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By strategic zoom, I mean what Supreme Commander has.You can fluently zoom out to see an overview of the whole map in a second. No zoom levels, no set camera distance.
If you're too far out to pick units they're displayed as symbols of their type so you can still select them and see what's where.
If your only comments are "Supreme Commander sux" or "This is Starcraft, everything done in other games must be wrong", get out.
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On July 22 2010 21:00 Zaru wrote: If your only comments are "Supreme Commander sux" or "This is Starcraft, everything done in other games must be wrong", get out. You put zero effort in your op and expect us to put effort in our comments?
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I didn't play to Supreme Commander. Are you talking about some kind of "bigger mini map" activable with a key? I don't see any problem with it.
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This is Starcraft, everything done in other games must be wrong
/out
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He means you could zoom out to see the whole map and see units move there in real time. Dont know how that would feel in game like sc2 but right now I don't see an need for it.
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if it was available, i'd probably never use it anyway. if you want an overview you have the minimap. if you want to control units you'd zoom in anyway
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Maps in SC isn't large enough for you to need this strategic zoom like supreme commander. Minimap is enough.
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It's not like it wouldn't work but it'd probably end up in symbol wars.
Would also lessen the skill involved in well moving fluently between locations, by usage of hotkeys and such as well as minimap awareness and such.
ps: This is Starcraft, everything done in other games must be wrong
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I've actually thought about this before. I think that at least a small camera distance change could be justified as in my personal opinion the camera is a bit too close to the ground, too "zoomed in" if you will. I still think there should be a max distance though, otherwise people might find ways to exploit it too much...
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What I like about starcraft is the simplicity of the UI. Judging by what's been done with the map editor already, clearly there's nothing stopping Blizzard from adding a view mode like this or a freely-rotating camera like in Supreme Commander. However, I think adding extra view modes would needlessly complicate the game.
One of the signs of a good player (and one thing I am still working on) is constantly checking the minimap to keep track of your units and signs of enemy movement. So one can argue that the option to quickly scan the map for units is already in the game.
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It wouldn't work at all, the game would have to be completely revamped for zoom to be effective, you wouldn't be able to do any sort of micro tasks from zoomed out, so you'd either have to stay zoomed in or somehow hotkey toggle between micro and macro views really fast, which would be pretty nauseating and I'm not sure even functional. In SC2 a good player should CONSTANTLY be doing micro tasks which are basically nonexistant in supcom.
On July 22 2010 21:10 Grebliv wrote: It's not like it wouldn't work but it'd probably end up in symbol wars.
It would certainly not end up as symbol wars, you can try to play this way in Sc right now, just macro up a force and A-move it at your opponent, then do it again...its a good way to train macro but you will fail hardcore vs a decent player.
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On July 22 2010 21:00 Zaru wrote: By strategic zoom, I mean what Supreme Commander has.You can fluently zoom out to see an overview of the whole map in a second. No zoom levels, no set camera distance.
If you're too far out to pick units they're displayed as symbols of their type so you can still select them and see what's where.
If your only comments are "Supreme Commander sux" or "This is Starcraft, everything done in other games must be wrong", get out. Blizzard actually addressed this in an interview saying: 1) Limited camera = More playable (FPS) for many people, no advantages for people who can do this 2) Design choice. Time / Awareness is as much resource as minerals and gas.
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On July 22 2010 21:08 Win.win wrote: if it was available, i'd probably never use it anyway. if you want an overview you have the minimap. if you want to control units you'd zoom in anyway
I'm guessing what he means is to see "bigger battles", I hear commentators all the time saying "I wish I could zoom out to see this battle a little better" etc.. etc..
Would be nifty in 2's,3's,4's where bigger battles happen
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On July 22 2010 21:15 Merikh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 21:08 Win.win wrote: if it was available, i'd probably never use it anyway. if you want an overview you have the minimap. if you want to control units you'd zoom in anyway I'm guessing what he means is to see "bigger battles", I hear commentators all the time saying "I wish I could zoom out to see this battle a little better" etc.. etc.. Would be nifty in 2's,3's,4's where bigger battles happen
It would be great for commentators, of very limited use to good players.
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On July 22 2010 21:16 sob3k wrote: It would be great for commentators, of very limited use to good players. I have to agree with this.
Due to lack of radar, the information on the "whole" map is very limited in this game anyway, fog of war plays a way bigger role.
It'd be interesting for observers and replay watchers though. It's probably damn easy to integrate, in fact a mapper could add such buttons in minutes.
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Like in starcraft I i think that the screen is simply to small ... I would like to have the ability to zoom out a bit further, there is no reason to see only such a small fraction and to constantly scroll around or click on that pixel map. It would increase the overview and not act as horse blinders :S ^^
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It's also a stylistic choice in how the game is played.
Supreme Commander is "strategy oriented" on a larger scale of warfare with !@#$ing huge maps. I don't think the feeling of the of the smart zoom that much myself but it wouldn't fit in SC II.
It would just change the style too drastically. Having to move around the map is part of the high skill level cap. With the low cap of 200 food, managing all of it in your normal perspective is how the game was played and is what differentiates this game from Supreme Commander so much--you're not distanced at all, you're not waging wars with 3 bazillion ships, weird polygonal walker robots and trillions of tiny ships flying everyfuckingwhere.
And this is Starcraft, everything done in other games must be wrong.
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I don't think starcraft is a large enough game for this to be effective in. I could maybe justify something like the tactical map in company of heroes, but its not like your queueing up point captures all game like you would in coh.
one of the best things about starcraft is its simplicity, i dont see any reason to add this sort of thing without a major gameplay reason. the zoom thing works in sup com because the game is built around it, sc is different.
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Units in starcraft are more valuable so they require micro, for which you need to be zoomed in, making strategic view useless 99% of the time. Supply cap in SupCom is about 500 IIRC, and all units cost 1 supply, so obviously for both performance and strategic issues u need to be zoomed out and individual units are even less valuable than in SC.
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For a game that is geared on esports it is perfectly sensible to set a level playing field on a kind of close zoom, because you will need better hardware to cope with a zoom that could go longer out. Low hardware requirements was instrumental in making counterstrike so successfull for esports.
I love blizzard for making the game so that you don't need a very new computer to play it.
Also, micro is important enough in this game that you need to be very close to the action.
I would love to see free zoom in replays though.
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