In the meantime, I don't want to get modkilled, so I'm voting for myself.
#vote tnkted
I apologize everyone, but I'll be active tomorrow I promise!
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
tnkted
United States1359 Posts
In the meantime, I don't want to get modkilled, so I'm voting for myself. #vote tnkted I apologize everyone, but I'll be active tomorrow I promise! | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + No lie, its gonna be cool. | ||
Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 18 2011 03:44 Ace wrote: You've got 30+ pages of discussions on plans, tons of accusations, and votes. What more do you need? Stop this "lets get more information" bullshit. You've got enough. The only people I've "pestered" are you and Incognito because both of you are bsing. Who else have I pestered? Show me my posts where I haven't contributed while ignoring all the discussion I've generated. You say I haven't been helping to get any information? Show me what you've gathered then. And don't give me some bullshit "this guy is scum because I can see through his posts" bs. That post Caller made against you was a decent example of how to break down what's going on. Notice he didn't come back 5 minutes later with another accusation? So show and prove hombre. You won't have the chance to post on Day 2. I don't want there to be understandings as that leads to chaos, which benefits mafia, so let me be clear. This is how I play town. Go look at XXXVIII. Look at XXXVI. I'm not that great at picking up on small scum tells, and I know this. I can't do very much with limited information, so it is vital for my scum hunting for me to get as much information as possible. Sorry I'm not as good as the pro's, but I'm not going to let that stop me from trying my best. I don't think that what I have done has hurt the town, and I KNOW that it has helped me. Am I wrong? I admit that I was frustrated with your play earlier, and after looking back at your play, you do contribute some to the discussion, but not as much as I would like. You're not as bad as most people so I'll leave it be, but so you know, these are the types of posts that really frustrate me: + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2011 10:12 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On May 14 2011 10:06 GMarshal wrote: On May 14 2011 10:05 Ace wrote: here we go again. Assigning roles before people pick. Disaster incoming. Where exactly does this cause "disaster" to me it looks like it causes accountability for anti-town roles and only for anti-town roles. Can you explain why its a bad idea? I'd really love to hear your input on this. accountability? lol did you read the last 3 PYP games? This exchange with Gmarshal. You use deconstructive criticism to bash his plan. Regardless of whether it was a good/bad plan, it is in the town's best interest to create a positive environment, and the way you go about refuting his plan is doing the exact opposite. This is evidenced later by Gmarshal stating that this was one of the reasons why he stopped posting. Even if he's bs'ing about that, you gave him something to hide behind. On May 14 2011 12:07 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On May 14 2011 10:36 GMarshal wrote: On May 14 2011 10:25 Ace wrote: On May 14 2011 10:17 GMarshal wrote: On May 14 2011 10:12 Ace wrote: On May 14 2011 10:06 GMarshal wrote: On May 14 2011 10:05 Ace wrote: here we go again. Assigning roles before people pick. Disaster incoming. Where exactly does this cause "disaster" to me it looks like it causes accountability for anti-town roles and only for anti-town roles. Can you explain why its a bad idea? I'd really love to hear your input on this. accountability? lol did you read the last 3 PYP games? Yes, yes I did, I fail to see your point, if we know who has the PoD and we go into a double night then we vigi shoot him right off the bat, or lynch him if that isn't an option... Same with the other roles, assuming the plan is actually followed where is the flaw? And if its not followed what do you propose? Everyone picks whatever they want? I feel like thats going to end with the mafia holding enough powerful roles to roll over us by denying lynches/converting people. 1.) Can't know if your "assigned" roles went to the right person. 2.) Won't know if the role went to town or mafia For the chance of tying a few people to roles and not alignment you'll be giving Scum information on where the roles went. Lets not forget that unlike any other PYP game the amount of killing roles in this game are pretty high. 1.) *if* we agree to follow the plan then we will, because if they are town they will pick them, in the interest of benefiting the town, and if they are scum they don't want to be caught at a lie. And we'll be able to tell if the power was picked earlier since the person picking it will get vanilla. However I agree that this might be a weakness of the plan, is there any way to remedy it? 2.) It wont matter, if they are town they will never use the role, if they are mafia we will know if it is used, and will be able to kill them for it, thats the reason for assigning the activated anti-town roles to these players, rather than passive anti-town roles, its *really* easy to tell if they've been used. On these people being killed by the mafia, then those anti-town roles are out of the game, rather than power roles, I dont see the issue with them being focused down. I can't say I'm comfortable with letting townies pick whatever they want, I feel like thats going to lead to the mafia snagging powerful roles and the town overlapping too much in the role selection. Still this plan cannot work if the people in those positions don't agree to it, so we should be in agreement before the draft order comes out. I fell asleep reading this More of this. That's not helpful at all. On May 14 2011 12:35 Ace wrote: *nods in agreement with bum's post* I'm not doing any work though. I feel like relaxing this game. This is what your attitude has felt like most of the game. Now, what have I gained from my pressure? Honestly? Not a lot. Node dissapeared, but no one seemed to mind that three people fingered him without much to go on. Node's reaction seems scummy to me, but the fact that no one cared (other than you) makes me think that he's just bored town. When I fingered Mr.Wiggles, many more people started getting upset. This makes me think that Mr.Wiggles is scum, more than his reaction which I wasn't able to read. The most beneficial thing that I have done was get lost of people upset about my fingering, because many people posted opinions, and gave information about how they think, which will be useful later as we can cross-reference what people are saying then, with what they said now. @Node: The way I read ace's post was that we should stop posting or feeling around for information until the lynch. What I was suggesting was that we, as a collective, start posting to apply pressure to those who are in the spotlight. Out of curiosity, Ace, would you be shooting me because you think I'm mafia, or because you're just annoyed? If you think I'm mafia, would you mind bringing up a case? (Other than "he's bs'ing") | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. I'm probably going to vote incognito, Ace makes the most sense to me. Got an hour before bed to see if anything changes. | ||
Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
Whos got the good role foolishness? who are we killing that isnt useless. People lynch useful people and its like "oh why you do that he so townie" and then we lynch nobodies and its like "oh why him obvious townie" Screw it all chaoser is scum. Im leaving my vote on and if you want to lynch scum you'll help me. He's not posting like hes blue because its PYPInsane; you dont get to be able to have that excuse. He's scum. I'd love to analyze him but all his scummy posts are discussing what he can do with his scumbuddies to win the game in one night. | ||
Chezinu
United States7392 Posts
On May 18 2011 02:56 Ace wrote: I don't know if you're on LSD and just reading whats not there but not once did I suggest playing passive, "sitting back" or "relaxing". I said we've got too much finger pointing and no new information is going to come out of all of that. I also didn't say we should rely on blues to win the game for us because - guess what - I was the one who started beating that into everyone's heads around here years ago. Wouldn't it be silly for me to say that now? But thats just more of you digging a hole for yourself. Keep talking. It's the last day you'll have the chance to. On May 14 2011 12:35 Ace wrote: *nods in agreement with bum's post* I'm not doing any work though. I feel like relaxing this game. You kind of did suggest it if you someone infers that you follow your feelings. On May 14 2011 12:43 chaoser wrote: you feel like relaxing every game ace | ||
Chezinu
United States7392 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:02 bumatlarge wrote: Woah chez I read those games again, you have to PM me to tell me how to properly play like your mad right this instance. Whos got the good role foolishness? who are we killing that isnt useless. People lynch useful people and its like "oh why you do that he so townie" and then we lynch nobodies and its like "oh why him obvious townie" Screw it all chaoser is scum. Im leaving my vote on and if you want to lynch scum you'll help me. He's not posting like hes blue because its PYPInsane; you dont get to be able to have that excuse. He's scum. I'd love to analyze him but all his scummy posts are discussing what he can do with his scumbuddies to win the game in one night. You need to invite me to your treehouse first. | ||
bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:07 Chezinu wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2011 07:02 bumatlarge wrote: Woah chez I read those games again, you have to PM me to tell me how to properly play like your mad right this instance. Whos got the good role foolishness? who are we killing that isnt useless. People lynch useful people and its like "oh why you do that he so townie" and then we lynch nobodies and its like "oh why him obvious townie" Screw it all chaoser is scum. Im leaving my vote on and if you want to lynch scum you'll help me. He's not posting like hes blue because its PYPInsane; you dont get to be able to have that excuse. He's scum. I'd love to analyze him but all his scummy posts are discussing what he can do with his scumbuddies to win the game in one night. You need to invite me to your treehouse first. + Show Spoiler + Back to business, Chez you really think node is scum? | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:30 Barundar wrote: tnkted you can't vote for yourself, if you want to placehold you have to do it on someone else :/ Show nested quote + 4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. I'm probably going to vote incognito, Ace makes the most sense to me. Got an hour before bed to see if anything changes. whoa holy- I apologize Eiii, it appears you read the rules better than I. On May 18 2011 07:02 bumatlarge wrote: Woah chez I read those games again, you have to PM me to tell me how to properly play like your mad right this instance. mfw PMs | ||
Chezinu
United States7392 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:13 bumatlarge wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2011 07:07 Chezinu wrote: On May 18 2011 07:02 bumatlarge wrote: Woah chez I read those games again, you have to PM me to tell me how to properly play like your mad right this instance. Whos got the good role foolishness? who are we killing that isnt useless. People lynch useful people and its like "oh why you do that he so townie" and then we lynch nobodies and its like "oh why him obvious townie" Screw it all chaoser is scum. Im leaving my vote on and if you want to lynch scum you'll help me. He's not posting like hes blue because its PYPInsane; you dont get to be able to have that excuse. He's scum. I'd love to analyze him but all his scummy posts are discussing what he can do with his scumbuddies to win the game in one night. You need to invite me to your treehouse first. + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zTtwXQ5PJM Back to business, Chez you really think node is scum? It had to be minecraft.. you know me too well.. I'm not really that suspicious of Node -- I just lack any other candidate. The only read I have right now is that flamewheel is townie because he prides himself that he has never been mafia and therefore would never be mafia unless he is on a smurf account. | ||
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:49 Foolishness wrote: Seems to me deconduo is an obvious green (or village idiot). Could you elaborate what makes you think he is obvious green? VI perhaps, but what makes you think he green? He wants us to lynch him because "he thinks he is the mole". He feels as a vanilla, it would be most useful if he were lynched. He has provided no attempt to help town. Are you guys inferring deconduo is the type of person that would rage quit the game because he didn't get the role he wanted? | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:13 bumatlarge wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2011 07:07 Chezinu wrote: On May 18 2011 07:02 bumatlarge wrote: Woah chez I read those games again, you have to PM me to tell me how to properly play like your mad right this instance. Whos got the good role foolishness? who are we killing that isnt useless. People lynch useful people and its like "oh why you do that he so townie" and then we lynch nobodies and its like "oh why him obvious townie" Screw it all chaoser is scum. Im leaving my vote on and if you want to lynch scum you'll help me. He's not posting like hes blue because its PYPInsane; you dont get to be able to have that excuse. He's scum. I'd love to analyze him but all his scummy posts are discussing what he can do with his scumbuddies to win the game in one night. You need to invite me to your treehouse first. + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zTtwXQ5PJM Back to business, Chez you really think node is scum? Woah...that is epic. Incognito is probably the best vote for today. Mass finger pointing, trying to contribute but not contribute, etc. etc. Sticking my vote on him. ##vote: Incognito | ||
Node
United States2159 Posts
On May 18 2011 05:57 Chezinu wrote: Fine, Node if you really want to understand me, here are two short games you can read: Mini-mafia 2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105463 Mini-mafia 3 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110026 Thank you sir. I can only look forward to whatever antics you'll no doubt get up to. On May 18 2011 07:02 bumatlarge wrote: Screw it all chaoser is scum. Im leaving my vote on and if you want to lynch scum you'll help me. He's not posting like hes blue because its PYPInsane; you dont get to be able to have that excuse. He's scum. I'd love to analyze him but all his scummy posts are discussing what he can do with his scumbuddies to win the game in one night. Actually, I agree with this. Look at how chaoser played XXXIX. From the very beginning, he was decisive, he pegged mafia, and wasn't at all afraid to put everything out there. In this game, he looks cautious and withdrawn, which is the opposite of the chaoser I know and love. Even if he didn't have time to make extensive analysis, he'd at least be willing to give us his thoughts. I don't even think he's taken a solid stance on anything this game. Just a weak attempt at "applying pressure" on GMarshal. ##Vote chaoser | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
I have problems explaining his actual scum hunting so far. Loads of finger pointing and weak reasons for votes. For an example his vote on chaoser: Bumatlarge is also on the right track. Chaoser is a good vote too. Actually, wait, a better vote than Kurumi. I'll put Chaoser as 85% mafia. ##Vote Chaoser Why does he think chaoser is 85 % mafia? Thats very high degree of certainty day 1. Since then he doesn't mention chaoser or try to convince others of his guilt. Same with Kurumi and GMarshal: + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 14:20 Incognito wrote: Flamewheel please nuke GMarshal. Thanks. ##Vote Kurumi My biggest issue with voting incognito is 1) He is a vet, so if town it would be a huge loss. 2) He provides pro town ideas, like the listchecker + vote rigger idea, as well as info on roles. His play before the day post was still riddled with random accusations, but his role ideas was good. He claims he is playing weird because he doesn't have time to play a proper day 1, but I don't buy that. He has been reasonably active in the thread, and he is obviously reading it. I guess my question to Foolishness and Ace is, how do you explain his contributions with regards to roles if he is mafia? | ||
bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Just to be clear Ace, you think our best lynch target for today is Incognito? As far as Barundar, let me clarify that i'm not saying Barundar has dropped serious scumtells, or that any single post points to scum. But rather that all his posts, taken as a whole, do not point to a pro-town player. Why Barundar is scum in four posts: + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2011 21:00 Barundar wrote: Some interesting thoughts already, I’ll see if I can add anything. Regarding the setup: We know there is 6 mafia total, including mules. If we assume there is at least 1 mule, and probably 2, this leaves a mafia team consisting of 4 to 5 members. This put certain limits to the options for mafia with regards to strategy. One possible mafia strategy is to pick an abundance of killing roles and carpet bomb the town in the hope of finishing the game fast, before detectives can get checks in and town can get reads on people. I don’t think mafia will choose this road, they only have 4-5 members, they don’t know the identity of mules, the plan is highly volatile because of medic saves + veterans, and lack of godfather/framer leaves them vulnerable. On the other hand, 1 KP is very little in a 25 player game. With this many detective roles, they can’t afford a long drawn out game. It’s in my opinion safe to assume that mafia will aim for at least 1 extra KP role a la CPR doc. Hence it might be worth it to deny them the strongest KP roles, but there is absolutely no reason to assign every KP role. There is quite frankly stronger mafia alternatives. Lastly I’d like to point to the fact that in every PYP so far the traitor has been picked by a townie. It’s safe to assume someone will be a jackass in this game as well. So we are really looking at a 7 person mafia team. Regarding number picking, clashes was a great way to divide people in to groups in PYP3. While the randomness usually guarantee mafia a top spot, since they can blanket pick a range of numbers without clashing with each others, it also split the players into small groups with 1 mafia in each nicely (no one picks 4, everyone picks 7, true story). @radfield I will follow a plan assigning thief + the very most powerful mafia roles to the top spots, but in PYP3 there was a strong resistance towards following any sort of plan. I disagree with some of your picks on the lynch list, which I think can be fairly ok for a townie, but that is specifics. I’ll hopefully be able to give better feedback once I’ve thought some more of it. This is the first post that rang some bells. Mainly because it's a very long post, but doesn't say a particularly large amount. No conclusions are drawn, generally he is very agreeable(which is good) and talks about generalities mostly. Mind you, this is the beginning of the game, so there isn't a ton to talk about. The most telling part of this post is that he promises to 'give better feedback' in the future, but never does. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 01:09 Barundar wrote: My thoughts so far today: @Incognito votes, I don't see what he is doing as more than putting pressure on people, which is just one way to gather information. I would like some more reasons for voting Kurumi though, as Kurumi got himself mislynched day 1, when put under pressure in the current standard game. On the other hand he writes in a way so I can only make sense of half of it. @GM I can't talk for others, but I noticed that you suggested a plan that involves #6 to pick thief, but when you end up #6 yourself, and people assign you thief, you respond with: Show nested quote + My mayor issue with this "select roles for spots" deal now is the fact that the draft order is already out, meaning that the mafia is free to propose whatever they wish, and land whatever juicy roles they want. I find it curious that when your own proposition corresponds to the one you get offered, you shoot it down as mafia influenced. @OriginalName I can't help but notice you stay silent through the first 48 hours when we discuss plans, but when the planning phase is over, you go out and question if the planning is worth it in your first substantial post. And in the same post you manage to call control plans both pro town and anti town. This post starts the general trend: Recapping. Sure looks like he's saying alot, but there is very little substance here. He's wishy washy about Kurumi, soft-defending him then soft-attacking him. He pokes at GMarshall for a niggly detail, despite the fact that GM explained his postition just fine. Finishes with a sensible attack on OriginalName, who at this point is an extremely easy target to pick on. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 16:11 Barundar wrote: Seems like you have all forgotten about the copy cat. With our first lynch we have an excellent opportunity to let the town decide what role the copy cat gets. If we lynch a vanilla, like deconduo claims to be, we effectively let scum decide who they want the copy cat to be, an easy choice is to just shoot into the top and grap a free role. Now I have no idea if copy cat went to mafia this time, but it certainly did last time I played. For the same reason I would be against lynching Scamp. He is number 2 pick, he is bound to have a sick role. If we give that role to the copy cat, we just end up with a sick role in an unknown position. I agree scamp is suspicious, but we will have to deal with him another day. Third, it helps us absolutely nothing to have ~10 suspects day 1. We won't get any information from being spread out like this, list checkers won't have anything to work with, and no one feels pressured. Not to mention with a multitude of targets, scum is going to pick who is going to get lynched, simple as. We don't need new suspects with every post, sorry to use you as an example GM, but you post you will have a look at KillerSOS, and 10 minutes later you have a finished analysis dubbing him scum. Next on your list is Dreamflower. Do you expect to nail the whole freaking team half a day into day 1? Have a look at the voting thread. So far we have: + Show Spoiler [current votes] + Incognito: 3 Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness deconduo: 3 kitaman27, Node, Eiii chaoser: 2 bumatlarge, incognito cheznu: 1 Fishball GMarshal: 1 chaoser Fishball: 1 kurumi KillerSoS: 1 GMarshal Mr.Wiggles: 1 Kavdragon scamp: 1 deconduo 9 targets in total. 6 people with 1 vote. Now I'm sure all of you have an excellent reason for why exactly your target is scum, but it clearly isn't convincing to the rest of us. So will you please consider joining one of the other targets? I don't want to limit discussion, and if you find someone obvious scum by all means go for it, but the way this is heading we won't get much useful information going into day 2. The three leading targets is incognito, deconduo and chaoser. Of the three I'm the least inclined to vote for deconduo for the reasons stated above. Chaoser has been dropping a bunch of one liners despite claiming to be busy. Yet the votes on incognito are the most convincing, I doubt both Ace and Foolishness would be mafia for balance purposes. I'd like to hear a better reasoning for incognitos votes than "I brought up the vote rigger combo idea, hence I must be town". Lastly I could be convinced to a policy lynch on cheznu. Whatever role he have, I'm sure it would disappoint the Copy Cat. Huge Post. Complete Recap. Very very little substance, and zero risk. Even has a vote count and a policy lynch in there. Yes, spreading out our day 1 votes is bad. This is obvious but worth stating. Let me be clear again, that what he is saying in this post makes sense, but the problem is that it goes nowhere. He encourages town, he offers advice, but he does not get his hands dirty. Read the last paragraph: Recap and conjecture, nothing risky, nothing opinionated, a few polite questions. Add to this a policy lynch on Chezinu.... after 96 hours of playtime it's not time to advocate a policy lynch. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 19:01 Barundar wrote: Well I came back fully expecting a bandwagon on me. I know it's controversial that I'm saying you need to stop bringing in new targets constantly, and actually focus on the ones we have, but really, it serves no purpose. We had all yesterday to throw accusations around, now its time to reconcile. Chances are, some of the targets already brought up are fully legit. Why does everyone think they are smarter than everyone else? flamewheel there is no pressure in just one vote, albeit I admit it made node post. Caller you place a FoS, albeit it might have been justified, I fail to see how you make the jump from pointing a finger of suspicion into placing a vote for him. You are sure he is mafia now or what? Incognito you post that we have a lot of information now, and that we should read over the thread tomorrow. What about we read over the thread now, and actually decide on the targets that has something on them? I don't see the point of just being content with the current situation, that really only favors scum. Last post and we see an outraged townie at his best. "Hey Town! Smarten up and scum hunt" while not attempting to follow his own advice in the least. A note for flame, a note for caller, a note for Incog. No scum hunting, no risks, no opinions. Simply recapping what other people have done and are doing, and not attempting to further the discussion in a measurable way. Four long posts, and very little real substance telling us what Barundar actually thinks. There is good advice here, and some very pro-town points... but no pro-town actions. Do people disagree with this assessment. Is there more to Barundars play than good general advice and pro-town words? What am I missing here? | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:53 bumatlarge wrote: Is 100% a high degree of certainty barundar? I seem to get that a lot. Excuse me? Throwing out a random degree of certainty without any reasoning doesn't seem suspicious to you? | ||
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
What I'm trying to say is: if someone wants to attack you, they're probably not going to be swayed by any counter-arguments you make. So wait to defend yourself until several people are ganging up and questioning you, or until someone makes a serious case against you. What you're doing is cluttering up the thread a bit, and making it harder to focus in. No hard feelings or anything, I just want to slow down your posting a somewhat. | ||
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