On June 15 2017 23:58 KwarK wrote:
God help us if we get Boris.
God help us if we get Boris.
The one rule in conservative leadership elections is the favourite never wins, he was favourite before and he is the favourite again so he won't win.
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Zaros
United Kingdom3673 Posts
June 15 2017 14:59 GMT
#7201
On June 15 2017 23:58 KwarK wrote: God help us if we get Boris. The one rule in conservative leadership elections is the favourite never wins, he was favourite before and he is the favourite again so he won't win. | ||
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8727 Posts
June 15 2017 15:56 GMT
#7202
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
June 15 2017 19:20 GMT
#7203
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
June 15 2017 20:46 GMT
#7204
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8727 Posts
June 15 2017 20:54 GMT
#7205
On June 16 2017 05:46 TheDwf wrote: What specific event could trigger new elections? It would be a process, but a vote of no confidence from MPs I think triggers an election. Failure for any party to get a Queen's Speech through might also trigger an election (ie if no-one is able to form a government). Otherwise its 5 years of tory-DUP. | ||
KwarK
United States40778 Posts
June 15 2017 20:57 GMT
#7206
If they were to hold a fox hunting vote, for example, and lost it then they would probably be forced to resign their government and ask for elections. But as they didn't win they have no need to call a fox hunting vote, they can simply say that policy didn't survive the shift to coalition government. In practice there is only one vote they actually need to hold, the Brexit one, and they won't lose it. They're here for five years. May probably isn't but the Tories are. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
June 16 2017 15:52 GMT
#7207
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8727 Posts
June 16 2017 16:04 GMT
#7208
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KwarK
United States40778 Posts
June 16 2017 16:15 GMT
#7209
Help the homeless, strip the cladding from other buildings it is used on, work out how flammable stuff covered in tin foil gets classified as fire proof and fix that. | ||
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30538 Posts
June 16 2017 17:03 GMT
#7210
Do you think this could be true? I mean by now they should know have indexed who of the tenants hasn't reported in yet and have a pretty good view of who is not there right? Yes remains will be very hard to identify which is the reasoning the officials are using for not increasing the numbers stated but anyone who is still missing should pretty much be assumed dead by now. Do you think this could spark a major unrest if it's really so many dead? Feels like there is lots of slumbering anger. | ||
KwarK
United States40778 Posts
June 16 2017 17:06 GMT
#7211
100+ seems totally plausible. Someone has to know something more than we've been told. Even if they haven't found all the bodies they must surely know how many residents have been reported missing. Major unrest is unlikely though. | ||
Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
June 16 2017 17:08 GMT
#7212
On June 17 2017 02:03 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: So Lily Allen (yeah I know... the singer, but apparently she grew up in the area and still lives close to the tower and watched it burn and has been part of the community effort for 3 days now) is raising hell on twitter about why there is still no higher death count reported, saying they are trying slowly build up the real numbers because they are too horrific too release at once as it would spark huge outrage. Local rumors are 100+ it seems. Do you think this could be true? I mean by now they should know have indexed who of the tenants hasn't reported in yet and have a pretty good view of who is not there right? Yes remains will be very hard to identify which is the reasoning the officials are using for not increasing the numbers stated but anyone who is still missing should pretty much be assumed dead by now. Do you think this could spark a major unrest if it's really so many dead? Feels like there is lots of slumbering anger. She got axed from newsnight for saying the death count is closer to 150. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
June 16 2017 17:15 GMT
#7213
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
June 16 2017 18:39 GMT
#7214
I can understand the reluctance to place numbers, but still there is a massive difference between officially 17 and over 100 dead. It does seem true that the council just seems to reek of disdain to the people it is has a duty of care towards. | ||
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8727 Posts
June 16 2017 19:17 GMT
#7215
On June 17 2017 03:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I don't understand why the media is going after the contractors. If they operated to within building regulations, then it is the building regulations at fault. If the council and their managing company decided to not install fire sprinklers and fire exits, then it is hardly the contracting company's fault that none were installed. Still though, the estimates of fire sprinkler are something like £120 000 for the entire block, when the cladding costed £2.6m, really makes you wonder. Robert Peston's facebook post regarding this is quote insightful: https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1866052683719468 One reason why the Grenfell tragedy has shaken so many of us is because it exposes so much of what's wrong with the way this place has been run for years. We'll have to wait for a forensic examination of all the many decisions that turned a series of risks into an appalling catastrophe. But although the trigger may still be unclear, it is reasonable to identify a number of underlying causes. Part of the background is austerity that has been particularly acute for local government. But austerity seems to have become particularly toxic in a system where responsibility for vital safety decisions is so diffuse: we have ministers in charge of regulations, councillors funding an arms length management company, and a management company placing a refurbishment contract with the cheapest bidder. There is naturally huge anger that the government didn't ban the kind of cladding used at Grenfell, when such cladding is illegal for use on high rise structures in the US (as the Times reports today). Similarly there is horror that the government never made it obligatory for the fire safety standards that apply to new buildings to be enforced at older blocks - that such improvements are only recommended, not obligatory. But such lax or light touch regulation only becomes fatal in a system - such as we have - designed to drive down costs and save money, not to put the safety of people first. It is a system in which those working for all the interconnected bodies that made the refurbishment decisions and gave the wrong safety advice to tenants are able to say - as if that makes it alright - "we followed the rules". It is a system in which identifying anyone who can be proved to be ultimately responsible for what happened may be impossible. And as we saw in the banks before the financial crisis, when people can take reckless decisions safe in the knowledge they can't be held to account, reckless decisions get taken. The horrific corollary of a faceless, irresponsible system of public-housing governance is that many of the poor and vulnerable people who died in the fire are not even being given the respect of formal identification as victims - because they live on the fringes of the state, and the authorities seem unable to be confident they even existed, let alone that they have died. There is a social contract between those of us lucky enough to have voices that are heard and those who don't that we should not put them in harms way. Grenfell seems the most grotesque breach of that contract in my lifetime. It shames us all. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
June 17 2017 08:19 GMT
#7216
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
June 17 2017 10:17 GMT
#7217
Other spin for the Corbyn thing is "only 28%" oppose his idea. | ||
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
June 17 2017 10:39 GMT
#7218
On June 17 2017 19:17 MoonfireSpam wrote: The stuff around contractors and building regs is just the end product of politics and management practice all over the public sector (maybe its just how business works in general, I don't know). Cut cut cut, until someone disasterous happens, no single person is actually accountable because everyone collectively caused harm. Other spin for the Corbyn thing is "only 28%" oppose his idea. We also learn that 13% of the population is fairly cold-hearted lol | ||
RvB
Netherlands6079 Posts
June 17 2017 11:16 GMT
#7219
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farvacola
United States18768 Posts
June 17 2017 11:20 GMT
#7220
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