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On May 06 2018 00:45 Bourgeois wrote: Batman The Dark Knight? BEST MOVIE EVER. X-Men First Class? BEST MOVIE EVER. Deadpool? BEST MOVIE EVER. Logan? BEST MOVIE EVER. Thor: Ragnarok? BEST MOVIE EVER.
I believe you left out Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Watchmen (which is definitely the best DC universe movie to date along with the first 2 Batman movies - Michael Keaton best Batman).
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On May 06 2018 00:45 Bourgeois wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2018 17:21 [Phantom] wrote: Well while this movie is one of the best super hero movies and definitely great, it doesn't hold up if you stop to analize it really. Like the infinity stones should be so powerful it would be literally impossible to defeat him. He controls reality. He controls time. He can control his enemies. He can't lose. He wins in the end but he is not very creative with what he does. I've seen some people explaining it like he was toying with everyone, I did see some of that I guess.
But yeah they changed his motivation and it doesn't make sense now. In the comics he wants to kill people to seduce death. While being in love with death is kinda stupid, that's his whole identity (Thanos-thanatos-thanatology, etc). Killing half the universe would make death happy. Like people here are saying, with the guantlett he could make planets bigger, or have infinite resources. I agree with him overpopulation is a problem, I feel his pain having to kill gamora "for the greater good" but his solution is stupid. He could do anything. He has all the infinity stones. He is a god, he is omnipotent. But we ended up with this problem thanks to marvel changing his motivations, and not his method.
Don't get me wrong though. Loved the movie. One just isn't suppoused to think too much about it.
Meh, my analises of the movie is that like many of these sorts of movies, there's always so much hype surrounding them when they first come out every loves them. Batman The Dark Knight? BEST MOVIE EVER. X-Men First Class? BEST MOVIE EVER. Deadpool? BEST MOVIE EVER. Logan? BEST MOVIE EVER. Thor: Ragnarok? BEST MOVIE EVER. Likewise for these average Avenger movies. I found that Infinity War had way too little character development for you to want to feel for any of them. Gamorra dying? Meh. That Chris guy getting mad about her dying? Meh. Vision and Wanda's love for each other? Meh. Spiderman having a few scenes then dying at the end? Meh. Not enough development, so that when they died, you didn't really feel much. I guess you could argue if you saw the previous movies, you'd feel more, but I've seen all the Marvel movies and it still felt disconnected. Plus, the bad guys were all not very threatening nor made you feel like there was any big threat from them in the movie, they looked like they came out of a Ninja Turtles movie. Everyone praises Thanos' acting, but he felt very cartoony to me, and the whole "I just want people to understand me" thing just didn't work because he wasn't really that dark of a character to make it work.
Strongly disagree, unless this is literally the first Marvel movie (out of the 19) that you've actually seen. All of the hero and relationship development, from StarLord and Gamora's love to Spiderman's eagerness to please Tony Stark, have been developed over literally dozens of hours of movies. That wasn't the point of this movie at all, as the premise was that you've already seen the previous movies. Infinity War gave context to Thanos, but other than that was trying to manage the entire Avengers universe in multiple spots with several crossovers.
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On May 06 2018 03:17 LegalLord wrote: I don't think it (the bad ending) worked. This is a Marvel movie, we all know ahead of time that in the grand scheme of things none of this will matter and the key franchise characters will come back. I do give props to the movie for a brief moment of self-awareness about that fact though: Thor talks to the rabbit about how Loki died, but makes mention of "well he was dead once before but..." as if to tease what we're pretty damn sure is going to happen before too long. And Disney isn't the type of corporate master to call our bluff and actually kill off key characters for good, so I'm not worried about that part.
I think this movie got good reviews because the people watching it liked it. I think the critics gave it middling reviews because they saw notable flaws. This one is straightforward. It was a classic MCU watch-and-forget movie - but I guess for Avengers I expected something more.
I don't think I have ever seen you say you really enjoyed something. A little curious what you really enjoy as a movie/show . I'm not the biggest marvel guy, I watch the movies eventually but I was surprised at how good this one was. The other Avenger movies weren't bad, but nothing spectacular (imo).
I saw this movie and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Good action, for the most part I had no complaints. There was one scene that I thought was stupid, but that was pretty short and not that big of a deal. Wouldn't call this the best movie ever made or my favorite movie ever, but it surpassed my expectations a lot and am looking forward to seeing part 2 next year.
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United Kingdom13774 Posts
On May 06 2018 13:31 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2018 03:17 LegalLord wrote: I don't think it (the bad ending) worked. This is a Marvel movie, we all know ahead of time that in the grand scheme of things none of this will matter and the key franchise characters will come back. I do give props to the movie for a brief moment of self-awareness about that fact though: Thor talks to the rabbit about how Loki died, but makes mention of "well he was dead once before but..." as if to tease what we're pretty damn sure is going to happen before too long. And Disney isn't the type of corporate master to call our bluff and actually kill off key characters for good, so I'm not worried about that part.
I think this movie got good reviews because the people watching it liked it. I think the critics gave it middling reviews because they saw notable flaws. This one is straightforward. It was a classic MCU watch-and-forget movie - but I guess for Avengers I expected something more. I don't think I have ever seen you say you really enjoyed something. A little curious what you really enjoy as a movie/show . I'm not the biggest marvel guy, I watch the movies eventually but I was surprised at how good this one was. The other Avenger movies weren't bad, but nothing spectacular (imo). Well criticism doesn’t really mean I didn’t like it. For reference, the only piece of media I commented on around here that I think of as a total wash is Star Wars Ep 8. Of you’re asking what I really enjoyed, that’s a short list (though I contend that it should be). Among the Marvel movies? Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier were quite good, though seems like that isn’t an outlandish opinion at all.
Good storytelling is a major flaw here. That general flaw of MCU movies rears its ugly head here again, and makes it hard to see it as more than a popcorn movie, a watch-and-forget. You get your fill by the first viewing. Got my fill for my $10, but is there really anything more to the movie worth considering?
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People tend to forget that marvel movies are a saga now. On its own, Infinity wars is not an outstanding piece of art, like movies should be. But it's a great follow up, and an epic work from their filmmakers to bring us this movie. story telling is not about one movie now. It's about 19 of them. Look at the big picture.
The trilogy Iron man, Thor and captain america brought us this movie. The three of them are awsome in their evolution. What they lost. What they did. What they do now. It's good. I expect the same thing for futur heroes like spiderman, black panther and dr strange.
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On May 06 2018 14:09 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2018 13:31 blade55555 wrote:On May 06 2018 03:17 LegalLord wrote: I don't think it (the bad ending) worked. This is a Marvel movie, we all know ahead of time that in the grand scheme of things none of this will matter and the key franchise characters will come back. I do give props to the movie for a brief moment of self-awareness about that fact though: Thor talks to the rabbit about how Loki died, but makes mention of "well he was dead once before but..." as if to tease what we're pretty damn sure is going to happen before too long. And Disney isn't the type of corporate master to call our bluff and actually kill off key characters for good, so I'm not worried about that part.
I think this movie got good reviews because the people watching it liked it. I think the critics gave it middling reviews because they saw notable flaws. This one is straightforward. It was a classic MCU watch-and-forget movie - but I guess for Avengers I expected something more. I don't think I have ever seen you say you really enjoyed something. A little curious what you really enjoy as a movie/show . I'm not the biggest marvel guy, I watch the movies eventually but I was surprised at how good this one was. The other Avenger movies weren't bad, but nothing spectacular (imo). Well criticism doesn’t really mean I didn’t like it. For reference, the only piece of media I commented on around here that I think of as a total wash is Star Wars Ep 8. Of you’re asking what I really enjoyed, that’s a short list (though I contend that it should be). Among the Marvel movies? Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier were quite good, though seems like that isn’t an outlandish opinion at all. Good storytelling is a major flaw here. That general flaw of MCU movies rears its ugly head here again, and makes it hard to see it as more than a popcorn movie, a watch-and-forget. You get your fill by the first viewing. Got my fill for my $10, but is there really anything more to the movie worth considering?
Ah, so you enjoyed the first Avengers over this one? I don't blame you for the Star Wars movie, I have the same opinion. Never left a theater hating a movie so much until that one.
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United Kingdom13774 Posts
Yeah, first Avengers was definitely better. Though this one is probably better than #2.
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I actually liked the movie, I think it has to be appreciated from a different standpoint in what Marvel is attempting to do but for it to be a labeled a superhero movie and us to expect redemption and closure, is clearly what this movie was not about. I think it's a little distasteful to end on a cliffhanger / to be continued...because that's generally not the format of movies and more of tv shows/episodes so for Marvel to go this route, the only implication is, there's a major explanation coming up.
I thought the movie was thought-provoking, it made you pay attention to where perhaps, the heroes have planted seeds of hope unbeknownst to the viewer, to turn the tides, that Thanos and his galactic team perhaps may not be aware of. BUT that line was obscured with which I believe this time around, somewhat inconsistent if not poor and rushed writing. Fantasy as always is easier to enjoy when the "powers" have a limit for fans to theory craft and the writers to keep things in check. But in this case, Marvel is reaching a point where the power of the characters will write them into a corner. and quite frankly, Thanos on the deity power scale is actually near the lower end of the spectrum, i can't foresee how marvel introduces the other godly deities. I think they did a fairly good job at attempting to avoid some of the major plot holes in the powers of the infinity stones, but the elephant in the room is there so i'll list a few inconsistencies with the movie I largely disliked and the focus on what they choose to display via CGI. But i'll also list a few things I believe they did a great job in.
Pros:
1. The Actor for Thanos did a good job. It was convincing in setting the narrative he "loved" his daughter for her inevitable build up to be sacrificed. they slowed the pace of the movie and the actor made sure to slow down the tone of his speech, mannerisms, it was good writing and acting. Though it does hurt them that guardians of the galaxy were an older movie, and most may have a hard time empathizing with something done quite a while ago. It was also very predictable in the scene of the soul stone when the seeker exposed a condition to inherit it and there were 2 people there...for a stone that governs all souls (whatever that means) a single soul of the one you love is a small price for universal power.
2. The consistencies of the personalities. so I thought this was very well done, and wrote into the script correctly. a disorganized ragtag team trapping Thanos on his hometown, with very little time to plan leaves very little room for them to make things go right. And you factor into the behavior of the guardians of the galaxy, the outcome of Thanos breaking free cause of him being emotional, felt true to the characters expected behavior.
3. Humanity In Desperation. So what I did very much enjoy was the humanity the heroes displayed in their most desperate moments. I think it was a narrative beautifully written. Every stone possessor chose to offer it in the end, to save someone else, either someone they loved or someone they were indebted to. And it was even more powerful in the first scene since Loki's struggling moral compass of betraying his brother was a common theme in all movies prior but in his final moments, disregards the manipulative nature and shows loyalty in his final decision. what the writers were attempting to portray was, they cared about them more than the universe, and if not, it showed their true traces of humanity which could not make that sacrifice. Stupid, but human.
Loki chose to offer the stone to save thor The daughter chose to offer the stone to save her sister Strange offered the stone to save Stark Vision offered his stone to be destroyed, Scarlett's hesitancy, took away the only power which could counter Thanos with 6 stones.
(he stated in the beginning, he would trade their very lives for it if it came to that, and it did) what's even more compelling is strange being a man who's seen as indifferent to emotions, one who's calculating and prioritizes the fate of the world before a human life. So this judgment was very much against the nature of who he was as a hero. I thought it was actually quite well written due to the open-ended nature of a man that saw all possibilities but what seemed to be him discarding logic all together OR the one possibility for the survival of the universe was to forfeit the stone and spare Iron man's life. (due to the fact he saw all outcomes before their battle, he was probably aware who would die in the aftermath of Thanos using all 6 stones and the scenario in which they would win, the only from that aftermath or tony, was clearly the key if they even sacraficed Nick Fury who is supposedly the last line of defence)
Thanos was the only one to trade a loved one, for a stone.
4. Appreciation & Resolving Some Open-Ended Details of Black Panther. I thought black panther was absolutely amazing in its entirety. There were decisions in the lore which were open-ended, and they were made clear in avenger which I thought was actually amazing. So it puts in perspective how Black Panther was not only a movie to build up the character, it set the premise of avenger. It wasn't clear to me some of the aspects the writers chose to go with in portraying black panther a few questions were
- Why did they choose to make africa and wakanda, the highest tech super power? - Why devalue the concept of vibranium by making it abundant to only africa? when the concept of vibranium was so rare and scarce, a resource ultron fought and killed for. A shield built upon it which imo made the appeal of Captain america so much more alluring. - Why was wakanda isolated and hidden if they were also the highest super power in technology? (The implication is who can oppose them)
So in avenger, we find out - The only person capable of technological surgery on vision is the genius which resides in wakanda. - The warriors stood a chance in this fight due to the tech and also vibranium weapons, which still was moot against the power of thanos - Wakanda's barrier and hidden location was also the safest to hide vision and buy time for the surgery. - The tribal aspect of different leaders of wakanda, served the purpose for the battle ground and there was use in the army.
BUT the only poorly addressed point is, if wakanda was portrayed as being such a hidden society due to it's technological advancement and use of vibranium (To the point where even hut villages were unware of it's existence to protect them) How does an alien scout and Thanos were capable of navigating earth and not only navigating earth find the one country with an invisible barrier which alluded all others? it's not like they had a tracker for every stone, and thano's gauntlet was used only to harness the power, not track the others. While wakanda was revealed to others at the end of black panther to offer up knowledge to the rest of the world, how does an alien lifeform which has no knowledge of any of this, become aware of a location which JUST revealed itself.
Cons & Inconsistencies with what was portrayed. 1. There's no point to a movie if you control time and space. - if you control time, space, and you've demonstrated you can change matter and reality in an entire room in an instant upon someone's arrival, there's no reason for you to not spam that and just win. which obviously the writers are aware so they chose a different approach to demonstrating the power of different stones so the Avengers actually fought together and got close. The display of struggle was there which I enjoyed, as it felt despite the obvious forces which seemed unstoppable on the Avenger's side, they felt mortal. the powers which seemed op before now seems lacking.
2. The 2 biggest unknown threats to Thanos, were rendered useless or victimized. Completely inconsistent with the buildup of their characters.
Vision was supposed to be the accumulation of Ultron, bruce banner, iron man, with THE TOP OF THE LINE AI, with a body made of Vibranium, embedded with a vision stone to further expand that power into infinity. AN AI that has that much time to live and learn, should have an inhuman response time and be as close to omnipotent as the knowledge that currently exists in the world. but so easily was he subdued to sneak attacks, and someone just clawing at his head without any resistance....what was the point of his entire build up if the inevitable autonomous IQ which no human, alien, sentient being could match, was rendered useless because he chose to become emotionally unstable? really? with that processing power and body, you chose to become a hesitant human? with delayed reactions? your processing power and AI was further expanded through the vision stone embedded through your head which was revealed via neural connections, but you couldn't use it to see a surprise attack or an incoming alien threat? all you could use the vision stone for was a laser? come on marvel.... the stone gave him pain as an indicator it detected when other stones were near or coming, but the people who came did not have the stone, they were the scouts...and he lost to them...really? It cheapens the value of the character and renders the struggle of Ultron mute. He could subdue an Ultron but couldn't sense a surprise attack in a quiet environment along with a response time that they shouldn't even be able to match? get real.
The Hulk - So this one I'm a little bit more lenient on, but felt it was uncharacteristically rushed. Hulk is basically the earth's trump card, he's supposed to be a representation of no matter how hard you hit him, he always gets back up and hits harder until the opposition gives up. The literal embodiment of unstoppable force meets an unmovable wall, he was the physical force in this case. His fights in all movies portray him being hit and extremely resilient, only until a catastrophic damage was done to the environment, and everyone is near death, does he stop. Thanos? he ends him in a 5 hit combo. And marvel covered this one up with him starting with the power stone to explain it. the build-up was basically gutted in the first scene. They could have drawn it out a little bit more until he exhausted trading blows for AT LEAST 5 minutes, it cheapened the character and was inconsistent in his entire build up. Even worst, he was punched into mental submission and withdrawal all for the sake of setting up the narrative to how powerful the stone is, which did not work. not to mention this is the first scene and Thanos was powered by only 1 stone. It feels like Hulk should be more powerful than at least 1 stone....and to make Thanos resilient to physical damage by the hulk equal to him is stupid. yes with the stone he should hit harder, it does not equate to being impervious to the damage Hulk can deal.
Not to mention The gatekeeper of Midgard in his dying breath chose to open the portal to save the HULK than a stranded Thor & Loki (Who he probably knows holds the stone). Either he saved hulk out of empathy or him believing hulk was the one thing that would give them a chance in the future, is up for debate. The gatekeeper is one who has a duty to Thor, and is the one who bails them out in the past, for him to choose another entity who was briefly with them in the past, is questionable.
3. Dr.Strange Strange's role, in particular, was the biggest gripe of the movie considering what Marvel chose to display in terms of his powers and the actions he chose to face the circumstances. For a guy who's supposed to have the ability to read all outcomes of all futures, and be a sensor prior to an imminent alien threat, for him to not forsee Thanos OR ANY of this occurring, contradicts the character. he's supposed to be the guy that is aware of things before they happen in the galaxy and he wasn't even aware of Thanos being an entity or collecting power and actually flexing his power in the galactic. In one of the Thor movies, strange was aware of the appearance of Loki and Thor upon their arrival at earth prior to their arrival, and they came from Midgard. so there's no excuse for him not being at least aware of the existence of Thanos, but apparently, that came from left field. So a big inconsistency in his role as a hero along with his powers.
Strange's fight with the Alien Officer. For a guy who is known as a trickster, a magician with many tricks up his sleeve, and one that is trusted with one of the powers of the universe, you sure lose easy. If capturing him meant simply subduing his hands, and choking him (which is exactly how he lost) then he might as well be vulnerable to 2 cops ambushing him by throwing cuffs on him and the other guy putting him in a stranglehold. He struggled and basically lost to an alien entity that was not on Thano's level but when faced against Thanos, held his own far longer vs someone almost fully powered and controlled time and space - contradictory. A guy who didn't have the stones gave you more trouble than a guy who possessed the power of time and space and blasted his powers at you but you could trade shots and at least undo his offensive? get real. You can allude the guy for a short period who could bend reality and change matter, but you couldn't escape the vines and invisible force of his scouting party?
My final gripe. So Marvel decided to show strange's teleportation power in a way that dismembered a limb of one of the aliens who tried to pass through the gate. which should be good foreshadowing for how he would use that against Thanos. but marvel goes the route of, hey we're gonna put the highest IQ guys in the galaxy with powers all in one place, but none of them even entertain the possibility of chopping his arm off, for a guy who could foresee 146 million outcomes and 1 possibility, that 1 possibility wasn't the severing of his arm and glove and everything they portrayed alluded to it. So this is writing yourself into a corner and extremely inconsistent. Marvel could have easily shown a different use of his power but they showed the gate teleportation had the ability to dismember a limb. Not to mention when spiderman and ironman struggled to pull the glove, he had all the time in the world to server the limb but for some reason did nothing. He showed no restraint or limitation in his use of teleportation wormhole either, which is something the writers didn't account for.
So this ties back to the other heroes with the capability of severing his flesh/arm. Vision's lasers were powered by the infinity stone, and I'm sure the power of his lasers could at LEAST pierce flesh. I mean you're shooting from an infinity stone...it wasn't like Thanos was invulnerable to the powers of the infinity stone used against him either... Thor was given an AXE in the FINALE, which was SHOWN to pierce his flesh despite Thanos using his power to even mitigate/dampen the oncoming blow. Of course, Thor drops the ball here, as he always has in every fight, and he goes for the heart instead of the arm. Couldn't you sever the nerves in the shoulder? it didn't even have to be a clean sweep of the arm or elbow, just sever the connection of the brain and arm at a higher point up. like literally the greatest scientist in sci-fi humanity never thought to compound the damage on the glove itself or to sever a vulnerable arm? hard to believe vision, iron man, bruce banner and even strange couldn't notice that as an alternative option but could figure out the science of AI, Nanotechnology, and everything else under the sun. Chopping the arm off apparently wasn't on the table or in the possibility of 146 million outcomes, too primitive.
Strange utilizing the time-stone (Which he is seen levitating, his stone exposed green, and prior to saying he sees 146 million outcomes). He could use the stone to forsee the future, but never used the time-stone to revert back time or reset a failed battle engagement or the results of his battle. Strange also stated the barrier on his necklace guarding the stone was unbreakable, but we see him easily handing it over in the end. So much for disallowing all including yourself from taking it.
Wrapping up the loop-holes in the character's power by having strange say I've seen all outcomes, so there are no loopholes in what we did and our actions were inevitable. IS TERRIBLE WRITING and a shitty failsafe for people who have written themselves into a corner.
Last but not least, they could have added 10 minutes more to flesh out how Thano's scouting party, were even AWARE of the location of the stones. Yeah they were aware of 2 stones being on earth, but you can't tell me an alien entity which SUDDENLY knows the location a hidden civilization, cloaked by a barrier, and has kept that a secret of their existence for all time in Marvel history. They didn't have a tracker for the stones, and they rushed the transitions...Vision had a stone and couldn't comprehend the emanating signal it gave off in his head, only until it already came, how could you pinpoint the location of all the other stones having never visited or dabbled in human history.
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Awesome write-up and pros/cons list, saocyn. Keep in mind when you said "I think it's a little distasteful to end on a cliffhanger / to be continued", we already knew that Infinity War was going to be broken into two parts over two years. It had been advertised as such, so it was fully expected that the first movie would end on a cliffhanger and then next year's movie would wrap everything up. (It probably won't address any of your valid cons, but at least we knew ahead of time that things were going to look really bleak for the Marvel heroes at this point in time.)
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On the Dr. Strange side of things, I'm convinced he's done something to the time stone and that this will be a major plot point in the next avengers, given how he says something like "we're in the endgame now" when giving up the stone and then proceeds to do nothing.
Personally, I'm hoping Ant-Man is in some universe inside the time stone.
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Mexico2170 Posts
To saocyn you say
Thanos? he ends him in a 5 hit combo. And marvel covered this one up with him starting with the power stone to explain it. the build-up was basically gutted in the first scene. They could have drawn it out a little bit more until he exhausted trading blows for AT LEAST 5 minutes, it cheapened the character and was inconsistent in his entire build up. Even worst, he was punched into mental submission and withdrawal all for the sake of setting up the narrative to how powerful the stone is, which did not work. not to
I understood this as thanos just being more powerful than hulk. I don't think he used the power stone. Thanos is though guy. He is a Titan, he is known across the galaxy as being very strong before having any stone. He isn't a weakling that lucked out and got all the stones. He is a mighty being, feared across the galaxy, who commands a big army, that decided to get the stones. While hulk gets stronger when he gets angry and I believe he can be stronger than thanos, at that time he wasn't. The scene was meant to show how strong Thanos was.
About Dr strange, he couldn't have predicted this. The stone lets him see the possibilities, but not what will actually happen. So before that there were 80 million things that could have happened, some of them including Thanos some not. You can't prepare for everything. However now that he is here and they were going to fight him on Titan, that was much more specific so he saw all the different outcomes. If he had done that before he would have seen countless possibilities like dormamu stacking back or Wanda going rogue or venom or anythingloli destroying the tesseract idk.
But on Titan he only had to see how the battle with Thanos and the aftermath would play out. So he prepared for that with the only option where they win, giving up the stone and with Tony Stark alive. He didn't saw all possibilities though so taking out the guantlett was worth a try. No excuses for the severing his arm thing though
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On May 07 2018 02:54 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2018 14:09 LegalLord wrote:On May 06 2018 13:31 blade55555 wrote:On May 06 2018 03:17 LegalLord wrote: I don't think it (the bad ending) worked. This is a Marvel movie, we all know ahead of time that in the grand scheme of things none of this will matter and the key franchise characters will come back. I do give props to the movie for a brief moment of self-awareness about that fact though: Thor talks to the rabbit about how Loki died, but makes mention of "well he was dead once before but..." as if to tease what we're pretty damn sure is going to happen before too long. And Disney isn't the type of corporate master to call our bluff and actually kill off key characters for good, so I'm not worried about that part.
I think this movie got good reviews because the people watching it liked it. I think the critics gave it middling reviews because they saw notable flaws. This one is straightforward. It was a classic MCU watch-and-forget movie - but I guess for Avengers I expected something more. I don't think I have ever seen you say you really enjoyed something. A little curious what you really enjoy as a movie/show . I'm not the biggest marvel guy, I watch the movies eventually but I was surprised at how good this one was. The other Avenger movies weren't bad, but nothing spectacular (imo). Well criticism doesn’t really mean I didn’t like it. For reference, the only piece of media I commented on around here that I think of as a total wash is Star Wars Ep 8. Of you’re asking what I really enjoyed, that’s a short list (though I contend that it should be). Among the Marvel movies? Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier were quite good, though seems like that isn’t an outlandish opinion at all. Good storytelling is a major flaw here. That general flaw of MCU movies rears its ugly head here again, and makes it hard to see it as more than a popcorn movie, a watch-and-forget. You get your fill by the first viewing. Got my fill for my $10, but is there really anything more to the movie worth considering? Ah, so you enjoyed the first Avengers over this one? I don't blame you for the Star Wars movie, I have the same opinion. Never left a theater hating a movie so much until that one.
SOMEone needs to watch X Men 3: The Last Stand, I see...
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On May 08 2018 08:22 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2018 02:54 blade55555 wrote:On May 06 2018 14:09 LegalLord wrote:On May 06 2018 13:31 blade55555 wrote:On May 06 2018 03:17 LegalLord wrote: I don't think it (the bad ending) worked. This is a Marvel movie, we all know ahead of time that in the grand scheme of things none of this will matter and the key franchise characters will come back. I do give props to the movie for a brief moment of self-awareness about that fact though: Thor talks to the rabbit about how Loki died, but makes mention of "well he was dead once before but..." as if to tease what we're pretty damn sure is going to happen before too long. And Disney isn't the type of corporate master to call our bluff and actually kill off key characters for good, so I'm not worried about that part.
I think this movie got good reviews because the people watching it liked it. I think the critics gave it middling reviews because they saw notable flaws. This one is straightforward. It was a classic MCU watch-and-forget movie - but I guess for Avengers I expected something more. I don't think I have ever seen you say you really enjoyed something. A little curious what you really enjoy as a movie/show . I'm not the biggest marvel guy, I watch the movies eventually but I was surprised at how good this one was. The other Avenger movies weren't bad, but nothing spectacular (imo). Well criticism doesn’t really mean I didn’t like it. For reference, the only piece of media I commented on around here that I think of as a total wash is Star Wars Ep 8. Of you’re asking what I really enjoyed, that’s a short list (though I contend that it should be). Among the Marvel movies? Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier were quite good, though seems like that isn’t an outlandish opinion at all. Good storytelling is a major flaw here. That general flaw of MCU movies rears its ugly head here again, and makes it hard to see it as more than a popcorn movie, a watch-and-forget. You get your fill by the first viewing. Got my fill for my $10, but is there really anything more to the movie worth considering? Ah, so you enjoyed the first Avengers over this one? I don't blame you for the Star Wars movie, I have the same opinion. Never left a theater hating a movie so much until that one. SOMEone needs to watch X Men 3: The Last Stand, I see...
I have. I would rather watch that again then TLJ . This Avengers movie was my favorite though by far.
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So my assessment was based on just my knowledge of the MCU movies, and I have changed my stance in some my viewpoints after reading the original comics. (the ones from like 60's-80's)
Along with reading articles about the directors, screen writer's thought process on the creation of this movie, I'm far more considerate of what was on their plate in attempting to make this movie. I actually have far more respect what the decisions they made based on the constraints that they do have in attempting to tell this narrative for the 21st century. so I have revised my stance and viewpoints on some of which I thought were cons/inconsistencies from what I discovered digging deeper into the history of the comics and company.
1. It's An Interpretation, not a direct translation.
The Russo brothers describe in an interview that viewers shouldn't look at it from a direct translation perspective, but an interpretation perspective. This explains a lot in terms of the lore and their decision process in adapting the comics. The time of my review, I also wasn't aware marvel doesn't currently own the rights to a few superhero franchises which were originally featured in the ORIGINAL COMICS due to almost going bankrupt and having to sell off some of them. Only until recently have they been able to acquire some of the franchises back, most notably spiderman.
This would explain a lot since they are forced to swap original characters out that they don't own while attempting to stay true to the original narrative. It then becomes a juggle of filling in the blank and explain scenarios which never occurred while attempting to blend that back into the timeline. So the glaring contrast and plot holes are going to seem prevalent due to the nature of staying true to the original story, while not having their original roster.
Most notably, X-men & Fantastic 4 had major roles in the original avenger's infinity war. An example is in the first scene where the Asgardian gatekeeper sends hulk back to earth in order to warn Dr. Strange because was defeated. In the comics, silver surfer drops dazed into the roof of dr.strange's household in order to warn him as a messenger of incoming doom. So the screenwriters did their best in patching the narrative and apparently, Hulk was chosen to fade into the background. It reasons to stand their choice of choosing the hulk not to be a significant factor in the movie was consistent with the comics in that, he very rarely fought Thanos and didn't have much of an appearance either! So if we look back at them portraying the Hulk defeated, and to fulfill the plothole of requiring a messenger, it fits. Their struggles come from the directors attempting to build value into the characters and make them feel like "superheroes with superpowers" and then the audience wondering why they didn't use that superpower in the new movies. It's not quite their fault and the fans who aren't aware of this will make it the bane of marvel's productions going forward.
2. The Motivations of characters and Storytelling of the 60's was extremely cheesy. I admit I've forgotten how comical the storytelling was back then, and how it would be impossible for them to translate that to screen directly. Looking at how they decided to go with the direction of Thanos, allows me to respect the decision making in his adaptation. In the original Thanos is portrayed as somewhat of a maniacal-drunk on power psychopath. entirely unrelatable, and over the top cliche. and in the story, he already obtained the 6 stones, before everything happened and he's using it to try and win "death's" heart. he's literally trying to seduce death with his power which would just be a horrendous failure of a movie if they attempted to adapt that. "death" being a female deity. his original I will kill half of the civilization had nothing to do with a justified cause of saving the world because of overpopulation but more to do with a promise with death he made that he thinks would make her finally accept his proposal of being her man lmfao. They really humanized his motivation and made him believable setting the tone for a worthy adversary for the heroes to stop. but this is where we see the plot holes because of such a major switch, and i'm actually looking forward to how they fill it. In the last scene we see thanos very much in the same position as the comics as well, so i'm looking foward to how they fill the gap in story.
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Just watched, and while i liked it enough I do not see it as the best of Marvel (by any stretch), and find some of the praise its getting a bit... excessive.
I think the biggest issue for me is that when everyone dies in the end, it is shown in such a strange emotionless way. Most of the people die in mid sentence while doing something else, or just have these quizzical looks on their faces - Nick Fury even has the time to drop half an F bomb before he goes. All this does not really give the kind of emotional gravity I was expecting, and more like... o, they seem a little weirded out.
The only death that had feeling was Spidey, for obvious reasons.
Other minor gripes (which I think are just part and parcel of comic book movies) are:
The power levels of characters are kinda all over the place. Thor with his new weapon is able to solo one shot Thanos with all the gems. Why is there a need for captain marvel at this point? Thor can just jaunt over to wherever Thanos is hiding and slice off his arm. Then you also have Captain America who is able to physically hold back Thanos, who at the start of the movie is shown to be more than a match for the Hulk.
The motivations of some characters are also weird. Why only send the Hulk back to Earth and not everyone? Why did Loki think his little dagger was going to kill Thanos when the Hulk just failed - what really was Loki trying to achieve there?
So if Odin had a fake Gauntlet in Asgard, does this mean that Peter Dinklage has been churning out the guantlet's all this while? But he also says that he created the gauntlet to save the other dwarves. So how long has the forge been abandoned and how long did Peter Dinklage have to live on his own with metal stumps for hands (man that is lonely)?
And yea - why did no one think of slicing off Thanos' arm - Iron Man/Spider Man/Dr Strange had the perfect chance to. Thor could have lobbed off the arm instead of going for his chest.
[these are comic book nerd ramblings, and didn:t really affect my enjoyment of the movie]
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I think a bigger issue that should be addressed when it comes specifically to super-hero franchises and ones that have unscaled "power", there should be action scenes or discussion scenes where the glaring plot holes are fleshed out as it pertains to what was shown in the past. The premise of the movie was an apocalyptic death due to obtaining power, and his power didn't quite feel believable. loyal comic fans aren't stupid, we're going to ponder and theory craft based on fantasy logic. even so, the fantasy logic should be addressed in a way that can be believable by putting to rest the possibilities shown in the past build ups. They should show the futile attempts of them plotting to cut his arm off, only for it to fail, and then have the heroes each try something else. at least iron out the most common "what-ifs" if we were put in that scenario given that context. Either don't show doctor strange's portal cutting limb, or show he tries cutting limb but all attempts are made futile to the point that if he does try it again he'll die so he won't.
While everyone did get screen time, the wit of the heroes in battle felt really lacking. I want to see great planning in these fights, team work the way captain america showed in the last avenger. Decision making that is consistent with a hero who feels experienced from battle and manipulation of their abilities.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51335 Posts
Ok so i don't do spoilers, so i don't watch trailers however for this thing i just watched i would wish i had. Mainly for the fact of knowing i needed to watch; Black Panther 3 Thors 3 Captain Americas Dr Strange
before i went into Avengers because every story seems to be linked like you should know that? I mean what. It wasn't a massive issue, but it was a good annoyance of not understanding the roles/issues previously. I mean the other films ala Spiderman and Guardians of Galaxy 1 and 2 were kept apart (Newest spiderman was kinda overlapped but very minimally) so why can't the rest.
The ending for me was so poor because in comic book world this stuff doesn't happen where half the people die and then Captain Marvel one of the worst super heroes ever (imo) will be the one to save the universe. To top it off BRIE LARSON is getting the gig LOL jesus.
Also for me the "killed off" the wrong heroes as well, should have been different set.
My "good" parts of the film was anytime Ironman and Spiderman were in scenes together as they bought good comic book lore together it felt in how they intereacted. I also liked whoever the Guardians of Galaxy cast where interacting with, whether it be Thor with Groot and Rocket. mora and her issues with Thanos were also good scenes as well as when her sister was inserted into the story again.
Everything on earth was just a total disaster and an awful side story until Thanos shows up for the last <5 mins lol.
TL;DR - What a mess and holy moly thanks Marvel for FORCING your fans to watch every movie or missing out of tidbits of story so you can't enjoy a one off movie like i thought Avengers was and its supposed to be right? Some good parts make it a watchable 6/10 thanks to Guardians cast and Ironman/Superman. Also i don't want Captain Marvel saving the universe eurgh!!!!!!!
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On May 09 2018 18:39 Pandemona wrote: The ending for me was so poor because in comic book world this stuff doesn't happen where half the people die and then Captain Marvel one of the worst super heroes ever (imo) will be the one to save the universe.
With the exception of it being Captain Marvel, that is literally what happened in the Infinity War comic. Thanos was mostly taken down by the core Avengers, plus a couple of characters they've never introduced/don't have the rights to yet. Here they're just going to use the second movie as a springboard to likely make Cap Mar the core of the next set of Avengers, which is fine.
As for the character... I'd have said the same about Black Panther until they made Civil War and Black Panther, and then I decided he was my new favourite marvel hero. Wait to see what they do with the movie version of her before casting judgement, because if there's one thing these guys know, it's how to make comic book heroes resonate with modern audiences. Even ones that really, really shouldn't work.
On May 09 2018 18:39 Pandemona wrote:Also for me the "killed off" the wrong heroes as well, should have been different set.
Actually, I would have agreed with this until I seriously thought about it.
Going in, everyone expected the following deaths, due to contractual issues (i.e. they're running out and the actors have indicated they're ready to move on): Thor, Captain America, Iron Man.
However if you think about it, the second part of the movie makes more sense as an end to the circle, the original avengers (plus Captain Marvel, the successor and the studios' seeming chosen new torch-bearer) going out to save the world one last time, without all the extra baggage that the cinematic universe has built up over the years, for good and bad. A real send off to the actors who made all of this possible, a last hurrah in-universe and out for the six who made the impossible, possible.
Really, this is why the Cinematic Universe has worked so well. The people with the reins know what they're doing, and we usually don't know what we want until they've shown us they knew already and were planning it years ago (a couple of missteps notwithstanding).
On May 09 2018 18:39 Pandemona wrote:Also i don't want Captain Marvel saving the universe eurgh!!!!!!!
Please, tell us how you really feel.
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I actualy liked Infinity War. Mostly because of the ending. I was afraid Thor will beat Thanos with his WTFAxe and that would leave this movies as just meh, another supercomic movie. With this ending is actually decent. And Yeah i know they will ressurect them all or whatever but i dont have to watch that movie.
I am not a comic guy and i watch all movies in MCU as just that, as movies. I dont know comics and i dont compare what is happening in movies to comics. And from that point o view its actually one of the best MCU movies.
As to dying scenes i am of the opinion they were ok, when spidey was dying i was actually thinking "wtf why is this taking so long, be gone already". On the more funnier note every one in theater was so silent during that scene and i just wanted to clap and scream "GO THANOS".
Also i liked how Thanos dispatched Hulk i think with increasing numbers of stones every fight should be increasingly shorter and more brutal. Cap should be broken like weed and Thors Axe should just bounce off --> Wtf is part of one Neutron Star compared to power of the universe? Nothing.
And its good Cap is alive, now someone can go to him and say "You know You could have sided with Vision and end this before it even began but You chose to protect Your values. Now Vision and half Universe is dead but You still have values intact so i guess it is ok".
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