with lag.We cant even complain about Scans lag cuz he is the better player,is not like we are gonna win if played non lag games.But mad respect for Scan.im the first to root for him when he tries to qualify for ASL or when he plays on CHina events. I played cheesy and 2 base macro only 2009. Why? I know i havent absorbed modern trends. I did the same thing as you did to learn from proleague, osl, and msl. They didnt have individual stream servers like twitch and stuff. Dont get your idea wrong. There are only 1 big event(asl) in korea that is opened for all users. I also participate clanleagues that KaL leaders are managing players. Idk why you think that i dont participate lan tours. Also you assume there are tons of minor offline tours for some reason. We dont have it. The amount of ur games played for 3 months is like 1000 games or close to it(add iccup stats with your fish ladder). Quite not sure why you are talking about multiple fish accounts. If you pretty much spend your time efficiently to improve significantly im sure you couldve moved into a next level. Playing offrace in iccup and other stuff. Im not forcing you to 'git gud.' Im just a casual gamer/streamer just like everyone else. I do the same thing just like you do in iccup. Playing offrace, some coaching vods for viewers, playing with subsribers and etc. Whats the problem of hosting no prize money tour? Dont you guys have ego and always love to compare x player vs y player, whos better, right? Also, please read my comment again. I never fking said to kenzy to host. Not only europeans are caring about foreign community. I also care about it. Given away a lot of suggestions, but some people are just completely stubborn and fk you it wont work. Isnt it pretty much about NATO then? Practicing environment. I had all the same situation as every foreigners had problems playing with korean up to 2016. I lagged with ppl who used lowlatency hack, and they chose not to play with. Of course i had a better ping, connection and higher chance to find games, but it wont change a fact that i had the same struggle. You guys and everyone have access to login fish server to find good quality games. I dont make a living off by winning every tours. But it definitely helps with saving money for my future goals and dating cost with my gf every time i go out on a date. Lastly, i support foreign players/community giving them feedbacks, replays, etc about what they are doing wrong. I also congratz and root for them to win tourneys that i was not allowed to play. Btw, can you please use spaces and separate lines cuz sometimes its hard to understand your thoughts. Why can't you admit that you have an advantage ? Seriously we both know it's the truth, you are smart and you know it but just don't wanna admit it in front of your fans. Saying to eon his training is shit and he could be so much better if he trained like you did made me laugh. Flash came back after 2 or 3years playing no bw and only sc2 and he is already wayyy better than you. You know why ? He trained more efficiently than you, it must be that. Same for all pros that came back, they had no advantage over you, you just didn't train efficiently, must be that right ?
Actually I think that's 100% right. Flash for a long time had no gf, no attachments, no responsibility, and had the sole focus of training for Starcraft. And if Eon's training is not enough, it could be because the majority of players are now older and have life/jobs/family to focus on and also must work for an income. Flash returns and gets paid everyday to train.
I don't pair Scan in the same category as Kespa players for the same reason. He too is someone that has to earn cash alternatively too streaming 24/7 for income. In Scan's case, he is just really talented and took advantage of the time where he could do nothing but play SC. But that is not Scan's current situation and he doesn't have access to unlimited practice hours.
In regards to foreign players, I think foreign players could have the opportunity to train to a higher level if 1. They were able to make more money on the scene which would help justify the extra hours of practice over sleep/life 2. Were younger then 18 when sleep doesn't matter and you can literally play your heart out as much as possible in order to get better at the game. As an organizer, my goal is to help #1 become achievable so that it will create an environment that will raise the skill level of veterans.
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There is a thread in broodwar section, where TeamLiquid community translates Korean Progamers' VODs. There was only 1 protoss content of Stork, but I learnt so much from it. For example, how many minerals u save by taking away 1 probe from gas, from not scouting with a probe, how to estimate terran's strategy based on its army, how many gateways u need having 1, 2 or 3 bases, how to use your shuttle with reaver in certain situations. I could go on. Just a single video gave me so much knowledge. Single video.
I play instinctively. One game in a certain situation I will have 3 gateways, in other 5, because I have no knowledge. Koreans just know things. They know how to react to a given situation. Meanwhile we, foreigners, are just guessing the correct answer to a given situation.
This game is about knowledge. The player with better decision making skills wins the game. That's why 200 apm user can defeat 500 apm user.
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Croatia9362 Posts
If you guys want any chance to stop this thread from getting closed, then you need to stop making personal arguments. This thread should not be about "Scan vs rest of the world". There are some legitimate things to discuss on this topic, most of them are laid out in the original post. Focus on those things, instead of attacking each other for personal reasons.
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Im starting to believe only koreans cant see this.imagine you are watching a french movie without knowing french.and then i will compare your thouht about the movie with a person that speak french. Now imagine you are in korea 10 years ago watching proleague osl msl mbc ogn showsin your tv and going to pc bangs to train.is still not clear?
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The most confusing this about this thread is people thinking watching videos will make you a better player.
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On June 15 2017 01:36 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Im starting to believe only koreans cant see this.imagine you are watching a french movie without knowing french.and then i will compare your thouht about the movie with a person that speak french. Now imagine you are in korea 10 years ago watching proleague osl msl mbc ogn showsin your tv and going to pc bangs to train.is still not clear? Why should Koreans, or Scan be banned for having access to resources that you don't? In what way is it his fault for knowing Korean and having access to information that you don't because you don't know Korean? You want to ban someone and hold it against them for knowing Korean? Really?
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Listen,if you are going to play this ping pong game i will just better pass.
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On June 15 2017 01:34 2Pacalypse- wrote: If you guys want any chance to stop this thread from getting closed, then you need to stop making personal arguments. This thread should not be about "Scan vs rest of the world". There are some legitimate things to discuss on this topic, most of them are laid out in the original post. Focus on those things, instead of attacking each other for personal reasons.
I gave them a solution, but then personally attacking me. Idk. I kinda want tl staff to lock the thread. People are here pretty much NATO imo.
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On June 15 2017 01:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Listen,if you are going to play this ping pong game i will just better pass. Coming up with a reasonable response to your claim is ping pong? You're a great player and I respect you for your skills, but your logic is flawed bro.
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On June 15 2017 01:36 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Im starting to believe only koreans cant see this.imagine you are watching a french movie without knowing french.and then i will compare your thouht about the movie with a person that speak french. Now imagine you are in korea 10 years ago watching proleague osl msl mbc ogn showsin your tv and going to pc bangs to train.is still not clear?
Seriously man just learn Korean and practice hard, then rematch vs Scan and try to proof your argument. The language barrier thing is so stupid, nothing is keeping you from doing this. In Sports some people start at the bottom, they have to climb more steps than others to reach the same goal. Scans mother tongue is Korean, so he didn´t start at the bottom to reach the same goal, but that´s just life. If the only Argument you can bring up for this is the language barrier, than I can´t validate this cause at all. I study near eastern archaelogy. Besides English there´s French, German, Italian and so on. Knowing more than 1 or 2 of these Languages give´s you so much more Information about all the important topics of this field. But never have I heard someone decent and knowledgable complain about this, it´s just the way it is and that´s why I´m learning as much Italian and French as I can so that I have a chance at landing a job in this field and knowing as much as I can. At first you do not think about it, but it´s a central part of my studies now.
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Is not reasonable and we re not going anywhere cuz you re looking to one place,and we are going to keep going in circles telling the same over and over,so i just better,pass.
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