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Hi, I am a mid master Zerg and I was writing up a match up guide for a friend and thought some other people especially lower level players might be able to get some use don't think it has been covered here, but anyway here it is.
ZvP ling drop opener : double extractor trick 16 overlord 16 expand (the 16 expand allows you to get your hatch up before the Protoss can pylon block it on most maps) 17 gas 16 pool @125 gas pull workers off gas @2:40 get evo chamber + 3rd hatch @100% ling speed get a dropperlord notes: Have 16 drones on main, 8 on natural and 2 queens + start 1 more when the 3rd finishes If you decide to transition put back on gas so you can get +1 and bane nest, you can pick the order depending on what you scout (bane nest first is safer against adepts). Send your lings to your opponents base just before ling speed finishes bane + an upgrade (+1 melee helps a lot against adepts and can help you sto snipe their 3rd base, but +1 range will make be better for your hydra transition) -> hydra -> lurker -> brood or viper depending on if charge archon or tempest is my overall game plan If you float minerals just make some queens For hydra you need at least 4 gas and for lurker you ideally need 6 and for brood and other hive tech 8 you will usually need 8 (bare in mind this is just general plan and there many be situations where you want to go do these things of less or more gas or even go an entirely different tech route) The opening ling drop can be used to go allin or you can go just 8 lings to kill probes and scout. This sets you up for a good mid game since it can knock the Protoss off their game a bit and it makes it very easy for you to spot their tech and react to it.
Also feel free to ask any questions or explain to my why this style of playing ZvP is stupid
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Nice write up
I am gonna chime in here and put a build order that is a little bit more detailed out there:
http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/51137/ + Show Spoiler + 13 Overlord 18 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Spawning Pool 19 Overlord 20 Queen x2 22 Zergling x4 27 Metabolic Boost Stop mining Gas until 3:30 31 Hatchery 30 Queen 32 Overlord 33 Overlord 43 Spore Crawler x2 for Safety vs Oracles / Phoenix 43 Overlord 44 Evolution Chamber for +1 Melee before Lair 43 Queen 48 Zergling x8, Spore Crawler 52 Extractor x2 Additional gas once at we are approaching Mineral Saturation 59 Zerg Melee Weapons Level 1 62 Zergling x8 62 Baneling Nest In time vs Adept follow ups 65 Lair 72 Queen 78 Queen 89 Extractor 91 Extractor 91 Centrifical Hooks As soon as Lair is done 95 Hydralisk Den 97 Hatchery 97 Extractor 97 Baneling x10 97 Spore Crawler 103 Muscular Augments As soon as Hydraden is done 103 Hatchery, Hydralisk x6 114 Pneumatized Carapace, Overseer 114 Hydralisk x2 118 Hydralisk x2
My BO plays without the early Ling Drop, which you laid out very well, but is instead just a macro approach with some more detailed timings.
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On May 30 2017 12:26 Railgan wrote:Nice write up I am gonna chime in here and put a build order that is a little bit more detailed out there: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/51137/+ Show Spoiler + 13 Overlord 18 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Spawning Pool 19 Overlord 20 Queen x2 22 Zergling x4 27 Metabolic Boost Stop mining Gas until 3:30 31 Hatchery 30 Queen 32 Overlord 33 Overlord 43 Spore Crawler x2 for Safety vs Oracles / Phoenix 43 Overlord 44 Evolution Chamber for +1 Melee before Lair 43 Queen 48 Zergling x8, Spore Crawler 52 Extractor x2 Additional gas once at we are approaching Mineral Saturation 59 Zerg Melee Weapons Level 1 62 Zergling x8 62 Baneling Nest In time vs Adept follow ups 65 Lair 72 Queen 78 Queen 89 Extractor 91 Extractor 91 Centrifical Hooks As soon as Lair is done 95 Hydralisk Den 97 Hatchery 97 Extractor 97 Baneling x10 97 Spore Crawler 103 Muscular Augments As soon as Hydraden is done 103 Hatchery, Hydralisk x6 114 Pneumatized Carapace, Overseer 114 Hydralisk x2 118 Hydralisk x2
My BO plays without the early Ling Drop, which you laid out very well, but is instead just a macro approach with some more detailed timings.
Thanks, I probably should have put more detail in especially considering it was aimed at lower league players :D
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On May 30 2017 12:44 mrteaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2017 12:26 Railgan wrote:Nice write up I am gonna chime in here and put a build order that is a little bit more detailed out there: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/51137/+ Show Spoiler + 13 Overlord 18 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Spawning Pool 19 Overlord 20 Queen x2 22 Zergling x4 27 Metabolic Boost Stop mining Gas until 3:30 31 Hatchery 30 Queen 32 Overlord 33 Overlord 43 Spore Crawler x2 for Safety vs Oracles / Phoenix 43 Overlord 44 Evolution Chamber for +1 Melee before Lair 43 Queen 48 Zergling x8, Spore Crawler 52 Extractor x2 Additional gas once at we are approaching Mineral Saturation 59 Zerg Melee Weapons Level 1 62 Zergling x8 62 Baneling Nest In time vs Adept follow ups 65 Lair 72 Queen 78 Queen 89 Extractor 91 Extractor 91 Centrifical Hooks As soon as Lair is done 95 Hydralisk Den 97 Hatchery 97 Extractor 97 Baneling x10 97 Spore Crawler 103 Muscular Augments As soon as Hydraden is done 103 Hatchery, Hydralisk x6 114 Pneumatized Carapace, Overseer 114 Hydralisk x2 118 Hydralisk x2
My BO plays without the early Ling Drop, which you laid out very well, but is instead just a macro approach with some more detailed timings. Thanks, I probably should have put more detail in especially considering it was aimed at lower league players :D
My experience has shown, that you need to give people a lot of guidance and explaination on how to execute even just a basic buildorder. Then again, some players would rather have a general concept and guidelines that they can follow and figure out the exact execution themselves.
Especially lower league players will profit if you can give them a write up of the entire build order process up to the point, where all they have to do is spam units
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stopping mining at exactly 125 telegraphs what you are going to do, although most protoss will struggle to get the probe back in at that point. i say this because i got tipped off about a ling drop like this once and the guy called me a hacker for being ready (i sent my probe like half way home, then turned it around to check his main again)
i strongly suggest mining to about 100, then leaving one drone on gaz
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On May 30 2017 21:17 c0sm0naut wrote: stopping mining at exactly 125 telegraphs what you are going to do, although most protoss will struggle to get the probe back in at that point. i say this because i got tipped off about a ling drop like this once and the guy called me a hacker for being ready (i sent my probe like half way home, then turned it around to check his main again)
i strongly suggest mining to about 100, then leaving one drone on gaz
You are right about it being much easier to spot if you pull of gas and that is why if there is a probe in my base I leave them on gas as it doesn't slow anything down too much and denying your opponent this information is worth it.
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Russian Federation104 Posts
what is the timing of actual drop? something around 3:50?
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On June 01 2017 22:14 0mg_t1red wrote: what is the timing of actual drop? something around 3:50? Speed finishes at 3:20 so you could have lings in their base at around that time maybe slightly later if you use them to kill their scouting adept.
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Pretty cool, how hard do you usually see this is to recover and transition from if the drop goes poorly?
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nice guide
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The obvious counter to this strategy is to play defensive.
There was a reason Hydras weren't a popular choice in WoL and Hots because Protosses were playing Heavy Sentry/Colossus Macro Builds.
I would say having a Colossus/Sentry/Phoenix Core and complement it with Stalker/Gladept or Stalker/Chargelot would counter Ling Bane Hydra easily.
Force Field Block the DPS Pathing of Banes/Hydras and Thin out the Ling/Bane and the Hydras would be left naked for retreat waiting for Ling/Bane reinforcements. Retreating Hydras are then countered with Chasing Chargelots/Adepts along with Phoenixes.
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On June 20 2017 13:38 Wolfthenoob wrote: The obvious counter to this strategy is to play defensive.
There was a reason Hydras weren't a popular choice in WoL and Hots because Protosses were playing Heavy Sentry/Colossus Macro Builds.
I would say having a Colossus/Sentry/Phoenix Core and complement it with Stalker/Gladept or Stalker/Chargelot would counter Ling Bane Hydra easily.
Force Field Block the DPS Pathing of Banes/Hydras and Thin out the Ling/Bane and the Hydras would be left naked for retreat waiting for Ling/Bane reinforcements. Retreating Hydras are then countered with Chasing Chargelots/Adepts along with Phoenixes.
That would counter hydra bane but why would the zerg stay on it? You are ignoring economy changes in lotv that will force you try taking a 4th faster as well as the colossus nerf and hydra buffs and not to be forgotten, the addition of lurkers.
you will reach an end game with you on 3-4 base econ of colossus stalker and the zerg on 5-6 base lurker broodlord.
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Then you will have P or T playing defensive. I could see this working in lower levels though
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On June 25 2017 19:36 xwoGworwaTsx wrote: Then you will have P or T playing defensive. I could see this working in lower levels though Not sure what you consider high level, but I do this at masters 1 and noregret does it at code s level edit: the ling drop I mean
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On May 30 2017 20:45 Railgan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2017 12:44 mrteaSC wrote:On May 30 2017 12:26 Railgan wrote:Nice write up I am gonna chime in here and put a build order that is a little bit more detailed out there: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/51137/+ Show Spoiler + 13 Overlord 18 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Spawning Pool 19 Overlord 20 Queen x2 22 Zergling x4 27 Metabolic Boost Stop mining Gas until 3:30 31 Hatchery 30 Queen 32 Overlord 33 Overlord 43 Spore Crawler x2 for Safety vs Oracles / Phoenix 43 Overlord 44 Evolution Chamber for +1 Melee before Lair 43 Queen 48 Zergling x8, Spore Crawler 52 Extractor x2 Additional gas once at we are approaching Mineral Saturation 59 Zerg Melee Weapons Level 1 62 Zergling x8 62 Baneling Nest In time vs Adept follow ups 65 Lair 72 Queen 78 Queen 89 Extractor 91 Extractor 91 Centrifical Hooks As soon as Lair is done 95 Hydralisk Den 97 Hatchery 97 Extractor 97 Baneling x10 97 Spore Crawler 103 Muscular Augments As soon as Hydraden is done 103 Hatchery, Hydralisk x6 114 Pneumatized Carapace, Overseer 114 Hydralisk x2 118 Hydralisk x2
My BO plays without the early Ling Drop, which you laid out very well, but is instead just a macro approach with some more detailed timings. Thanks, I probably should have put more detail in especially considering it was aimed at lower league players :D My experience has shown, that you need to give people a lot of guidance and explaination on how to execute even just a basic buildorder. Then again, some players would rather have a general concept and guidelines that they can follow and figure out the exact execution themselves. Especially lower league players will profit if you can give them a write up of the entire build order process up to the point, where all they have to do is spam units This is the correct thing to do. It was only when I got to masters could I really just grab a few numbers and the concept and "wing it" per say. Anything before and I was wondering what EXACTLY to do at what EXACT time and stressing over it a shit ton.
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