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I learned this yesterday and felt just a little bit of disgust. 1) for not knowing something basic that I SHOULD know but also 2) because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
It's a bigger Roach (which is armored) with a special ability.
Implications of losing the "Armored" tag:
It takes 7 Immotal hits to kill a Ravager instead of 3 to kill a Roach It takes 14 Stalker shots to kill a Ravager instead of 12
Marauders and Tanks similarly affected.
I just thought everyone should know, since everyone I told was surprised to hear it. People were building Immortals/Marauders etc. to counter them :/
Please discuss.
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I thought that was the idea. I mean, didnt they advertise it during the beta as a counter to immortals? With its faster attack speed and not being armored and all.
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You still have to use Roach counters because Roaches are usually units tanking for the Ravager, so you can't exactly make an anti-ravager build without Roaches in mind.
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On November 19 2015 23:37 RoomOfMush wrote: I thought that was the idea. I mean, didnt they advertise it during the beta as a counter to immortals? With its faster attack speed and not being armored and all.
Yeah but the problem is it builds from Roaches... so if you build Roach counters he morphs them into Ravagers. Then what?
But anyway, just wanted to inform people because it seemed like most people didn't know. Maybe Zealots are the way to go? I have no idea how to beat Ravagers honestly. People are saying just go straight to mass air.
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After so many changes I thought it stayed armored, so thanks for the information!
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The ravager is really frustrating t.t
It's pretty much the strongest tier 1 (1.5?) unit (with no upgrades) and it's only biological which means IIRC archons are the only unit in the game that deal bonus damage to it.
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i thought everyone knew this? wasn't it a pretty heavily advertised buff?
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On November 19 2015 23:55 Elentos wrote: The ravager is really frustrating t.t
It's pretty much the strongest tier 1 (1.5?) unit (with no upgrades) and it's only biological which means IIRC archons are the only unit in the game that deal bonus damage to it.
What if you're on a 2v2 team and pick one up with graviton beam within range of your ally's spore crawler. Does the Spore do bonus damage?
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Do we really need hardcounter relations? The biggest mistake people do is killing the roaches first so that the 3-6 ravagers behind do horrible damage with their corrosive biles.
Allways kill the ravagers first! Chase after them! I dont say sacrifice your units but whenever you can attack the ravagers, do it! They cost more than roaches (+75gas more) and simple marins/hellions can kill them.
EDIT: People have problems now because of these little details!
For example: When will terrans drop outside of pylons? 1-2 pylons activated wont kill a 1-2 medivac drop if the whole army attacks at once.
These little details make the game seem imbalanced but its just a minor adaptation.
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On November 19 2015 23:55 Elentos wrote: The ravager is really frustrating t.t
It's pretty much the strongest tier 1 (1.5?) unit (with no upgrades) and it's only biological which means IIRC archons are the only unit in the game that deal bonus damage to it. then again, it costs twice as much as a roach (arguably more since it has a much higher gas:mineral ratio in its cost and gas is a more valuable commodity), has less health than a roach, deals less damage than a roach (yes you read that correctly roach has 11.2 dps and ravager has 10) and costs 50% more supply than a roach.
the only saving grace is that it is marginally faster than a roach, has +1 range and has the corrosive bile ability, so lets be honest, statwise the ravager is pretty similar to a roach but costs twice as much, if you are losing to ravagers then you are not losing because of their stats*, you are losing because you are getting hit by corrosive bile.
*because if you are losing to ravagers because of the raw stats on it, then you would be losing even harder to just pure roach spam, even if your composition is entirely immortals, which is the best vs roaches and the worst vs ravagers, pure roach would still beat you harder than pure ravager.
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I didn't know until I saw protoss using oracle and phoenix to kill the ravagers haha
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but hey are not light either, so neither phoenix or oracle has bonus dmg against them
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On November 20 2015 00:34 Cuce wrote: but hey are not light either, so neither phoenix or oracle has bonus dmg against them Ahhh, maybe I was thinking of them as roaches, so it surprised me that an oracle killed them so much faster than it would kill a roach
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At least they lose 25 HP vs the Roach. I think they were buffed so that they would survive vs Tanks. But Zerg has so many answers to Tanks I doubt they need another hard counter. Not to mention you could just split up you Ravegers.
My biggest complaint though is the Raveger timings. If they want to keep Ravegers as a Hatch Tech, at least require a building morph so we can scout the damn timing attack.
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iirc the Ravager was originally armored but they changed it to make it more viable vs rauds and immortals, not saying that's the best call, but I'm fairly certain there are Dayvie blogs on bnet that talk through their decision making on this.
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On November 20 2015 00:47 GinDo wrote: At least they lose 25 HP vs the Roach. I think they were buffed so that they would survive vs Tanks. But Zerg has so many answers to Tanks I doubt they need another hard counter. Not to mention you could just split up you Ravegers.
My biggest complaint though is the Raveger timings. If they want to keep Ravegers as a Hatch Tech, at least require a building morph so we can scout the damn timing attack.
Seriously.
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very good info, thank you op
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The brood lord, baneling, and lurker all change considerably from the units they come from so I don't think the ravager really needs to stay similar to the roach just for consistency's sake. I think the only issue as others have noted, is how quickly and easily the ravager tech is deployable vs how quickly and easily the response is. More ravagers decreases the auto attack fighting power of the zerg army by decreasing the damage density, and decreasing the total health pool. In my mind this increases the effectiveness of melee and/or mobile units against it as they're much harder to engage with the more relied upon skillshot.
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helpfull to knwo but you still need immortals and so , since roach will prob be on the mix
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Ravagers have such poor HP-to-gas (they're like Mutalisks) you should be able to murder them with Marines or anything else.
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