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On March 09 2018 02:24 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 02:20 n00bKing wrote:On March 08 2018 18:12 MoosyDoosy wrote: prepare yerselves for endless shitposting from the master of shitposting urstruly moosydoosy How come absolutely nothing came of this? Couple of all-caps posts about how you're about to go berserk, and then this, and then...fizzle. Same could be said for you. Your lynch is on the table but your involvement seems less than D1 to me. Plenty of things to talk about, why just randomly point at moosy for an unfulfilled joke promise and then do nothing with it? lol, I was responding to posts in the order they were made. Just as I've done the whole game.
And no, my lynch is NOT on the table. Not even you have tried to suggest that the medics target me tonight. And if you did, you WOULD get shut down.
I will nevertheless respond to your other posts, cuz that's just me.
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On March 09 2018 01:07 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 06:05 n00bKing wrote:Alright HF, you've said that DF's filter is "all just filler posts and no actual want to solve anything" and followed up later by saying "No drive, probably mafia." But we have plenty of players in the game who have shown no drive, or have put in no effort to solve anything, or have been no help. Kelsier and chaoser have been no help. prpl has been no help. I feel like Tubesock has been no help. When we're 46 hours into the game, I think you'd have to categorize Damdred (and his mighty single-page filter) as having been little or no help. If I lump DF into that category, it means that fully half of the other 12 players in the game with me have been no help. So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking. His posting style is pretty careless. The filter is filled with him either repeating something he already said, or repeating something someone else already said. An example of him repeating himself is this post: On March 07 2018 07:27 darthfoley wrote: n00b/rsoultin/AMG/Damdred is my town list ATM He'd already named all 4 of those players as townreads. No need for a new, distinct post that merely says the same thing. And an example of him repeating another player is this: On March 08 2018 04:49 darthfoley wrote: FF's filter reads like he's heavily influenced by the slightest amount of thread sentiment.
he's talked about lynching prplhz, rsoultin, vivax, Tubesock, me with basically no explanation.
Which is basically everyone that has had any pressure on him/herself today. I'm fine scum reading him That post might as well be a copy & paste of Moosy's "King of Wagons" thing. (By the way, I think "Wagon King" would sound way cooler than "King of Wagons." Calls to mind the Witch King. Good stuff.) DF also parroted my verbiage almost exactly, when talking about prpl's "wishy washyness." I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead. Not just that. This post at the time when df had 3 votes and Noob was still on TS basically reads like him starting to want to defend df by dividing players by usefulness then starts summing up reasons for him being scummy instead. Wrong. I gave ZERO reasons for DF being scummy at that time. And in the time since then, I've still only ever given one reason for him being scummy: He claimed medic while under duress. And amazingly, that's when you decided to take your vote off of him, and put it on me, a player who may as well have had the "lynchproof" ability.
On March 09 2018 01:07 Vivax wrote:But concludes with this: Show nested quote + I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead.
So he took the argumentation for DF being mafia and concluded the opposite cause according to him there were enough afks for df not to post anything. Too scummy to be scum while he could be afk. WRONG. That's NOT argumentation for DF being Mafia, it's argumentation for him being Town. I said he shows no caution, I said he's careless. He barely paraphrases his own posts and makes them again, not caring who notices. He barely paraphrases points that have already been made by other players and makes them again, not caring who notices. In the case of him talking about prpl's wishy-washyness, he not only rehashed what I said, he even used my same wording! New posts, but no new information, and NO shame about it.
Is this Mafia-type behavior, but SOOOO much of it, that it makes him "too scummy to be scum"? NO! It's TOWN-indicative, because it all reflects the mindset of someone who isn't afraid of being caught. A scum player thinks of something to post, then thinks *about* it (then maybe thinks about it some more) and then decides whether to post it or not. A town player thinks of something, then posts it. A town player maybe forgets that he said it already, because he's not carefully monitoring his own posts. A town player says things that someone else already said, because he hasn't pressured himself about how "I better try to look like I'm thinking for myself. I better generate some original ideas here. I better make myself look like I'm investigating."
AMG (who I still continue to townlean) struck me the same way, with a post that essentially read to me like "I'm not going to create original content just for the sake of it, if someone else already said what I think. If you don't like it, too bad." I don't see scum players with that outlook too often. I see town players with that outlook all the time.
DF's recklessness is not a scum trait that he just displayed "too much" of. It's a Town trait.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I still can't comprehend the df town read.
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This is from your post where you reply to HF about DF.
So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking.
Technically the reason is that he is a type of player who is held at a higher standard regarding activity and post quality. To illustrate one of the things I don't understand about your read on df.
Me, HF and rsoultin all noticed something being off about him pretty quickly. Yet here you are asking a question that doesn't want an answer about whether he is lackluster compared to his other town games. That post mostly sounds like you throw in a bit of everything and then reach a conclusion that's comfortable for you. Not cause of the arguments you presented, but because it's comfortable.
So either you are unbelievably stubborn and tend to think the opposite of the majority for no apparent reason, or you just make up your reads. Tending towards the latter but I'm also biased at this point :>
Who would you vote to vig tonight?
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And df needs to get in here cause I want to know what his action is going to be.
I don't see a better play he could think of where he doesn't tell town who he's doccing. He needs to play with open cards now or explain why not.
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Or this entire vote gig is going to be pointless
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On March 09 2018 00:34 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 20:56 AMG wrote:On March 08 2018 20:49 rsoultin wrote:On March 08 2018 20:38 AMG wrote:On March 08 2018 19:57 rsoultin wrote:On March 08 2018 19:04 AMG wrote:On March 08 2018 18:07 rsoultin wrote:On March 08 2018 08:56 AMG wrote:On March 08 2018 08:14 rsoultin wrote:On March 08 2018 08:03 darthfoley wrote: Meh I thought we got him considering he was lurking at deadline Yeah... I'm actually warming up to Vivax's AMG read more. On March 08 2018 07:16 AMG wrote: [quote]
I'm a single parent that works. Activity will not be consistent. And when I return to the thread with a point to make, only to see someone has already said it, I see no need to repeat what I'm saying.
And if you can't follow along with my thought process on why I've stepped away from my tubesock read, and, i was being nice about it up until this point, I'll absolutely spell it out for you: he's playing too stupid for me to expect logical and sensible responses and play from and I've gleaned that from our most recent conversation. Therefore I wont be calling him scum for not living up to the expectations that I have of him, I'm going to call him dumb town and move on to discussing other players.
So I was about to say that there is no way this lines up with the 'doesn't feel like scum' reaction to Tube not trying to make reads to save himself. But I think I'd rather ask you to reconcile those two, AMG, if you can. The thing for me is while I liked some of his posting independently, the scumreads are pretty boring. "You didn't talk to me when I had a different read" @tube "You said people when I only am scumreading one person" "you say you'd normally agree with the reasoning for the tube lynch" (and be wrong) "but you take issue with me jumping on it for a different reason" @prp There's like nothing whatsoever to these scumreads. By contrast, his townreads are fairly well-reasoned. I'm not quite sure what you're asking me to do here? I don't know how I can further illustrate my thought process more than what i've already put into the thread without just repeating myself. I know what it feels like when I've latched onto a scum, tubesock didn't feel like that, he felt like incoherent town. You're welcome to think my reads are boring, I disagree, I was once upon a time known for making reads that fly in the face of thread sentiment (see tubesock read) and I do not apologize for that. I'm asking you how you can reconcile: 1) Tube is town because he's not coming back with a scumread (i.e. not trying to save himself a la vivax) and 2) Tube is town because nothing he says makes sense and I can't hold him to that standard. You gave two separate narratives for your townread that do not appear to go together to me. Maybe I'm just a dunce and there's a connection I'm not seeing, but it almost seems like you forgot your reason. Why do I only get to have one reason to town read someone? Tube came back, did not do what I was expecting a scum Tube to do, and then continued to talk the same brand of nonsense he was before he disappeared. I got fed up with trying to have an actual conversation with him and realised that this isn't something you can fake as scum, ergo town and I was done speaking with him. Now lets discuss how I scum hunt since you haven't seen the pattern. I see something off. I ping them with a (occasionally obnoxious) statement. They answer, that either satisfies me and I keep walking or I dig until I get a reaction i'm satisfied with. I was unable to finish that with prplhz since he never bloody came back. My reads are much more accurate through direct interaction, as opposed to observation, where I am notoriously shit (see the last 2-3 obs threads). Sure, but usually I don't expect two different answers to the same question like the first no longer exists. Perhaps. Could you explain your prp read to me like I'm two? Particularly your issue with his scumreading you while liking others' reasoning on your scumread. On March 07 2018 12:36 AMG wrote:On March 07 2018 12:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 12:06 Tubesock wrote: I asked AMG for clarification about his "Mafia are chucking an AFK townie under the bus there" to see if it was a scum read on Fecalfeast or Rsoultin since they are the only ones pushing the Vivax lynch. Turns out he was just speaking generally so it's not a breadcrumb read. LOL I wasn't grasping at straws to scum AMG.
Moosy, do you have any scum reads outside of me? Like I'm pretty sure I'm an easy scumread since the majority of the thread scums me.... Also, I didn't think you were grasping at straws to scum AMG, I'm thinking you're grasping at straws to scum Fecal or anyone you can to get in with alignment with AMG who's thrown you the first life rope. Well, that's not happening. In case its not painfully obvious, the other person that's caught my interest today is prplhz. His attack on me was shit and I want to hear more out of him before I make my mind up for today. Frankly, Tubesock just doesn't seem to be operating on a coherent wavelength to me. At all. On March 07 2018 13:16 AMG wrote:On March 06 2018 20:18 prplhz wrote: This whole Tubesock push seems like something I'd like, but be wrong about. I'm interested in seeing where it goes though.
AMG seems to be making excuses for scumreading people. The more I read this post, the less I like it. You think the Tubesock push is something you'd normally like, but then be wrong about... so you agree with the logic? And then I'm making excuses to be on that wagon, the one you would normally like? If you'd normally like this kind of push, but you're opting out, what gives. Why are you going against your better judgement in this one? -snorts- Do you honestly think that quoting the things I saw and quoted as a bs scumread is somehow going to magically help me understand your point of view if you're town? What the hell do you even find scummy about that? No I'm just getting damn sick of repeating myself. If you can't follow along with my thought processes on those above posts then.. well I give up ? Im not asking you to repeat yourself. I understand that you say that you think it's scummy for someone to scumread you for jumping on a wagon for a different reason than the one they generally find compelling but would probably be wrong about. I want to understand WHY you think the above is scummy. Because to me his reasoning is obvious.
He says that my tubesock push is something he would normally like, and then be wrong on.
And then says I'm making up reasons to be on that wagon..
That strikes me as logically unsound and not what I would consider a natural thought process.
So I'm asking back at him which is it? Is this something you would normally like, and find my argument logically sound, or am I making up excuses to be on the wagon, and you do not agree with the argument I put forward to be on the wagon. Which is it? Because it can't bloody be both.
And why is he going against his better judgement on this case. If this is something he normally likes, but chooses to not like this time.. what's different this time?
I also don't like how he generalized my play to say im scumreading 'people', like I was doing it to multiple people, when I had exactly one scum read and one town read in the thread at that point. It's disingenuous.
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I said this long before making the switch from Tubesock to Kelsier:
Lynching an afk player at the end of D1 is not the same as chucking the cycle away. All of the D1 discussion and voting still happened (and analysis of it can still have value) even if you settle on a player who hasn't posted, at the end. The only thing that would marginalize the value of the D1 discussion is if everyone knew throughout the phase that ultimately an afk player will be lynched. That definitely has not been the case in this game. Additionally, for a player who isn't posting to flip scum in this game may not be "just dumb ass luck." While rsoul said that no-showing the game thread was more scum-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser, I think no-showing the game thread can be scum-indicative in THIS game, for ANY player, regardless of that player's personal history, given the fact that so much of the pre-game discussion revolved around the idea that the setup is heavily town-favored. Under those conditions, any player who pulled a scum role could be more likely to no-show the main thread than they ordinarily would be.
I spoke of reasons why no-shows are good lynches, and I specifically mentioned the strategy of consolidating votes on a no-show at the end of the phase if a consensus scumread could not be found (which, again, is the standard operating procedure where I normally play).
For someone to act like my switch to Kelsier just came out of nowhere, they need to have either not been paying attention, or just pretending they weren't paying attention. Which one are you, Vivax?
On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote: Paragraph 1: Explains he doesn't care that he thought prpl was scummy cause he's lynching for information and KSC is better in that regard. Doesn't make the slightest sense but whatever. Basically it's banking on KSC never posting for the rest of the game and an overly worded afk policy lynch. Good lord. This isn't even just "twisting" my words, it's putting words in my mouth that literally were never there. At what point did I supposedly ever say that I thought prpl was scummy, until after the tubesock flip? Nowhere did that ever happen, in D1. I challenged rsoul to give her reasoning for townleaning prpl, because I did not think he'd done anything to warrant a townlean. There was NOTHING to like, about his posts. I then argued with Tubesock about HIS townread on prpl, because again, I did not think prpl had done anything to warrant a townread. There was nothing to like. Tubesock argued that if prpl were scum, he would have come down more firmly on one side or the other, instead of straddling the fence. I said something like "so wishy-washyness is a town trait now?" Because it's not Town-indicative. Mafia players can straddle the fence too, not JUST town players. And yes, Kelsier was a better lynch for information, among other reasons to lynch him over either of prpl or Damdred. And no, it doesn't bank on Kelsier never posting for the rest of the game. It banks on the notion that if he returns and he's Town, his value to the Town team is likely to be drastically lower than his value to the Scum team if he returns and is Scum. IF he is Scum, then for all I know, he's been following the game and participating in the scum thread the whole way.
On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote: Paragraph 2: Something about his subjective experience about what players do who don't participate D1 as further justification. lol, yeah. Our own personal experiences will weigh into basically every decision we ever make in these games.
On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote: Paragraph 3: The bolded stands for b as in bullshit cause we've had discussion revolving around tubesock, prpl to a lesser extent, df all day and Noob basically ignored all of that in his decision on who to put his vote on. And that's already an invalid premise to his entire paragraph since he's claiming there was no consensus anywhere when he was in the thread while df had 3 votes and was leading wagon if I recall correctly. Yeah, there'd been discussion about tubesock, with ME largely driving it. Discussion which had STALLED, before I relented and took my vote off of Tubesock (since, as I said, having my vote on Tubesock looked about as productive as having my vote on the Easter Bunny) and moved it to somewhere that it could actually factor into the D1 lynch: Onto the no-show fallback option. 3 votes on DF is hardly any kind of "consensus" in a 13-player game, and prpl never even had *that* many votes on him (and was a worse D1 lynch candidate than prpl for reasons already outlined).
DF is even less of a "consensus" pick at 3 votes, when you consider that rsoul and I both opposed his lynching. Holyflare was trying to get DF into a noose. Which 2 players would hinder that goal the MOST, if there were to be resistance from them? I'd posit those 2 players would be...rsoul and myself. Those were the 2 players it would be toughest to force a lynch past, if they didn't want it. Because we were 2 of the most active players, and we were 2 players who were being widely townread (especially me). It's going to be tough to get the rest of the players to fall in line with a DF lynch, if they are townreading me and/or rsoul, and know that we think DF isn't a good lynch.
Kelsier was a good lynch. Why him over prpl? To reiterate...
1) A player who knows Kelsier better than I do (rsoul) had told us that a no-show from HIM is more scum-indicative than the baseline (and hence, more scum-indicative for him than for chaoser, who she didn't seem to know much about).
2) I had already described why I thought a no-show from any player in this game is more scum-indicative than the baseline (based on the setup), regardless of their personal history.
3) I have explained why I think lynching a no-show is preferred, over lynching a low-activity player. I've said that's how I was taught, and I've said I think the logic is sound (it has also yielded good results for me).
4) Pushing a prpl lynch past rsoul would have been difficult for the same reasons pushing a DF lynch past her would have been difficult. She expressed that she didn't want it, she was being townread by a decent portion of players, she was active, and her posts were mostly being respected (with only HF being dismissive, and other players generally acting like her opinions are worth considering and reacting to).
5) But despite #4 above, if she doesn't want a Kelsier lynch...there isn't shit she can do about it. If she's scummates with DF, she can argue against the lynch, and make it sound good. If she's scummates with prpl, she can argue against the lynch, and make it sound good. If she's scummates with Kelsier? She's STUCK. Because she'd already said that the no-show was scum-indicative for Kelsier and Vivax. When pushing Vivax into a noose didn't work, she failed to move on to Kelsier. But she sure as hell can't try to save him.
6) Based on #1 and #5, seeing Kelsier's flip actually helps me fine-tune my read on another player too! Regardless of his alignment. That is NOT a luxury you always get, in a Day 1 lynch.
Now, I have already said I agree that with the benefit of Tubesock's flip, prpl's comment on how a push against Tubesock would likely turn out to be wrong, could be reflective of "TMI." prpl is a better kill now, than he was on Day 1.
Kelsier was already a good kill on Day 1, and he is ALSO a better kill now, than he was on Day 1. Day 1 we have no indication of whether he's a scum player that is just avoiding the main thread, or if he's legitimately no-showed the game so far. If it's the second one, we may never see him at all. If it's the first one, we KNOW we will. He'll show up sometime in N1 and make some posts, and prevent the mod-kill. And...here he is! His return to the thread during N1 mathematically improves the odds that he is Scum.
It also occurred to me during Day 1, that if there was exactly (and only) 1 mafia member in the Vivax/Kelsier/chaoser grouping, then that guy could easily have decided that he wasn't going to make a post in the main thread until both of the other 2 had shown up. As long as you're not the only one doing it, go ahead and ride it as long as you can. Vivax shows up, still no Kelsier. Alakaslam shows up...and it magically summons Kelsier, not even an hour later. A lurking Scum Kelsier is basically coerced to go ahead and enter the thread at that point (as opposed to waiting until later in the N1 phase) or we will begin to wonder why events have transpired as they have, instead of another way.
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Koshi has replaced Damdred.
As a reminder, please do not discuss replacements.
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AMG what's your current read on Noobking?
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He keeps posting giant piles of words that I haven't had enough coffee to read. It's 5am here.
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Hi all. Haven't read anything. Wont read anything soon.
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On March 09 2018 03:59 AMG wrote: He keeps posting giant piles of words that I haven't had enough coffee to read. It's 5am here.
Any preference for who should be vigged? Lynch ideas for tomorrow?
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On March 09 2018 04:05 Koshi wrote: Hi all. Haven't read anything. Wont read anything soon.
Just read Damdred's filter and pretend you are Damdred for this game.
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On March 09 2018 03:43 Vivax wrote: And df needs to get in here cause I want to know what his action is going to be.
I don't see a better play he could think of where he doesn't tell town who he's doccing. He needs to play with open cards now or explain why not.
I'm gonna vigmedic prplhz and I suggest the other medic(s) to do the same. HF "healing" me is dumb but I'm used to it.
Also I like your post about n00b's read on me (i.e. the question that doesn't want to be answered thing)
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On March 08 2018 19:21 Holyflare wrote: Other medic(s) just heal prplhz. I either get df killed and he's town or nothing happens and we go from there. Maybe that will actually help you come to some kind of consensus.
Sounds like a superb plan! What could go wrong?
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On March 09 2018 04:07 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 03:59 AMG wrote: He keeps posting giant piles of words that I haven't had enough coffee to read. It's 5am here. Any preference for who should be vigged? Lynch ideas for tomorrow?
I fundamentally disagree with a majority of what n00bking is saying right now, but I still think he's town.
Yeah to absolutely no one's surprise I want prplhz flipped. If he's town then I'm back to the drawingboard.
As for tomorrow, I'm at a loss and I'm hoping the night kill/s give me a better direction to head in.
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On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote:This is from your post where you reply to HF about DF. Show nested quote + So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking.
Technically the reason is that he is a type of player who is held at a higher standard regarding activity and post quality. lol, IF THAT'S TRUE, then I wish someone had actually said so, when I asked someone (ANYone) in the thread to back that notion.
On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote: Me, HF and rsoultin all noticed something being off about him pretty quickly. Yet here you are asking a question that doesn't want an answer about whether he is lackluster compared to his other town games How is that a question that doesn't want an answer? Man, if I don't want an answer to that question, I can just NOT ask it. That would be REAL easy. Or I could have waited to post it until much later, and allowed less time for people to see and comment on it. I didn't. There was plenty of time for people to see and comment on it, and then for us to decide how/whether it should influence the notion of a DF lynch.
It wasn't a question that doesn't want an answer. It was a question that didn't GET an answer.
Vivax wrote: So either you are unbelievably stubborn and tend to think the opposite of the majority for no apparent reason, or you just make up your reads. Tending towards the latter but I'm also biased at this point :> If DF ever turns out to be scum, and you and I are both still alive, we can have a conversation about me forcing a townread on him against your alleged "majority" (which was actually like 3 people). If DF ever turns out to be town, I think that conversation is over. I can't really see any way to scumread me for: abandoning my original lynch target with 1 hour to go (who was Town) and defending the counterwagon (also town, in this hypothetical) and then leaving, and just crossing my fingers and hoping the noose doesn't fall onto one of my teammates. Working to keep DF out of the noose in that scenario couldn't possibly make less sense, especially once DF claims medic, which would've made it trivially easy to just go "oh, you're claiming medic? That makes you mathematically more likely to be scum now. Die." Boom, dead Town medic, and a BULLETPROOF alibi for me sticking him in the noose.
On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote: Who would you vote to vig tonight? The kills I like are prpl and Kelsier.
I maintain that I do not like the idea of having DF go off and heal a secret target of his choosing. I maintain that HF is actively damaging the Town's best interests, if he refuses to follow thread sentiment regarding his target.
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Lol townmedic!HF ensuring he kills another townmedic N1 would surely be superb.
Mafia will probably shoot HF (if he's actually town and/or townmedic) and medic me, potentially killing 2/3 town medics in one night. Really really stellar idea.
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Canada11355 Posts
Nice you and me both koshi
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