Copenhagen Games StarCraft 2 - Page 204
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
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jester-
Canada547 Posts
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Steamroller
Finland756 Posts
On April 24 2011 07:24 cheesemaster wrote: agreed, MC made some wierd decisions that didnt seem very typical of him, he also was playing around with some wierd builds instead of going for what he knows. He defenetly should have put a 6 gate push or 2 in there, thorzains builds prepare him really well for the late mid game to late game, a push coming in at the early mid game would have given him lots of trouble i think. Still Kas didn't play his A game today, would of been tough for MC otherwise. | ||
PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
On April 24 2011 07:21 dragoonier wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well Mc had a bit of an off day against Thorzain, not in micro but decision making. I don't know why he never did his 6gate sentry heavy push. I pretty sure Thorzain would have had a very tough time against with his fast upgrades. You can see how effective it is against Kas. And I didn't see any big mistakes by kas in that game. Well Mc had a bit of an off day against Thorzain, not in micro but decision making. I don't know why he never did his 6gate sentry heavy push. I pretty sure Thorzain would have had a very tough time against with his fast upgrades. You can see how effective it is against Kas. And I didn't see any big mistakes by kas in that game. TSL discussion + Show Spoiler + I don't think MC really had an 'off' day, Thorzain had ample time to prepare custom builds for MC, and he showed the same kind of really planned out methodical play that he also laid out for Fruitdealer and Tyler. I think this is the best setting for Thorzain as he seems to really shine when he gets the opportunity to study his opponent. I think MC was a fairly late addition to the roster and Kas wouldn't know for sure that he'd meet up in the finals against him and really stuck to his basic MMM with drops play. That being said, I also don't really know why MC didn't just try and force a 6gate push to eek out another win, unless he was a bit weary of being called cheesy by foreigners again after dreamhack. | ||
dtz
5834 Posts
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Flowne
Netherlands71 Posts
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
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ScaringKids
Portugal819 Posts
Big Props to Khaldor for doing such a great job, really enjoyable. Grubby i believe. | ||
omegan
76 Posts
On April 24 2011 07:24 cheesemaster wrote: agreed, MC made some wierd decisions that didnt seem very typical of him, he also was playing around with some wierd builds instead of going for what he knows. He defenetly should have put a 6 gate push or 2 in there, thorzains builds prepare him really well for the late mid game to late game, a push coming in at the early mid game would have given him lots of trouble i think. same, MC should sticks to what he's best at, not that he's not good with late games, but his 2 base sentry push is really powerful. | ||
Zinthar
United States394 Posts
On April 24 2011 06:52 MajorityofOne wrote: The "MC can't macro" myth= + Show Spoiler + was thoroughly refuted in MC-ThorZain game 4 I have to COMPLETELY disagree with you there... + Show Spoiler + ThorZain tore apart MC's army and took a huge supply lead during the battle where he nailed every EMP and took out MC's main army. Then he let MC back into the game by dropping MC's main and losing the rest of his army and, more importantly, a bunch of medivacs. That gave MC time to warp-in more HT's and get their energy back up before the next major engagement. If ThorZain had instead reinforced his army that survived the battle and taken out MC's last mining base rather than the main (in which he only took out about 2 pylons and temporarily unpowered 2 of the 12 wg's), then ThorZain probably wins that game. Also, in Game 5 MC scouted exactly what Thorzain was doing and utterly failed to counter it. He could have made VR's instead of phoenix from his stargate, which would have fared much better in that final battle. MC's macro game isn't bad, but he's a MUCH better player when the game is simple and there's not too much to focus his micromanagement on. In the GSL, Polt picked him apart in their second match by dropping him while attacking his front, and MC lost much more than a Code S Protoss should have in those exchanges. I think there's a good case to be made that guys like Trickster, San, & WhiteRa play the Protoss end-game (which necessarily requires better macro) better than MC. | ||
MechKing
United States3004 Posts
Also, very nice by grubby as well, playing 2nd is really big for him after only playing SC2 seriously for a few months. | ||
JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On April 24 2011 08:06 Zinthar wrote: I have to COMPLETELY disagree with you there... + Show Spoiler + ThorZain tore apart MC's army and took a huge supply lead during the battle where he nailed every EMP and took out MC's main army. Then he let MC back into the game by dropping MC's main and losing the rest of his army and, more importantly, a bunch of medivacs. That gave MC time to warp-in more HT's and get their energy back up before the next major engagement. If ThorZain had instead reinforced his army that survived the battle and taken out MC's last mining base rather than the main (in which he only took out about 2 pylons and temporarily unpowered 2 of the 12 wg's), then ThorZain probably wins that game. Also, in Game 5 MC scouted exactly what Thorzain was doing and utterly failed to counter it. He could have made VR's instead of phoenix from his stargate, which would have fared much better in that final battle. MC's macro game isn't bad, but he's a MUCH better player when the game is simple and there's not too much to focus his micromanagement on. In the GSL, Polt picked him apart in their second match by dropping him while attacking his front, and MC lost much more than a Code S Protoss should have in those exchanges. I think there's a good case to be made that guys like Trickster, San, & WhiteRa play the Protoss end-game (which necessarily requires better macro) better than MC. + Show Spoiler + Thorzain tore apart MC's army because of upgrades and EMP, not because of better macro. The fact that MC had a huge supply lead before that fight shows that MC's macro had been superior up to that point. He did not "let MC back into the game" with that drop, it was the fact that MC's army comp was simply better and he was up on bases the entire game. People think MC can't macro because his 2base timings and his early game is so strong. MC often has very good timings on when to take new expos. His money rarely gets very high (compared to Adel) and he makes good transitions. Fact is if in the first two games MC had even one forge in the early game chronoing upgrades both games he would've won. It all came down to the upgrades in those games, not because he failed to macro or anything. | ||
eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
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Fenrisulf
United States325 Posts
On April 24 2011 08:06 Zinthar wrote: I have to COMPLETELY disagree with you there... + Show Spoiler + ThorZain tore apart MC's army and took a huge supply lead during the battle where he nailed every EMP and took out MC's main army. Then he let MC back into the game by dropping MC's main and losing the rest of his army and, more importantly, a bunch of medivacs. That gave MC time to warp-in more HT's and get their energy back up before the next major engagement. If ThorZain had instead reinforced his army that survived the battle and taken out MC's last mining base rather than the main (in which he only took out about 2 pylons and temporarily unpowered 2 of the 12 wg's), then ThorZain probably wins that game. Also, in Game 5 MC scouted exactly what Thorzain was doing and utterly failed to counter it. He could have made VR's instead of phoenix from his stargate, which would have fared much better in that final battle. MC's macro game isn't bad, but he's a MUCH better player when the game is simple and there's not too much to focus his micromanagement on. In the GSL, Polt picked him apart in their second match by dropping him while attacking his front, and MC lost much more than a Code S Protoss should have in those exchanges. I think there's a good case to be made that guys like Trickster, San, & WhiteRa play the Protoss end-game (which necessarily requires better macro) better than MC. + Show Spoiler + ThorZain only got off that huge EMP on the immortals due to MC not having an observer there. Yes, at that point ThorZain made the wrong decision and as a result lost a lead that he had just gained, but before that MC had the lead for quite a bit, even maybe enough to end the game after the first engagement with 6 immortals. Its easy to say, "at this point MC could have lost the game" but there were also many points where ThorZain could have lost the game (and he ultimately did). Both players made some mistakes. However, as for the case of MC's macro, he stayed in the early game by pure force of having more units/money than ThorZain. Despite being behind in upgrades and not having great tech, MC fought off ThorZain's early pushes and almost constantly stayed ahead in supply. As far as game 5 goes, it was just an incorrect response to ThorZain's BO and not indicative of macro skills. As for Polt, MC just played poorly in both games, pretty much losing the the first 6 minutes both games, the drops were good but inconsequential, at that point MC was already so far behind there was no way to defend the 2 pronged attack by polt. | ||
ZuRk
Denmark8 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
Grantiere
United States129 Posts
On April 24 2011 06:08 iNcontroL wrote: Protoss is doing great but saying grubby > ret BECAUSE he plays protoss is stupid... ret is far and away the better player at this time and would ALWAYS win a bo5 vs grubby atm Hmm... you casted the Ret v. MC NASL series, didn't you? Hmm... | ||
ZuRk
Denmark8 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Holding up my "high quality" banner! | ||
caster0123
324 Posts
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SETT TV
78 Posts
You can check the interview from SETT.fi. | ||
tdt
United States3179 Posts
On April 24 2011 07:42 omegan wrote: same, MC should sticks to what he's best at, not that he's not good with late games, but his 2 base sentry push is really powerful. I've never seen MC lose a late game. What you speak of carries a lot of risk especially vs terran who as we saw MKP come back and stomp him for fails. | ||
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