US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9899
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On February 14 2018 09:44 Plansix wrote: They straight up confirmed that Russia set up political rallies using Facebook that thousands of people attended. They don’t give a shit who wins so long as both parties hate each other. I went through that to show they didn't set anything up last time it came up. They simply grafted their propaganda onto an already existing event. EDIT: Do I have to do it again for you to take it back? | ||
Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On February 14 2018 09:44 Plansix wrote: They straight up confirmed that Russia set up political rallies using Facebook that thousands of people attended. They don’t give a shit who wins so long as both parties hate each other. preeeeeeeeeetttyy sure they're happy with who won. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 14 2018 09:52 Tachion wrote: preeeeeeeeeetttyy sure they're happy with who won. Of course. But the real goal is dysfunction. If congress doesn’t do anything and the president is weak, Russia can do whatever it wants. Time recently reported that thousands of Russians have joined ISIS in the last couple years. Sure most of them were radicalized, but I’m not naive enough to believe that Putin and his goons won’t try to “direct” where target. | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Ads were one aspect. Something like five years ago they found there was a huge group of paid internet troll corporations who basically existed to spam up comments and message boards as well. Even fucking chain-email spams that my grandma passes on. People are really easy to get riled up if you're loud and frequent enough. You don't need everyone to believe everything, just some people listening to some things. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On February 14 2018 03:17 Grumbels wrote: Did your parents ever have “the talk” with you? Children come from sex, which can’t be made illegal as it is private behavior. It should be easier to have children biologically. This can be explained in purely consequential terms, even ignoring "natural law," the responsibilities of the state once it becomes the guardian of a child, and other similar arguments because: 1) childbirth is hard so people with ulterior motives for adopting kids less are less likely to go through it just for that reason (ie use kids as slave labor, perverse pleasure, other nefarious economic schemes) 2) natural mothers usually have a strong biochemical bond w their offspring which naturally aligns their motives 3) typically to survive childbirth you have to be in pretty good health, of a certain age, so you are physically capable of being around long enough, and able-bodied enough to provide (this is a separate consideration obviously from really-pertaining economic conditions) and otherwise be a relatively constant and healthy parent But you know Mohdoo, Plato was thinking about this 2,400 years ago. In the Timaeus he writes: Soc. To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's discourse was the State-how constituted and of what citizens composed it would seem likely to be most perfect. Tim. Yes, Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to our mind. [...] Soc. Neither did we forget the women; of whom we declared, that their natures should be assimilated and brought into harmony with those of the men, and that common pursuits should be assigned to them both in time of war and in their ordinary life. Tim. That, again, was as you say. Soc. And what about the procreation of children? Or rather not the proposal too singular to be forgotten? for all wives and children were to be in common, to the intent that no one should ever know his own child, but they were to imagine that they were all one family; those who were within a suitable limit of age were to be brothers and sisters, those who were of an elder generation parents and grandparents, and those of a younger children and grandchildren. Tim. Yes, and the proposal is easy to remember, as you say. Soc. And do you also remember how, with a view of securing as far as we could the best breed, we said that the chief magistrates, male and female, should contrive secretly, by the use of certain lots, so to arrange the nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the good of either sex might pair with their like; and there was to be no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the union was a mere accident, and was to be attributed to the lot? Tim. I remember. Soc. And you remember how we said that the children of the good parents were to be educated, and the children of the bad secretly dispersed among the inferior citizens; and while they were all growing up the rulers were to be on the look-out, and to bring up from below in their turn those who were worthy, and those among themselves who were unworthy were to take the places of those who came up? | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On February 14 2018 10:15 WolfintheSheep wrote: "Just ads" seems a bit silly considering people on this board continue to regurgitate a lot of those talking points. Ads were one aspect. Something like five years ago they found there was a huge group of paid internet troll corporations who basically existed to spam up comments and message boards as well. Even fucking chain-email spams that my grandma passes on. People are really easy to get riled up if you're loud and frequent enough. You don't need everyone to believe everything, just some people listening to some things. What are you talking about? This is a non-sequitur to when I joined the conversation which started with I for one think Russian ads didn't do much of squat. They were like .1% of just the campaigns internet advertising budgets. They were neither prevalent or effective. As far as improperly altering voter roles, it was Democrats in New York that did that, not Russian hackers. Then you have Ohio for Republicans and Arizona where it was apparently a ghost. If we want to restore faith in our elections we need to start with the idiots running them not faceless Russians. My position was that of all the Russia hysteria the ads part was the least serious. You know about CTR and that Hillary's facebook was more popular in Baghdad than any US city right? + Show Spoiler + The people who got riled up by loud and frequent nonsense are the ones who are "just listening to some things" about stuff like this. That's how you get P6 claiming Russians organized a massive rally without realizing THAT's the propaganda. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
This was reported on in November and I’ve found zero evidence that this report has been debunked. Can you assist? | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8705 Posts
Twitter has banned Paul Nehlen, a Republican challenging House Speaker Paul Ryan for a congressional seat, for a racist tweet targeting American actress Meghan Markle, the fiancée of Prince Harry. This week, the Natural History Museum in London released images of Cheddar Man, a dark-skinned Mesolithic man believed to be one of the oldest modern humans in Britain. Nehlen posted the couple's official engagement photo with Cheddar Man's face superimposed on Markle's, who is biracial. He captioned the tweet, "Honey does this tie make my face look pale?" Harry and Markle, set to wed in May, have dealt extensively with online harassment. In 2016, months into their relationship, Harry released an official statement decrying the "racial undertones" of abuse targeted toward Markle. The tweet is hardly Nehlen's first instance of controversy. The politician has made waves for racist and anti-Semitic tweets in the past and proclaimed that "Jews control the media" on former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke's podcast last month. Nehlen "has spent months curating an image of a sometimes ironic, but most certainly sincere, white nationalist willing to say things intended to push populist nationalism into the discourse," writes the Southern Poverty Law Center. Source Glad trump is immune to this. Why do they wait so long before they make moves on stupid shit like this? Just ban them off top and be done. Why create more controversy for your company unless you secretly endorse what these people are advocating? | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On February 14 2018 10:42 Plansix wrote: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/technology/facebook-russia-ads-.html?referer=https://www.google.com/ This was reported on in November and I’ve found zero evidence that this report has been debunked. Can you assist? Is there something about a rally Russians organized where thousands attended in there? | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 14 2018 11:03 GreenHorizons wrote: Is there something about a rally where thousands attended in there? Sorry, my bad. I copied the wrong article: http://thehill.com/policy/technology/358025-thousands-attended-protest-organized-by-russians-on-facebook https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/ People attended these these that were created by a Russian troll farm. In the case of Texas, they created two separate rallies and pitted them against each other. They have weaponized our own activism against us by directing it at other Americans, rather than our politicians and change. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8705 Posts
On February 14 2018 10:23 IgnE wrote: It should be easier to have children biologically. This can be explained in purely consequential terms, even ignoring "natural law," the responsibilities of the state once it becomes the guardian of a child, and other similar arguments because: 1) childbirth is hard so people with ulterior motives for adopting kids less are less likely to go through it just for that reason (ie use kids as slave labor, perverse pleasure, other nefarious economic schemes) 2) natural mothers usually have a strong biochemical bond w their offspring which naturally aligns their motives 3) typically to survive childbirth you have to be in pretty good health, of a certain age, so you are physically capable of being around long enough, and able-bodied enough to provide (this is a separate consideration obviously from really-pertaining economic conditions) and otherwise be a relatively constant and healthy parent But you know Mohdoo, Plato was thinking about this 2,400 years ago. In the Timaeus he writes: Soc. To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's discourse was the State-how constituted and of what citizens composed it would seem likely to be most perfect. Tim. Yes, Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to our mind. [...] Soc. Neither did we forget the women; of whom we declared, that their natures should be assimilated and brought into harmony with those of the men, and that common pursuits should be assigned to them both in time of war and in their ordinary life. Tim. That, again, was as you say. Soc. And what about the procreation of children? Or rather not the proposal too singular to be forgotten? for all wives and children were to be in common, to the intent that no one should ever know his own child, but they were to imagine that they were all one family; those who were within a suitable limit of age were to be brothers and sisters, those who were of an elder generation parents and grandparents, and those of a younger children and grandchildren. Tim. Yes, and the proposal is easy to remember, as you say. Soc. And do you also remember how, with a view of securing as far as we could the best breed, we said that the chief magistrates, male and female, should contrive secretly, by the use of certain lots, so to arrange the nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the good of either sex might pair with their like; and there was to be no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the union was a mere accident, and was to be attributed to the lot? Tim. I remember. Soc. And you remember how we said that the children of the good parents were to be educated, and the children of the bad secretly dispersed among the inferior citizens; and while they were all growing up the rulers were to be on the look-out, and to bring up from below in their turn those who were worthy, and those among themselves who were unworthy were to take the places of those who came up? What exactly was the point of this? Sorry if I missed something in reading this. | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On February 14 2018 10:28 GreenHorizons wrote: What are you talking about? This is a non-sequitur to when I joined the conversation which started with My position was that of all the Russia hysteria the ads part was the least serious. You know about CTR and that Hillary's facebook was more popular in Baghdad than any US city right? + Show Spoiler + The people who got riled up by loud and frequent nonsense are the ones who are "just listening to some things" about stuff like this. That's how you get P6 claiming Russians organized a massive rally without realizing THAT's the propaganda. Point is that those ads don't exist in a vacuum. Propaganda is about frequency and exposure, and facebook ads and whatever else is adding to that exposure. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On February 14 2018 11:17 Plansix wrote: Sorry, my bad. I copied the wrong article: http://thehill.com/policy/technology/358025-thousands-attended-protest-organized-by-russians-on-facebook https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/ People attended these these that were created by a Russian troll farm. In the case of Texas, they created two separate rallies and pitted them against each other. They have weaponized our own activism against us by directing it at other Americans, rather than our politicians and change. The first link is the one I debunked (by reading the link for the attendance numbers) which points out it was day 4 of protests that were taking place nation wide (after the election btw), not an event organized by Russians. The second one I'm not familiar with but it looks more like dozens of people and again not even really organized by Russians. Last week, federal lawmakers made public that two Russian Facebook pages organized dueling rallies in front of the Islamic Da'wah Center in Houston. One ad from the Russian-controlled Heart of Texas Facebook group announced a May 21, 2016, rally to "Stop Islamification of Texas," while another Russian-sponsored account announced a "Save Islamic Knowledge" counterprotest. Counterprotesters say their presence wasn’t influenced by the Russian Facebook ad but by the white supremacists who said they would attend. “It wasn’t Heart of Texas that we were organizing against. We were organizing against actual neo-Nazis that reside in our community, people we actually know,” Mejía said. “The Russians are just capitalizing on what is already existing in our society.” The Texas Tribune thanks its sponsors. Become one. Hannah Bonner, a United Methodist pastor who attended the counterprotest, said there’s a community in Houston that’s now accustomed to responding to similar events led by hate groups. The protesters at the Da'wah Center had already been active and organized before the Heart of Texas ad. Source On February 14 2018 11:30 WolfintheSheep wrote: Point is that those ads don't exist in a vacuum. Propaganda is about frequency and exposure, and facebook ads and whatever else is adding to that exposure. My point is that the hysteria is unwarranted and silly. The ads simply didn't do much of anything and the stream of propaganda suggesting otherwise isn't convincing (me anyway). | ||
Gahlo
United States34966 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On February 14 2018 11:35 Gahlo wrote: No tweets are loading on page for me anymore. I have to quote and copy paste to open them. Has anybody else had this issue? What browser are you using? Some browsers have some new "no track" security feature that will block all twitter embeds. Adblock or noscripts might do something similar. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On February 14 2018 11:35 Gahlo wrote: No tweets are loading on page for me anymore. I have to quote and copy paste to open them. Has anybody else had this issue? ninja'd | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On February 14 2018 11:35 Gahlo wrote: No tweets are loading on page for me anymore. I have to quote and copy paste to open them. Has anybody else had this issue? only as a result of having to use an adblocker; and hence entirely a result of intentional action. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8705 Posts
On February 14 2018 11:35 Gahlo wrote: No tweets are loading on page for me anymore. I have to quote and copy paste to open them. Has anybody else had this issue? I use an adblocker on chrome and I can still see tweets. I embedded one earlier today. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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